S-FM 191: Decisions - Page 18
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  1. ISO #851

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    This is why you don't vote prematurely at 2v1 LYLO, kids.
    Speaks the kind, charming fellow who was the first to vote ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Orpz View Post
    Why'd you leave out the sun emoji? I think it creates a huge sense of tone that is critical for the interpretation of the chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM Romeo View Post
    Go fuck yourself in the cucho.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed
    Your accent has ruined medieval fantasy films.

  2. ISO #852

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  5. ISO #855

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    OMG which idiot voted early. Karp karp karp karp.
    Yeah cause rereading the game and working it out trying to figure out who was scum + interacting with MZ == six minute day. For sure.

    This game was a team game. No one person was responsible for the loss. Collectively we focused in the wrong place after AIVIONs flip, going for the "easy explanation" instead of actual scum motivation.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  6. ISO #856

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    If only you guys could have seen the sexy case I built on SecondPassing D1.. It was fucking glorious.

    -vote Firebringer

    This nigga is a Ninja
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  7. ISO #857

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    @Toadette

    Not gona lie. Your D1 attitude made me angry. Please chill with the ego a bit
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  8. ISO #858

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  10. ISO #860

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    If anyone is wondering, our "Not Chosen" choice was Frozen Angel.
    Glad about that, so I could night kill her. SHE WAS ONTO ME! (although I am pretty sure most of it was OMGUS).
    lol I knew that the moment she died N1 instead of Banana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

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  14. ISO #864

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    We had a pregame chat, I can link it.
    But after that, I was just talking to calix through skype discussing my thoughts and stuff.
    Me too. I was sold on you being scum after AIVIONs flip and when you 1v1'd me I immediately told her "shit, 99% sure fire is town". I was still going to lynch you out of principle and let you get to L-1 battling with that feeling you were town before I switched trains at last second
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  15. ISO #865

  16. ISO #866

  17. ISO #867

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    yes omgus. and I do beleive its not a scum tell to scum read the one who is scumreading you. why shouldn't I ? when Their scum ?

    I can see the difference of dirting a slot up and pushing it for a read. I usually end up town reading people who pressure me. In your case I knew your dirting my slot up.

  18. ISO #868

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  20. ISO #870

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    I really suck at reading inactive or semi inactive people but I do know how to read intractions. I can claim that with all the result I have as town . My win ratio as town even with correct reads in all of them (beside 1 or 2 in 50 ) is about 45% which is sad.

    I do beleive that I suck at persuading people about my reads.

  21. ISO #871

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    may I ask you why you guys ended up scumreading me after day 1 ?

    It's weird to be scumread by town and killed by scum at same night

    I was trying to understand why people ended up joining Avivion wagon like that and why nobody is even trying to listen to my case against Fire that he just hammered to end the discussion. what about it was "scummy" ?

  22. ISO #872

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Angel View Post
    Told you fire is scum

    It was blant obvious for me at the end of day 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Angel View Post
    yes omgus. and I do beleive its not a scum tell to scum read the one who is scumreading you. why shouldn't I ? when Their scum ?

    I can see the difference of dirting a slot up and pushing it for a read. I usually end up town reading people who pressure me. In your case I knew your dirting my slot up.
    Yeah, but its the way you came to it. You were like "OHH NO FIRE CANT BE SCUMREADING ME, THERE GOES MY ONLY TOWN READ! HE IS 100% SCUM". Like I am not saying I was the most townie person there, but there was legit several posts I could pick out where you were kind of avoiding giving hard thoughts on people. You were giving analysis but it didn't seem very deep and it was like you were avoiding the wagons.

    But I pushed you mostly to distract from the Banana and PoD wagons and distance myself from the mislynches there. I wasn't trying to make you out to be scum.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  23. ISO #873

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Angel View Post
    Told you fire is scum

    It was blant obvious for me at the end of day 1
    Quote Originally Posted by AIVION View Post
    True, there is a lot of other players that really hasn't been doing much this game, I just find Banana's slot pretty suspicious due to her early behavior, it didn't really scream town to me.

