S-FM The Cold War III

[Fielzanks]

(Also the lack of attention I get this game is almost frightening)

[rumox]

Magoroth kinda sus because he keeps posting roles yet does not understand them or maybe its a joke?
cuz he was talking about sleeper agent being able to roleblock to confirm himself?



he is also trying to lynch our TPR rumox and pretending to be dumb to distract us from MM because aamirus and others were voting him
idk thats what im gettin out of him its prob wrong

These are fair assumptions to come to given your first FM game.

Magoroth IS suss for posting about the rules/roles and getting it wrong. He said the Sleeper role can role-block which is FAKE NEWS, Premier's personal 'Entertainment' is the role that role-blocks. I don't think he is trying to lynch me, but he is defs throwing shade my way. There is a distinct different between the two and you should try to quickly realise the difference. I also don't think he is trying to distract us from MM, iirc he threw shade at MM a few times.

As for right now I just see him as a townie running around trying to figure it out. It's normal to swing randomly day 1.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Trying to actively continue discussion toward a productive manner seems Town-like right now.

Who's scum? Because I have seen only town reads....

[Fielzanks]

These are fair assumptions to come to given your first FM game.

As for right now I just see him as a townie running around trying to figure it out. It's normal to swing randomly day 1.

Why don't you swing off me then?

[Unknown1234]

Magoroth kinda sus because he keeps posting roles yet does not understand them or maybe its a joke?
cuz he was talking about sleeper agent being able to roleblock to confirm himself?



he is also trying to lynch our TPR rumox and pretending to be dumb to distract us from MM because aamirus and others were voting him
idk thats what im gettin out of him its prob wrong

So not that I disagree with anything you’re saying, but to build on these points that you’ve given,

1.) what about not understanding roles has made you think Magoroth is scum?

2.) Do you believe rumox’s claim? What do you think about the people that had been voting him before (naz and aamirus, if I remember correctly).

3.) Do you think MM and Magoroth are paired? This is possible, as I’ve noticed that Magoroth seems more engaged with me when There hasn’t been focus on MM, but Magoroth has been more proactive and genuinely seems to be scum-hunting.

[naz]

Naz on the other hand has presented themselves as scum to be in several ways, and right now I’m 90% they’re scum. I’m not focusing on them now though because all they’ve been doing is trying to distract conversation and piss me off.

You chose to ignore my questions on how am I scum? How can rumox confirm himself "multiple ways"?
How have I shown that I am scum in multiple ways?
and you will continue to ignore me here, holding the game back.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

maybe you're feeling the neutral vibe cuz im a nice guy =)

cough cough the only neutral is Stalin, who is a SK...

[Unknown1234]

Who's scum? Because I have seen only town reads....

I’m Currently scum-reading you, naz, and aamirus. There was a post about them following the one you quoted of my past town-reads.

[Fielzanks]

The main thing standing out to me now is how uninterested he appears to be in his own vote.

I would also like to be aggressively pressuring said aamarus but he's been away since I've mentioned him.

[rumox]

Why don't you swing off me then?

Don't feel special, I have thrown shade at other people too. My vote isn't on you either. Nice attempt at framing tho, noted.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I like it even less.

...you realize that outting the survivor IS pro-town, right?

And why exactly did you say this?

Because naz said we weren't taking any of your suggestions :P

what, who the fuck hard-claimed already?

Rumox hardclaimed Sleeper agent... WHICH IS NOT A PRO-TOWN ROLE. Oh btw

-vote rumox

not sure I did it before lol

[Ganelon]

Oi the Sleeper Agent is a Lookout/Detective hybrid?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I have to agree with blink here, claiming a role like Fidel Castro - a neutral role that isn't even in the game - makes me uneasy.

Elaborate.

[Unknown1234]

You chose to ignore my questions on how am I scum? How can rumox confirm himself "multiple ways"?
How have I shown that I am scum in multiple ways?
and you will continue to ignore me here, holding the game back.

