Next starter game.

[NoctiZ]

FUCK YEH.

I'll just kick my partner out and you can have their place in my bed

I mean it doesn't have to be the bed

but it'd be a real possibility. I'm just not sure on where to stay during the time there, I know a few people I wanna meet but not everyone can let me stay at their place and idk any inns or the like which are not very expensive. I'll have to plan this through lol

[SuperJack]

SuperJack is the mayor with 5 votes.

[SuperJack]

-vote Calix

[SuperJack]

Calix was Punched to death.

[Calix]

-vote Calix

-vote SuperJack

[The Godfather]

SuperJack has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


SuperJack (1 [L-0]): Calix

[DarknessB]

My thoughts are in teal.

Ok

@MattZed The Matrix 6 setup is very balanced. (Proven with lots of games)
Detevtive/Sheriffs are balanced with Doctors/Vests/Consorts

I agree with this. I think MattZed's point is to add some variety and avoid our beginner program becoming a rip off of Mafiascum's. Perhaps some of us in this group such as you, me, Calix, MattZed, Crypt, whomever else has an opinion, can do some brainstorming on good basic setups to run.

But if you have suggestions do show me.
And yeh, I have learnt my lesson about replacing people.

That's good to hear. You should also stick that directly in the game rules and provide warnings to players who aren't meeting the threshold just because they may not be as cognizant as beginners.

@Veri Yes I may of delayed the EOD posts, If I posted them earlier then either then night would of been longer, or I would of been unable to be their after 24 hours. I have a set time to make the posts because its the time everything where I know I'm free (Unless Emergency takes place, which it did once.)

I mean, you can always adjust night length as long as it's around 24 hours. Hosts do that all the time. I think players just don't like when they are waiting around for a flip / for night to start because it means a delay in the game. It also makes us look less organized and isn't as good of an impression on the beginners.

And yes, Panda may of had experience, she had played a few games before on her Animal Crossing forum. She was no veteran though. But once the game had started, its something I wish I actually did, since sometimes the game did need experienced players to push it further into discussion. And it's most likely something I will add next time.

Panda had experience, but she was also being a little pushy about it during Day 1 with overuse of jargon that many of us had never heard of, like RQS. Just something to be mindful of -- you shouldn't need a glossary in front of you to follow a Beginner's FM Game. As a shameless plug, I do encourage players to use the Wiki, however, which is being updated with a lot more FM content, including the glossary. If anyone has terms they want defined, respond here or PM me.

And the game in the end was not "Who is the winner" its just about people getting the feel for forum mafia on this forum. Make some new friends ect.

Sure, but effectively, the Town could not win because Panda was not around to vote, which many of the new players found very frustrating. It's the idea that they would rather lose a well-played game than win a poorly played one.

I had hoped that Panda was going to post, as she -DID- come online and read the mail, and view the topic. Yet I could not wait around to see if she did. I had other games going on myself where participating in, along with work and family stuff. So I had missed Panda's bout of inactivity. Yet also no one brought it up with me until after the game had finished.

Perhaps this is a good idea for non-playing veterans to be monitoring the game, or for you to have a co-host who can watch the game closer during those times that you cannot. Especially given we are dealing with beginners here, we really want to strive for the best experience that we can. I think the flat 5 post rule would have helped too because Panda should have been pulled before LYLO. Replacing a player out at LYLO isn't fair to anyone in the game given the new slot.

About the Mentors
The Primary reason I brought mentors into the newbie game was so that the players could have someone to talk to, someone already part of the community they could get to know, and support each other.
When I join with new people on the forums, I don't just talk about the game, I get to know the new player aswell. I had hoped that the Mentors would do what I had.

Agreed -- part of the idea is to strike up friendships and make people feel more connected to the community, which has been a success in terms of the new players and mentors bonding together during and after the game.

The Secondary reason was to help them with the game. I did not want the Mentors playing the games for them, or doing most of the handy work (Which is why I didn't make them Hydras). The game with the new players is so that the New players can get a feel to what Forum Mafia is like, I expected the new players to make mistakes as that is perhaps the best way of learning (For example, I will never again vote early in a 3v2).

Mistakes are fine, but people having no idea how to start the game and mentors not helping there isn't a mistake. I just felt like there could have been a bit more support especially during Day 1 or about things like pre-flip assocations, which doomed the Town, but no other mentor mentioned but me.

And I do apologise that some mentors didn't do as much as others form your PoV. I didn't want to sit in the chat and push the mentor to mentor. I just kind of excepted them to.
And from what I understand, some players didn't want a mentor to hold their hand, once they got going in the game they where fine.

