Welp

[PowersThatBe]

The way people are saying gay rights wont go away or be over turned is the same to me as when people said Donald Trump will never be president. Anything can happen, so please be mindful that our fears are legitimate.

[Suntax]

Im not gonna go in depth on this gay rights fear debate, but did'nt trump say at the RNC he was gonna protect the LGBT community?

[PowersThatBe]

Im not gonna go in depth on this gay rights fear debate, but did'nt trump say at the RNC he was gonna protect the LGBT community?

"From foreign powers." But he picked an Anti LGBTQ running mate, he believes in marriage between man and woman only, he has gone to anti lgbtq events. Saying you'll protect them, and then doing literally everything the opposite is not good.

He's also a puppet, congress will make the legislation and he'll sign it. He's already filling his cabinet with insiders and big wall street money people. He's not draining and swamp.

[oops_ur_dead]

Btw, what I feel a lot of Trump supporters, and people lamenting jobs leaving the US in general, don't realize regarding these "lost jobs", especially those in the manufacturing sector, is that these jobs will never come back to the US no matter how many trade restrictions get implemented. The reason for that is simple: automation is taking over the market, and replaces millions of jobs. The reason companies outsource to China and Mexico is because it's cheaper than automation technology, not because it's cheaper than hiring American workers, and restricting trade to these countries would mean that American companies shift production to automated factories in the US, creating little to no jobs in the process (besides possibly skilled work). This isn't just a theory; it's been observed with a lot of "Made in America" products and those companies that already have shifted production away from Mexico and China back to the US.

Automation threatens to remove many industries, with driving jobs being a very near goal. That means at least 10 million jobs will be made completely obsolete within the next 10-20 years. This is by no means a bad thing. Automation makes life safer for everyone, allows us to get more products with less inputs, and lowers prices of goods. But automation is why we need economically-liberal governments now more than ever. By implementing early social safety nets, especially things such as basic guaranteed income, we can expand these social nets as unskilled labor, and even some skilled labor, is made obsolete by automation. Automation will be the next major paradigm shift in economics, and we cannot handle it with the current form of capitalism that exists in most countries. This is something that is already happening, and will continue to happen in our lifetimes at an increasing rate, and we need to be ready for it.

[thedougler]

LGBTQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP rights are a distracting side issue that affect a truly miniscule (but LOUD) fringe of the population. Most gays are NOT monogamous and the institution of marriage for the purposes of child rearing is basically a joke to most of them. I think they are driven mostly by jealousy and an exhibitionist desire to flaunt their lifestyle.

Pence was simply a strategic pawn to draw in the Evangelical vote which worked masterfully, but never forget that Trump himself is a twice divorced Manhattanite. I think if anything he's driven by simple apathy toward gays, not overt hatred. Might I remind you this apathy that Trump and I share was extremely common (>70% of the population) even less than ten years ago. Hillary herself was against gay marriage until 2013, and Obama didn't publically support it until well into his second term.

As for automation, we are a far cry from that point, but if it is on the horizon doesn't it make sense to stop importing unskilled labor, legal and illegal, just as Trump has advocated? The utopia that I envision is a world in which the benefits of automation acrue to a shrinking but increasingly educated and culturally cohesive US labor force. The US has been able to stave the off trend of automation for so long precisely because labor has been kept cheap through massive legal and illegal immigration, and productivity growth has flatlined since the 1995-2001 investment boom.

[oops_ur_dead]

As for automation, we are a far cry from that point,

Automation isn't something that'll be flicked on one day and suddenly all jobs are gone. The manufacturing sector has been decimated by automation already. Driving jobs are next, and this will happen within 10-20 years. There's huge incentive to replace drivers with self-driving vehicles.

but if it is on the horizon doesn't it make sense to stop importing unskilled labor, legal and illegal, just as Trump has advocated?

Probably. That's not really my point, and I partially agree with Trump there. However, a big reason why companies might go for unskilled illegal immigrants over automation is due to lower costs, and high start-up costs for small companies if they want to replace workers with automation.

The utopia that I envision is a world in which the benefits of automation acrue to a shrinking but increasingly educated and culturally cohesive US labor force.