His role is a detective and a lookout, no? I’m pretty sure being one of them can give information that would confirm him regardless.

You have not given scum reads or town reads (say that everyone is scum to you), have been attacking me for the majority of the time instead of scum-hunting, have been referring to me as non-scum for a lot of posts you’ve made, and derailing posts by still trying to provoke me. I don’t know what you’re even doing at this point.

[naz]

It's strategy time!

Welcome in today's communist news feed! Breaking news, some capitalist scums invaded our country to make it fall!
And you know why the communist flag is red? BECAUSE WE TAINT IT WITH CAPITALIST BLOOD!

Spoiler : Don't click it. Seriously. :

CAPITALIST SCUM TEAM

Really classical mafia team : A godfather, a consigliere and a consort. Heat actions do not seem overpowered at all (they'll basically use it to kill a revealed Trostky or Putin, which is the way to go.) They're tailored to fight Castro but in this game he's not present so they are a bit on the weaker side I'd say? Since the role that gets sent out cannot do his night action, the mafia has several ways to play this one in my eyes :
1. Utilize JFK HEAT right away to have 2 kills night two. Seems like the strongest plan, but it also means that either consig or godfather will have to attack. If the consig have to attack, he will not be able to gather info, and if the godfather attack he will not be able to HEAT to recruit rumox. The strongest plan here would then be JFK HEAT, Truman HEAT, Nixon kill. This leave the mafia team without consig info but also allows a sure kill on rumox without it being revealed, while also having the possibility to have 2 kills the night after, but without the HEAT roleblock from Truman.
2. Utilize JFK HEAT right away to gain two kills night two, but also send the consigliere to gather info to make a better decision on night two. It will then send the godfather to kill, and they would use their HEAT the second night to allow for 2 unblockable kills for their faction. In this situation, rumox won't be converted at day 2.
3. Don't utilize JFK HEAT right away and send him to kill. This is what I expect a bad mafia team would do, as it leaves the godfather doing nothing (or HEAT?) without having 2 kills the night after.

With JFK HEAT and a bit of luck for the mafia, the town is at LyLo at day 3 (2 town death n1, 3 town death n2 making it 3mafia vs 3 town vs 1 sk). I'm not even sure it's considered LyLo as it's extremely brutal.

I've pointed out that the mafia would hit rumox with a HEAT action to assure the convert to them, but they would obviously prefer killing Trostky or Lenin, or a Goulag Officier (which we don't know if we have): because getting rid of these roles asap is better than to make town lose a lynch on him. But if myself was from the mafia, I would advocate doing plan #2 because I don't think Rumox claim is legit. If it is, it's all in the interest of mafia to learn of the truth and not waste a lynch on a citizen.
We're at day 1, so group agenda for the mafia isn't already established, but I can clearly see individual agenda to find TPR in sneaky ways being done the first day. As we're going to put pressure to find evils, they would utilize this pressure to gain info by day.
It is also worth noting out that consort will NOT claim escort due to the low possibility of that occurring and risks of being counterclaimed. We should lynch every escort claim by day 3. Instead, I think the consort would claim roleblocked on himself to be put by people as town; or at least not-scum. < Look into that people.

But if I read the setup correctly, we are not defenseless against their line of play : Trotsky can use his role to see every mafia action. I assume this is not seeing the targets too because that would be grossly overpowered, but it will allow town to know what was going on by night 1. I suggest against Trotsky to claim what he has seen however, as he would eat a HEAT bullet the night after. And we surely need this powerful role.

