S-FM 220: Empire

[SilverWolf]

you say my vote is RVS but i have stated my vote was not RVS and innstead something i do regardless.

ill leave it where it is right now cus i want to talk to silverwolf more

@SilverWolf what do you think of RLVG idea of no lynching?

I don't like it. Whenever there is a no lynch idea out there, people stop scumhunting and it's harder to pressure and vote people.

What about you? Do you have any reads on anyone yet? You appear to be defending me yet keeping your vote on me and pressuring me at the same time. Can you explain your read on me in more detail.

[ika]

Sino
Unknown1234
Deathworlds
Mesk514
SuperJack
MattZed
RLVG
yzb25
SilverWolf
ika
Calix
secondpassing

something like this are my reads off the top of my head. i have nto looked into details yet cus the game is running a million miles and i get having new post before me.

ill porb do a reread overnight if it slows down

[deathworlds]

You were ready to fucking hang sino like, 2 hours ago, what changed sense then secondpassing?

[Sino]

Yeah, I really want to lynch SP right now. I know it's super-early, etc etc, but his posts are so bad. Soooo fucking bad.

He talks shit about some of the active players and then votes a lurker who won't give a shit. That's pretty scummy too, like he doesn't want to get in our faces and draw even more attention to himself.

This kind of thing reminds me of WoM, hence why i have a slight town lean on him.

[secondpassing]

Yeah, I really want to lynch SP right now. I know it's super-early, etc etc, but his posts are so bad. Soooo fucking bad.

He talks shit about some of the active players and then votes a lurker who won't give a shit. That's pretty scummy too, like he doesn't want to get in our faces and draw even more attention to himself.

Isn't talking crap about some of the active players a normal thing to do? This makes no sense.
I'm currently voting a PL target because I don't have enough information, nor did I gather it yet.

I'm already in your faces, and drawing attention to myself. I can make more waves if necessary and if it is beneficial.

[Unknown1234]

I'd say I've commented on a lot so far.

Matt, if you are only referring to his wall post, I don't know what to say because it's like they aren't even reads.

[Calix]

And why are you reading SJ as scum for being defensive...before town-reading Sino who is the literal definition of defensive this game? lol

[MattZed]

Aaaand this is where I take my break to return in ~5 hours.

Calix, you're being too shallow on SP. Yes, that's a bit of an opportunistic read list, but try asking SP more as to why he made these reads.

[ika]

I don't like it. Whenever there is a no lynch idea out there, people stop scumhunting and it's harder to pressure and vote people.

What about you? Do you have any reads on anyone yet? You appear to be defending me yet keeping your vote on me and pressuring me at the same time. Can you explain your read on me in more detail.

sure, i jsut put a read list

the reaosn why im voting you but calling you town is becasue i know how your scum game works. if i jsut call you town and leave you to be, i would never be able to get you lynched. if i at least keep some sort of pressure on you i can fold back if i feel like you are scum

its also day one and i want to be accurate on you and seeing how its been so long before our last gaem seprate, i want to make sure my skills are up to par on reading you

[secondpassing]

You were ready to fucking hang sino like, 2 hours ago, what changed sense then secondpassing?

Let's consider two things.

First, it was a reaction test. I threatened a turbo lynch, but I did not do one.
Second: would a scum turbo lynch?

[MattZed]

I'd say I've commented on a lot so far.

Matt, if you are only referring to his wall post, I don't know what to say because it's like they aren't even reads.

A point-by-point rebuttal is fine if you really disagree so strongly. It's not that long.

[Calix]

This kind of thing reminds me of WoM, hence why i have a slight town lean on him.

Isn't talking crap about some of the active players a normal thing to do? This makes no sense.
I'm currently voting a PL target because I don't have enough information, nor did I gather it yet.

I'm already in your faces, and drawing attention to myself. I can make more waves if necessary and if it is beneficial.

That's what you call 'shade-throwing' which you consider a scum tell.

You just gave four scum-reads/ leans - how is that not 'enough information' to try pushing?

Unknown and I are right here. Try pushing us if you think we're scum.

[deathworlds]

Let's consider two things.

First, it was a reaction test. I threatened a turbo lynch, but I did not do one.
Second: would a scum turbo lynch?

1. The fact that you were playing it off as a "reaction test" is a shiety excuse. Which is why I said "inb4 you say its reaction testing"
2. Yes, they would, the town would be worse off if we had less discussion time.

