Agave: 1-S2-1-6562611

[Iced_Monopoly]

Account Name:Agave
Account ID:1-S2-1-6562611
In-Game Name:WET BUTT

Crimes Committed:Gamethrowing

Your Account Name:IcedMonopoly
Summary:Marshall made a public reveal on D3, and had a maximum of 2 lynches in a single execution. Our godfather on the previous night had been redirected by a witch. When Marshall asks for roles and LWs, 7 (WET BUTT) PMs marshall that he is the witch, and that he controlled 12 (Our Godfather) to kill 5 on N1. Upon being lynched, he also posts the LW to the remaining town where he shows 12 is GF.

[Iced_Monopoly]

-Mafia-.SC2Replay

[PowersThatBe]

The witch game threw? @Iced_Monopoly

[Iced_Monopoly]

Yes, the Witch revealed himself to the marshall, along with the identity of the GF. None of which was provoked or required. Given both the witch and the mafia are aligned in seeing the town lose, there is no reason to reveal that information to a marshall.

Edit they are also not against eachother and can win together, so its not like it was a neut killing selling out a GF for being night invul, witch just straight up gave himself up and sold out gf with him for whatever reasons he had.

[Arrow]

Based on the description presented, this would be a gamethrow on the Witch's part for giving themself up to the Marshall.

However, Witch and Mafia are different teams; they are not required to support each other's wins.

[PowersThatBe]

SC ID VERIFICATION
1. Agave Correct. 1-S2-1-6562611


Respective Hotkeys
1. Control 1

Was the Game Result altered?
1. Yes, the Witch could not win after getting hanged.

Previous Offenses
1. Intentional Game Throw (Ban-List x2): https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...1-S2-1-6562611
2. Lag Cheating (Watch-List x2): https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...-s2-1-6562611;
3. Griefing (Watch-List x2): https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...-S2-1-6562611;
4. Intentional Game Throw (Appealed): https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...1-S2-1-6562611


Player Offenses
1. Intentional Game Throw


Summary
1.Agave controls 12. Then pm’s him saying “keep doing what you’re doing” and “don’t kill me, I controlled you n1.” Then n2 he controls 9 as a survivor claim and nothing happens to 9’s target. D3 rolls around and the Marshall reveals, and Agave pm’s his role and lw as “witch and 12 is GF”. Agave and 12 are both hanged. Town goes on to win.

Screen Shot 2016-05-18 at 1.40.22 AM.png

Conclusion: Intentional Game Throw. The Witch’s role card states that it’s win condition is to live long enough to see the town lose. Agave actively went out of his way to lose the game for himself. He is being punished for disregarding his own win condition and not for outing the mafia.


Recommended Action
1. Ban-List x4


Additional Notes
Thanks for the report! Agave cannot be punished for railroading the mafia. However, he can be punished for disregarding his own win con to grief other players. He is being charged with intentional game throw because he went out of his way to get himself hung when nothing inside the game suggested that such behavior was in retaliation. It came completely out of the blue, and was malicious in intent. Given Agave’s extensive history leaves me with the thought that a 1 month break from Mafia might be in his best interest. The guidelines suggest perma-ban for the 4th offense, but I think 16 weeks is too long for a neutral game throw, and I think 4 weeks sends a clear message to this player while being short enough that it doesn’t feel like eternity.

[Arrow]

1-S2-1-6562611: 4x Banlist

[ArtfulDodger]

I dont see how this is gamethrowing. When the marshall revealed d3, I had no fake role and last will prepared. Therefore, I went for the "look, im telling you that im evil" strategy. Every halfway decent Marshall would suspect me being jester or at least just spare me for the moment since I got him the Godfather. Either way, I was just desperately trying to avoid being lynched without having taken proper precautions. And my approach was, at least in my opinion, better than not pming the Marshall at all or going for the retarded "im doc" answer. If anything, it was also the godfathers fault for not having a proper claim, otherwise the Marshall might have hesitated in lynching us both.
Considering that I had no teammates whom I harmed with my playstyle and that I thought that I can play a neutral role as I see fit in order to win, I would like to lodge for an appeal on this one.

Another thing that bothers me is this keeper adding an appealed report to my "previous offenses". Although I dont think it changes punishments a lot, I cant see why you would add this to the list. After all, it was no offense - since it was appealed.

Interesting sidenote: I cant find a person by the name of "IcedMonopoly" in this replay.

[PowersThatBe]

We list anything you were punished for or is public. We wouldn't list ignored or pending reports because they are not charged against you. An appealed case is valid because it can show a pattern of behavior. However, the punishment was factored using only the cases you were punished for. The appealed case was not factored in.

[ArtfulDodger]

A pattern of behavior that was obviously no offense since it got appealed? Sure, why not. Its your wasted time anyway

[Cryptonic]

There was no conviction as it was basically a loophole. It was for something that we deemed to be negative towards a game, but we didn't have specific wordings against it at that time. You did what you were accused of in that report, we just decided not to punish you for it. That is why we'd use that report to help show your intentions.

You are right that an appealed report will 99% of the time not be used to show a pattern, as most cases the player didn't do anything wrong. But, if a report like bank hacking gets appealed after a year, that person still bank hacked. We would be foolish not to consider that fact in future reports.