THE PROLETARIAT TOWN TEAM

Our defined roles are extremely powerful, be it Trotsky or Lenin. They would definitely hide behind a citizen claim or avoid claiming altogether to avoid being outed. As such, we should take caution about using the FoS on everyone as, at some point we will out one of them. And we don't want to do that by day 1.
Trotsky would surely use his night action to see mafia's ones to know when the HEAT has been used, and NOT use the gun carelessly as if he shoot even 1 town, it's lost for everyone.
Lenin would use his heat the second day, after gathering a list of good reads, because passing down his healing power to town is IMPORTANT for us if we want to be able to withstand 2 attacks per night. However, I would understand him using his heat the first day, as if he dies N1 his power would be wasted either way. But this is also very dangerous as I believe Lenin night chat is NOT anonymous so if Lenin choose a mafia right away he'll be able to tell his team and we would lose our doc first night, a thing we should avoid at all costs. I don't think the other TPR roles are relevant because proper use of these 2 will make the game for town without anyone else doing much but scumhunting. The strategy for town would be really role-based; and not worth to out every potential thinking here as it would hurt some komrad in an impactful way. Standard FM playing will be sufficient to win easily.
Talking about scumhunting, SCUMHUNTING WILL BE ESSENTIAL FOR TOWN TO NOT LOSE : We're going at mylo day 3 without us doing anything wrong (let's say skipping day 1 and lynching JFK day 2). So every town not scumhunting will fall into the scumdetector and be questioned, tortured and whipped. Passive playing as town, even if you're Trotsky is discouraged because it'll just make us loose.


MY CURRENT VIEW ON THE STATE OF THE GAME

We're good, nobody has died yet, Distorted is not here so he will not be the #1 voted for the majority of the first day and his alt seems extremely towny. The game progress in a way I'm happy with, and the FoS is being dropped around without heavy tunneling. Some actions were scummy, some players were scummy, but that's basically what mid-day 1 reads stops.

Magoroth and Blinkskater are scumhunting and does so while exchanging ideas and opinions, which is a sign of good town players early in the game. They fall into the town read category.
Unknown feels towny too, easy going and helpful but not doing much except being pleasant to be with. Potential scum hiding here tho.
Interaction between MM and me feels intriguing (he's basically assuring a lynch on me if he flips maf because of our interactions) and his going out on a newb is hazardous at best but I don't feel like he's important this game. Not talking about meta, he seems a little bit too much on the spotlight and defended himself very hard, while I feel he would be dismissive if he was real scum as to not escalate this further. He's a null read with a huge potential town lean for me.
naz is a null read at the moment, but she seems to agree on my view of rumox, interactions will reveal a lot on this spot.
<Here is aamirus spot, slight scummy read because he seems to claim he's found a caught mafia in MM; which feels like a forced mislynch at this point.>
rumox feels scummy to be by a good margin, not only because he claimed sleeper agent (a powerful role I said multiple time SHOULD REMAIN HIDDEN) that can turn on us, but because his interactions feels like he's trying to sway town opinion to his own, which is not helpful at this state of the game. Also he tried to turn a vote brigade against MM to avoid his own?

I warned you.

Anyway, I'm over talking to the two most useless players.
Let's go back to this golden post.
There was that one game I played where the mafia did use their heat action n1, and Gyrlander the neutral won -- I used to think a good Mafia never would, but they can, and will.
I'm sure they would utilize heat to get 2 kills n1, they KNOW who isn't on their team, why not go full force, while others don't have information as well.
I think all mafs will claim cit tbh

[Ganelon]

Elaborate.

You claimed survivor as a role - the survivor is a role that cannot be killed at night (at least in the mod) and who usually ends up biting town in the arse, in the end. It sounds to me like you don't want to be visited at night - which points either to a SK or... to a TPR.

[Unknown1234]

I would also like to be aggressively pressuring said aamarus but he's been away since I've mentioned him.

aamirus is my next vote, but I’ve been holding off because he hasn’t been around. No point voting someone who isn’t even here to discuss with.

If not voting aamirus, where does your next scum-read go? What do you think about Lenneth voting with you?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Thanks for the discredit chum, >calls my plans shit, shitposts about a lot of stuff. Logical fallacy. Dude, you're like filled with those kind of statements.

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

Also, I wanna know what you want us to do cuz I'm not seeing you doing much other than shitposting. And you seem to have some good plans?

