S-FM 285: High Noon At The Redwood Saloon

[naz]

Hi I’m town
i feel like this entire argument is completely bullshit and so don’t understand why people are pushing it
lile Aamirus v Wiisp reads TvT, aamirus would not push Wiisp rn as scum cuz I don’t see the benefit
I think my reads might be wrong somewhere since I’m reading a lot of players as town. Also @Wiisp , it’s quite the opposite, I respect your town game and I am actually in your pocket, not there other way around
​and it’s also because this way, you’re less likely to be a dick to me

i said aamirus and kenny, not aamirus and wiisp so no wonder you think my argument for a different combo is bs?
also quit bein such a baby mag lol with that tiny text

[naz]

bt anyway ur prob town today I'm actually gonna move my vote to

-vote huey the long

since i don't remember anything they've said
hopefully i can be on my computer later and do some ISOs.
is eod today........,,,,,,

[naz]

EOD right before my cello lesson i should be around!!

[Ganelon]

i said aamirus and kenny, not aamirus and wiisp so no wonder you think my argument for a different combo is bs?
also quit bein such a baby mag lol with that tiny text

I wasn’t talking about your argument specifically, but in general

[Scvmurderer]

aamirus - jane goodman; flynn cheated on her with her mother; cousin named jack in the game

yagami - bounty hunter and hunting ellie moon

kenny - father adams; asks if anybody knows anything about a bank

zergsoup - sarah; constantly asking people to drink with him; says he needs to make friends; might win at cards later if he gets some drinks into his partners here; there is a wanted poster on the bank with a handsome man on it

wiisp - fern; a loner; says he has somebody mentioned in his text that he thinks is scum; also something about people riding in on horses being possibly evil but he doesn't care;

scvmurderer - elizabeth landry; apparently lesbian with mr. moon's wife

nightmarefriend - ralph flynn; claims to be good with a bow and arrow and to know about bank robberies through law enforcement friend; claims to be a doctor that can become a bodyguard after the first heal;

Magoroth - Tom Cartwright but actually some 3 letter british name similar to that. Says the bank has been robbed already. Says he only has his own name in his role card

huey the long - says he's the best hick from louisiana

frinckles - senor sito. is macho. wants to build a house and has respect for the dead. no other names in his rolecard

marsh - mentions his gun; mentions recent events; asks about something dangerous happening here; says something may blow up; wants to see owner of saloon because of rumors; said he knew nothing about bank robberies; said he heard 2 people talking about fireworks;

naz - says she has scv's name in her flavor; apparently came to the saloon to meet scv but she's a man so not scv's type

distorted - no posts so far




If you won't claim your name, you're probably on a wanted poster is me guess @ everyone

Ill add that im the barmaiden of this fine saloon and not impressed with the patrons constant advances

[Frinckles]

Not sure if yours is a real vote or why but;

-He never substantiated or gave a reason for voting me, twice now I believe.
-Was extremely selective with forming the earliest game roads, making sure to avoid both you and SCVmurderer specifically.
-He fillered through the halfway point of today.
-Has buddied up with almost any generally agreed upon town read.

-vote magoroth

There is one other thing I'll add in once I get to my computer, I'm on mobile atm.

[Ganelon]

@Frinckles have you played before? You seem like you know your shit

[Frinckles]

Is that why your still voting me? Did I come on too strongly?
;)
Also, you know Blink was just murdered right?

[Frinckles]

@Frinckles have you played before? You seem like you know your shit

I've been practicing on another shit website that won't be named. 《:

[Ganelon]

Not sure if yours is a real vote or why but;

-He never substantiated or gave a reason for voting me, twice now I believe.
-Was extremely selective with forming the earliest game roads, making sure to avoid both you and SCVmurderer specifically.
-He fillered through the halfway point of today.
-Has buddied up with almost any generally agreed upon town read.

-vote magoroth

There is one other thing I'll add in once I get to my computer, I'm on mobile atm.

Kek now the previous post is gonna look scummy af
what do you mean selective? I’m not sure gonna you mean by that
yes I have fillered through because I haven’t seen anything noteworthy or scum indicative, apart from some pretty weak things
who did I buddy with, apart from Wiisp? I wouldn’t call Wiisp a ‘generally agreed upon’ townread.

