S-FM 196: QT 3.14 - Page 4
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  1. ISO #151

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    So for my reads at this crazy early stage...

    MattZed Leaning Town
    Kovath Slightly Leaning Town
    PLZLEAVEDUCKK Null
    Unknown- Null (By reason of not participating)
    FireBringer Slightly Leaning Scum
    Banana Slightly leaning Scum


    My lynch pool would be the bottom four players. I doubt I would be willing to lynch MattZed or Kovath today without something big happening to change my mind
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  2. ISO #152

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Reading back through my posts I suppose the thing I did not hit on is that I came to 2 conclusions with Duckk's push on Unknown. He must either be flat out lying about his level of certainty or he must have some OOG information. If its the prior what reason would he have as town to project such a hardcore scum read on a player he is friends with as town? Just reason it out and read through Unknown's posts. Sure the guy disappeared in an opportunistic way but I see nothing there that anyone could use to devine a hardcore read in any way. Duckk's read objectively needs attention as the single thing that is out of place at this stage in the game.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  3. ISO #153

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Oh, and btw. You guys just can't look away from my avatar am I right? Shit is just captivating
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  4. ISO #154

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Reading back through my posts I suppose the thing I did not hit on is that I came to 2 conclusions with Duckk's push on Unknown. He must either be flat out lying about his level of certainty or he must have some OOG information. If its the prior what reason would he have as town to project such a hardcore scum read on a player he is friends with as town? Just reason it out and read through Unknown's posts. Sure the guy disappeared in an opportunistic way but I see nothing there that anyone could use to devine a hardcore read in any way. Duckk's read objectively needs attention as the single thing that is out of place at this stage in the game.
    You can't have it both ways, Helz. As you've correctly indicated, the proper read on Duckk is a solid null; the 99.99% comment is odd, but it doesn't show alignment either way. What incentive does scum have to draw attention to themselves by making such an unsubstantiated argument? It was worthy of attention for being odd, but there's not much more to say about it anymore.

    I'll get to some of your other points that stuck out to me shortly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  5. ISO #155

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Nah, A Helz scum brag is when I make this post right here telling my unknown scum team mate that I am also scum and not to lynch me. That we should totally mislynch Calix instead

    -vote Calix
    This post keeps bothering me. A lot. The scum are very strongly incentivized to signal to each other this game. The best way to ensure plausible deniability is to hide it in a joke, such as the out-of-character Calix vote. Helz, do you claim a hidden town motivation for this post, or should I conclude you were just working toward your quota of shitposts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  6. ISO #156

  7. ISO #157

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Yep. Sorry I just woke up, give me time to catch up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  8. ISO #158

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    -unvote


    Just for the time being. I have more coming just wanted to say this first, but why are people already trying to pair people? I don't understand because it's more of a 5v1v1 right now, because they don't know who each other is so we can't figure out who they are without guessing randomly pairs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  9. ISO #159

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    You can't have it both ways, Helz. As you've correctly indicated, the proper read on Duckk is a solid null; the 99.99% comment is odd, but it doesn't show alignment either way. What incentive does scum have to draw attention to themselves by making such an unsubstantiated argument? It was worthy of attention for being odd, but there's not much more to say about it anymore.

    I'll get to some of your other points that stuck out to me shortly.
    Yes, but the diffrence between this player and the others is that although every player is really 'pretty much null' he had posts that stick out terribly. When called out about said posts he stood by them as opposed to acknowledging that he was misrepresenting his level of certainty. This points to deception. Every player in the game will probably agree that he was being deceptive in said posts; its just a question of 'why' he was being deceptive. What motivation would town have to pretend to have reads and fake reasoning to back up feigned certainty? Or in contrast what motivation would scum have for doing so? If you want to back his actions with a 'too scummy to be scum' argument have at it. I am just putting a spotlight on that action.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    This post keeps bothering me. A lot. The scum are very strongly incentivized to signal to each other this game. The best way to ensure plausible deniability is to hide it in a joke, such as the out-of-character Calix vote. Helz, do you claim a hidden town motivation for this post, or should I conclude you were just working toward your quota of shitposts?
    Think whatever you want about that post. I thought that shit was funny. Put in in context and have a chuckle
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  10. ISO #160