I think the issue was trying to encourage the mentors to ask their mentees what they wanted and cater to that preference. I.e. some mentees wanted very hands on / close coordination, and others wanted more hands off / let me do what I want. Both are completely fine. What's less fine is where the mentee really wants help but doesn't feel comfortable approaching the mentor who as been AFK, which I understand occurred a lot. In other words, mentors should be as active as the mentee wants to make the experience good for them.

What will most likely happen next time
I will include both Experienced (not Veteran) players, and allow Mentors in the next game, If a player wishes for one. (So both, like Calix said)
Give a more detailed job of what I wish the Mentors to do.

This makes sense to me. I would also propose carefully reviewing the rules for activity requirements, perhaps adding a co-host, perhaps augmenting materials about how to play (Wiki, etc.), and trying to solicit mentors further in advance.

[DarknessB]

Sure you can host them and I can be a Mentor if you wish.

I feel very sorry for whichever newbie draws that short straw...

In all seriousness, either co-hosts or a host that is going to be VERY attentive to the game. I know that's not always possible because of schedules, but there were bunches of host-type questions in-game that were never answered.

[DarknessB]

I mean it doesn't have to be the bed

He wants it to be the bed -- beggars can't be choosers, Noctiz.

[NoctiZ]

He wants it to be the bed -- beggars can't be choosers, Noctiz.

Hey, no worries, anything for my dear friends and shitposters

[SuperJack]

I mean it doesn't have to be the bed

but it'd be a real possibility. I'm just not sure on where to stay during the time there, I know a few people I wanna meet but not everyone can let me stay at their place and idk any inns or the like which are not very expensive. I'll have to plan this through lol

Well if you're serious, I'll have to discuss it with you-know-who, and we don't currently have a spare bed in the spare bedroom. Just my wardrobe 0-o. But inflatable mattresses are always somewhere,

[Frozen Angel]

@NoctiZ

I hate you

I'm not frustrated.

I just really hate you.

You remind me of someone ... Who I will kill if I find her.

You remind me of the day I commited suicide!

but lets not go oftopic ok?

I'm not discussing this. I did my job and explained a completely applicable reasonable way for implementing newbie games and explained its pro's and con's in detail. I read all your posts and ideas and about those who were actually about this matter you were just repeating darkness or the parts I am agreed with and weren't the point of discussion.

And about the idea of having mentors for whoever they want it : I agree that might help if the mentor don't play the game for the slot or just let it go. I explained the pros and cons and I was trying to make a discussion here while some people like you just want to take a stance and attack whoever else.

I won't ever do any other favors for this community. I know you didn't ask for it but meh!

I'm really restricted about the punishments I assign.

oh and please Go get lost and never mention me again.

Thank you

[Frozen Angel]

oh and the fact i hate you has no relation to this discussion. Its just you remind me of someone. don't take it personal

[NoctiZ]

Well if you're serious, I'll have to discuss it with you-know-who, and we don't currently have a spare bed in the spare bedroom. Just my wardrobe 0-o. But inflatable mattresses are always somewhere,

I don't know really, probably depends on how close you are to London. If it's quite a trip then I would probably not make it but I think it'd be cool if we could atleast meet up once just for shits and giggles, maybe hit up a bar or something if even. We'll discuss this further if I'm committing to the trip.

[SuperJack]

@DarknessB

Yes I'm hoping that the clever clogs on Setups can help here create some. But at the end of the day, the setups will be basic and that may mean. yes, they will be very simile to other site versions.

And Yeh I could adjust the night lenghts, but I had a lot on my plate to deal with and it was much easier to be on and make players wait until that time. Just because of my personal timing thats all.

I recognized the issues with day 1. And that why having people who have played it before to push day 1 discussion is a good idea.
If it was not for Panda, I am sure day 1 would of been a lot less eventful.

[SuperJack]

I don't know really, probably depends on how close you are to London. If it's quite a trip then I would probably not make it but I think it'd be cool if we could atleast meet up once just for shits and giggles, maybe hit up a bar or something if even. We'll discuss this further if I'm committing to the trip.

LOL NOPE.

Not London pal, I'm opposite side of England. But I'm sure I can pop down their to see you!

[NoctiZ]

@NoctiZ

I hate you

I'm not frustrated.

I just really hate you.

You remind me of someone ... Who I will kill if I find her.

You remind me of the day I commited suicide!

but lets not go oftopic ok?

I'm not discussing this. I did my job and explained a completely applicable reasonable way for implementing newbie games and explained its pro's and con's in detail. I read all your posts and ideas and about those who were actually about this matter you were just repeating darkness or the parts I am agreed with and weren't the point of discussion.

And about the idea of having mentors for whoever they want it : I agree that might help if the mentor don't play the game for the slot or just let it go. I explained the pros and cons and I was trying to make a discussion here while some people like you just want to take a stance and attack whoever else.

I won't ever do any other favors for this community. I know you didn't ask for it but meh!