[ArtfulDodger]

Ah yes, I understand now. Thank you very much, Cryptonic.

[ArtfulDodger]

I hope I made myself clear: I am asking for an appeal.

[Lysergic]

I hope I made myself clear: I am asking for an appeal.

Marked for appeal.

If no one gets to this by Thursday (my next day off) I will do it.

[MattZed]

SC ID VERIFICATION
Agave:Correct. 1-S2-1-6562611

Respective Hotkeys
Agave: ctrl+1

Recap of Game
Other than the alleged gamethrow, a fairly normal game with Marshall and a few detective roles doing PoE to win.

As for the Gamethrow, it goes as follows: Agave, 7, rolls Witch. On N1, he targets 12 (Godfather) and forces him to visit 5, who dies to the mafia kill. At the start of D2, he messages 12 "Youve been a bad boy" and "Keep doing what youre doing, just dont kill me - I controlled you last night," to which 12 does not respond. D2 ends after a claimed survivor is almost lynched.
Agave_PM1.jpg Agave_PM2.jpg
D3 starts and a Marshall reveals. Agave claims Witch to the Marshall and reveals his night actions, including his suspicion that 12 is the GF.
He is then lynched, followed by 12, who had merely claimed "im doc" to the Marshall.
Agave_MayorPM.jpg

Was the Game Result altered?
Probably; there were many better claims for Agave to make than simply declaring his true role. I would expect a player of Agave's experience to be able to come up with a claim that would at least not get him instantly killed.

Previous Offenses
Agave: Reactionary Game Throw, Griefing, Lag Cheating (Note: April 2015).

Player Offenses
Agave: Neutral Gamethrowing

Consideration of Appeal
Agave has entered two main arguments for his appeal: 1. That his play represents a valid, if ill-advised gambit and is at worst poor play, not game throwing. 2. He was an neutral role whose death did not cause the loss of any teammate.

In regards to the first argument, I must disagree in this case. While one can do a jester gambit, there was only one neutral benign, and this player had already claimed survivor and was the primary suspect D2. Agave has played a lot of games, and I find it hard to believe that he couldn't come up with some sort half-believable town claim on the spot, such as bodyguard. Of course, we all have our weaker games and our panic moments, but given that D2 had already beaten a survivor claim to death, I am skeptical that a jester gambit was truly contemplated here.

As for the second argument, it has been the case, since 2014, the neutrals can gamethrow by not playing to their win condition. Given how much Agave plays mafia, I doubt that he could be sincerely unaware of this fact, so I must reject this argument.

@ArtfulDodger , I appreciate the calm demeanor you have presented in requesting your appeal. However, your current arguments are not persuasive enough for me to granted a reduced sentence or an appeal. Unless you have further evidence to present, I am going to mark this appeal denied.

When your banlist expires in a few weeks, I hope you return to enjoy games with others without feeling the need to gamethrow.

[ArtfulDodger]

First of all, thank you for taking the effort of reviewing this again.

On d3, I was unaware that somebody already claimed the neutral benign role d2 (which doesnt mean that he was confirmed, neutral killers/evils or GF/beguiler often claim survivor), as I was busy d2 and n2 thinking about how to deal with me pming 12 and him not responding - because it could still be a coincidence that 5 died to mafia, meaning that I just revealed my role to some random guy who might as well be town. As I already tried to explain, the Marshall reveal overwhelmed me and a simple doc/bg/vet claim without a last will would lead me to get lynched anyway, at least those are the claims I usually lynch when Im Mayor/Marshall (and Im usually successful with it).

And to be honest: I was unaware that neutrals can gamethrow, Im playing Sc2 Mafia since 2011 and never really looked up any updated rules. Im not trying to make an excuse for my actions, but I dont see why my unusual, yet from my perspective fitting, approach is considered gamethrowing. Additionally, why would I want to throw the game anyway? I am not waiting 20 minutes in a lobby, rolling witch, trying to find GF, pming him my role and that I "know" his, just to get lynched d3 - and then waiting another 20 minutes in a new lobby. I mean, I can see how gamethrowing as town/mafia/triad/cult can give you a certain satisfaction since youre ruining the game for people youre supposed to work with. But as a solo neutral role, I dont see what the point in deliberately throwing the game would be.

[PowersThatBe]

If you were going to be lynched anyway, as you state, wouldn't it have been better to claim a town role anyway? Your point about posting your actual role as a means to not get lynched just doesn't seem forthright to me.

Anyway, your appeal was denied. I suggest in the future you look up the rules, and try to play to your win condition.

[ArtfulDodger]

Dont worry, I got plenty of old starter accounts to continue playing. Yes, Im admitting that Im evading the ban list, you may ban this account permanently if you want to. Apparently the only way to play mafia is what the mods in this forum say it is, so I dont care anymore. 90% of the mafia players are disgusted by you people and what you think is the right way to approach a game. You can keep banning people, but be aware that your behavior is ultimately wiping out the sc2mafia community - who knows, regarding your nazi-like punishments maybe that is exactly your goal.

So long, nerds.