    She's still trying to Scum-hunt, however. It may not of been on the current wagons, but it's something that I can view as town. She's one of the only slots doing anything so far this game. I suppose you'd have to give some more in-depth reasonings if you want to paint her slot as scum.
    This was by far the most give away if you analyzed AIVION posts. Like it should have 100% resulted in my lynch to be honet. I think only Banana picked up on it though.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  24. ISO #874

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    Yeah, but its the way you came to it. You were like "OHH NO FIRE CANT BE SCUMREADING ME, THERE GOES MY ONLY TOWN READ! HE IS 100% SCUM". Like I am not saying I was the most townie person there, but there was legit several posts I could pick out where you were kind of avoiding giving hard thoughts on people. You were giving analysis but it didn't seem very deep and it was like you were avoiding the wagons.

    But I pushed you mostly to distract from the Banana and PoD wagons and distance myself from the mislynches there. I wasn't trying to make you out to be scum.
    No I said here goes my last town read. I really was illy about all the slots back then .

    I knew your push on me was not honest and I knew that I was going to die at night becuase I knew there is a scum between you , superjack and secondpassing and I was the only one scumreading you three. Your push was incredibley fishy and fake that I'm really surprised no one else suspected you for that.

    My analyses are very deep. Their just not 100% logical. I don't see players as chess pawnes. I beleive my way of playing is way more accurate than players who just say they gutread people and very more accurate than players who just play by 100% logical analysis.

    Its just really hard to explain why I get those reads as others don't have my pov.
    Last edited by Frozen Angel; April 30th, 2016 at 10:41 PM.

  25. ISO #875

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Angel View Post
    No I said here goes my last town read. I really was illy about all the slots back then .

    I knew your push on me was not honest and I knew that I was going to die at night becuase I knew there is a scum between you , superjack and secondpassing and I was the only one scumreading you three. Your push was incredibley fishy and fake that I'm really surprised no one else suspected you for that.

    My analyses are very deep. Their just not 100% logical. I don't see players as chess pawnes. I beleive my way of playing is way more accurate than players who just say they gutread people and very more accurate than players who just play by 100% logical analysis.

    Its just really hard to explain why I get those reads as others don't have my pov.
    How did you know you were going to die? I killed you purely for activity reasons Frozen. Not for your reads, even though you did scumread me.

    Not to say you aren't good or anything, but you didn't seem to have solid reads either.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  26. ISO #876

  27. ISO #877

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Angel View Post
    When night started I looked at the player list and I laughed.

    I really felt that I'm going to die.

    beside that I got 100% sure on you being scum when you guys were discussing the reason I died (you said I died for activity reason )
    Lol? like, yeah. I did kill you for that reason. Calix can confirm that too if she wants to, I discussed a lot of my thoughts with her.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  28. ISO #878

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Angel View Post
    may I ask you why you guys ended up scumreading me after day 1 ?

    It's weird to be scumread by town and killed by scum at same night

    I was trying to understand why people ended up joining Avivion wagon like that and why nobody is even trying to listen to my case against Fire that he just hammered to end the discussion. what about it was "scummy" ?
    Same reason I scumread fire directly following the lynch: you both seemed to be ignoring the AIVION wagon as hard as you could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    This was by far the most give away if you analyzed AIVION posts. Like it should have 100% resulted in my lynch to be honet. I think only Banana picked up on it though.
    Yes I did call out this interaction and I should have stuck with it. My mind said you were scum and I went with my gut that said your 1v1 was town. Never go with the gut :/
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  29. ISO #879

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    There is a frog shaped void that needs to be filled I am merely making the universe right again
    LOL!
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    This game went so differently than our pregame chat plans were.
    This is why you shouldn't plan stuff out lol:

    https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/fCLAksenXqS
    Yeah. This kinda went out the window when I couldn't post >.<
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  30. ISO #880

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Yeah cause rereading the game and working it out trying to figure out who was scum + interacting with MZ == six minute day. For sure.

    This game was a team game. No one person was responsible for the loss. Collectively we focused in the wrong place after AIVIONs flip, going for the "easy explanation" instead of actual scum motivation.
    It was a joke lol XD
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  31. ISO #881

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  34. ISO #884

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    im so glad i get to say

    "I told you so"
    If you find scum but fail to convince others to lynch them, you forfeit the right to say that you played well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orpz View Post
    Why'd you leave out the sun emoji? I think it creates a huge sense of tone that is critical for the interpretation of the chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM Romeo View Post
    Go fuck yourself in the cucho.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed
    Your accent has ruined medieval fantasy films.