This makes me think you could be Neutral Evil, but a part of me says "I don't think this is MM's Neutral Evil play style".

The plan was to pressure everyone, as in a legit game of FM. But apparently, people are scumreading me so my pressure power is quite low atm. Also I don't shitpost much, I only did on D1, as everyone.

[Ganelon]

You claimed survivor as a role - the survivor is a role that cannot be killed at night (at least in the mod) and who usually ends up biting town in the arse, in the end. It sounds to me like you don't want to be visited at night - which points either to a SK or... to a TPR.

I want your opinion on a naz Lynch and I want your reads.

[Unknown1234]

@naz who would you lynch if the day ended right now?

[naz]

His role is a detective and a lookout, no? I’m pretty sure being one of them can give information that would confirm him regardless.

You have not given scum reads or town reads (say that everyone is scum to you), have been attacking me for the majority of the time instead of scum-hunting, have been referring to me as non-scum for a lot of posts you’ve made, and derailing posts by still trying to provoke me. I don’t know what you’re even doing at this point.

He could also give away the TPRs by trying to confirm himself, which is, again, why it was a bad play revealing himself as the least pro-town TPR.
Not everyone has posted yet, nor has it it been 24hrs yet, I don't need to give reads yet.

[Ganelon]

The plan was to pressure everyone, as in a legit game of FM. But apparently, people are scumreading me so my pressure power is quite low atm. Also I don't shitpost much, I only did on D1, as everyone.

I want to know your plans. When I asked you to stop shitposting, you replied with a shitpost:

'Do you think Leon Trotsky and Lenin should claim D1?' 'Should we Lynch d1?'

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You claimed survivor as a role - the survivor is a role that cannot be killed at night (at least in the mod) and who usually ends up biting town in the arse, in the end. It sounds to me like you don't want to be visited at night - which points either to a SK or... to a TPR.

Ok, so you really didn't read my reasons...

Congratulations! This is the EXACT REASON we must out him. The Survivor will instantly want to counterclaim, because he doesn't want to wait for the other guy to be "confirmed survivor" as a liar and get lynched as soon as he claims. Which will make him CC, which will out him, we'll know who he is so he will be under a constant lynch threat if he doesn't help town. Like WTF, you think I'd claim Castro as scum right away on D1 to maintain that claim? Way too risky.

[Ganelon]

I want to know your plans. When I asked you to stop shitposting, you replied with a shitpost:

'Do you think Leon Trotsky and Lenin should claim D1?' 'Should we Lynch d1?'

I also want to know why you're town-reading me in spite of my rather poor strategies, which some people - blinkskater, for example - noted could be indicative of scum.

[naz]

@naz who would you lynch if the day ended right now?

nobody or an afk if distorted can't replace them
4 scums v 8 towns
more than likely we will lynch town, and we need as many of them as we can

[Unknown1234]

He could also give away the TPRs by trying to confirm himself, which is, again, why it was a bad play revealing himself as the least pro-town TPR.
Not everyone has posted yet, nor has it it been 24hrs yet, I don't need to give reads yet.

I’m not arguing the play was a smart one, I’m arguing that I don’t think it’s a scum play. I don’t see why they would claim a role that could confirm itself.

[Ganelon]

Ok, so you really didn't read my reasons...

Congratulations! This is the EXACT REASON we must out him. The Survivor will instantly want to counterclaim, because he doesn't want to wait for the other guy to be "confirmed survivor" as a liar and get lynched as soon as he claims. Which will make him CC, which will out him, we'll know who he is so he will be under a constant lynch threat if he doesn't help town. Like WTF, you think I'd claim Castro as scum right away on D1 to maintain that claim? Way too risky.

Interestingly enough, Voss, whom you've taken an inspiration from, was scum that game, and he did that (or so I've heard? I might be wrong here so don't quote me on this).