[Wiisp]

@naz
well that was rood, ill just take a step away from the game for now
less then 12 hours left and we still have only one wagon past L6

the only thing that I am a little lost on is if Mag/Frinckles are scum theater
they are both varying levels of wolfy, and I have to agree with #856

[Wiisp]

List of people I will vote today:
Mag/Frin

List of people I will not vote today:
Everyone else

[Wiisp]

@Magoroth
I'm not a bad person, mediocrity just rustles my jimmies

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Quick pop-in before I go away for hours.

meanies

Aw

@Marshmallow Marshall is blinkskater town?

Host of this kind of setup is always scum

You really think Wiisp is town? Why? Did you take the rolecard suddenly appeared content thing into account?

[Wiisp]

I also hope I dont have to argue on why #850 is arguely the most wolfy post this game

[Wiisp]

-vote Magoroth

[Wiisp]

@Distorted @naz
neither of the people you are voting are getting lynched today, I suggest you move your votes

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@aamirus
Did you form any townreads from literally anything other than flavor and names? Who are they and what did you like about them?
I'm getting the impression you didn't from what you've been posting pretty much exactly since the moment I called you town and convinced Wiisp of that as well.

And you, Kenny, did you? I think Aamirus has been quite productive yesterday, without neglecting any of scumhunting or lore-gaming. I think you've been quite inactive past the early times? It's probably because you were sleeping lol, but still it's weird you accuse the most active player yet of not being productive enough.... I still trust you, but I find that strange. Minus some trust there.

[Kenny]

And you, Kenny, did you? I think Aamirus has been quite productive yesterday, without neglecting any of scumhunting or lore-gaming. I think you've been quite inactive past the early times? It's probably because you were sleeping lol, but still it's weird you accuse the most active player yet of not being productive enough.... I still trust you, but I find that strange. Minus some trust there.

I did, and I posted them once I was asked.
That's how I would've expected other town members to act aswell. Not forming townreads, defending that as ok play (which you are doing right now, mr scum) and then even omgus voting in order to avoid having to form townreads is scumplay.

[naz]

I wasn’t talking about your argument specifically, but in general

Then don't quote my post and write "this argument is bullshit" lol

[naz]

Ill add that im the barmaiden of this fine saloon and not impressed with the patrons constant advances

why don't u just try me on and then make up ur mind

[naz]

@Distorted @naz
neither of the people you are voting are getting lynched today, I suggest you move your votes

boi i started the mag train lol chut it
inb4 he flips town and town comes after me with pitchforks and torches

[Kenny]

The more active a player is, the more reads they should also be able to form.
Aamirus on the other hand was the #1 most active player, yet she did not form a single proper townread. No attempts at building up a towncore or the likes. Instead she was just throwing mud at everyone and writing down flavor and roles for herself.

[Kenny]

does your flavor not relate to your role at all? Because mine certainly fits with my role

Coming from a player who has been flavor hunting day 1, is this a townpost? Why and how?


That was one of the first posts that really strongly struck me as scum, so it was fairly easy to find for me right now.

[Kenny]

The blue arrow next to the name can be clicked to go directly to the part of the thread where that happened.

[Wiisp]

boi i started the mag train lol chut it
inb4 he flips town and town comes after me with pitchforks and torches

you arent now though?
well I wont at least not off that hypothetical since I can think outside of surface level reads

[Wiisp]

Coming from a player who has been flavor hunting day 1, is this a townpost? Why and how?


That was one of the first posts that really strongly struck me as scum, so it was fairly easy to find for me right now.

why does this post make or break her alignment? explain that to me

[naz]

you arent now though?
well I wont at least not off that hypothetical since I can think outside of surface level reads

I moved because for the reasons you thi k 850 is super scummy is why I think he will flip town (maybe) because he does all that shit as town - posting nonsense & sucking up to people
I'm surprised he hasn't pinged distorted more so he could be pocketed 🤔 now that I think of it, I don't know if I've seen Mag as scum

[Wiisp]

so 3 people that are spewed town if Magoroth flips wolf
Nas/Me/Aamirus

[Kenny]

why does this post make or break her alignment? explain that to me

It's part of my macro read.
A post that, like you say, makes or breaks her alignment, is the one she put up before I voted her.
Also doubt that town Wiisp would now try to limit my read to single posts, after saying just a few posts earlier how much more important the macro read is here. But go on.