Sure enough, although I think that automation threatens skilled labor as well, but in the much longer term. That's why programs such as free, universal education and guaranteed minimum income are important. Once there are no unskilled jobs left, people will have to get educated in order to find work, and having expensive education creates a caste of people who perpetually cannot find work because they aren't educated because they don't have money because they can't find work etc. In addition, guaranteed minimum income allows the economy to continue functioning, as people who can't get education (either because they are unwilling to, or they just don't have a useful skillset in this new economy) can still survive, as well as prop up the economy by consuming and thus keeping competition and innovation relevant.

The US has been able to stave the off trend of automation for so long precisely because labor has been kept cheap through massive legal and illegal immigration, and productivity growth has flatlined since the 1995-2001 investment boom.

Yep, though I'd add outsourcing to that list. My point was more that the jobs the US lost to outsourcing will never come back, and that the oft-repeated plan to introduce tariffs and restrict free trade won't decrease unemployment in the US.

[PowersThatBe]

LGBTQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP rights are a distracting side issue that affect a truly miniscule (but LOUD) fringe of the population. Most gays are NOT monogamous and the institution of marriage for the purposes of child rearing is basically a joke to most of them. I think they are driven mostly by jealousy and an exhibitionist desire to flaunt their lifestyle.

Pence was simply a strategic pawn to draw in the Evangelical vote which worked masterfully, but never forget that Trump himself is a twice divorced Manhattanite. I think if anything he's driven by simple apathy toward gays, not overt hatred. Might I remind you this apathy that Trump and I share was extremely common (>70% of the population) even less than ten years ago. Hillary herself was against gay marriage until 2013, and Obama didn't publically support it until well into his second term.

As for automation, we are a far cry from that point, but if it is on the horizon doesn't it make sense to stop importing unskilled labor, legal and illegal, just as Trump has advocated? The utopia that I envision is a world in which the benefits of automation acrue to a shrinking but increasingly educated and culturally cohesive US labor force. The US has been able to stave the off trend of automation for so long precisely because labor has been kept cheap through massive legal and illegal immigration, and productivity growth has flatlined since the 1995-2001 investment boom.

UMMM....what you said about the LGBTQ is categorically FALSE. Most of us want to be able to get married and have kids. There is no data to suggest we are any more promiscuous than straights. Coming in here and making those false generalizations is largest problem we have. You say all gays are this. Granting people equal protection under the constitution is not a distraction from anything. So let's get that straight right away.

We're not talking about Hillary or Obama, She didn't win and Obama is out of office come January. They both ended up supporting it, and Obama actually took steps in his presidency to clear the path for us. That is his ACTIONS speaking LOUDER than his words. So I accept people might not accept it but then eventually do, but you need to realize, we're not talking about moderate republicans or democrats with religious qualms.

We are talking about a far right sect of the repub party that is very very anti gay, and they are already working to undo protections Obama put in place. Forget Transgender rights thats for sure.

I'm sorry Dougler that our existence is a nuisance to you. But we'll keep it up

[BananaCucho]

LGBTQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP rights are a distracting side issue that affect a truly miniscule (but LOUD) fringe of the population. Most gays are NOT monogamous and the institution of marriage for the purposes of child rearing is basically a joke to most of them. I think they are driven mostly by jealousy and an exhibitionist desire to flaunt their lifestyle.

Pence was simply a strategic pawn to draw in the Evangelical vote which worked masterfully, but never forget that Trump himself is a twice divorced Manhattanite. I think if anything he's driven by simple apathy toward gays, not overt hatred. Might I remind you this apathy that Trump and I share was extremely common (>70% of the population) even less than ten years ago. Hillary herself was against gay marriage until 2013, and Obama didn't publically support it until well into his second term.

As for automation, we are a far cry from that point, but if it is on the horizon doesn't it make sense to stop importing unskilled labor, legal and illegal, just as Trump has advocated? The utopia that I envision is a world in which the benefits of automation acrue to a shrinking but increasingly educated and culturally cohesive US labor force. The US has been able to stave the off trend of automation for so long precisely because labor has been kept cheap through massive legal and illegal immigration, and productivity growth has flatlined since the 1995-2001 investment boom.

