S-FM 211 : Three Foes and a Stranger

[Drizzt]

-vote Snorlax

[SecondLynch]

2.) is not a scum-tell, and I will gladly say this right now. Everyone does it, and the only reason I brought it up is because NU triggers me with this word.

The opinion itself is what I said. "Insecure town or scum trying to improve" if I haven't heard enough from Eggy to make a conclusion then that is that.

I can understand my reactions with others are limited, but to say I rarely interact is not at all true. When I'm around i talk to whoever is there, or if someone directs comments to me.

To comment on me mostly talking to NU, in this particular time I am usually messaging inbetween classes, so if somebody directs things at me I will have that take priority with my limited time. I can add on that other parts of the day are usually more flexible, but Monday's are my more busy day so I can see why I have not actively participated.

Why I haven't voted. I don't know why I need to explain it as it is not necessary right now, but because I haven't been around enough to be able to push someone. I've done this before, and I know I've said this before, so sometimes I do not have enough time to place my vote and follow through with it. It's a pressure vote so I feel that I should be pressuring with it. Otherwise, no.

This is where I lose you. I will admit that I change words in phrases, whether he specifically said I was scum, or something very similar, I might not use the same wording. Shady is an example of that too where he doesn't specifically use shady but he has other word choices that are relatable to it.

If I think it was an attack, then I will say that. One of you, I don't care which, made an early leap on me based off of something I have argued isn't the scum like thing to do. Why does that bother me? Because it seems too oppourtunistic and is a really poorly justified accusation on me.

I mean, I realize you spent an entire paragraph telling me how I throw shade, but you honestly don't need to call me trash.

So, I will say that my wording is not always perfect, and I have been lynched before as town by saying this. Arguably, I don't make this many "errors" when I am scum and I'm almost never accurately read as scum when I am. Whether this is your level of me "slipping" if I was scum I am a lot more careful with my wording then I am when I'm town. Why? Because I don't care.

I am sorry I just keep rambling on, but calling me self-concerned and saying its a scum thing is wrong. Anyone following that logic has hit their head too many times because that doesn't classify me as scum. I am self-concerned as town all the time, which relates to right now.

First off, it's me, secondpassing, who made that case against you.

Other than that, I'm having a hard time responding to this because.. wow.
You basically just claimed that everything I've said is true, but it doesn't make you scum.

Don't take that trash thing personally, it's just the role you rolled.

[Drizzt]

1) Snorlax is going for the easiest lynches, basically the new players. Asserting a false sense of authority to create narrative based on appeal to experience. Here are two examples.

[spoiler]

Drizzt/ Quick/ Char Char or dezkai for Mafia. (not because I have any read on the lurkers, but because nobody else is really giving me Mafia vibes so I suspect there are only two active Mafia)

Was thinking about this, but decided that neutral-hunting only helps the Mafia know who to avoid, so if I have any thoughts on who the Neutral could be, I'm with-holding my thoughts on them for now for that reason.

What about you?

For real though, I'd love to hear some thoughts on how Drizzt's posts make sense for town to make. I get that he's new or playing the new card or what the fuck ever, but newb!town posts still have town motivation in them so if people who are defending him/ are not sure about him want to read through the five or so posts he made and tell me how they can come from town, I'd like to hear it.

I'd prefer Drizzt to do it himself, of course, but I'll take spokespeople too.

[/spoiler]

2) After being confronted by Yuki with respect to Snorlax's large net cast on us noobs, Snorkax backs off on those that he can while still being able to continue biting on me and pushing me through to a potential mislynch:

[spoiler]

I'm not saying that we should lynch dezkai/ Char Char. I'm saying that there is probably a Mafia among them. (based on my reads)

I have scum-reads and RLVG has two replacements so no way am I taking a shot in the dark when we can just wait until Day 2 for MattZed/ Jealous to play.

Fair enough. This seems in line with your town play from what I recall of the last two games. I'm not considering your strategy particularly AI though for the sole reason that I haven't seen you roll scum in a long time and don't know wherever you'd use it as scum or not.

But for now, you can go in the town pile.

[/spoiler]

3) I've noticed something odd about Snorlax's posting but I wasn't sure what it was. I was already annoyed at Snorlax's pushing on me, and other noobs, but that's not exactly it. It's not even the authoritarian way Snorlax is approaching the thread. It's Snorlax's dissociated perspective that ultimately leads me to voting for Snorlax.

Obviously if a TPR has a damning night result, then we should use that. I am saying that we should not sit around and wait for one to happen, but if you agree on that point then I am satisfied.

(although if a Sheriff finds a Mafia on Night 1, they shouldn't reveal it first thing on Day 2. Trying to get the mafia lynched without revealing > revealing straight away because that yields more information about who defends the mafia. It also means the mafia are less likely to catch onto the person being Sheriff and thus cannot counter the Sheriff with their Framer/ Consort/ whatever as easily)

Site is slow activity-wise. School has just started and a lot of the players here are low-posters. (which is why you have to work to analyse what they do post) I am most likely going to be the most active player in the game.

