S-FM 194: Return to Normalcy Mini

[Iced_Monopoly]

Yuki: very short, dull answers. Refuses to give any opinion towards others, and half the stuff Yuki says is very weird and I don't know how relevant it is. Second choice for lynch.

This is Yuki's regular play - It takes a bit of effort to get useful information

[Yukitaka Oni]

Vote Count 1.0

Firebringer (1 [L-4]):
Calix
Yukitaka Oni (1 [L-4]):
Iced_Monopoly
AIVION (1 [L-4]):
Unknown1234
Unknown1234 (2 [L-3]):
DarknessB, AIVION
Iced_Monopoly (1 [L-4]):
Firebringer

Hello town calix

[Unknown1234]

Because you have interpretted it the way it was intended, just a question posed to yuki to gain his perspective on the idea, so you ignored it. Calix instead has launched into it looking to dissolve it rather aggresively. Whilst I wouldnt vote either of you, or darkness on this concept, I would be inclined to vote calix purely for her reaction. But I wont, not yet at least.

This is where you Quoted right? Or meant to rather.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Is Yuki like this with the creepy one sentence posts and acting as if no one should die? This is the biggest scum lean for me.

Creepy i am......scummy I'm not.....but indeed....i do....enjoy the void.....this time

[Whad]

He is most likely referring to the beginning of the game, where I said that DB was slight town for appearing like his usual self.

Yes please explain this.

[Calix]

Yes please explain this.

It was a meta read. Given that DB has a reputation for being obvious scum, the fact that I wasn't getting that impression made me think that he is more likely to be town.

Currently I am back to thinking he is town and was just preoccupied/ emotional and not as scummy as I first thought during the fight we had. But I'll have to reread because it's approaching 3am for me.

Whad, you've made 2 (?) out of 3 (?) posts on this insignificant read; are you going to do anything else? Reads on everyone would be good for when I wake up.

Anyway, goodnight.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Well. I'm off then, seem like it's boring without vet player online

[Mesk514]

Sorry. I thought there were two people who didn't speak yet, my bad.

you know i spoke tho, just throwing that out there ;)

Since je suis dans la lune, I am just going to reply with quotes of things that I find interesting because I am not trying to write a long schpeel.

[Iced_Monopoly]

So what ARE your views now? What do YOU personally make of the alignments of everyone?

READS

2. @AIVION
Was initially willing to dismiss his early posts as they centered around a potential attempt to garner sympathy, however his later interactions with Unknown became more interesting, especially the flip on the 'reaction test' and Noob alibi. It appears to me an attempt to cover the previously meaningless posts, although does raise a good point in relation to Unknowns filler and shitposts. Currently leaning Unaligned/Light Scum.

3. @Mesk514
Has not returned to post since claiming she was reading, Unaligned for now until content is posted.

4. @Yukitaka Oni
As usual Yuki meta, posts arbitrary content that doesnt contribute to discussion. A number of posts are instead shitposts related to a showdown between several players and encouraging that. Has avoided several of mine, and other players questions, instead opting to hide between the fight that was going down between calix and fire - admitted to this too. If Yuki wasnt naturally a wild/neutral card, id put him there, but for now hes just going straight in the scum pile until he contributes something useful (Im not optimistic for a day 1 contribution, but hoping for d2+)

5. @Unknown1234
Early posting indicated overt defensivess under minor pressure. Didnt react well when poked about a mostly innocent question. Has continued to pressure avion, which has not garnered as much attention from fire as calix gained from fire when broaching the topic of Avion. Despite to a degree being ignored/not as loud as some other players, but continuing to post and not using it as an excuse to lurk, would place Light/Medium Town.

6. @Whad
Since joining has only asked 1 question regarding darkness in calix's town pile, didnt receive an answer and hasnt pursued. Potentially trying to appear active and involved despite wanting to fly under the radar - Only a thought, too little information to go on. Unaligned for now.

7. @Calix
Initially set to be neutral, remaining mostly impartial and mediating/encouraging discussion. Began engaging more thoroughly with other players as the game picked up pace. Style appears to be more defensive/personal than what im used to seeing (but meta is discounted in reads given my low play count). Expecting a more in depth investigation into player interactions and posting come day 2. Light/Medium Town.

8. @DarknessB
Has mostly moved to analyse and question posts, providing a platform for early discussion. The argument that arose between him and fire seemed more personal than in-game related and as a result is unlikely to be representative of role alignment. His posts before leaving were emotional/passionate, pressure will be most advantageous to prying information in coming days. For now Unaligned/Light town read.