  35. ISO #885

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  37. ISO #887

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    At least you got the fire briner effect going for you
    It works in non forum games too.
    I shouted last night in a mafia game that a random player was Liaison and that he fucked me the previous night. I was half right, he was Escort and he did roleblock me.

    Who needs investigatives when you have me who can jump to wrong conclusions?
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  38. ISO #888

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    If you find scum but fail to convince others to lynch them, you forfeit the right to say that you played well.
    Agreed -- from the Town perspective, half the game is scumreading and the other half of the game is persuasion. If you fail at the latter, your contributions didn't really do much for the Town and you can't really complain too much, short of extenuating circumstances.

  39. ISO #889

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    It works in non forum games too.
    I shouted last night in a mafia game that a random player was Liaison and that he fucked me the previous night. I was half right, he was Escort and he did roleblock me.

    Who needs investigatives when you have me who can jump to wrong conclusions?
    Well, of course you'd know all about the Escorts, Fire.

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  44. ISO #894

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
    @Helz Apparently I'm a very a scummy player. (I look like scum). Would have loved to see you case on me.
    Honestly, you are extremely squirrely when you play sometimes. If you have a suspicion, push it in clear and concise terms. X is scummy because they are doing Y. This is scummy behavior because Z. Remember that players aren't necessarily going to spend a while interpreting your post. If it's not immediately clear what you're getting at, they will discount you.

    Instead, I feel like many of your posts are some out there philosophical / psychological argument of why someone is scummy that could honestly be made about anyone in the game. You also have a tendency like some others to grasp onto weird syntax points that are less indicative of whether someone is likely scum and more about their typing patterns. Anything that involves highlighting certain words and trying to make an grammar-based argument about how the way in which someone phrased something is probably not going to be received well by most players, unless it's painfully obvious.

    Your playstyle isn't necessarily bad, but the problem is you can raise those philosophical / psychological / syntax arguments against anyone -- i.e. they're easy to use regardless of alignment, so when people see them, they don't know if it's the Secondpassing Town or Secondpassing scum. I.e. it's not clear if you are scumhunting or manipulating people and when in doubt, people will suspect you (since this is a game where you can't trust people).

    Lastly, you have a tendency to shitpost a bit in games with off-topic / irrelevant points. That's fine in moderation, but they should be the exception rather than the rule. Plenty of time to have fun post-game or pre-game, but especially when games are getting clogged up with a lot of posts, it can be viewed as a scumread to be interjecting with off-topic commentary too much. Players who take the game very seriously (many of us), can get aggravated with this and it might reduce our read on you if it seems like you are being disruptive.
    Last edited by DarknessB; May 1st, 2016 at 02:52 PM.

  45. ISO #895

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    Honestly, you are extremely squirrely when you play sometimes. If you have a suspicion, push it in clear and concise terms. X is scummy because they are doing Y. This is scummy behavior because Z. Remember that players aren't necessarily going to spend a while interpreting your post. If it's not immediately clear what you're getting at, they will discount you.

    Instead, I feel like many of your posts are some out there philosophical / psychological argument of why someone is scummy that could honestly be made about anyone in the game. You also have a tendency like some others to grasp onto weird syntax points that are less indicative of whether someone is likely scum and more about their typing patterns. Anything that involves highlighting certain words and trying to make an grammar-based argument about how the way in which someone phrased something is probably not going to be received well by most players, unless it's painfully obvious.

    Your playstyle isn't necessarily bad, but the problem is you can raise those philosophical / psychological / syntax arguments against anyone -- i.e. they're easy to use regardless of alignment, so when people see them, they don't know if it's the Secondpassing Town or Secondpassing scum. I.e. it's not clear if you are scumhunting or manipulating people and when in doubt, people will suspect you (since this is a game where you can't trust people).

    Lastly, you have a tendency to shitpost a bit in games with off-topic / irrelevant points. That's find in moderation, but they should be the exception rather than the rule. Plenty of time to have fun post-game or pre-game, but especially when games are getting clogged up with a lot of posts, it can be viewed as a scumread to be interjecting with off-topic commentary too much. Players who take the game very seriously (many of us), can get aggravated with this and it might reduce our read on you if it seems like you are being disruptive.
    Thanks DarknessB. I'l try to take as much from your post as I can.