One problem there - saying you only vote for pressure nullifies the pressure that you can apply with your vote ;p

When discussing with Stereo, I see a lot of Information Instead Of Analysis from an authoritarian perspective that doesn't come from Snorlax's point of view, rather it's more of a point of view from some third party talking cloud hovering above.

From a separate perspective, I see Snorlax hunting for Stereo's role in this quote.

4) I'm going to be blunt. Stereo is one of my strongest, if not the strongest town read I have at the moment. Almost entirely based on his initial no-lynch comments in favor of night actions. Protectives should be on Stereo tonight. If I'm mislynched, investigatives and town killing should be on Snorkax tonight.

5) How was that for D1 reads and analysis?

[Yukitaka Oni]

1) Snorlax is going for the easiest lynches, basically the new players. Asserting a false sense of authority to create narrative based on appeal to experience. Here are two examples.

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

2) After being confronted by Yuki with respect to Snorlax's large net cast on us noobs, Snorkax backs off on those that he can while still being able to continue biting on me and pushing me through to a potential mislynch:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

3) I've noticed something odd about Snorlax's posting but I wasn't sure what it was. I was already annoyed at Snorlax's pushing on me, and other noobs, but that's not exactly it. It's not even the authoritarian way Snorlax is approaching the thread. It's Snorlax's dissociated perspective that ultimately leads me to voting for Snorlax.



When discussing with Stereo, I see a lot of Information Instead Of Analysis from an authoritarian perspective that doesn't come from Snorlax's point of view, rather it's more of a point of view from some third party talking cloud hovering above.

From a separate perspective, I see Snorlax hunting for Stereo's role in this quote.

4) I'm going to be blunt. Stereo is one of my strongest, if not the strongest town read I have at the moment. Almost entirely based on his initial no-lynch comments in favor of night actions. Protectives should be on Stereo tonight. If I'm mislynched, investigatives and town killing should be on Snorkax tonight.

5) How was that for D1 reads and analysis?

Eh.....this is getting hard to wait until 2 group appear........seem like I can't anything to delay your lynch train.....
And by the way. You failed spolier

[Eggy]

@Eggy

what?

[Eggy]

Yes good sir, I am BrockSamson on the mod. As to quick and being defensive, I would only say that being overly defensive in respect to the mod is usually an indication that the player is inexperienced or has something to hide. Whether or not that is true in FM is unknown to me.

brocksamson is the best venture bros character lol

[Eggy]

didnt catch up and am not going to tonight im exhausted and have school early tmrw. ill try to catch up tnrw afternoon

[Drizzt]

I realize that a combination of directly defying thread momentum by voting and pushing Snorlax hard, while also being primed for a noob mislynch puts me in a position where I have to be very clear.

Let me make myself abundantly clear:

1) When being pressured I claimed citizen, not some power role. If I were Mafia, correct play would be to claim Sheriff or a similar powerful role to grant me an extra day and night regardless of how bad I look in the thread to everyone else. I didn't do this for a few reasons, namely being: I'M NOT FUCKING MAFIA!!!! I also didn't want to draw night protection when I'm just a citizen. From a Mafia point of view, claiming citizen on day 1 is perhaps the most idiotic thing possible. I'm not an idiot.

2) I claimed a town role. I'm approaching the thread by declaring town alignment. This means if I were neutral or Mafia, I'd potentially attract night kills from either alignment. Again, this wouldn't make sense to freely volunteer this information were I any non-town alignment.

3) I'm pushing one of the most active, authoritarian players in the game so far. If I were any non-town role looking to survive, this would be a beyond stupid play to make. I'm pushing Snorlax because, again, I'm town and I believe Snorlax is not town.

4) I'm new to forum Mafia. I was very briefly a keeper and secret police for the SC2 variant. Look me up, I'm Brock Sampson. I'm being set up as an easy mislynch.

5) I'd like to ask SecondLynch's opinion on Snorlax in particular. It seemed they were disagreeing earlier but there was no real pushback. SecondLynch, where do you stand on Snorlax now?

[SecondLynch]

what?

Exactly.

[Drizzt]

Eh.....this is getting hard to wait until 2 group appear........seem like I can't anything to delay your lynch train.....
And by the way. You failed spolier

Engage me on my content I've just provided. I just gave you my logical progressions. You're not even approaching me to determine my alignment or show your own logical progressions. All you're doing is fluff posting and supporting Snorlax/Calix for... Reasons?

E.g.

Although I wouldn't recommend voting (Calix disguise) tho

Tell me what about my posts you agree with AND disagree with and why? While you're at it, give me your town analysis on Snorlax.

Stop being a worthless fluff poster please. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Prove you actually care about determining alignments.