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Here is how I feel right now:

    Duck seems to 'know' how to read me from last game, but because I did not play much in that previous game that the read off my three posts is not a good pro-town move. If any of you checked the game last time you would know we were allies. What interests me the most about Duck is last game he was "100% certain I am Mafia." But now he is 99.99% certain I am Mafia, wonder why that .01 has disappeared?
    As for Duck he is probably trying to start a mislynch on me because he thinks it's easy enough to get rid of me and hope that it doesn't look bad on him for the future.

    Firebringer is what I would say seems even MORE scummy. He says "me and duck think alike" but clinging to people is basically what scum would do this game. You don't know who your team is, so making allies is key when for scum right now so they have someone backing them up.

    Kovath seems less confident this game. He is kind of chilling right now (other then on Duck) so I would be inclined to lean somewhat scum for him since he isn't trying to pull out reads at this moment.

    Helz seems to be like PTB was in my first game. I would say leading the town is something that I see a lot from him, but it doesn't seem like it's happening this game. Not sure where to put him so I will look into it more now

    Banana seems to be town, but very misguided. Most of what banana has said involves "tunnelling" or "bussing" those won't be accurate for this game because scum does NOT know who their teammates are, I expect more from her later (can't judge I haven't been active much yet either)

    MattZed is one of my more town reads, he seems to be pulling more out on others (including the Helz vote which makes no sense to me why that vote happened), as well as slightly clinging to people, which makes me wonder a little bit about his role.

    Town:
    Banana
    MattZed

    Null:Helz
    Kovath

    Scum:PLZLEAVEDUCKK
    Firebringer

    I am not done my analysis (it's not too great I know) but I will add more in a few hours when I have slightly more time. Expect me to be around in the next few hours but I won't have time for huge post analysis's
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  11. ISO #161

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Its bed time. Breakfast tacos are pretty much the greatest thing on the planet. After trying to think of something to ask Unknown for a while I just no. Tell MattZed there is some super secret nefarious message in this post btw.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  12. ISO #162

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    @BananaCucho , I switched back to Duckk because he was online and he was the one I thought could be most usefully interrogated by a D1 RV.

    As much as it pains me to say this, I agree with Banana about Helz. The overcertainty fits too superficially into the category of "things Helz would be doing as town;" Helz likes to latch onto overconfidence, (a technique I agree with in general) but here it doesn't really apply. Duckk was clearly being hyperbolic. But what's more suspicious is that scum aren't informed in this setup, so scum's true confidence shouldn't be any different from a town's.

    Of course, 99.99% confidence is simply not true in any case, which might suggest Duckk is either being careless about his reads (the more likely explanation, tbh), or is scum and is intentionally going after people he thinks are not his partner and making the case too strongly. But this doesn't really hold up, because the problem Helz has is with the strength of the read, not the read itself. The question to be asked is "if Duck were town/scum, how likely would he be to claim "99.99% confidence""? I don't see scum Duckk being much more likely than town Duckk to be doing this, and I doubt continuing this angle will be productive.

    Helz, I want an explanation as to why you're so stuck on an alleged overconfidence slip in a game where scum are uninformed.

    -vote Helz
    Me claiming a strong read is not alignment indicative. I am able to get strong alignment reads early on in the game as town, observing, and mafia. Charmanders revenge - correctly read morp(you) as cult within several posts(you were useful to town so did not push it), World of music - correctly read unknown as mafia within posts one and two(mafia allies, but I did not know my team until I saw the night chat link mid day), Final Fantasy 7- within 2 hours of the game I PM'ed banana that I knew she was mafia, and pmed superjack that I knew he was town.