[Kenny]

why does this post make or break her alignment? explain that to me

You agree that it's never a townpost in that context though, right?

[Wiisp]

It's part of my macro read.
A post that, like you say, makes or breaks her alignment, is the one she put up before I voted her.
Also doubt that town Wiisp would now try to limit my read to single posts, after saying just a few posts earlier how much more important the macro read is here. But go on.

what exactly am I limiting? no matter the answer you give me, I am never voting Aamirus today

You agree that it's never a townpost in that context though, right?

it doesn't rub me either way to be honest, its quite NAI

[Kenny]

what exactly am I limiting? no matter the answer you give me, I am never voting Aamirus today


it doesn't rub me either way to be honest, its quite NAI

A player hunting for flavor, saying she does that because her own flavor hints of her role (which btw can never happen to citizens, as you know) is NAI. That's not a common read of that action, at all, on any site, but you're god here, ok.

[Frinckles]

I think I've read enough to confirm my theory so It's Señor Sito's flavor time -- let's start off with this:

@naz
less then 12 hours left and we still have only one wagon past L6

Not familiar with FM's but if the progression of the game seemed slow, it's likely due to some intrinsic motives between our characters that only we are aware of. Some players have been more reclusive when it comes to their role cards and I have a feeling there maybe a reason for it. At the same time, some players have hinted significantly that there might be some interaction associated with them and someone else. With themes like love, loneliness, attractiveness and infidelity scattered through our rolecards (and @Wiisp may disagree) it's not unreasonable to suggest inter-connectivity.

Are you even town? you already basically admitted to being an executioner

Here, Aamirus herself implies that Light might have some sort of passive feature to his role card. See Ellie lynched, shoot the player named Ellie to win. Light may have a day kill ready to go at any time as soon as the name pops up, we really don't know. You may consider I'm just reading too far into it, maybe like Magoroth said, everything was randomized after the cards were given. Still, there is a lot of hesitation and a good amount of tunneling happening.

This is a Cryptonic style setup which means thats exactly how this game is going to be solved...

I currently develop the SC2Mafia Mod, I've gotten to learn about a lot of different kinds of roles. Linking players together leads to a lot of silly shit. Funny enough, two of my favorites I'd thought about adding were the Lover / Heartbreaker roles. For anyone unfamiliar, Lovers are usually connected together, but not always. If one dies, the other dies as well. Heartbreaker on the other hand will not die if the person in love with them dies.

i come to the saloon to see his character

That brings us to this. Is Naz in love with SCVmurderer? From my point of view, almost certainly. Naz has put a considerable amount of time at least hinting at this interaction for us or at least their lover. It's a dangerous strategy particularly because it gives scum the chance to eliminate two possible town members, or the ability for town to eliminate two scum. It's possible SCVmurderer is a Heartbreaker who doesn't care for Naz at all and lore may hint to that as well. A third, wacky possibility is that Naz loves SCV who loves someone else.

In short, this doesn't do a ton to help us find scum. But it might help us understand the setup and some of these impasses better.

[Ganelon]

I'm not sure I understand why my post #850 is scummy. Care to explain?

[naz]

If I'm in a lover-pair, I wasn't aware :/ blink may have used that role, as it was in the video mafia games he watched me play, but theres no way he would put more than 1 pair in the game...would he?? Lol that would be wild

[naz]

Well, I mean I guess we aren't lover pairs since scv doesn't like my advances *puts checkbook away*

[Wiisp]

A player hunting for flavor, saying she does that because her own flavor hints of her role (which btw can never happen to citizens, as you know) is NAI. That's not a common read of that action, at all, on any site, but you're god here, ok.

OMG "People flavor hunting in a flavor heavy game" ohh heavens lord no

[Kenny]

OMG "People flavor hunting in a flavor heavy game" ohh heavens lord no

Did you miss the part about the roleclaim? You're just pretending to not understand what I'm talking about, right?