This deserves to be negrepped for the first paragraph alone. Didn't even read the rest.

[PowersThatBe]

This deserves to be negrepped for the first paragraph alone. Didn't even read the rest.

Yup considering that small amount of us is 7,340,433 men and women who identify as either gay, bi, or lesbian. I didn't even try to figure out trans #'s, but consider that to be another couple million. And if I went across the spectrum of gender identity, this number would grow.

I guess we can just write off 7 million people because you know, their problems don't matter.

[oops_ur_dead]

Yup considering that small amount of us is 7,340,433 men and women who identify as either gay, bi, or lesbian. I didn't even try to figure out trans #'s, but consider that to be another couple million. And if I went across the spectrum of gender identity, this number would grow.

I guess we can just write off 7 million people because you know, their problems don't matter.

Uh, that's actually much smaller than I thought it was. Isn't the rate of gay/bi people among the population at around 10%?

[PowersThatBe]

Uh, that's actually much smaller than I thought it was. Isn't the rate of gay/bi people among the population at around 10%?

No I think the 10% is a misnomer.

According to google.

1.8% of men are gay
0.4% are bi

1.5% of women are gay
0.9% of them are bi

[Klingoncelt]

I heard that there are lots of Anti-Trump protests and riots going on in the US now? What gives? It was a democratic process, and Trump won. That's the end of the story, isn't it?

Hillary won the popular vote, so there's that, but the larger issue is that the Alt Right and other Deplorables think that the Trump win gives them carte blanche for acts of hatred. Add to that Trump's crystal clear plans to return to the Bushreich policies and then some, including rollbacks on civil rights.

Those people are convinced - and with excellent reason - that America is going to tailspin into the feudal Dark Ages. They're terrified that nonwhites, non-xtians, non-heteros, and non-wealthy citizens are now all dispensible non-entities.

[PowersThatBe]

Hillary won the popular vote, so there's that, but the larger issue is that the Alt Right and other Deplorables think that the Trump win gives them carte blanche for acts of hatred. Add to that Trump's crystal clear plans to return to the Bushreich policies and then some, including rollbacks on civil rights.

Those people are convinced - and with excellent reason - that America is going to tailspin into the feudal Dark Ages. They're terrified that nonwhites, non-xtians, non-heteros, and non-wealthy citizens are now all dispensible non-entities.

Yup since the election one of my friends was attacked by a group celebrating. They called him a bunch of derogatory names. such as faggot.

A UPENN students added a groupme where they added all of the black students in the class of 2020 and sent out lynching schedules.

So this is our country now.

[Klingoncelt]

In 2018, Democrats are defending 23 Senate seats and Republicans only 8 (7 in red states and 1 in a swing state). In other words, good luck with taking the Senate back then. Dems had their big chance this year and they choked.

Dems gained a seat.

[Klingoncelt]

As an outsider, it looks like Trump was the better choice because he seems the less encline to go to war, now of course, this could be false, but i'd like to have your opinion about it, do you think Hillary would have meant some kind of new world war ?

We're far more likely to go to war with Trump at the helm.

[Cryptonic]

We're far more likely to go to war with Trump at the helm.

Hard to say. Hillary has started wars, Trump has never had the chance.

[Klingoncelt]

The gay marriage laws can be eroded just like abortion rights.

For example, a stat can pass a law stating that all engaged couple must go through marriage counseling. On paper that's not the worst idea, but it won't be equal in practice. Gay couples can be tagged for further "counseling", since lawmakers insist that it's possible to pray away the gay. Should the praying away not work, then they don't get their graduation certificate, therefore they can't get a marriage license.

Think that won't happen?

It will.

[Klingoncelt]

Women, non-white women, non xtian women, bi/lesbian women, poor women, ALL women are at high risk for assaults and discrimination.

[thedougler]

We can agree to disagree. I wish for gays, lesbians and bisexuals to be free to publicly practice their lifestyle without molestation from the majority, but that does not extend to so called "marriage equality". Marriage as recognized by the state should promote child rearing and family formation. And no, don't tread the example of childless hetero couples here, because I agree the state has no business incentivizing their marriage through tax policy. I think tax deductions should only come for married couples WITH children. If the gays want to found their own sects and religions to recognize their marriage that's fine, but I don't think the state has any business doing so and don't ask MY church to do it.