  13. ISO #163

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    Me claiming a strong read is not alignment indicative. I am able to get strong alignment reads early on in the game as town, observing, and mafia. Charmanders revenge - correctly read morp(you) as cult within several posts(you were useful to town so did not push it), World of music - correctly read unknown as mafia within posts one and two(mafia allies, but I did not know my team until I saw the night chat link mid day), Final Fantasy 7- within 2 hours of the game I PM'ed banana that I knew she was mafia, and pmed superjack that I knew he was town.
    I can easily state against this.
    1.) You said I didn't react to pressure, you said my teammate did. So try to read what you say before you pretend to use it against me.
    2.) You can easily lie about not checking who your teammate was. Why? Because it gives you more credibility with your "scum reading."

    You don't have super powers to detect a scum in three posts, but let's see how well your 'super power' works then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  14. ISO #164

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    -unvote


    Just for the time being. I have more coming just wanted to say this first, but why are people already trying to pair people? I don't understand because it's more of a 5v1v1 right now, because they don't know who each other is so we can't figure out who they are without guessing randomly pairs.
    We already know this, thanks for acting like you are a part of this town, it is much appreciated.




    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Here is how I feel right now:

    Duck seems to 'know' how to read me from last game, but because I did not play much in that previous game that the read off my three posts is not a good pro-town move. If any of you checked the game last time you would know we were allies. What interests me the most about Duck is last game he was "100% certain I am Mafia." But now he is 99.99% certain I am Mafia, wonder why that .01 has disappeared?
    As for Duck he is probably trying to start a mislynch on me because he thinks it's easy enough to get rid of me and hope that it doesn't look bad on him for the future.

    Firebringer is what I would say seems even MORE scummy. He says "me and duck think alike" but clinging to people is basically what scum would do this game. You don't know who your team is, so making allies is key when for scum right now so they have someone backing them up.

    Kovath seems less confident this game. He is kind of chilling right now (other then on Duck) so I would be inclined to lean somewhat scum for him since he isn't trying to pull out reads at this moment.

    Helz seems to be like PTB was in my first game. I would say leading the town is something that I see a lot from him, but it doesn't seem like it's happening this game. Not sure where to put him so I will look into it more now

    Banana seems to be town, but very misguided. Most of what banana has said involves "tunnelling" or "bussing" those won't be accurate for this game because scum does NOT know who their teammates are, I expect more from her later (can't judge I haven't been active much yet either)

    MattZed is one of my more town reads, he seems to be pulling more out on others (including the Helz vote which makes no sense to me why that vote happened), as well as slightly clinging to people, which makes me wonder a little bit about his role.

    Town:
    Banana
    MattZed

    Null:Helz
    Kovath

    Scum:PLZLEAVEDUCKK
    Firebringer

    I am not done my analysis (it's not too great I know) but I will add more in a few hours when I have slightly more time. Expect me to be around in the next few hours but I won't have time for huge post analysis's
    Really you are harping on .01%? The reason is because someone earlier mentioned the percentage of certainty, I originally had 100%, and switched it to 99.99%. You keep saying things that are irrelevant. Why do you say I seem to know how to read you, you should be saying I have no fucking clue how to read you and that I am an idiot for being 100% sure that a town is mafia. It is not a pro town move for reading you as certain scum? It is your job to convince me you are town, not my job to find a hint of town in your lack of posts. Why would I think it is easy to get rid of you? I could not even successfully bus you in the previous game despite having a strong case. If anything don't you think I would look at another player, or maybe I would try to pocket you and be like "wow I just played with unknown, this looks different from last game it looks like his town play."

    Firebringer pocketing is possible.

    Not sure why kovath would be need to be confident when little has happened. Is he supposed to read me off early game shitposting?

    Will wait for your update on helz to comment I guess.

    Maybe banana is the only correctly guided one. She is the most likely to know about me making strong early game reads since she was a host of my first game, and that I knew she was mafia within hours of her previous game. Tunneling and bussing are very appropriate for this game, good players don't need to see their team list to know who their mafia ally is (me last game knowing you were my ally)

    I agree mattzed is going in many directions, not sure how to read it for now.

    Your scum list is terrible. It should be Fire/x or Duck/x, never us both. We could both be mafia, but it is more likely that fire knows I am town and is trying to pocket me as mafia, or that I am mafia and trying to suicide a 1 for 1 for some reason.