[Drizzt]

[Yukitaka Oni]

Engage me on my content I've just provided. I just gave you my logical progressions. You're not even approaching me to determine my alignment or show your own logical progressions. All you're doing is fluff posting and supporting Snorlax/Calix for... Reasons?

E.g.



Tell me what about my posts you agree with AND disagree with and why? While you're at it, give me your town analysis on Snorlax.

Stop being a worthless fluff poster please. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Prove you actually care about determining alignments.

Almost no chance you could win Calix (disguise) seriously. You claim newbie, but Calix is a absolute god-tier veteran. I suggest you chill Calix(disguise) rather than face-to-face.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Engage me on my content I've just provided. I just gave you my logical progressions. You're not even approaching me to determine my alignment or show your own logical progressions. All you're doing is fluff posting and supporting Snorlax/Calix for... Reasons?

E.g.



Tell me what about my posts you agree with AND disagree with and why? While you're at it, give me your town analysis on Snorlax.

Stop being a worthless fluff poster please. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Prove you actually care about determining alignments.

Well about Calix(disguise) I really can't trust any smurf around here, but I wouldn't underestimate them as well. Changing name on the internet can make you feel like you're completely talking to a stranger even how much you obviously know them.

[SecondLynch]

I realize that a combination of directly defying thread momentum by voting and pushing Snorlax hard, while also being primed for a noob mislynch puts me in a position where I have to be very clear.

See, this is what we wanted you to be doing from the get-go: pushing your reads, even if they are wrong and go against thread consensus.

You were not being “primed for a noob mislynch”. No, you were being scum-read for playing the noob card from your first post which means you are marginalizing everything you’ll be posting from the very beginning. As Calix has explained, this is a very scum-typical thing to do. I did the exact same thing the first time I rolled scum

You still haven’t explained why you did it.

Let me make myself abundantly clear:

1) When being pressured I claimed citizen, not some power role. If I were Mafia, correct play would be to claim Sheriff or a similar powerful role to grant me an extra day and night regardless of how bad I look in the thread to everyone else. I didn't do this for a few reasons, namely being: I'M NOT FUCKING MAFIA!!!! I also didn't want to draw night protection when I'm just a citizen. From a Mafia point of view, claiming citizen on day 1 is perhaps the most idiotic thing possible. I'm not an idiot.

You make no point here -- we reproach you of claiming in the context that you claimed, not of claiming X role. The role doesn’t matter. (And it is wrong to say that claiming sheriff is a better claim) You had no reason to role-claim at L-6. You were under very little pressure -- what a town would’ve done is debunk the points Snorlax made against you instead of ignoring them and claiming.

You being so careless about your role-claim means one of two things:

You do not care about the repercussions your claim has on town because you are not citizen. You are either a mafia or a neutral and this role claim is convenient to you because that would explain why you are not being NKed. (Scum wouldn’t target citizens unless it’s a very good player) As sheriff, you would be expected to start the day with your check, and that can be disturbing. ie. an escort claims roleblocking you and you somehow still have a check. All in all, a citizen claim was the best scum-claim you could’ve made fmpov.
You are oblivious to what you just did and are citizen. You do not realize that your claim is essentially narrowing down scum’s TPR hunting to 9 players from 10 players. You are not playing your meatshield role the way you should be.

2) I claimed a town role. I'm approaching the thread by declaring town alignment. This means if I were neutral or Mafia, I'd potentially attract night kills from either alignment. Again, this wouldn't make sense to freely volunteer this information were I any non-town alignment.

I don’t see why anyone would NOT claim a town role…

And if you claimed mafia, you wouldn’t live to the night. Even if you did, you would still be a NK target for town.

Shitty argument all around.

3) I'm pushing one of the most active, authoritarian players in the game so far. If I were any non-town role looking to survive, this would be a beyond stupid play to make. I'm pushing Snorlax because, again, I'm town and I believe Snorlax is not town.

You saying that you are pushing one of the most vocal players is a town-tell just nullifies your whole point and undermines your case because you are giving town your intentions for pushing Calix. Plus, it’s WIFOM.

4) I'm new to forum Mafia. I was very briefly a keeper and secret police for the SC2 variant. Look me up, I'm Brock Sampson. I'm being set up as an easy mislynch.

What does this have to do with your play this game?

5) I'd like to ask SecondLynch's opinion on Snorlax in particular. It seemed they were disagreeing earlier but there was no real pushback. SecondLynch, where do you stand on Snorlax now?

As for this disagreement, I don’t think there was one? If you’re talking about her thinking that I only commented on irrelevant things, that was the start of the game. I initially had thoughts about her post to the new players, but I didn’t find it too glaring. It seems like she prepared that post in the pre-game.

Snorlax seems to be as you said, “taking authority”. To us, this is a highly pro-town move and extremely risky play [See #69] The fact that anyone, chooses to lead town to discussion should be granted with less suspicion. The town leader playstyle(?) already grants scum the opportunity to call her out on the responsibility of mislynches.