I wasn't quite so radicalized on this issue a few years back, but the wedding cake baker controversy, the Brendan Eich purge, and all the media fawning over "Caitlyn" Jenner have really hardened my views against the current crop of activists. It's a shame because I know a lot of them have had to live through ACTUAL persecution 40+ years ago yet can still get along quite well with the hetero 99%.

[Klingoncelt]

So you feel that you have the right to decide for others, based on completely dishonest talking points.

Congratulations on your candidate's win, Deplorable.

I hope you enjoy the Amerikkka you're creating.

[thedougler]

So you feel that you have the right to decide for others, based on completely dishonest talking points.

Congratulations on your candidate's win, Deplorable.

I hope you enjoy the Amerikkka you're creating.

Yes? All politics is deciding for others to one extent or another. IDK what about my talking points seems dishonest, but to be honest with you I've taken far more flak here for honestly stating my views than you have. In case you haven't noticed, being anti-gay marriage in 2016 kind of makes you a pariah, and people have lost jobs and been sued for saying less than I have.

And the whole "deplorable" comment really encapsulates why Trump won. Flyover country is sick of the constant derision from out of touch urbanites and has finally staged its coup. The way people in Cali and NYC today talk about the rural white underclass is almost as bad as blacks under Jim Crow, but also tinged with a classist undercurrent.

[BananaCucho]

Yes? All politics is deciding for others to one extent or another. IDK what about my talking points seems dishonest, but to be honest with you I've taken far more flak here for honestly stating my views than you have. In case you haven't noticed, being anti-gay marriage in 2016 kind of makes you a pariah, and people have lost jobs and been sued for saying less than I have.

And the whole "deplorable" comment really encapsulates why Trump won. Flyover country is sick of the constant derision from out of touch urbanites and has finally staged its coup. The way people in Cali and NYC today talk about the rural white underclass is almost as bad as blacks under Jim Crow, but also tinged with a classist undercurrent.

You just compared white struggles to what blacks went through under Jim Crow. Really? Holy shit.

[Mateo]

Yes? All politics is deciding for others to one extent or another. IDK what about my talking points seems dishonest, but to be honest with you I've taken far more flak here for honestly stating my views than you have. In case you haven't noticed, being anti-gay marriage in 2016 kind of makes you a pariah, and people have lost jobs and been sued for saying less than I have.

And the whole "deplorable" comment really encapsulates why Trump won. Flyover country is sick of the constant derision from out of touch urbanites and has finally staged its coup. The way people in Cali and NYC today talk about the rural white underclass is almost as bad as blacks under Jim Crow, but also tinged with a classist undercurrent.

Aww I'm so sorry your wittle feelings got hurt, it must be sooo difficult being a white hetero male with an archaic opinion in 2016.

Ffs you people have persecuted everyone for centuries, then when the chickens come home to roost you cry like little bitches.

[PowersThatBe]

We can agree to disagree. I wish for gays, lesbians and bisexuals to be free to publicly practice their lifestyle without molestation from the majority, but that does not extend to so called "marriage equality". Marriage as recognized by the state should promote child rearing and family formation. And no, don't tread the example of childless hetero couples here, because I agree the state has no business incentivizing their marriage through tax policy. I think tax deductions should only come for married couples WITH children. If the gays want to found their own sects and religions to recognize their marriage that's fine, but I don't think the state has any business doing so and don't ask MY church to do it.

I wasn't quite so radicalized on this issue a few years back, but the wedding cake baker controversy, the Brendan Eich purge, and all the media fawning over "Caitlyn" Jenner have really hardened my views against the current crop of activists. It's a shame because I know a lot of them have had to live through ACTUAL persecution 40+ years ago yet can still get along quite well with the hetero 99%.

Except you're wrong. And plenty of gay couples adopt children or go through surrogacy.

See Matt Dallas and Blu Hamilton: Married gay couple who adopted a child and live is Arizona. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq1iajRFbMs

Your points are stupid and invalid.