  15. ISO #165

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I can easily state against this.
    1.) You said I didn't react to pressure, you said my teammate did. So try to read what you say before you pretend to use it against me.
    2.) You can easily lie about not checking who your teammate was. Why? Because it gives you more credibility with your "scum reading."

    You don't have super powers to detect a scum in three posts, but let's see how well your 'super power' works then.
    Well seeing as at least half of this game is in the skypegroup, they could just search the chatbox to see if I said I didn't know who my team was now couldn't they? Fire and calix even discussed it further and linked other articles based on if it is a fair way to play the game. If you think I lied in the group... then sure.

    You say I dont have super powers, but then you say lets see how well it works. Why don't you just say "you are going to look like an idiot", or "I guess your superpowers failed this game."

    Rather then trying convince me that I am telling the truth or lieing about how I got to my reads, why don't you try being productive. Asks about something that will push the game forward. We had this exact same argument last game when we were mafia...

  16. ISO #166

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    We already know this, thanks for acting like you are a part of this town, it is much appreciated.






    Really you are harping on .01%? The reason is because someone earlier mentioned the percentage of certainty, I originally had 100%, and switched it to 99.99%. You keep saying things that are irrelevant. Why do you say I seem to know how to read you, you should be saying I have no fucking clue how to read you and that I am an idiot for being 100% sure that a town is mafia. It is not a pro town move for reading you as certain scum? It is your job to convince me you are town, not my job to find a hint of town in your lack of posts. Why would I think it is easy to get rid of you? I could not even successfully bus you in the previous game despite having a strong case. If anything don't you think I would look at another player, or maybe I would try to pocket you and be like "wow I just played with unknown, this looks different from last game it looks like his town play."

    Firebringer pocketing is possible.

    Not sure why kovath would be need to be confident when little has happened. Is he supposed to read me off early game shitposting?

    Will wait for your update on helz to comment I guess.

    Maybe banana is the only correctly guided one. She is the most likely to know about me making strong early game reads since she was a host of my first game, and that I knew she was mafia within hours of her previous game. Tunneling and bussing are very appropriate for this game, good players don't need to see their team list to know who their mafia ally is (me last game knowing you were my ally)

    I agree mattzed is going in many directions, not sure how to read it for now.

    Your scum list is terrible. It should be Fire/x or Duck/x, never us both. We could both be mafia, but it is more likely that fire knows I am town and is trying to pocket me as mafia, or that I am mafia and trying to suicide a 1 for 1 for some reason.
    So your telling me I am posting the obvious, but no one seems to be realizing it including you. "But it is more likely that fire knows I am town and is trying to pocket me as Mafia" how would fire know you are town good sir? The answer is He can't know, but you just said so yourself that everyone knows that. I told you my leads aren't 100% flawless because I am short on time, but in a few hours I can provide more. As for trying to convince you, I don't have to convince you. If you believe I am scum that's your job, my job is to find the scum and eliminate them. Whether you are included in hunting or you are hunting is certainly up to you. As for Kovath he is changing, when your evil you tend to change your strategy because you know that you are not innocent. And even though I was lynched day 3, everyone read me as scum (or null/light town) so I would consider myself under experienced and an easy lynch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  17. ISO #167

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    Well seeing as at least half of this game is in the skypegroup, they could just search the chatbox to see if I said I didn't know who my team was now couldn't they? Fire and calix even discussed it further and linked other articles based on if it is a fair way to play the game. If you think I lied in the group... then sure.

    You say I dont have super powers, but then you say lets see how well it works. Why don't you just say "you are going to look like an idiot", or "I guess your superpowers failed this game."

    Rather then trying convince me that I am telling the truth or lieing about how I got to my reads, why don't you try being productive. Asks about something that will push the game forward. We had this exact same argument last game when we were mafia...
    my point is you can't prove if you checked your role card. End of story. I am not only analyzing you I just have less time and you are the only person talking to me therefore that is why I am talking to you.

    If anyone would like to ask me something go for it, I am here as I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  18. ISO #168

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Lack of time is not an excuse for sub optimal play. It does not matter that Fire can't know I am town. There is a 83.3% chance I am town if he is mafia, and worst case for him is he is trying to pocket his own teammate which would probably tip me off that we are mafia partners since he would hopefully not be on the same wavelength as a mafia as town.