I'm really restricted about the punishments I assign.

oh and please Go get lost and never mention me again.

Thank you

See, you're just being ridiculous when you say that I was just trying to attack anyone and I'm not sure people would agree with your assessment of this. And I find it cute that you repeat you hate me. If it's not really about me then don't bring it up again and again you emotional demon.

[SuperJack]

@Frozen Angel

Noctiz is a pretty swell fella, dont let this one topic make you have a permanent judgement on the fello


And @NoctiZ leave it and dont reply to her :P you will only cause this rift to continue

[Frozen Angel]

I am an emotional demon.

and you just mentioned me again.

Just drop it before I rage. You will hate yourself after it.

[NoctiZ]

LOL NOPE.

Not London pal, I'm opposite side of England. But I'm sure I can pop down their to see you!

Heh it's no problem even if you couldn't make it down there, after all not everyone can be expected to do so at any time. I'll stay in touch and let you know what's up though.

[Cryptonic]

No. But you can be a Mentor.

Ok, fine.

I have a brand new friend who wants to try FM but he doesn't have an account yet. Can he sign up?
I'll be his Mentor.

[NoctiZ]

@Frozen Angel

Noctiz is a pretty swell fella, dont let this one topic make you have a permanent judgement on the fello


And @NoctiZ leave it and dont reply to her :P you will only cause this rift to continue

I can't help myself, I just gotta mention her.

@Frozen Angel

[SuperJack]

Heh it's no problem even if you couldn't make it down there, after all not everyone can be expected to do so at any time. I'll stay in touch and let you know what's up though.

Awesome. Lets not invite the other English scrubs though like @Mikecall ;)

[NoctiZ]

Ok, fine.

I have a brand new friend who wants to try FM but he doesn't have an account yet. Can he sign up?

Only if I can be your new friend.

[DarknessB]

@DarknessB

Yes I'm hoping that the clever clogs on Setups can help here create some. But at the end of the day, the setups will be basic and that may mean. yes, they will be very simile to other site versions.

And Yeh I could adjust the night lenghts, but I had a lot on my plate to deal with and it was much easier to be on and make players wait until that time. Just because of my personal timing thats all.

I recognized the issues with day 1. And that why having people who have played it before to push day 1 discussion is a good idea.
If it was not for Panda, I am sure day 1 would of been a lot less eventful.

Oh yeah -- the setups should be very basic. Really some combination of the roles we saw / could have seen in this game -- Citizen, Sheriff, Doctor, Detective / Lookout, maybe a Body Double, maybe Vigilante, Mafioso, Consigliere, Consort, etc. We don't need anything even a step up like a Mayor which could cause a lot of chaos.

The night length issue is solved by having co-hosts since they can balance the duties / timing. I think for this game, it'd be a really good idea just to have an extra set of eyes on the game, because we don't want beginners suffering in silence and they may less inclined to raise issues on their own.

Re: Day 1, the mentors hopefully will assist with that process as well. I get that RVS is somewhat unlikely for a Beginner's Game, but even some basic setup speculation or more informed RQS would be nice.

[NoctiZ]

Awesome. Lets not invite the other English scrubs though like @Mikecall ;)

Yeah, let's make it super exclusive and not invite others for absolutely no reason!

[SuperJack]

Ok, fine.

I have a brand new friend who wants to try FM but he doesn't have an account yet. Can he sign up?
I'll be his Mentor.

No. All new people have to go through me. I require Dic pics from each of them to prove they are not the same person, or a smurf. And I will use the Dic Pic database we have to comfirm this.

[DarknessB]

Ok, fine.

I have a brand new friend who wants to try FM but he doesn't have an account yet. Can he sign up?
I'll be his Mentor.

Not fair -- I want Crypt to be my mentor.

[SuperJack]

Oh yeah -- the setups should be very basic. Really some combination of the roles we saw / could have seen in this game -- Citizen, Sheriff, Doctor, Detective / Lookout, maybe a Body Double, maybe Vigilante, Mafioso, Consigliere, Consort, etc. We don't need anything even a step up like a Mayor which could cause a lot of chaos.

The night length issue is solved by having co-hosts since they can balance the duties / timing. I think for this game, it'd be a really good idea just to have an extra set of eyes on the game, because we don't want beginners suffering in silence and they may less inclined to raise issues on their own.

Re: Day 1, the mentors hopefully will assist with that process as well. I get that RVS is somewhat unlikely for a Beginner's Game, but even some basic setup speculation or more informed RQS would be nice.

Yeh Which is why Calix will hopefully host it. She is a good girl.

[Cryptonic]

No. All new people have to go through me. I require Dic pics from each of them to prove they are not the same person, or a smurf. And I will use the Dic Pic database we have to comfirm this.