    Most of the time when I have a suspicion, it's not already clear and concise in my own mind, and if I waited for it to become clear and concise, I'd have waited too long. I'll definitely try to make my posts more clear and simple though.

    I'm discovering that my playstyle is really really weird. It's been reiterated by other people fairly often, so I'm starting to believe people are unwilling to dig into posts for the motivation of why they say it. Since this is an integral part in how I scum hunt, I'll see if I can augment my reads with the way other people do it and somehow keep this psychological - syntax arguments to myself more often. I'll see if I can learn anything from Sen.

    Sometimes off-topic posts actually serve a purpose, but it seems like people only see it as fluff. My last wish (and even in life) is to be disruptive. I'll try to cut back and exercise self-control.


    Main point: My playstyle is odd to players and therefore hard to understand. I'll definitely be trying something different. Thanks DB

  46. ISO #896

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
    Thanks DarknessB. I'l try to take as much from your post as I can.

    Most of the time when I have a suspicion, it's not already clear and concise in my own mind, and if I waited for it to become clear and concise, I'd have waited too long. I'll definitely try to make my posts more clear and simple though.

    I'm discovering that my playstyle is really really weird. It's been reiterated by other people fairly often, so I'm starting to believe people are unwilling to dig into posts for the motivation of why they say it. Since this is an integral part in how I scum hunt, I'll see if I can augment my reads with the way other people do it and somehow keep this psychological - syntax arguments to myself more often. I'll see if I can learn anything from Sen.

    Sometimes off-topic posts actually serve a purpose, but it seems like people only see it as fluff. My last wish (and even in life) is to be disruptive. I'll try to cut back and exercise self-control.


    Main point: My playstyle is odd to players and therefore hard to understand. I'll definitely be trying something different. Thanks DB
    Thankfully, FM is not the mod (with its rapid speed days), so if it takes you reading over a post a couple of times or waiting like 5 minutes before posting to make sure it's settled in your head, that could be a good plan. I think the stream of consciousness approach can be harmful because when we read the posts, we're thinking "so what's your point?" and that can make us think you're hiding what you're really trying to say. Just because the volume of posting is so much sometimes, I think clear and concise posts are the way to go. This isn't to say "abandon any supporting detail", but we should know what you're getting at pretty quickly for purposes of persuasion.

    I think people are willing to dig into posts, but that has to be in combination with the more conventional means of scumhunting. You can include some syntax and psychology, but at least start with the more conventional argument. Maybe a two part approach to your posts would be more persuasive. For my own play, I've started to include meta arguments only as a secondary point beyond the regular in-game content, just because meta arguments can be very misleading and not helpful in isolation.

    Lastly, re: off-topic, same point as above. If you want to interject some commentary or flavor into your posts, that's fine, but maybe include it along with more substantive content. No one is going to complain if you include a quip at the end of your posts (or the beginning), but I think they will if your entire post is some joke about the game. You also obviously have more latitude depending on what's going on in the game. Obviously, people mess around a little more during RVS or where they are waiting for stuff to happen. It's different when there's a heated discussion and posts are coming it rapidly.

    Different playstyles are a good thing -- it's just smoothing out the edges so that you can be more persuasive to others. As Town, half of the game is scumreading and the other half is persuasion -- and you need both to be successful. I think you do a good job with scumreading sometimes (in terms of instincts), but it's the persuasion part which could use a bit of improvement.
    Last edited by DarknessB; May 1st, 2016 at 03:24 PM.

  47. ISO #897

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    I didn't find @secondpassing scummy at all this game. It seemed SP was being scumread early for taking a confusing stance, but when given the chance to clarify, it was obvious SP was just unsure town. Secondguessing is an appropriate nickname.

    I think you just need to be more articulate with your points, that's it <3
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  48. ISO #898

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    [QUOTE=secondpassing;589993] @Helz Apparently I'm a very a scummy player. (I look like scum). Would have loved to see your case on me.

    Sure. Here is my post..