While she is abrasive, you can see that the tone she takes with many different players is purposeful— to gather information and scum hunt.

I also can’t say I can see your dissociative tone that you talk of anywhere. I’ll be more aware of it from now on though.

[SecondLynch]

didnt catch up and am not going to tonight im exhausted and have school early tmrw. ill try to catch up tnrw afternoon

Same here, dude. I've school all day tomorrow.

Honestly we should just lynch the host for starting the game on a weekday. zzz

[SecondLynch]

You being so careless about your role-claim means one of two things:

1.You do not care about the repercussions your claim has on town because you are not citizen. You are either a mafia or a neutral and this role claim is convenient to you because that would explain why you are not being NKed. (Scum wouldn’t target citizens unless it’s a very good player) As sheriff, you would be expected to start the day with your check, and that can be disturbing. ie. an escort claims roleblocking you and you somehow still have a check. All in all, a citizen claim was the best scum-claim you could’ve made fmpov.

2.You are oblivious to what you just did and are citizen. You do not realize that your claim is essentially narrowing down scum’s TPR hunting to 9 players from 10 players. You are not playing your meatshield role the way you should be.

EBWOP

[Yukitaka Oni]

Same here, dude. I've school all day tomorrow.

Honestly we should just lynch the host for starting the game on a weekday. zzz

Allahu Akbar
-Vote RLVG

[SecondLynch]

@Yukitaka Oni -- Calix is not in a disguise, lol. She is sharing an account with Iced Monopoly although the latter has not posted yet. She's not "hiding" behind a smurf, she openly says she is Calix.

@Drizzt -- What are your thoughts on Yuki and everybody's attitude towards him/her?

A) You outright assume that he is neutral -- not even weighting in the possibility that he could be scum. This is scummy af, because the only way you would know that he isn't scum is if you are scum yourself.

B) You said that you 50/50 trusted his claim, that he was either Godfather or Citizen. Now you claim that he's jester? Contradiction.

C) Why would you not want to lynch someone you "neutral-read"? Why do you assume that this neutral-read is jester? He's done nothing purposefully scummy for you to think this way.



zzz



Why is it her problem? If you are town, it is your problem too.

Also, given your claim, you should be saying the opposite...

He doesn't know what to do in the day chat? Did you just TMI the scumteam?





How about you do this yourself? Who do you think is scum and town?

Spoiler : Wait, Calix... :

You forgot

4. Go jerk off in the corner over your uselessness.

Also, he/she has not responded to the multiple questions I've directed to that slot.

Yet, despite acting scummily and fluff posting 24/7, that slot is being given a free pass by most players which makes me grow even more suspicious of it.

[Yukitaka Oni]

@Yukitaka Oni -- Calix is not in a disguise, lol. She is sharing an account with Iced Monopoly although the latter has not posted yet. She's not "hiding" behind a smurf, she openly says she is Calix.

@Drizzt -- What are your thoughts on Yuki and everybody's attitude towards him/her?





Also, he/she has not responded to the multiple questions I've directed to that slot.

Yet, despite acting scummily and fluff posting 24/7, that slot is being given a free pass by most players which makes me grow even more suspicious of it.

Coz I'm a pro null bro.

[Yukitaka Oni]

@Yukitaka Oni -- Calix is not in a disguise, lol. She is sharing an account with Iced Monopoly although the latter has not posted yet. She's not "hiding" behind a smurf, she openly says she is Calix.

@Drizzt -- What are your thoughts on Yuki and everybody's attitude towards him/her?





Also, he/she has not responded to the multiple questions I've directed to that slot.

Yet, despite acting scummily and fluff posting 24/7, that slot is being given a free pass by most players which makes me grow even more suspicious of it.

Speaking about the devil....users browsing this thread: Iced_Monopoly
Well I'll be damn....

[Yukitaka Oni]

@Yukitaka Oni -- Calix is not in a disguise, lol. She is sharing an account with Iced Monopoly although the latter has not posted yet. She's not "hiding" behind a smurf, she openly says she is Calix.

@Drizzt -- What are your thoughts on Yuki and everybody's attitude towards him/her?





Also, he/she has not responded to the multiple questions I've directed to that slot.

Yet, despite acting scummily and fluff posting 24/7, that slot is being given a free pass by most players which makes me grow even more suspicious of it.

And give prove that i have ever contributed in any game before. If not, you can't scum read me.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Yuki is my name
Never make sense is what i am

And give prove that i have ever contributed in any game before. If not, you can't scum read me.

Calix know the best

[Drizzt]

I don't think that SecondLynch and Snorkax are even attempting to approach me as a villager.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I don't think that SecondLynch and Snorkax are even attempting to approach me as a villager.

Fine by me, they never did trust anyone before anyway.