Ok, that's fine.

Your setup is added to a special queue that goes through me. I will use the queue database to confirm when this can begin.

[Calix]

Yeh Which is why Calix will hopefully host it. She is a good girl.

Are we just using NotMatrix6 or can I use a range of basic setups?

[SuperJack]

Ok, that's fine.

Your setup is added to a special queue that goes through me. I will use the queue database to confirm when this can begin.

I'm hosting this in Arrows section, so Arrow is in charge of allowing it to play.

[SuperJack]

Are we just using NotMatrix6 or can I use a range of basic setups?

Depends, Darkness is saying that we shouldn't plagiarise things that are proven to work, so you may have to pretend to create your own. Perhaps ask other people to create some newbie setups.

[DarknessB]

Yeh Which is why Calix will hopefully host it. She is a good girl.

It's a good idea to divide up the tasks anyway. You are very good at recruiting people whereas Calix is very detail-oriented and would be good at running the game itself, I can work on some of the Wiki resources for new players, etc.

[Calix]

Depends, Darkness is saying that we shouldn't plagiarise things that are proven to work, so you may have to pretend to create your own. Perhaps ask other people to create some newbie setups.

Snark has been ignored. I am taking that as a yes.

[DarknessB]

Are we just using NotMatrix6 or can I use a range of basic setups?

I think that was a point of discussion with MattZed's preference not to run Matrix6 every time as the beginner setup (to avoid becoming a Mafiascum clone). Would be good to brainstorm some ideas as a group / run some setups past a bunch of us before picking one.

[DarknessB]

Depends, Darkness is saying that we shouldn't plagiarise things that are proven to work, so you may have to pretend to create your own. Perhaps ask other people to create some newbie setups.

This was actually MattZed's point that I was conveying on his behalf, but sure, you can attribute it to me as well, lol.

[Calix]

I think that was a point of discussion with MattZed's preference not to run Matrix6 every time as the beginner setup (to avoid becoming a Mafiascum clone). Would be good to brainstorm some ideas as a group / run some setups past a bunch of us before picking one.

Sure, I can look for some more on the MS wiki; they have a lot of ideas to spice it up a bit

Should I link them here?

[DarknessB]

Sure, I can look for some more on the MS wiki; they have a lot of ideas to spice it up a bit

Should I link them here?

Since this thread is becoming a bit off-topic / long, maybe it's best to start a new one in Forum Mafia Parking just so the discussion there can be solely focused on the beginner setups, and not on other stuff too.

[MattZed]

I actually just don't like Matrix6 as a setup. I would rather rig it to have 1 Cop 100% of the time and no other TPRs. The setups that roll with a Detective are a bit harder for town in a way that I think is just unnecessary.

[Calix]

I actually just don't like Matrix6 as a setup. I would rather rig it to have 1 Cop 100% of the time and no other TPRs. The setups that roll with a Detective are a bit harder for town in a way that I think is just unnecessary.

I guess this:

Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

would also not bother you?

[SuperJack]

I actually just don't like Matrix6 as a setup. I would rather rig it to have 1 Cop 100% of the time and no other TPRs. The setups that roll with a Detective are a bit harder for town in a way that I think is just unnecessary.

DUDE prove it. Explain how it was unbalanced.

[SuperJack]

I guess this:

Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

would also not bother you?

I read something about this being broken.

[SuperJack]

I read something about this being broken.

Or did I? Maybe Im confusing myself.

[DarknessB]

I actually just don't like Matrix6 as a setup. I would rather rig it to have 1 Cop 100% of the time and no other TPRs. The setups that roll with a Detective are a bit harder for town in a way that I think is just unnecessary.

Detective is a comparatively weak investigative role, I agree with that much.

[SuperJack]

Detective is a comparatively weak investigative role, I agree.

Which is why the Consort was not included.

Detective would have a 50/50 on scum.
And if he did get feedback there is a 50/50 chance that player is scum not doctor.

From their he works out who is what.

[Cryptonic]

I guess this:

Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

would also not bother you?

Yea! I love this setup.
Becomes more Balanced if Consort and do Roleblock & NK same night if alone.

[SuperJack]

Yea! I love this setup.
Becomes more Balanced if Consort and do Roleblock & NK same night if alone.

So B of Matix 6 lawls

[DarknessB]

Yea! I love this setup.
Becomes more Balanced if Consort and do Roleblock & NK same night if alone.

The only thing I don't like is that every role is set -- i.e. no possibility of any other configuration like with Matrix. It's fundamentally sound though. You might also consider whether to enable or disable LWs in terms of the Sheriff's leads.

[Calix]

So B of Matix 6 lawls

You do realise that basically ALL the basic setups are covered by Matrix6, right?

The only problem people seem to be having with that setup is the Detective role.