    You do have to convince me. I am the kind of player that reevaluates, even If I tunnel on you I am open to listen and change my mind. If you are town you do not want another player to be tunneling on a mislynch and should be trying to show me that you are town. This does not mean focusing on me but pushing a town agenda should be enough to get me to change my mind, and if it does not then I should be the one looked at for tunneling on a towny player.

  19. ISO #169

  20. ISO #170

  21. ISO #171

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    Lack of time is not an excuse for sub optimal play. It does not matter that Fire can't know I am town. There is a 83.3% chance I am town if he is mafia, and worst case for him is he is trying to pocket his own teammate which would probably tip me off that we are mafia partners since he would hopefully not be on the same wavelength as a mafia as town.

    You do have to convince me. I am the kind of player that reevaluates, even If I tunnel on you I am open to listen and change my mind. If you are town you do not want another player to be tunneling on a mislynch and should be trying to show me that you are town. This does not mean focusing on me but pushing a town agenda should be enough to get me to change my mind, and if it does not then I should be the one looked at for tunneling on a towny player.
    If your tunnelling me then I would say that's your fault. I don't need you coaching me so you don't need to tell me what to do. I know what I am supposed to do, but if you are going to tunnel on me then it is your choice, but I think you jumping to conclusions is not going anywhere, and if anything it's making you look anti-town because of lack of evidence for me, if you had a legitimate reason for voting me then I would believe you were town much more.

    -vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  22. ISO #172

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Reading back through my posts I suppose the thing I did not hit on is that I came to 2 conclusions with Duckk's push on Unknown. He must either be flat out lying about his level of certainty or he must have some OOG information. If its the prior what reason would he have as town to project such a hardcore scum read on a player he is friends with as town? Just reason it out and read through Unknown's posts. Sure the guy disappeared in an opportunistic way but I see nothing there that anyone could use to devine a hardcore read in any way. Duckk's read objectively needs attention as the single thing that is out of place at this stage in the game.
    Duck explained his read on Unknown. You can disagree with it but confidence does not equal "level of certainty obtained through OGC". It's just confidence.

    Also earlier you asked why I was town reading Duck - I also explained this already. Duck going for the early 1v1 + offering himself first feels like a town move from him instead of a scum move. Its a move I disagree with but it feels like a town tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  23. ISO #173

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    If your tunnelling me then I would say that's your fault. I don't need you coaching me so you don't need to tell me what to do. I know what I am supposed to do, but if you are going to tunnel on me then it is your choice, but I think you jumping to conclusions is not going anywhere, and if anything it's making you look anti-town because of lack of evidence for me, if you had a legitimate reason for voting me then I would believe you were town much more.

    -vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK
    Why do you always say both here and in the skype group that you don't need me coaching you. If you keep having to say this then obviously you do. I don't care how I look, I care to win the game, and to to that I have to lynch you. If I am wrong you are doing a shitty job of either convincing me or ensuring that town has enough information to win.

  24. ISO #174

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Duck seems to 'know' how to read me from last game, but because I did not play much in that previous game that the read off my three posts is not a good pro-town move. If any of you checked the game last time you would know we were allies. What interests me the most about Duck is last game he was "100% certain I am Mafia." But now he is 99.99% certain I am Mafia, wonder why that .01 has disappeared?
    As for Duck he is probably trying to start a mislynch on me because he thinks it's easy enough to get rid of me and hope that it doesn't look bad on him for the future.
    "Where did the .01% go" is not a valid argument. Like seriously why are you so focused on .01%? Its confidence. Move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  25. ISO #175

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    -unvote


    Just for the time being. I have more coming just wanted to say this first, but why are people already trying to pair people? I don't understand because it's more of a 5v1v1 right now, because they don't know who each other is so we can't figure out who they are without guessing randomly pairs.
    I don't see anyone trying to pair people? I see people providing simple read lists in which more than one person is scum read but who has done pairing?
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  26. ISO #176