Also, according to a study done. As it stands now, gays are less likely than straights to get divorced. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6328102.html

And your point about gays not wanting to be together is completely false. In fact most gay couples were together for 10 or 15 years before marriage equality was even a dream. Doug, it's ok to have a dissimilar opinion, but don't state retarded ass shit you made up.

https://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...what_they.html

https://www.queerty.com/monogamy-mak...finds-20160922

[Orpz]

And the whole "deplorable" comment really encapsulates why Trump won. Flyover country is sick of the constant derision from out of touch urbanites and has finally staged its coup. The way people in Cali and NYC today talk about the rural white underclass is almost as bad as blacks under Jim Crow, but also tinged with a classist undercurrent.

Not really, Trump got less votes than 2004 Bush.

[PowersThatBe]

Not really, Trump got less votes than 2004 Bush.

The real problem was that both candidates sucked so much that people voted for Gary Johnson or wrote in bullshit.

Also, a large number of people stayed home because the "polls" showed Hillary winning comfortably. News Media has been talking about their mistakes the past couple of days and how they got it way wrong.

[BananaCucho]

The real problem was that both candidates sucked so much that people voted for Gary Johnson or wrote in bullshit.

Also, a large number of people stayed home because the "polls" showed Hillary winning comfortably. News Media has been talking about their mistakes the past couple of days and how they got it way wrong.

Gary Johnson only got 3% of the votes. Jill Stein only 1%. A lot of people polled said they were going to vote for them but in reality didn't. They threw their votes for Hillary or Trump.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Aww I'm so sorry your wittle feelings got hurt, it must be sooo difficult being a white hetero male with an archaic opinion in 2016.

Ffs you people have persecuted everyone for centuries, then when the chickens come home to roost you cry like little bitches.

I think his point was that in today's pathetic PC world if you say almost anything everyone instantly gets offended because it does not fit their views that nobody cares about.

[PowersThatBe]

Gary Johnson only got 3% of the votes. Jill Stein only 1%. A lot of people polled said they were going to vote for them but in reality didn't. They threw their votes for Hillary or Trump.

You need to look at state by state data. In some cases Johnson got like 10k to 60k votes. Trump only beat hillary by like 10 to 45k votes. Gary Johnson leeching votes really really hurt Clinton.

[oops_ur_dead]

I think his point was that in today's pathetic PC world if you say almost anything everyone instantly gets offended because it does not fit their views that nobody cares about.

You realize both conservatives and liberals are guilty of that? Just look at how butthurt conservatives get if you say anything against the military, or if you say white people have done some pretty shitty stuff. Everyone gets offended at stupid shit.

[Mateo]

I think his point was that in today's pathetic PC world if you say almost anything everyone instantly gets offended because it does not fit their views that nobody cares about.

and i think my point was the pathetic hypocrisy of saying offensive shit then getting butthurt when called out for it.

you see, i think you should kill yourself, but im not gonna get offended when im infracted for it, cuz thats just stupid

[PowersThatBe]

@BananaCucho -- for example look at Florida.

100% reporting
Votes

Donald Trump
Republican Party
49%
4,605,515

Hillary Clinton
Democratic Party
48%
4,485,745

Gary Johnson
Libertarian Party
2%
206,007

Jill Stein
Green Party
0.7%
64,019

Hillary probably would have won that state had johnson and stein not pulled almost 300k votes.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

and i think my point was the pathetic hypocrisy of saying offensive shit then getting butthurt when called out for it.

you see, i think you should kill yourself, but im not gonna get offended when im infracted for it, cuz thats just stupid

dad of the year award~

[PowersThatBe]

Johnson and Stein together got 5,438,247 votes. if you divide their combined votes together and assume majority of them go to Hillary. That's an extra 108,764.94 votes. She lost many key states by wayyyyyy less than that.

I'd go state by state but I'm too lazy to extrapolate that data.

Nevermind, found a table. You can see. In key states, Johnson leeched the all to important votes.

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/d...&submit=Submit

Right hand side shows you how many votes each candidate got per state.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

You realize both conservatives and liberals are guilty of that? Just look at how butthurt conservatives get if you say anything against the military, or if you say white people have done some pretty shitty stuff. Everyone gets offended at stupid shit.