    [4/23/2016 6:55:10 AM] Craig B: Basically
    [4/23/2016 6:55:15 AM] Craig B: Like
    [4/23/2016 6:55:20 AM] Craig B: Say that you are busy and shit
    [4/23/2016 6:55:27 AM] Craig B: And that you have real life stuffs
    [4/23/2016 6:55:37 AM] Craig B: And then just say you are going to post my notes on SP
    [4/23/2016 6:56:00 AM] Craig B: Keep in mind this shit is fake. But I believe just posting it should guarentee SP's lynch for the end of the day
    [4/23/2016 6:56:08 AM] Craig B: As long as you are able to post is soon enough
    [4/23/2016 6:56:24 AM] Craig B: But just post it verbatum and say its my notes to you
    [4/23/2016 6:56:34 AM] Craig B: I left a few things in there that should appeal to each player in this game
    [4/23/2016 6:56:53 AM] Craig B: #46 Votes Banana
    #48 Votes Frozen
    #49 Votes TDL while saying he reasoned that Superjack would be mafia
    Yeah, Its RVS but this vote flipping is insane. It shows the player is nervous about who he places his vote on and then with the 4th post in a row (third vote in a row) he suggests a player is mafia and votes someone else. This is not town behavior. If he was town this early in the game he would vote the slot that he read as ‘mafia’ with the slightest reasoning. What you can identify from this is the player backtracking on what should be a mindless vote. He is instead putting a lot of thought into who he is voting and how others will read his vote and then soft slips at the 4th post. Town would throw out a vote and think little of it or give a vote with reasoning that creates content. Neither of these things are represented here.

    #53 He reasons into macro lynch train plays staying mindful of who is voted and how that will play out for the days end lynch. Its only 3 pages into the game and he is already thinking about who should die today.

    #88 He responds strongly to a soft poke suggesting the player is very sensitive to pressure. He reacts with aggression attempting to hammer a newer less confident player into submission while effectively responding to the suggestion that he not scum hunting (By saying he is painting targets as scummy as opposed to scum hunting) with ‘I know you are but what am I’. He is too good of a player for this kind of worthless response and it suggests it was more of a strong reaction to the reaction poke (Which was actually directed at Firebringer.) The reason I asked you to direct that poke at firebringer was to gain reads on both Firebringer as well as him. He fell into this trap jumping hard on a post that was not even a hard bid for support against him with soft reasoning. This is kind of the concept of a trap. Its putting out information and thinking about how a scum or town respective would respond to said information to influence how you present it. He responded in an extremely scummy way attacking your credibility with aggression in a way that was focused on defusing a potential slip (From his perspective) as opposed to generating information for reads.

    #107 He suggests that RVS does not have to be random insinuating that there can be reasoning behind his votes. This is a soft contradiction with his post 49 where he shows reasoning for a player being mafia yet votes a different slot. When you see a player call another player mafia but then vote a different slot you should pay attention to it. There is no reason for town to scum read a slot and vote another slot without attached questions that generate content to solve the game. This is a reflection of his lack of desire to solve the game and instead just push a mislynch.

    #332 Pushing weak meta bullshit on a player. Once again painting a target as scummy as opposed to really scum hunting. It is very easy for scum to rely on meta. Meta is a nice catch phrase that excuses reasoning that can be understood. It allows a player to scum read a target with ‘accepted reasoning’ that is not based on any reasoning at all.

    #429 Pushes against the Banana lynch with no previously stated opinion that Banana is ‘town’ or anything close to it. He suggests that he is “Reading too hard into things” which is in contrast with his posts. All of his earlier posts hint at heavy reasoning while providing very little evidence of actual reasoning in favor of ‘painting targets as scummy’ which could only come from a town perspective if they were generating content on players and were pushes to gain reads and information. I simply do not see this taking place and the slot looks more like scum mud slinging than town attempting to solve the game. You can draw from this that he is handing out town cred from an informed perspective. His reasoning that Banana is town is not related to reasoning/analysis/reads but is instead based on an informed perspective of knowing exactly what Banana’s alignment is. This is the kind of scum slip you should look for and consider on a player using perspective analysis.

    #430 Pretty much pushes on every easy target echoing the towns opinion of Firebringer, POD, AIVION, and Excalibur. More focus on meta nonsense with weak reasoning and zero real content contributions analyzing the posts in the game. Self explanatory.