[SilverWolf]

lol I saw the nice Calix disappearing last page with Sino. :<

I was making a more general complaint about people disappearing, but I really don't accept that he just so happened to need to go to bed right at that moment. He had likely been needing to go to bed a while and chose that moment to do it because he had just made a quick flash of effort after people thought he was full of shit. He left because it was the most opportune time to leave in the general timeframe of bedtime.

I'm not calling him scum because of it; leaving to kill pressure helps keep anyone alive, and town needs to not get themselves lynched in order to not screw their own wincon. I scumread him because of his strawing me that reflects a lack of sincere scumhunting, and rather only a superficial reading with prods at supposed low-hanging fruit that actually weren't problematic.

But if you're going to suggest him leaving was purely innocent, I'm going to refute that. Him leaving when he did was tactical. Sure, he needed to leave, but he had some wiggle room on when to leave and chose the time that suited him best, being able to use the excuse of going to bed all the same.

I don't really like this post. It seem like a whole lot of words to say you don't like someone for having RL.

[ika]

Let's consider two things.

First, it was a reaction test. I threatened a turbo lynch, but I did not do one.
Second: would a scum turbo lynch?

why would scums not want to turbo i mena its all the rage right now isnt it?

[Calix]

"Would a scum do X?"

Yes, for the WIFOM. It's better to not do the anti-town play that requires this 'defense' in the first place.

[ika]

brb doing a co-op

[Sino]

I'm going off for today, see you everyone.

[secondpassing]

1. The fact that you were playing it off as a "reaction test" is a shiety excuse. Which is why I said "inb4 you say its reaction testing"
2. Yes, they would, the town would be worse off if we had less discussion time.

Oh look! A train.

-vote Sino

I will sacrifice this person.

2. Then I proceed to get turbo lynched the next day. How would the be beneficial for my scum team if I was on one? Trading one for one is horrific.

[Unknown1234]

Secondpassing says he didn't start a turbo lynch, but realistically if two other people had followed him it could have happened. I don't get it.

[Calix]

2. Then I proceed to get turbo lynched the next day. How would the be beneficial for my scum team if I was on one? Trading one for one is horrific.

That's WIFOM. That is the entirety of your defense.

Your defense is awful. Stop doing it.

What should you do instead? Push your scum-reads.

Do it now.

Please

[Calix]

I am not going to 'push' secondpassing so that he can focus on scum-hunting in the blue moon event that he is town.

[deathworlds]

2. Then I proceed to get turbo lynched the next day. How would the be beneficial for my scum team if I was on one? Trading one for one is horrific.

2. Could be a turbo bus of guard, who will sacrifice to kill the most optimal target last minute.

But that seems unlikely.

[Mesk514]

this seems to have blown up quite a lot since i last checked in...

[secondpassing]

2. Could be a turbo bus of guard, who will sacrifice to kill the most optimal target last minute.

But that seems unlikely.

This is not the last minute. This was my opener after I said "hi".

[Unknown1234]

I love how Deathworlds casually enters without drawing attention.

How are your reads?

[SilverWolf]

Dino is my strongest town read.



Dino is my favorite.



Totally agree with the portion in white. Unknown has had an attitude about shade throwing. Sino likewise talks about shade throwing, but in a self-righteous way.



This post overlooks the question, "Why would the assassin NK the Empress or the guard?"
And is brutally honest and inquiring.
______________________________

Unknown1234 is a scum read.

Unknown has been attacking Sino for buddying and picking at a slew of poor targets.


______________________________

RLVG is town.

It's probably very hard to play innocent if you aren't.


Yeah, me too. You get a town read.
______________________________

deathworlds is a scum read.

His reasoning for voting is "trying" but it's so fake. That means he is being deceptive. That means he is bad.


This post is so simplistic, and used as basis for a vote.



This as well. What is it that should garner such a strong reaction?
Two posts in and he swears at me.

__________________________

Calix is a scum lean.

There's too much information from her to process, and our minds are so un-similar, I get wrong reads on her every game. Does that mean she is actually town??



This post looks very fake.

Mostly gut '-'

__________________________

MattZed is town.

MattZed gets points for strategizing.
Those who come up with strategies act in a pro-town manner, and until they go against what they say, I believe they should be treated as town.