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    What do you think of unknown thus far?
    Null but slightly town leaning after your interaction with him. He feels green and seems to be focused in the wrong places / thinking that something is scummy when it really isn't - but what he's saying feels genuine and not forced so it gives a town vibe.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  27. ISO #177

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    "Where did the .01% go" is not a valid argument. Like seriously why are you so focused on .01%? Its confidence. Move on.
    So the fact that he changed from 100% to 99.9% means that he is not certain that I am Mafia. That is EXACTLY what he did last game, except it was 100% because he was my teammate and knew I was scum. Why do you believe his argument on me, it is very lacking and I haven't seen anything that would appear slightly useful to anyone.

    Also @PLZLEAVEDUCKK If I say I don't need your coaching I have no idea why you think you should tell me how to play. Stick to your own game because frankly if I needed your advice I would ask, and it's especially not a good time in a game. Just like last game, you are trying to make me look inferior so that anything I say will be considered "weak"

    I dont see your argument on me, claiming to "know how to read me" when I was hardly involved last game is not a good argument.

    Banana, why do you believe him? Because it doesn't make sense to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  28. ISO #178

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    So the fact that he changed from 100% to 99.9% means that he is not certain that I am Mafia. That is EXACTLY what he did last game, except it was 100% because he was my teammate and knew I was scum. Why do you believe his argument on me, it is very lacking and I haven't seen anything that would appear slightly useful to anyone.

    Also @PLZLEAVEDUCKK If I say I don't need your coaching I have no idea why you think you should tell me how to play. Stick to your own game because frankly if I needed your advice I would ask, and it's especially not a good time in a game. Just like last game, you are trying to make me look inferior so that anything I say will be considered "weak"

    I dont see your argument on me, claiming to "know how to read me" when I was hardly involved last game is not a good argument.

    Banana, why do you believe him? Because it doesn't make sense to me.
    I don't believe his argument on you is solid, but I don't scum read him for it. Note that I gave you a slight town lean and my vote is on Helz, not you.

    I think duck is confident in his read on you even though I disagree with it. Don't try to make me choose sides because I wouldn't like to lynch either of you today.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  29. ISO #179

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    So the fact that he changed from 100% to 99.9% means that he is not certain that I am Mafia. That is EXACTLY what he did last game, except it was 100% because he was my teammate and knew I was scum. Why do you believe his argument on me, it is very lacking and I haven't seen anything that would appear slightly useful to anyone.

    Also @PLZLEAVEDUCKK If I say I don't need your coaching I have no idea why you think you should tell me how to play. Stick to your own game because frankly if I needed your advice I would ask, and it's especially not a good time in a game. Just like last game, you are trying to make me look inferior so that anything I say will be considered "weak"

    I dont see your argument on me, claiming to "know how to read me" when I was hardly involved last game is not a good argument.

    Banana, why do you believe him? Because it doesn't make sense to me.
    Dude I am not trying to coach you, I am stating what should be obvious that players should should be pushing agendas. If you are town you want to not only find evils, but project town so that others can read you, make connections, and then also believe your evil reads. I don't think you are inferior, I am trying to ask you to analyze what others said or develop reads rather then saying well duck was 100% sure, but now that hes 99.99% sure something is fishy!!

    Banana does not believe or really agree with me, but she understands it.

  30. ISO #180

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    I don't believe his argument on you is solid, but I don't scum read him for it. Note that I gave you a slight town lean and my vote is on Helz, not you.

    I think duck is confident in his read on you even though I disagree with it. Don't try to make me choose sides because I wouldn't like to lynch either of you today.
    You already chose Hanzo. You will pay, in this game or the next.

  31. ISO #181

  32. ISO #182

  33. ISO #183

  34. ISO #184

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Kovath View Post
    I want to hear Duck's justification, not you boys defending Duck for him.

    FB: Nah, I just didn't properly consider the possibility that you were TPR. Then it all made sense. My constant scumreading of you also probably helped keep you alive, so.
    This is towny from kovath. He asked a good question that was trying to figure out my alignment. He wanted my reaction to be able to read me. I said something that is pretty scummy in his mind, and he wanted to see what kind of response I would give, and not have someone lead me to the towny answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kovath View Post
    ... That game of basketball has me feeling incensed.