[deathworlds]

So for this setup we have a standard 13 player setup consisting of the following:

Mafia
Mafia
Mafia
Neutral
Town PR
Town PR
Town PR
Town PR
Town Random
Town Random
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

It's safe to assume that one of the Town Random is a citizen in all cases. So let's update the list.

Mafia
Mafia
Mafia
Neutral
Town PR
Town PR
Town PR
Town PR
Town Random
Town Random (Citizen)
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

That leaves us with 9 roles which are hidden to us. Let's work on the mafia first.

There are a total of 7 different mafia roles, which allows for 25 different role combinations.

Let's look at each mafia role and analyze them carefully.

Godfather: A unique "commanding" role of the mafia that shows up as town, yet has no real "power role" ability, making the Godfather only useful in gambits that require a team-member to be confirmed or semi confirmed. In the hands of an unexperienced player, the Godfather is definitely the most useless mafia role of them all.

Mafioso: I retract my previous statement, Mafioso is the most useless mafia role of them all, commands no abilities, and does not even have any form of night immunity. Any speculation that the mafia team has a Mafioso is right out, we have 4 confirmed town power roles. A mafia composition with a Mafioso on it would be next to gamebreaking.

Consort: The anti-TPR, Mafia Power Role. Consorts can effectively shut down any claimed town power role, rendering their night abilities, useless. I'm 90% sure that the mafia team has this role, as it is a staple Mafia Power role. It's the most consistent role, and because that the targets are not informed of being roleblocked, doesn't confirm the existence of a roleblocker if it doesn't hit a non feedback sensitive role. It is not stated whether that the Consort can act out the mafia night kill, is this intended? While I've got your attention, do the mafia power roles have to forsake their night action in order to act out the factional night kill?

Consigliere: Of all of the Mafia Power roles (excluding godfather), the Consigliere is the most ineffective, at least early game. While it is able to spot the sheriff and investigator roles with relative ease, it fails to confirm town power role with any of the other possible investigative pairings. Upon the death/reveal of the Neutral Role, the Consigliere's strength dramatically rises, allowing it to identify Town Power Roles with relative ease, while ignoring Citizens.

Framer: Ah the Framer, they are pretty fun to play as, however their power directly correlates with the Sheriffs and Investigators
unpredictability. Framers are in general fairly weak, because even if they get a successful result, the victim (if they are smart enough) can eventually clear themselves, or at least remove themselves from the chopping block for a while. Framers, are useless at worst, and a time waster at best.

Agent: The Agent is the second mafia investigative role. They are probably the 2nd most useful mafia role. Agents spot TPRs alongside the ability to safely and reliably spot the Serial Killer. I'm 90% sure that this role exists within the game.

Janitor: Janitors are a fucking pain in the ass, they can ruin the only confirmed information we have in this game, role flips. Janitors are by far the most disruptive role in the game.

That covers all of the Mafia roles, which means that we can further our role list!

Mafia (Agent)
Mafia (Consort)
Mafia (Not Mafioso, very low chance of second consort)
Neutral
Town PR
Town PR
Town PR
Town PR
Town Random
Town Random (Citizen)
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

I'm doubtful of a second consort because of the possibility of a Serial Killer, along with the sheer disruption that two consorts would cause. We'll cover the Neutral Role after we get done with the town rolelist

I'm going to put these roles in spoilers because the sheer size of the post will probably annoy y'all.

Spoiler : Town Roles :

Mayor: A unique "commanding" role that is used almost solely as a Confirmed Town. This role is incredibly powerful in its own right. A confirmed living town member is so useful for triangulating reads, in the hands of the right player, a Mayor can turn the tide of the game. The inclusion of a mayor would most likely signal the inclusion of a janitor, and vice versa.

Sheriff: Basic investigative role that checks for alignment. The Sheriff is as basic of a town investigative as you can get. It checks if a player is a member of the Mafia, Neutral, or Town/Godfather/Serial Killer. Sheriffs are useful in any case though, always reducing the number of suspects via process of elimination, or "catching" a suspect.

Investigator: Investigative role that I really cannot see a use for, besides disproving TPR or citizen claims.

Detective: Now this is where things get tricky, Detectives are able to track suspicious targets, used to catch killing roles and potentially a Consort in the act. Mildly useful TPR, however I would prefer a Sheriff or Lookout over it.

Lookout: By far the most useful town investigative role. Lookouts can sit on potential scum night targets and catch them in the act of killing. It's easier to predict who the mafia will kill, rather than who the mafia actually consists of. On the otherside, the Lookout may also sit on the target of a claimed TPR and confirm that they indeed targeted individual. Pretty sure that this s a role that exists in the game.

Doctor: Basic Protective role, the Doctor's goal is basically to protect the Town Leader or other TPR's through WIFOM, will the doctor heal the obvious target? Or will they heal someone else in the hopes that the mafia think that targeting the obvious target is too risky?