Yeah I agree, I was just trying to point out how silly we have gotten with the pitchforking and getting people fired over social media posts that are not bad.

[Mateo]

dad of the year award~

agreed. maybe if your dad hadnt been such a mild mannered faggot he coulda raised a son that didnt let a chick trigger him into threatening her kids.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

agreed. maybe if your dad hadnt been such a mild mannered faggot he coulda raised a son that didnt let a chick trigger him into threatening her kids.

Sorry he was too busy making billions of dollars. You might want to place the blame on my mother for that one....

[Brendan]

Sorry he was too busy making billions of dollars. You might want to place the blame on my mother for that one....

link

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

link

zelda.

[BananaCucho]

@BananaCucho -- for example look at Florida.

100% reporting
Votes

Donald Trump
Republican Party
49%
4,605,515

Hillary Clinton
Democratic Party
48%
4,485,745

Gary Johnson
Libertarian Party
2%
206,007

Jill Stein
Green Party
0.7%
64,019

Hillary probably would have won that state had johnson and stein not pulled almost 300k votes.

Stop blaming third parties. I voted for Hillary in the end but she was a shit candidate.

[oops_ur_dead]

Johnson and Stein together got 5,438,247 votes. if you divide their combined votes together and assume majority of them go to Hillary. That's an extra 108,764.94 votes. She lost many key states by wayyyyyy less than that.

I'd go state by state but I'm too lazy to extrapolate that data.

Nevermind, found a table. You can see. In key states, Johnson leeched the all to important votes.

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/d...&submit=Submit

Right hand side shows you how many votes each candidate got per state.

Why are you assuming third parties only pulled votes from Hillary? I imagine Johnson voters would have been more likely to vote for Trump than Hillary, and he got many more votes than Stein.

[Mateo]

Sorry he was too busy making billions of dollars. You might want to place the blame on my mother for that one....

nah, i blame him for not being around and teaching u how to be a man. i blame ur mom for not getting an abortion.

[BananaCucho]

I like this Mateo guy

[DarknessB]

Why are you assuming third parties only pulled votes from Hillary? I imagine Johnson voters would have been more likely to vote for Trump than Hillary, and he got many more votes than Stein.

This. Libertarians tend to have more in common with Republicans than Democrats ideologically speaking. The party ticket also consisted of two Republican governors (Johnson and Weld), which further bolsters the theory that more votes were pulled from Trump than from Clinton.

[BananaCucho]

I know a ton of people in Jill Steins dank meme stash that preferred Trump to Hillary. She's just not very liked at all.

[PowersThatBe]

Why are you assuming third parties only pulled votes from Hillary? I imagine Johnson voters would have been more likely to vote for Trump than Hillary, and he got many more votes than Stein.

I don't know. I mean, if you look at his policies.

Pro weed, pro choice, pro gay rights, anti interventionist.

His economic policies were probably more closer to republicans, but really, he probably pulled more Hillary supports in the long run.

[PowersThatBe]

Stop blaming third parties. I voted for Hillary in the end but she was a shit candidate.

Of course she was a shit candidate. But I voted for her too. Doesn't mean it's not possible that 3rd party candidate had an effect on the election. I don't blame him for running, I blame Hillary and her people for running knowing she was such a controversial choice.

[Brendan]

libertarians can lean either way, it's a super broad platform.

zelda.

ur japanese?

[Mateo]

This. Libertarians tend to have more in common with Republicans than Democrats ideologically speaking. The party ticket also consisted of two Republican governors (Johnson and Weld), which further bolsters the theory that more votes were pulled from Trump than from Clinton.

I don't know. I mean, if you look at his policies.

Pro weed, pro choice, pro gay rights, anti interventionist.

His economic policies were probably more closer to republicans, but really, he probably pulled more Hillary supports in the long run.

I agree with Powers, Trump might have been the repub nominee but his policies are more like national socialism (both with and without nazi connotations). Johnson was the protest vote for those that couldnt stand Hillary but couldnt vote for a fascist.

[Yukitaka Oni]

libertarians can lean either way, it's a super broad platform.



ur japanese?

I'm communist v(x.o(<