    #449 Says he is willing to lynch Frozen or Firebringer with a vote on Frozen. (Notice that he said lynch, not pressure.) With a massive amount of time left in the day the player is once again willing to just kill slots and not interested in creating content to analyze. This looks like scum who is trying to focus town attention on specific slots to guide the lynch from an informed perspective with an thought out macro plans for controlling day chat. You should look at this as the slot speaking from a scum prespective. Always try to identify the perspective a player could be speaking from when trying to read the slot.
    [4/23/2016 6:57:08 AM] Craig B: #459 He specifically says “obstructing what I want to get done” once again suggesting he has some kind of planned actions. This is not solving the game or analyzing posts. Its voicing a plan with lots of pushes on Frozen that have no actual analysis behind them. The only thing I could even call coming from a town perspective would be “I don’t understand why Banana is town leaning on you” but even that is from a scum perspective because in post #429 he pushes against a Banana lynch suggesting that he town read the slot. This is a hard contradiction with him not being able to keep track of how he has voiced his faked ‘reads’ on slots. Remember that scum have to fake their ‘reads’ while towns are legit. You do not see this kind of contradiction in town players.

    #480 Town reads Superjack for not caring? Just.. Wut? Why would he town read SJ for not caring and scum read Excaliber for not caring? Again, A contradiction in the players presented reasoning that reflects the lack of reasoning behind his posts. This is a soft contradiction and is subjective.

    #572 He says he is willing to lynch Excaliber, Avion, and Gyrlander. Once again there is a lot of the time left in the day and he is expressing a desire to lynch slots presenting options to the town for his potential votes with no reasoning. This is setting up for a reasonless vote in the future that he can cut back to and say “See, I said I was willing here so it was not opportunistic.” It is a noob scum play that is pretty common. I will try to dig up more references of this happening later but it is not uncommon.

    #583 He pushes against slots that have targeted him which is again a reflection of sensitivity to pressure. His focus is to stay alive and as such he is more inclined to jump on targets that have threatened that as opposed to scum hunting / solving alignments. Always consider a scum alignments priorities in a game. You should break down their motivations prior to a game and identify what exactly you should be looking for. Universally all scums priority is to stay alive over scum hunting.

    #590 You can notice an immediate contradiction between his first statement. “Well you are scummier than banana” followed by “I null read you and town read Banana.” He is putting you and Banana on a ‘scum scale’ which would make sense if he scum read both slots but he also says he town reads Banana which is out of place. Then at the end he suggests he can read Frozen better after a flip voting on you. This is again, saying he wants a player to die and not ‘I am pressuring this player for information’

    The conclusion you can draw from these posts is that the target is not scum hunting at all and his posts are not based on reasoning but rather a result of speaking from an informed perspective. He knows all alignments and thus has no need to analyze posts and is instead pretending to analyze posts. I am not sure of the players skill level but there is potential for Banana to be his team mate as scum with him both putting the player on a scum scale for comparison and then town reading her without reasoning. Focus on presenting the contradictions and exactly why his posts come from a scum prespective when you present this to the town but the lynch pool today should be PoD/Banana/Secondpassing. Probably both scum are in this pool but I am very confident that SP is scum here.
    [4/23/2016 6:57:41 AM] Craig B: (Start of my notes is #46)
    [4/23/2016 6:57:59 AM] Craig B: I would simply post that with a vote on Secondpassing
    [4/23/2016 6:58:11 AM] Craig B: And then not post again for at least an hour
    [4/23/2016 6:58:31 AM] Craig B: If they say they want more of my notes tell them I am upset with you for dirrectly posting my comments to you
    [4/23/2016 6:58:55 AM] Craig B: And that I said its not my intention to give you things to say but rather to teach concepts
    [4/23/2016 6:59:22 AM] Craig B: (This is true and I do not plan on doing this again this game, I want you to understand concepts and not just what to say)
    [4/23/2016 6:59:31 AM] Craig B: Although I am not upset : P
    [4/23/2016 6:59:52 AM] Craig B: Reguardless town will eat that shit up if you are able to post it soon enough
    [4/23/2016 6:59:58 AM] Craig B: And should only take you like 2 mins to do
    Last edited by Helz; May 1st, 2016 at 07:03 PM.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  49. ISO #899

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    [QUOTE=Helz;590170]
    Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
    @Helz Apparently I'm a very a scummy player. (I look like scum). Would have loved to see your case on me.

    Sure. Here is my post..