9. @Firebringer
Seeming ready to instigate an arguement or delve into discussion on topics with almost any player. Potentially reaction testing players and guaging responses to mark against future posts, seems town aligned although his innability to answer Calix's question regarding his defense of aivon (on multiple occasions) leaves me with a unaligned/light scum read.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Well. I'm off then, seem like it's boring without vet player online

This is counterproductive to town, you have the opportunity to post thoughts, ideas, reads, pretty much anything. By leaving because the 'vets' are gone is stifling discussion and anti-town behavior

[Unknown1234]

This is counterproductive to town, you have the opportunity to post thoughts, ideas, reads, pretty much anything. By leaving because the 'vets' are gone is stifling discussion and anti-town behavior

Calix and Firebringer is gone, so it is a perfect time for the people not talking to get in here and say something (Whad,Mesk,Yuki)

[Mesk514]

I has thoughts yes, and If this was the mod the game would look like this!

Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Any Random
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Neutral

Any Random = Exclude Triad,Mafia,Neutral.

So in other words this is gonna be pretty interesting! I agree with what Calix said though about The Neutral being a Neutral Killer... That wouldn't be fun. But if we have enough protections/Investigatives It could counteract this aspect though. But it also leaves room for unbalanced situations too.

When I first read this I looked at it and was like okay this can mean
A) We have to be careful of the Neut as there's the possibility it's a killing one.
B) We don't know for certain what anything is we could have 3 protect, 1 investigative, 1 killing, and 1 power which would be pretty stacked for up for town

== Aivion is just pointing out some things that could be useful. I don't see any harm in that. It sparks people's curiosity. It is actually useful in my opinion.

[Mesk514]

Let's move away from the banal, shall we?

Initial impressions of DarknessB and myself, please.

I like how Calix is ready to change the gears and direct the conversation. It shows initiative and good motivations in my opinion.

[Whad]

It was a meta read. Given that DB has a reputation for being obvious scum, the fact that I wasn't getting that impression made me think that he is more likely to be town.

Currently I am back to thinking he is town and was just preoccupied/ emotional and not as scummy as I first thought during the fight we had. But I'll have to reread because it's approaching 3am for me.

Whad, you've made 2 (?) out of 3 (?) posts on this insignificant read; are you going to do anything else? Reads on everyone would be good for when I wake up.

Anyway, goodnight.

I have been busy catching up on the whole thread so far and have finally finished.

At the current moment, I think you are really scummy and there are a few things I would like you to clear up.

1. Your scummy play regarding Firebringer's Jester claim

Firebringer claiming Jester and then a mafia claim with you as a scumbuddy seems like bad townplay, but townplay nonetheless. His play does not seem consistent with a jester, or a neutral and thus I find your post quoted below to be particularly weak:

It's removing a Neutral slot - and that's in the 'worst-case' scenario that you are Jester. I'm not wasting time with scum roles pretending to be Jester to get a pass.

Neutral dying means we come into Day 2 with the Mafia left. That is IT. Killing a claimed Neutral makes perfect sense.

This next quote of yours really bothers me since you say that lynching Firebringer means the "worst case scenario" is lynching a Jester. It makes me think that you are mafia and know that Firebringer is not your ally. Worst case scenario for a genuine townsperson would be lynching a townie. It's very interesting to me that you go straight to the mafia mindset where the worst case scenario is where you have helped lynch a jester and might succumb to jester grief:

Think through the numbers, idiot.

We're at 6v2v1. Worst-case scenario, the Jester is lynched, a town dies and the mafia succeeds in their kill. 4v2 (MYLO) That effectively grants us TWO DAYS' worth of chat with NO fear of a Neutral.

Why does Iced bother you so? And what did you make of our interactions, given that you think both of us are scummy?

2. Voting with AIVION your scum suspect

I think your reaction to Firebringer hard defending your scumsuspect AIVION is reasonable. However, it rubs me the wrong way that you then vote for Firebringer on a train WITH your biggest scumsuspect AIVION. This reads to me like distancing yourself from a potential scumbuddy (AIVION) and subtly pushing for a wagon on Firebringer who is a big talker in the town.

3. I am a bit null on DarknessB at the moment. There are a couple things he has posted that either read manipulative scum trying to get townpoints or actual town trying to be helpful. I'm trying to get a good feeling from you (since you have played with him before) on which case it seems to be.

Here are some of the posts that I am talking about:

Removal of what investigatives? Sheriff is listed as one of the possible Town roles, as are Detective and Lookout.

We don't even know if we have a Jailor -- sacrificing a lynch to depend on night action luck would be insane.

Policy lynching should be a LAST resort. If someone doesn't meet the posting threshold, then that can be raised with the host in a PM and then the host should replace them -- it's far more of a game administration issue and will detract from scumhunting. In the first instance, we should not be wasting time lynching those who are not even around to defend themselves.

No, I think having TPRs out themselves is a terrible idea.

DarknessB, I don't expect any sort of response from you about these quotes, but I will be paying attention to see if you step up your content from simply stating the obvious.

[Iced_Monopoly]

This is where you Quoted right? Or meant to rather.

Yes that was the post that was supposed to have a quote of Fire where he had asked why I wasnt voting him

[Whad]

Well. I'm off then, seem like it's boring without vet player online

This is pretty unhelpful. What do you think of my scum read on Calix?