[Unknown1234]

nobody or an afk if distorted can't replace them
4 scums v 8 towns
more than likely we will lynch town, and we need as many of them as we can

Wouldn’t you rather lynch a scum though if you could find one? That being said, I can’t support no lynching because there’s a potential that we’re waiting for information that may not come.

[Unknown1234]

Interestingly enough, Voss, whom you've taken an inspiration from, was scum that game, and he did that (or so I've heard? I might be wrong here so don't quote me on this).

He was, and I buddies with him for the majority of the game until I realized his fake act. I won’t make that mistake again.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I want to know your plans. When I asked you to stop shitposting, you replied with a shitpost:

'Do you think Leon Trotsky and Lenin should claim D1?' 'Should we Lynch d1?'

It's not a shitpost. It's because some people (like blink) tend to claim a lot and encourage mass claiming. So yeah, it's good to establish that we must not get these roles out. Plus, if a new player has them, they must be warned. I said that because I was Trotsky the first game I played this setup, and I claimed D1. BAD IDEA.

Lynch D1 is something to discuss at start of game, and it had to be out of the way. Fielzanks didn't want to lynch D1, which makes me right about asking that. What is shitpostish in all that?

My "plans" are to read the game for now lol, I don't know where's the game going yet.

[TheGodDavid]

So not that I disagree with anything you’re saying, but to build on these points that you’ve given,

1.) what about not understanding roles has made you think Magoroth is scum?

2.) Do you believe rumox’s claim? What do you think about the people that had been voting him before (naz and aamirus, if I remember correctly).

3.) Do you think MM and Magoroth are paired? This is possible, as I’ve noticed that Magoroth seems more engaged with me when There hasn’t been focus on MM, but Magoroth has been more proactive and genuinely seems to be scum-hunting.

1. Perhaps he is trying to feign ignorance to make himself look more like a townie

2. Yes. There is no other role in the game that can check visits, we will know if he is FAKE NEWS d2. I doubt a scum would hardclaim this role.
No comment on Naz or aamirus for the time being

3. It's a possibility, I am unsure right now.

[Ganelon]

It's not a shitpost. It's because some people (like blink) tend to claim a lot and encourage mass claiming. So yeah, it's good to establish that we must not get these roles out. Plus, if a new player has them, they must be warned. I said that because I was Trotsky the first game I played this setup, and I claimed D1. BAD IDEA.

Lynch D1 is something to discuss at start of game, and it had to be out of the way. Fielzanks didn't want to lynch D1, which makes me right about asking that. What is shitpostish in all that?

My "plans" are to read the game for now lol, I don't know where's the game going yet.

Fair enough.

[Ganelon]

1. Perhaps he is trying to feign ignorance to make himself look more like a townie

2. Yes. There is no other role in the game that can check visits, we will know if he is FAKE NEWS d2. I doubt a scum would hardclaim this role.
No comment on Naz or aamirus for the time being

3. It's a possibility, I am unsure right now.

I want to know who you want to Lynch, though.

[Fielzanks]

aamirus is my next vote, but I’ve been holding off because he hasn’t been around. No point voting someone who isn’t even here to discuss with.

If not voting aamirus, where does your next scum-read go? What do you think about Lenneth voting with you?

^I haven't even noticed. Lenneth is null-read, not much participation and buddying with MM (you'll notice he's voting the one who vote on MM) My next scum read would be either David, for refusing to get involved when we've told him multiple time to point out what he was thinking to see how he do react to real pressure. You already have pressured naz for me and I got the information I needed

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Interestingly enough, Voss, whom you've taken an inspiration from, was scum that game, and he did that (or so I've heard? I might be wrong here so don't quote me on this).

Indeed, and where you heard it is from me I also said the goal was pro-town: to get the survivor to claim, because his revolution can destroy the Town. He expected to get town points... but I think he got lynched for it

[Ganelon]

He was, and I buddies with him for the majority of the game until I realized his fake act. I won’t make that mistake again.

Haha ^^ Voss is a great guy, I love him.