Spoiler : read list :

RLVG town
Silverwolf town
Unknown1234 scum
Calix scum?
MattZed town
Sino town
ika ????
Mesk scum (by default)
SuperJack scum (defensive?)
yzb scum (didn't notice him)

I don't agree with much of your reasoning here for your reads. You don't think scum can come up with pro-town and helpful setup spec?

What poor targets has Unknown picked at?

I disagree with your Calix read, but I guess it's o.k. to have a gut read this early.

Your deathworlds read is interesting. Do you think his strong reaction to your vote is fake?

I usually find scum fake the frustration at stuff like this where town gets legit frustrated. I tend towards no reason to get that pissed so maybe fake but I'm curious on your take on it.

[secondpassing]

I am not going to 'push' secondpassing so that he can focus on scum-hunting in the blue moon event that he is town.

I do not believe I have to 'push' my scum reads. The day is young, when EOD comes, I will push for votes on my scum reads or I will sheep my vote to make a train stronger.
Town should be proving themselves to be town.

If you mean 'push' as in finding out more information, I'll ask some questions when I get back in an hour. Sure.

[Calix]

I do not believe I have to 'push' my scum reads. The day is young, when EOD comes, I will push for votes on my scum reads or I will sheep my vote to make a train stronger.
Town should be proving themselves to be town.

If you mean 'push' as in finding out more information, I'll ask some questions when I get back in an hour. Sure.

So you're not actually invested in scum-hunting...which is the sole thing that town needs to do...which is equivalent to a scum claim.

Alright then, you can die.

[Calix]

Also I just realised that you said that you'd start voting scum-reads at EOD...

WHY? That's likely to lead to CFDs which are the worst thing town can do in this save.

[SilverWolf]

I do not believe I have to 'push' my scum reads. The day is young, when EOD comes, I will push for votes on my scum reads or I will sheep my vote to make a train stronger.
Town should be proving themselves to be town.

If you mean 'push' as in finding out more information, I'll ask some questions when I get back in an hour. Sure.

Why wait until EoD to push people to figure out their alignment? How are you gonna have the time to convince others if it's EoD? Doesn't town look town by scumhunting and questioning people? This doesn't really make sense.

[SilverWolf]

sure, i jsut put a read list

the reaosn why im voting you but calling you town is becasue i know how your scum game works. if i jsut call you town and leave you to be, i would never be able to get you lynched. if i at least keep some sort of pressure on you i can fold back if i feel like you are scum

its also day one and i want to be accurate on you and seeing how its been so long before our last gaem seprate, i want to make sure my skills are up to par on reading you

So this implies you are townreading me but think I might still be scum. So do you have any other questions for me? Also, are you using this as a reason to not scumhunt others?

[SilverWolf]

Right now, I'm thinking secondpassing is scum and maybe some of the under the radar people who are coming in posting but not saying much. Unknown and Calix are leaning town for me right now. I need to figure out several others and re-read in particular Sino and MattZed before doing a reads list. I'll probably get to that in a couple of hours from now.

[deathworlds]

I love how Deathworlds casually enters without drawing attention.

How are your reads?

Calix and Silver are my strong town reads.

RLVG and You are town lean.

Matty Gee is scum lean (seems like he could be neutral)

Secondpassing is strong scum lean.

everyone else is null or very slight leans towards one or the other.

[Mesk514]

who said i was scum by default? i concur, I'm a citizen

[Mesk514]

wew concur was the wrong word there. i disagree*

[Mesk514]

INNOOOOOO

before someone says it's a slip

[ika]

So this implies you are townreading me but think I might still be scum. So do you have any other questions for me? Also, are you using this as a reason to not scumhunt others?

nobody has adressed much to me directly, as you know of all people i get better reads of interactions

i think you are town right now yes but i have this parnoid side of me that has me suspcious so i am not hard slotting anything yet

[Calix]

Calix and Silver are my strong town reads.

RLVG and You are town lean.

Matty Gee is scum lean (seems like he could be neutral)

Secondpassing is strong scum lean.

everyone else is null or very slight leans towards one or the other.

Why do you town-read RLVG?

Please explain your SP scum-read. Although SP's play is brutal, I dislike that he is your only scum-read.

What is your Sino read? I find it hard to believe that he is null/ slight town-scum lean.

who said i was scum by default? i concur, I'm a citizen

A 'slip' would be using the word 'concede' and even that would be dubious because you claimed Citizen straight after it.