    I've already made my views on meta reads known previously. All you've done so far is told me, "lol he's scum, i just know, trust me".

    On another note, I'm slightly wary that suddenly several people (including myself) are jumping hard on this point.
    This is also towny. It reminds me of defending clarence in the Charmander game. Slightly different, but he is still noticing that it is odd that a lot of people are joining in on the same point which is a layer of awareness most scum, even some of the better players do not have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kovath View Post
    Your judgment is what is telling you that Unknown is scum, I assume, so why should it now be ignored in this instance?

    Also: If you have a solid read, then you should be trying to lynch him without giving up your own life in return. Another thing, noting that if he is scum and you are town or vice versa, mislynching the town first produces no real difference due to the KP mechanics; it basically converts the would-be-mafia-kill into for sure onto the specific townie rather than whoever the mafia chooses, which may or may not be beneficial overall.
    @Kovath I am curious why you are aware/pointing out mechanics this game when last game you were willing to lose town a lynch by sleeping over lynching secondpassing? This is a much less mechanically important decision, so I am more curious rather than reading it as town or scummy.

  35. ISO #185

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    @Kovath I am curious why you are aware/pointing out mechanics this game when last game you were willing to lose town a lynch by sleeping over lynching secondpassing? This is a much less mechanically important decision, so I am more curious rather than reading it as town or scummy.
    It was late in the day when I more critically examined my read of secondpassing, so I didn't have time to explain. The magnitude of the townread I got was so strong that I eliminated the possibility that SP was scum. In a world where SP is even 75% town, a lynch is better mechanically. However, in a world where SP is 100% town, however, a no-lynch is better than a town-lynch. (This one is more of a retrospective argument, admittedly, and not one I thought about until after we'd set the issue aside in the discussion, but also the extra town vote would have been critical in the cit-audit situation). To sum it up: I considered it to be a town lynch vs no lynch, I completely mentally eliminated the world where SP was scum.

    I'm looking at the posts that happened when I was sleeping, I'll come out with my thoughts soon.

    (P.S. For people not aware, the TPR thing was a reference to something from the World of Music game.)
    Death, yet the Town.
    ~The Town Code

  36. ISO #186

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Kovath View Post
    It was late in the day when I more critically examined my read of secondpassing, so I didn't have time to explain. The magnitude of the townread I got was so strong that I eliminated the possibility that SP was scum. In a world where SP is even 75% town, a lynch is better mechanically. However, in a world where SP is 100% town, however, a no-lynch is better than a town-lynch. (This one is more of a retrospective argument, admittedly, and not one I thought about until after we'd set the issue aside in the discussion, but also the extra town vote would have been critical in the cit-audit situation). To sum it up: I considered it to be a town lynch vs no lynch, I completely mentally eliminated the world where SP was scum.

    I'm looking at the posts that happened when I was sleeping, I'll come out with my thoughts soon.

    (P.S. For people not aware, the TPR thing was a reference to something from the World of Music game.)
    That makes sense. For as much as I have mentioned "mechanical" play, I agree with you. Even if mechanically someone should be confirmed mafia, I still might vote opposite of that ( some forms of online mafia have a timed vote and if it was final 3 a mafia could hammer for the win, so by not hammering the vote they should be "confirmed town", but I try to analyze more than that and see if something else like nerves caused them to no vote).

    I still have yet to analyze any of what helz has posted since I went to bed. I have skimmed it, but it is a lot of walls of text that I think require me to be more awake and alert to give them a fair analysis and change my read on him.

  37. ISO #187

  38. ISO #188

  39. ISO #189

  40. ISO #190

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Since we get four lynches I propose we:

    Lynch in any order: (this is my order though)
    Unknown
    Helz
    Mattzed
    Firebringer

    I am fairly sure we just win with this lynch order. If we were to go with this I would be willing to let me be swapped by banana and kovath with any of the lynches if they so agree.