Escort: Protective/Investigative hybrid role that prevents Mafia Power Roles from acting, and also can out a mafia member by successfully hitting the mafia member acting out the night kill. Escort is a town powerhouse, the odds of it existing are around 50-50, considering that two roleblockers in a 13 player setup is kinda hilarious, especially considering the possibly of a Serial Killer.

Bodyguard: Basically an OP Doctor, considering a typical Doctor will get one, maybe two heals off. Bodyguard can even kill a Serial Killer, albeit at the cost of their own life. But 1 TPR for saving a townie, and killing a scum, is a good trade 100% of the time.

Bus Driver: Chaotic protective role that can redirect negative effects onto scum reads. the Bus Driver is perfectly capable of turning the tide of a game into the favor of scum or town, based on their night actions.

Vigilante: The only true offensive role that town possesses. The Vigilante can kill a target a night, and can be voted upon to target someone. Effectively doubles the towns offensive power.

Citizen: I have no need nor desire to say anything here.

Now that we have a thorough analysis of the roles and their abilities, we can now somewhat predict what the town's composition will be.

Mafia (Agent)
Mafia (Consort)
Mafia (Not Mafioso, very low chance of second consort)
Neutral
Town PR (Investigative, most likely Lookout or Sheriff)
Town PR (Escort)
Town PR (Bodyguard or Doctor)
Town PR (Wildcard, maybe mayor?)
Town Random (Wildcard)
Town Random (Citizen)
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

As for the neutral role I'm almost certain that the Survivor, Jester, Executioner roles do not exist in the game, we have 4 tprs and as a given rule, the amount of Town Power Roles must equal the amount of non scum roles. The mentioned roles are neutral benign roles, and not scum roles. That leaves us with two remaining roles vying for a single slot; the Witch, and the Serial Killer.

Only one of these roles may exist, so we'll have to look at them more in depth in order to determine which of them exist.

The Witch is a dangerous neutral scum role that has the ability to redirect their target onto the victim of their choosing. They are capable of self targets, and their targets are not informed of being witched. While a witch exists, it is imperative that no TPR claims their role, with the exception of a bus driver, which can protect himself.

The Serial Killer is a neutral killing role that adds to the KPN for non-town, while we possess the majority, we should attempt to eliminate the Serial Killer, to try to reduce the amount of dead townies every night. (inb4 someone says I'm neutral hunting)

I'd like to ask this question to all the players.

Do you think we have a Witch, or a Serial Killer?

[Yukitaka Oni]

I pick Serial Killer, because it's more common.
Beside the afraid of Jester is one of my lie, because I already know RLVG won't let 1 KPN (kill per night) in this kind of 9-3-1 (too much town favor)

[Yukitaka Oni]

I pick Serial Killer, because it's more common.
Beside the afraid of Jester is one of my lie, because I already know RLVG won't let 1 KPN (kill per night) in this kind of 9-3-1 (too much town favor)

Self-hypothesis to delay the lynch train. Yuki is my name
Never make sense is what I am

[Snorlax]

The Monopoly half of this archon doesnt post, only reads.

[deathworlds]

The Monopoly half of this archon doesnt post, only reads.

God bless his heart, he doesn't want to scum slip so he has the better half do the posting.

[Stereo]

Response time is a go. Caught all the way up, so responses are made with posts in the future in mind.

Who do think has the most chance of flipping scum as of now?

Honestly Yuki or Drizzt. Drizzt was very passive and very willing to accept his new player status, but wanted to use it as an excuse. However, now that the pressure is on him, he has felt the need to begin deliberating with the rest of us instead of lurking. Yuki is an open book made using Wingdings. Gyrlander too, but Drizzt has me very suspicious at this moment in time.

Dude, this is a completely different game from RNG-TPR-heavy mod mafia. Do not ever replicate your mod play here. In the mod, the bad players only lynch when an investigative role has a lead or when the good players (DUCK and I) fake-claim sheriff and lynch whoever acts/talks like a mafia.

After seeing the setup speculation from DW things are now in perspective for me and I am able to see what you are saying.

No, he shouldn't. What makes you think he should?

This is either a noob town post or a scum TPR hunting by PoE...[/QUOTE]
A role claim is just the first thing you would expect from someone under scrutiny (in the mod, and I know, stop doing that). He has votes against him, and I don't see the harm in him revealing. I don't see why scum would want to eliminate a player that others are expecting to flip scum.

Why did you feel the need to say this?

Speculation. It was looking at what could cause him to play so passively. Seeing how he is posting now that the fuzz is on to him, I feel confident saying Drizzt is our neutral. Like RLVG said earlier, everything was randomized. The first thing a scum does when they're called into question is start talking. He was called into question, and he is now talking.

I was already aware that his claim was a terrible one -- My question was: Do YOU believe his claim?