[Unknown1234]

@deathworlds

Did you catch mesk's slip?

[Mesk514]

A 'slip' would be using the word 'concede' and even that would be dubious because you claimed Citizen straight after it.

I actually claimed citizen like page 1
so

[Mesk514]

@deathworlds

Did you catch mesk's slip?

OMG

[Calix]

Reads List [Day 1]

I've said most of this before in the chat so this is just a point of reference for anyone ISOing me...and so that I don't forget.

For the purposes of Day 1, as of now:

Would not lynch:

Unknown1234 (multiple mind melds)
SilverWolf (tone + consistently making original points about players)
ika (mostly tone and a lack of egregious logic being used, need to reread)
SuperJack (genuine tone + lack of shitty posts)
Mesk514 (tone + early claim)
MattZed (not a town-read anymore but still a sub-optimal lynch today)

Would not mind lynching:

RLVG (has done nothing but defend himself and propose ill-informed ideas. Needs to discuss players)
yzb25 (but not really because he's going to turn up in the morning anyway, lol)

Would lynch:

deathworlds - Posts seem designed to blend in and not draw attention to himself.
Sino - The levels of reactive play are too goddamn high for me to town-read this slot. I really can't get over him voting for everyone who voted for him at some point. That is incrediscum.
secondpassing - Scum-claimed with his attitude towards scum-hunting.

---

If we all agree to lynch among RLVG/ DW/ Sino/ SP, we are extremely likely to hit scum today.

yzb can be added into that pile depending on how he reacts.

I really won't be voting for anyone in my green pile today. I don't care how many conspiracy theories people can make about them being god-tier scums. It's not happening.

[deathworlds]

Would lynch:

deathworlds - Posts seem designed to blend in and not draw attention to himself.

So you assume I'm scummy because I'm not shiting all over discussion like I've tended to do in the past?

[deathworlds]

@deathworlds

Did you catch mesk's slip?

piss off cuck

[Calix]

So you assume I'm scummy because I'm not shiting all over discussion like I've tended to do in the past?

Misrepresenting my argument is still being a shitter, sorry to disappoint.

You have done a grand total of jack and shit.

Would you like me to embarrass you further by quoting and dissecting how useless they are, or are you going to do something now?

[deathworlds]

Misrepresenting my argument is still being a shitter, sorry to disappoint.

You have done a grand total of jack and shit.

Would you like me to embarrass you further by quoting and dissecting how useless they are, or are you going to do something now?

Day one isn't necessarily where I shine (insert literally any recent FM game where I tunneled day one), so I've decided to take a step back in my involvement day one.

[secondpassing]

I don't agree with much of your reasoning here for your reads. You don't think scum can come up with pro-town and helpful setup spec?

What poor targets has Unknown picked at?

I disagree with your Calix read, but I guess it's o.k. to have a gut read this early.

Your deathworlds read is interesting. Do you think his strong reaction to your vote is fake?

I usually find scum fake the frustration at stuff like this where town gets legit frustrated. I tend towards no reason to get that pissed so maybe fake but I'm curious on your take on it.

Scum could come up with pro-town and helpful setup spec.. but the real question is: Would they? The answer is in the wording itself. A scum being PRO-town means that he would have to help town towards winning. If scum help town too much in an attempt to look town, scum will lose. Therefore, players who act pro-town are more likely to be town.

I'll have to go look again. I've taken the most notice of Sino and me (obviously) and those are two targets that Unknown picked at. Sorry for dragging Sino along with me, but these are two players seen as "illogical".

I think deathworlds faked a strong reaction to my vote. I believe a normal process would be to think: What? Why did he do it? Would he as scum do that? Would he as town do that?
Instead, he instantly jumped at the opportunity to vote me. Therefore he did not go through that process and he is not scum hunting. Additionally, he attempted to sound abrasive by swearing at me. "Why?" Is the question I ask, and can only conclude that since he has had no reason to get so riled up at me, he is faking it.

[Unknown1234]

piss off cuck

Wise words from the Cuck himself.

[Calix]

Day one isn't necessarily where I shine (insert literally any recent FM game where I tunneled day one), so I've decided to take a step back in my involvement day one.

That's great that you're purporting to try and fix your meta.

However that doesn't account entirely for your overwhelming lack of presence so far.

I am going to sleep. I expect to wake up to good posts.