    [4/23/2016 6:55:10 AM] Craig B: Basically
    [4/23/2016 6:55:15 AM] Craig B: Like
    [4/23/2016 6:55:20 AM] Craig B: Say that you are busy and shit
    [4/23/2016 6:55:27 AM] Craig B: And that you have real life stuffs
    [4/23/2016 6:55:37 AM] Craig B: And then just say you are going to post my notes on SP
    [4/23/2016 6:56:00 AM] Craig B: Keep in mind this shit is fake. But I believe just posting it should guarentee SP's lynch for the end of the day
    [4/23/2016 6:56:08 AM] Craig B: As long as you are able to post is soon enough
    [4/23/2016 6:56:24 AM] Craig B: But just post it verbatum and say its my notes to you
    [4/23/2016 6:56:34 AM] Craig B: I left a few things in there that should appeal to each player in this game
    [4/23/2016 6:56:53 AM] Craig B: #46 Votes Banana
    #48 Votes Frozen
    #49 Votes TDL while saying he reasoned that Superjack would be mafia
    Yeah, Its RVS but this vote flipping is insane. It shows the player is nervous about who he places his vote on and then with the 4th post in a row (third vote in a row) he suggests a player is mafia and votes someone else. This is not town behavior. If he was town this early in the game he would vote the slot that he read as ‘mafia’ with the slightest reasoning. What you can identify from this is the player backtracking on what should be a mindless vote. He is instead putting a lot of thought into who he is voting and how others will read his vote and then soft slips at the 4th post. Town would throw out a vote and think little of it or give a vote with reasoning that creates content. Neither of these things are represented here.

    #53 He reasons into macro lynch train plays staying mindful of who is voted and how that will play out for the days end lynch. Its only 3 pages into the game and he is already thinking about who should die today.

    #88 He responds strongly to a soft poke suggesting the player is very sensitive to pressure. He reacts with aggression attempting to hammer a newer less confident player into submission while effectively responding to the suggestion that he not scum hunting (By saying he is painting targets as scummy as opposed to scum hunting) with ‘I know you are but what am I’. He is too good of a player for this kind of worthless response and it suggests it was more of a strong reaction to the reaction poke (Which was actually directed at Firebringer.) The reason I asked you to direct that poke at firebringer was to gain reads on both Firebringer as well as him. He fell into this trap jumping hard on a post that was not even a hard bid for support against him with soft reasoning. This is kind of the concept of a trap. Its putting out information and thinking about how a scum or town respective would respond to said information to influence how you present it. He responded in an extremely scummy way attacking your credibility with aggression in a way that was focused on defusing a potential slip (From his perspective) as opposed to generating information for reads.

    #107 He suggests that RVS does not have to be random insinuating that there can be reasoning behind his votes. This is a soft contradiction with his post 49 where he shows reasoning for a player being mafia yet votes a different slot. When you see a player call another player mafia but then vote a different slot you should pay attention to it. There is no reason for town to scum read a slot and vote another slot without attached questions that generate content to solve the game. This is a reflection of his lack of desire to solve the game and instead just push a mislynch.

    #332 Pushing weak meta bullshit on a player. Once again painting a target as scummy as opposed to really scum hunting. It is very easy for scum to rely on meta. Meta is a nice catch phrase that excuses reasoning that can be understood. It allows a player to scum read a target with ‘accepted reasoning’ that is not based on any reasoning at all.

    #429 Pushes against the Banana lynch with no previously stated opinion that Banana is ‘town’ or anything close to it. He suggests that he is “Reading too hard into things” which is in contrast with his posts. All of his earlier posts hint at heavy reasoning while providing very little evidence of actual reasoning in favor of ‘painting targets as scummy’ which could only come from a town perspective if they were generating content on players and were pushes to gain reads and information. I simply do not see this taking place and the slot looks more like scum mud slinging than town attempting to solve the game. You can draw from this that he is handing out town cred from an informed perspective. His reasoning that Banana is town is not related to reasoning/analysis/reads but is instead based on an informed perspective of knowing exactly what Banana’s alignment is. This is the kind of scum slip you should look for and consider on a player using perspective analysis.

    #430 Pretty much pushes on every easy target echoing the towns opinion of Firebringer, POD, AIVION, and Excalibur. More focus on meta nonsense with weak reasoning and zero real content contributions analyzing the posts in the game. Self explanatory.