I personally do not. This could be an opportunity to test if a Vigilante was rolled though. Only if at the end of the day everyone is still on the Drizzt train.

o What do you think of the Calix-Quick/Quick-NU debate?

Legit question, where and with who is Calix? I understand Calix is a hy-dra? This whole hy-dra thing is really confusing for me if I am being honest.

o What do you think of Unknown-NU?

I don't feel particularly great about Unknown. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being scum and 5 being town, I'd say 2.

He doesn't know what to do in the day chat? Did you just TMI the scumteam?

If I get lynched because of someone who lacks the ability to clearly convey a message I will be very upset. I think Yuki's saying I don't quite grasp that this is a game of critical analysis and speculation, not action.

Btw, you write NOTD 2 story or Kirthixx? (Side question)

Not the place for this, I have a message inbox on the NOTD forum for questions of this nature.

I'll cast my vote on Serial Killer for our Neutral, but tomorrow I imagine we'll know for sure.

[Stereo]

Posted before I read the Snorlax = Calix, brb reading and posting.

[Stereo]

also not being able to edit is brutal, but i guess i can see where its coming from

[Stereo]

I have no strong town feelings from Quick or Calix, but who is NU?? Are they 1/2 hy-dra?

[Yukitaka Oni]

I have no strong town feelings from Quick or Calix, but who is NU?? Are they 1/2 hy-dra?

Nu(never unlucky)

[deathworlds]

I have no strong town feelings from Quick or Calix, but who is NU?? Are they 1/2 hy-dra?

NU is the more bitter counterpart of the secondlynch hidra.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Ty for side question
- Pretend if we guess serial killer correct. We better prep if serial killer may choose not to kill (to hide himself)
- Calix(Snorlax)

[deathworlds]

Ty for side question
- Pretend if we guess serial killer correct. We better prep if serial killer may choose not to kill (to hide himself)
- Calix(Snorlax)

Indeed.

Now I must be off, I have other things to attend to, it may be a possibility that I may not be present for day's end. My vote stays on you for now.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Indeed.

Now I must be off, I have other things to attend to, it may be a possibility that I may not be present for day's end. My vote stays on you for now.

Fine by me

[RLVG]

It is not stated whether that the Consort can act out the mafia night kill, is this intended? While I've got your attention, do the mafia power roles have to forsake their night action in order to act out the factional night kill?

1. Yes, Consorts can make the mafia night kill. It's an error and has been corrected.
2. Yes, they must forsake their night action to make a factional night kill.

[RLVG]

A replacement has occured! @Char Char the Charmeleon has been replaced by @JealousTL


Replacement effective now.

[JealousTL]

Hello, everyone! Catching up now. GL HF

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hello, everyone! Catching up now. GL HF

Welcome to the show. v)x.o)> v(o.o(v
(Hope you're not a scum)

[Yukitaka Oni]

Welcome to the show. v)x.o)> v(o.o(v
(Hope you're not a scum)

1 (ghost player) left

[Snorlax]

1) Snorlax is going for the easiest lynches, basically the new players. Asserting a false sense of authority to create narrative based on appeal to experience. Here are two examples.

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

2) After being confronted by Yuki with respect to Snorlax's large net cast on us noobs, Snorkax backs off on those that he can while still being able to continue biting on me and pushing me through to a potential mislynch:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

3) I've noticed something odd about Snorlax's posting but I wasn't sure what it was. I was already annoyed at Snorlax's pushing on me, and other noobs, but that's not exactly it. It's not even the authoritarian way Snorlax is approaching the thread. It's Snorlax's dissociated perspective that ultimately leads me to voting for Snorlax.



When discussing with Stereo, I see a lot of Information Instead Of Analysis from an authoritarian perspective that doesn't come from Snorlax's point of view, rather it's more of a point of view from some third party talking cloud hovering above.

From a separate perspective, I see Snorlax hunting for Stereo's role in this quote.

4) I'm going to be blunt. Stereo is one of my strongest, if not the strongest town read I have at the moment. Almost entirely based on his initial no-lynch comments in favor of night actions. Protectives should be on Stereo tonight. If I'm mislynched, investigatives and town killing should be on Snorkax tonight.

5) How was that for D1 reads and analysis?

1. I'm not pushing for 'the easiest mislynches'; I've already explained my stance here. It's obvious that nobody is lynching Char Char/ dezkai because they are AFK and give us no information and we have two semi-competent replacements on hand. That's not going for 'low hanging fruit' - that's stating a fact.

Would you rather that I make up a third Mafia read and assume that the AFK players are both town? Because that is what you're implying here.

'false sense of authority' - I'm pretty sure you are reading my personality as AI because I'm not seeing anything unusual here.

2. "potential mislynch" - This sounds like you are throwing doubt on your own alignment. Again, I wasn't backing down from anything.

3. No idea what 'dissociated perspective' you are talking about. I am making some informative posts because there are new players in the game. It's NAI because my intentions with posting those are to inform the new players, not to push an agenda.