  41. ISO #191

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    Since we get four lynches I propose we:

    Lynch in any order: (this is my order though)
    Unknown
    Helz
    Mattzed
    Firebringer

    I am fairly sure we just win with this lynch order. If we were to go with this I would be willing to let me be swapped by banana and kovath with any of the lynches if they so agree.
    Your Lynches mostly disagree with me. Why would you put Helz or Matt on? You didn't even explain why you would vote either
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  42. ISO #192

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Why are most people appearing to townread Banana off-hand? I think only Helz is leaning scum, and I haven't seen much concrete justification for the other reads.

    I've seen what other people say about it but I don't think this 1v1 proposal is a towny thing to say at all. In this setup, I'd argue that flips tell us far less than more typical ones. Duck could be town, Duck could be scum. If Duck's that sure about his read, he should be proving it to us (and he did explain), not basically saying "kill me if I'm wrong or if you don't trust me yet". It's a kind of offhand proposal, in my opinion, that means far less in this setup but yet is generating townreads by others that would be more justified (though not necessarily correct) in a game more typical than this one.

    Either way, because of time inconsistency problems we cannot commit our future selves to lynching one and then the other, so it's a meaningless statement that other people seem to think is towny.

    Also, Banana, my comment about being inclined to townread Helz for pressing Duck on the Unknown read was made earlier in the day and was based on Helz asking for the justification behind the read (so, prior to him doubling down on the certainty point). I'm not sure if you ended up conflating the arguments together in your mind afterwards or are just misrepresenting what I said, but it has me concerned.
    Death, yet the Town.
    ~The Town Code

  43. ISO #193

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    To reply to the point that Duck proposing the idea would be putting himself into harms way if he was scum: But, see, that's exactly why he would not be lynched first in this scenario, because his proposal has influenced our perceptions and interpretations of his play and how we would play out that situation.
    Death, yet the Town.
    ~The Town Code

  44. ISO #194

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Kovath View Post
    To reply to the point that Duck proposing the idea would be putting himself into harms way if he was scum: But, see, that's exactly why he would not be lynched first in this scenario, because his proposal has influenced our perceptions and interpretations of his play and how we would play out that situation.
    Yes WIFOM is always a factor to anything but I'm comfortable at this time town reading him.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  45. ISO #195

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by Kovath View Post
    To reply to the point that Duck proposing the idea would be putting himself into harms way if he was scum: But, see, that's exactly why he would not be lynched first in this scenario, because his proposal has influenced our perceptions and interpretations of his play and how we would play out that situation.
    Not my style as mafia. I am just really bored with how inactive this game has been so don't really care at the current moment.

  46. ISO #196

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    Me claiming a strong read is not alignment indicative. I am able to get strong alignment reads early on in the game as town, observing, and mafia. Charmanders revenge - correctly read morp(you) as cult within several posts(you were useful to town so did not push it), World of music - correctly read unknown as mafia within posts one and two(mafia allies, but I did not know my team until I saw the night chat link mid day), Final Fantasy 7- within 2 hours of the game I PM'ed banana that I knew she was mafia, and pmed superjack that I knew he was town.
    Well if you are actually able to get a strong alignment read 2 pages into the first day of a game from 3 small posts you are literally the greatest mafia player that has ever existed and are probably related to Miss Cleo. I know you are lying but props for sticking to your guns.

    Also I don't think I played in Charmanders revenge. Only game I have played on this site as Cult I was a cult leader and hard town read by every player until the game fell apart due to the host abandoning the game..
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  47. ISO #197

  48. ISO #198

    Re: S-FM 196: QT 3.14

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    @Helz

    I am not explaining why that post is a town post from Fire. I literally said I wouldn't explain it.
    Thats fine but useless. You have herd my rants about 'Expressing reasoning' enough times to know exactly what you are doing here.

    Quote Originally Posted by PLZLEAVEDUCKK View Post
    What do you think of unknown thus far?
    As of this post (170) I do not like his focus at all. Its coming off as more of a pissing contest that game related interactions. I will dig into him a bit once I am caught up.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  49. ISO #199

  50. ISO #200

 

 

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