    #449 Says he is willing to lynch Frozen or Firebringer with a vote on Frozen. (Notice that he said lynch, not pressure.) With a massive amount of time left in the day the player is once again willing to just kill slots and not interested in creating content to analyze. This looks like scum who is trying to focus town attention on specific slots to guide the lynch from an informed perspective with an thought out macro plans for controlling day chat. You should look at this as the slot speaking from a scum prespective. Always try to identify the perspective a player could be speaking from when trying to read the slot.
    [4/23/2016 6:57:08 AM] Craig B: #459 He specifically says “obstructing what I want to get done” once again suggesting he has some kind of planned actions. This is not solving the game or analyzing posts. Its voicing a plan with lots of pushes on Frozen that have no actual analysis behind them. The only thing I could even call coming from a town perspective would be “I don’t understand why Banana is town leaning on you” but even that is from a scum perspective because in post #429 he pushes against a Banana lynch suggesting that he town read the slot. This is a hard contradiction with him not being able to keep track of how he has voiced his faked ‘reads’ on slots. Remember that scum have to fake their ‘reads’ while towns are legit. You do not see this kind of contradiction in town players.

    #480 Town reads Superjack for not caring? Just.. Wut? Why would he town read SJ for not caring and scum read Excaliber for not caring? Again, A contradiction in the players presented reasoning that reflects the lack of reasoning behind his posts. This is a soft contradiction and is subjective.

    #572 He says he is willing to lynch Excaliber, Avion, and Gyrlander. Once again there is a lot of the time left in the day and he is expressing a desire to lynch slots presenting options to the town for his potential votes with no reasoning. This is setting up for a reasonless vote in the future that he can cut back to and say “See, I said I was willing here so it was not opportunistic.” It is a noob scum play that is pretty common. I will try to dig up more references of this happening later but it is not uncommon.

    #583 He pushes against slots that have targeted him which is again a reflection of sensitivity to pressure. His focus is to stay alive and as such he is more inclined to jump on targets that have threatened that as opposed to scum hunting / solving alignments. Always consider a scum alignments priorities in a game. You should break down their motivations prior to a game and identify what exactly you should be looking for. Universally all scums priority is to stay alive over scum hunting.

    #590 You can notice an immediate contradiction between his first statement. “Well you are scummier than banana” followed by “I null read you and town read Banana.” He is putting you and Banana on a ‘scum scale’ which would make sense if he scum read both slots but he also says he town reads Banana which is out of place. Then at the end he suggests he can read Frozen better after a flip voting on you. This is again, saying he wants a player to die and not ‘I am pressuring this player for information’

    The conclusion you can draw from these posts is that the target is not scum hunting at all and his posts are not based on reasoning but rather a result of speaking from an informed perspective. He knows all alignments and thus has no need to analyze posts and is instead pretending to analyze posts. I am not sure of the players skill level but there is potential for Banana to be his team mate as scum with him both putting the player on a scum scale for comparison and then town reading her without reasoning. Focus on presenting the contradictions and exactly why his posts come from a scum prespective when you present this to the town but the lynch pool today should be PoD/Banana/Secondpassing. Probably both scum are in this pool but I am very confident that SP is scum here.
    [4/23/2016 6:57:41 AM] Craig B: (Start of my notes is #46)
    [4/23/2016 6:57:59 AM] Craig B: I would simply post that with a vote on Secondpassing
    [4/23/2016 6:58:11 AM] Craig B: And then not post again for at least an hour
    [4/23/2016 6:58:31 AM] Craig B: If they say they want more of my notes tell them I am upset with you for dirrectly posting my comments to you
    [4/23/2016 6:58:55 AM] Craig B: And that I said its not my intention to give you things to say but rather to teach concepts
    [4/23/2016 6:59:22 AM] Craig B: (This is true and I do not plan on doing this again this game, I want you to understand concepts and not just what to say)
    [4/23/2016 6:59:31 AM] Craig B: Although I am not upset : P
    [4/23/2016 6:59:52 AM] Craig B: Reguardless town will eat that shit up if you are able to post it soon enough
    [4/23/2016 6:59:58 AM] Craig B: And should only take you like 2 mins to do
    Oh. I think you got me mixed up with AIVION, I was night killed for activity.

    He and I are rather similar.

  50. ISO #900

    Re: S-FM 191: Decisions

    I really think if that had been posted in a timely manner that SP would have been the D1 lynch for a combination of the reasoning in it, the 'teaching' notes attached with it and the targeted appeals that I used.. I bet if AVION had posted that he could have lurked the entire next day as well before getting real pressure : )

    That shit was sexy
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

 

 

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