[Wiisp]

Did you miss the part about the roleclaim? You're just pretending to not understand what I'm talking about, right?

explain it like I am five, or are u insisting that cause he softed a PR he has to be a wolf? I honestly dont get it

[Kenny]

Mhm ok so if Wiisp is already pretending to be dumber than he is just so he doesn't have to deal with my arguments...
@Frinckles @Magoroth what do you actually think about my points against aamirus?

[Kenny]

explain it like I am five, or are u insisting that cause he softed a PR he has to be a wolf? I honestly dont get it

Town does not aggressively claim roles while pushing others to reveal their roles in public day 1. That is not a fucking townstrat, ever.

[Kenny]

We did not even have a night yet

[Frinckles]

Kek now the previous post is gonna look scummy af
what do you mean selective? I’m not sure gonna you mean by that
yes I have fillered through because I haven’t seen anything noteworthy or scum indicative, apart from some pretty weak things
who did I buddy with, apart from Wiisp? I wouldn’t call Wiisp a ‘generally agreed upon’ townread.

-You still haven't (for the third time now!) explained why your vote is and was placed on me.
-I'm cool with fillering as a strategy sometimes, but you fillered straight through key interactions that were taking place between Kenny and Aamirus. -- Really, none of that made you think?
-You have townread/buddied: Wiisp + Aamirus (#850 ) Wiisp again (#797 ) MM in (#798 ) SCV in (#378 ) Kenny (#350 ) Naz (#372 ) Zerg + Naz + Wiisp in (#188 ) :: SO BASICALLY A LOT OF PEOPLE. This is the most ironic shit ever because you were especially wary of scum buddying up.
-You admitted to having weird interactions early on. By selective I mean you went gung-ho and specifically left out Naz and SCVmurderer's votes early on. The earliest reads we can reference for the rest of the game, and you shaped them how you wanted them to be seen.

Now, I haven't played with you before but you're not playing like a Mafia member in my opinion. You're playing like somebody who doesn't want to be seen or mentioned but without coasting. A third party most likely, but there is absolutely no way I read you as town. You knew you needed to put out a scum read or join a brain-dead wagon on someone and Wiisp gave you that opportunity.

I'll post my tier list for SR/TR's in a bit, but I'm leaving my vote here for now.

P.S. I appreciate the compliment. <3 I won't count it as buddying up /w me.

[Wiisp]

-vote Frinckles

[Wiisp]

so this is about him claiming? I dont get it? we still live in the shallow world where everything is set in stone?
Aamirus who is a good wolf in my opinion, softs that he is a PR because derp? If its as you say, its such an obvious wolf tell
Why does he do it here?

no thanks

[Kenny]

so this is about him claiming? I dont get it? we still live in the shallow world where everything is set in stone?
Aamirus who is a good wolf in my opinion, softs that he is a PR because derp? If its as you say, its such an obvious wolf tell
Why does he do it here?

no thanks

So because she's a good wolf, the usual obvious scumtell becomes a towntell?
Is that what you're saying?

[Wiisp]

So because she's a good wolf, the usual obvious scumtell becomes a towntell?
Is that what you're saying?

that isnt a scum tell, I am mocking you, there is context to everything and I dont live in the same shallow world you live in

[Kenny]

Aamirus has been careless as fuck, and is top poster. And you actually refuse to look at slips from a slot like that one?

[Frinckles]

Mhm ok so if Wiisp is already pretending to be dumber than he is just so he doesn't have to deal with my arguments...
@Frinckles @Magoroth what do you actually think about my points against aamirus?

I think @aamirus has been taking almost everyone with a huge spoon-full of skepticism / doubt. And honestly she's bounced back and forth on my radar at least 3 times this game: To be honest, when she bluffed about being a 'Vote-Jester' I was not even going to be surprised.

okay but like I feel like half the lobby hasn't done anything to make themselves look towny. that's why I am confused why you single him out specifically

She even says how skeptical she is of everyone here. Does being a top poster make her innately town? No (but I appreciate the participation.) Do I think she's scum, not necessarily. I do think she needs to home-in on something of substance soon to be taken more seriously as a town member, however.