4. Directing TPRs is a horrible idea because it gives scum a road map of what NOT to do. Why are you saying that the Investigatives should target someone that Town Killing is also targeting? You're basically saying "have the invests waste a night action on a dead player"

5. For a newb, you have some nerve

For real though, I like the attempt at casting doubt on my alignment.

I realize that a combination of directly defying thread momentum by voting and pushing Snorlax hard, while also being primed for a noob mislynch puts me in a position where I have to be very clear.

Let me make myself abundantly clear:

1) When being pressured I claimed citizen, not some power role. If I were Mafia, correct play would be to claim Sheriff or a similar powerful role to grant me an extra day and night regardless of how bad I look in the thread to everyone else. I didn't do this for a few reasons, namely being: I'M NOT FUCKING MAFIA!!!! I also didn't want to draw night protection when I'm just a citizen. From a Mafia point of view, claiming citizen on day 1 is perhaps the most idiotic thing possible. I'm not an idiot.

2) I claimed a town role. I'm approaching the thread by declaring town alignment. This means if I were neutral or Mafia, I'd potentially attract night kills from either alignment. Again, this wouldn't make sense to freely volunteer this information were I any non-town alignment.

3) I'm pushing one of the most active, authoritarian players in the game so far. If I were any non-town role looking to survive, this would be a beyond stupid play to make. I'm pushing Snorlax because, again, I'm town and I believe Snorlax is not town.

4) I'm new to forum Mafia. I was very briefly a keeper and secret police for the SC2 variant. Look me up, I'm Brock Sampson. I'm being set up as an easy mislynch.

5) I'd like to ask SecondLynch's opinion on Snorlax in particular. It seemed they were disagreeing earlier but there was no real pushback. SecondLynch, where do you stand on Snorlax now?

SL already countered this argument, so I'll just add some points that have not already been said.

Firstly your entire defense is WIFOM.

"Scum wouldn't claim Citizen." (yes they would - it's the go-to scum claim because you don't have to prove it)
- Furthermore, the context makes it scummy because you claimed INSTEAD of defending yourself. You have NOT countered my initial case against you, thus the points have stacked up because you have confirmed them with your silence.

"Scum wouldn't claim a non-town role." (???)

"Scum wouldn't push Calix because she's vocal." (yes they would - it's how they can discredit a vocal townie)
- You're only pushing back against the person who is accusing you. That is extremely reactive play at best (although I suspect that new players of all alignments would be inclined towards being reactive) and a scum who is resorting to attacking anyone who pushes him at worst.

Being new is not a defense and never will be. #4 is asking for a newb pass.

Signal-boosting this quote of SL's in particular:

See, this is what we wanted you to be doing from the get-go: pushing your reads, even if they are wrong and go against thread consensus.

You were not being “primed for a noob mislynch”. No, you were being scum-read for playing the noob card from your first post which means you are marginalizing everything you’ll be posting from the very beginning. As Calix has explained, this is a very scum-typical thing to do. I did the exact same thing the first time I rolled scum

You still haven’t explained why you did it.[/COLOR]

I don't think that SecondLynch and Snorkax are even attempting to approach me as a villager.

'villager' - This is an extremely odd term for a sc2mod player to use. You sound like someone who comes from MU.

God bless his heart, he doesn't want to scum slip so he has the better half do the posting.

It was agreed in the pre-game that Iced would almost-never post because he's taking a break and I offered to help him out.

I wasn't aware that you were scum-reading us before now given that you have said nothing about this account for the entire day.

I also don't like how you chose to focus on baseless setup spec at the expense of debating suspects even though there is plenty to talk about.

[Yukitaka Oni]

3 people 2 vote. Not sure if Calix using the same trick spread vote or someone else scheme......

[Snorlax]

If nothing else, everyone should vote for Drizzt for his shameless attempt at using his 'newb' status while slipping by using a MU term.

'Villager' is NOT a term that the sc2mod uses, thus suggesting that he has experience elsewhere.

[Yukitaka Oni]

If nothing else, everyone should vote for Drizzt for his shameless attempt at using his 'newb' status while slipping by using a MU term.

'Villager' is NOT a term that the sc2mod uses, thus suggesting that he has experience elsewhere.

Hold ya horse Calix/whoever you are
Char char has been replaced. Give the replacement a couple of post to catch up

[Snorlax]

Calix here. Iced made that post that DW commented on but that's about it.

Glad to see Jealous around. He actually does something.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Gonna stay about 30 minutes before I'm gone with my vote tho

[Snorlax]

Gonna stay about 30 minutes before I'm gone with my vote tho

Voting Drizzt is 100% the best option, much like voting Firebringer in Return to Normalcy was the best option.

If I recall correctly, we have less than 12 hours left. Can't afford for people to bugger off without voting and risk No Lynching.