[Unknown1234]

Haha ^^ Voss is a great guy, I love him.

Me and @Voss have a great bond, and I goofed because of it =)

[naz]

Wouldn’t you rather lynch a scum though if you could find one? That being said, I can’t support no lynching because there’s a potential that we’re waiting for information that may not come.

Sure. Which is why I voted rumox since I see his play as pro scum, and that he gamethrew as town last game

[TheGodDavid]

I want to know who you want to Lynch, though.

None today.
There is a 7/12 chance for me to lynch the wrong person plus there has been two inactive people

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Why would someone fake claim a town role especially if they can't prove it
I don't see any mafia or neutral roles that can check visits
so I would like to believe his claim for now

To... gain trust ? In the mod, when you're scum, do you claim your real role? I don't think so o.O plus I didn't say he was obviously scum, but I didn't mention something else too: Sleeper agent BECOMES A MAFIOSO if he gets attacked. He's a land mine once revealed. Tell me why we should keep that role, please.

Just saying: I have no intent of being rude at you, I just want to know your thoughts more. @TheGodDavid

[Fielzanks]

None today.
There is a 7/12 chance for me to lynch the wrong person plus there has been two inactive people

Do you know that if we don't lynch today, and lynch one mafia tomorrow, we're in a 4v4 day 3 ?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Exactly. It would be impossible for me to prove if I was fake-claiming

Wait, really, you come on that... You could simply "target" a scummate and magic! you're right! you get the CONFIRMED TOWNIE label and carry scumteam easily.

[Fielzanks]

To... gain trust ? In the mod, when you're scum, do you claim your real role? I don't think so o.O plus I didn't say he was obviously scum, but I didn't mention something else too: Sleeper agent BECOMES A MAFIOSO if he gets attacked. He's a land mine once revealed. Tell me why we should keep that role, please.

Just saying: I have no intent of being rude at you, I just want to know your thoughts more. @TheGodDavid

To support Mag's claim, I often claim BD on the mod when godfather. I cannot confirm myself as such or anything close to that but it still works when you only need a night or two to win. Which is the case here.

[Ganelon]

Spoiler : cvote :

naz, Marshmallow Marshall, aamirus, Fielzanks, TheGodDavid, Lenneth,blinkskater, Unknown1234, rumox, Magoroth

[Ganelon]

Do you know that if we don't lynch today, and lynch one mafia tomorrow, we're in a 4v4 day 3 ?

Jeez I didn't realise that.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm strongly against lynching day 1 because that will almost *surely* send us straight to MyLo, unless Stalin is smart enough to kill a Mafia d1, but I don't think we should count on that

Nightkills are very unstable in this setup. JFK's night action, Lenin, Stalin, Mafia factional kill.... Not lynching makes us lose our most valuable weapon. We can't roll without a lynch.

[Ganelon]

Spoiler : cvote :

naz, Marshmallow Marshall, aamirus, Fielzanks, TheGodDavid, Lenneth,blinkskater, Unknown1234, rumox, Magoroth

blinkskater, David and Lenneth are pretty much null reads for me at the moment

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Night 1 theory, pretty simple.

JFK will use his heat ability N1 and gain an extra kill for Capitalists on N2.
Stalin will use his heat ability to figure out someones role N1.

There will be only 1 kill tonight. Wont be me because I am going to be healed so Capitalists wont waste a night attacking me.

N2 will probably be a 3 person kill night. YUGE.

This is probably right. However, Stalin might want to get his kill N1 to get a Mafia ASAP... because Mafia is his mortal enemy.

[rumox]

Spoiler : cvote :

naz, Marshmallow Marshall, aamirus, Fielzanks, TheGodDavid, Lenneth,blinkskater, Unknown1234, rumox, Magoroth

Respectable readings. Jump in my pocket.

[rumox]

Sure. Which is why I voted rumox since I see his play as pro scum, and that he gamethrew as town last game

You really haven't thought it over have you. God I can't wait to release my LW