[Whad]

Also before I forget

-vote Calix

[Mesk514]

2. Voting with AIVION your scum suspect

I think your reaction to Firebringer hard defending your scumsuspect AIVION is reasonable. However, it rubs me the wrong way that you then vote for Firebringer on a train WITH your biggest scumsuspect AIVION. This reads to me like distancing yourself from a potential scumbuddy (AIVION) and subtly pushing for a wagon on Firebringer who is a big talker in the town.

I think both Calix and Aivion have brought up some good point, their heads clashing isn't what strikes me as scum.
both you and these two are looking into the situation a little bit too deep.

Fire bringers claim doesn't shock me to be honest. I'm kind of jealous.

Brb dinner, sorry guys... I'm more of a night person.... catch me more active after 10 mountain time.

[Whad]

Iced_Monopoly since you are around and I have pretty good faith in your towniness what do you think of my suspicions on Calix and my read that Firebringer is town playing poorly?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Here are some of the posts that I am talking about:

Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
Removal of what investigatives? Sheriff is listed as one of the possible Town roles, as are Detective and Lookout.

That comment was specifically to clear up for me that the Investigator had been removed from setup, not Investigatives as I had misread.

You also wrote

There are a couple things he has posted that either read manipulative scum trying to get townpoints or actual town trying to be helpful

Do you identify which ones are scum playing town and town playing town, or are you simply grouping them all as possibly either, because the latter seems less useful

[Whad]

I think both Calix and Aivion have brought up some good point, their heads clashing isn't what strikes me as scum.
both you and these two are looking into the situation a little bit too deep.

Fire bringers claim doesn't shock me to be honest. I'm kind of jealous.

Brb dinner, sorry guys... I'm more of a night person.... catch me more active after 10 mountain time.

Are you counterclaiming the neutral role?

[Whad]

That comment was specifically to clear up for me that the Investigator had been removed from setup, not Investigatives as I had misread.

You also wrote

Do you identify which ones are scum playing town and town playing town, or are you simply grouping them all as possibly either, because the latter seems less useful

I found all of the posts from DarknessB that I quoted to be restating stuff that should be obvious from the setup OR from any sort of common sense regarding playing mafia. They did strike me deeply as scum playing town and posting these basic common sense posts to seem to be participating while not contributing much new information or analysis.

However, I am trying my hardest to reconcile my scum read on him with the general game opinion that he is town.

[Mesk514]

Are you counterclaiming the neutral role?

No, I just love being the centre of attention when I call out random claims like he did. I mean it's not random but I see what he's doing.

[Unknown1234]

Anyways, I'm off for the night. I am leaving my vote on AIVION for the reasons I have already posted.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Iced_Monopoly since you are around and I have pretty good faith in your towniness what do you think of my suspicions on Calix and my read that Firebringer is town playing poorly?

Your case on my 'towniness' seems odd, as youve not reasoned the alignment, especially given other players are reading me scum. Im reading that in itself as an attempt at buddying, whether looking for votes, or hoping for a mislynch by association down the line should you flip red, but I am most very likely over reading that.

In regards to your theories on calix, I hadnt taken into consideration too heavily on her position when she discussed outcomes from a jester lynch. I can see your associations with a red alignment, but I also dont believe Calix would make it so easy to out her if that were the case. Im almost inclined to believe shes the neutral, the way she continues to insinuate others may be it (especially fire), she might be looking for a red trying to disguise as her role. This would fit with her earlier neut/agressive play, which may translate to an executioner. Getting cred for outing a fake neut and then lynching her target with that cred. But nonetheless, you made some interesting observations.

In regards to fire playing town poorly, im not convinced, if hes town and playing this way, then hes likely a citizen IMO. Trying to garner information to deduce scum, whilst also appearing as a potential night kill so actual TPRs arent hit. Like I mentioned in my read though, his aivion-question-interactions are troubling.

[Whad]

No, I just love being the centre of attention when I call out random claims like he did. I mean it's not random but I see what he's doing.

Can you provide a list of your reads on the players? I am also curious what you think of Unknown's behavior so far.

[Iced_Monopoly]

As a subnote, after reading Whads post, and looking closer at calix's post as a result, I move her to neutral/light town on my reads list on p13.

[Whad]

Your case on my 'towniness' seems odd, as youve not reasoned the alignment, especially given other players are reading me scum. Im reading that in itself as an attempt at buddying, whether looking for votes, or hoping for a mislynch by association down the line should you flip red, but I am most very likely over reading that.

In regards to your theories on calix, I hadnt taken into consideration too heavily on her position when she discussed outcomes from a jester lynch. I can see your associations with a red alignment, but I also dont believe Calix would make it so easy to out her if that were the case. Im almost inclined to believe shes the neutral, the way she continues to insinuate others may be it (especially fire), she might be looking for a red trying to disguise as her role. This would fit with her earlier neut/agressive play, which may translate to an executioner. Getting cred for outing a fake neut and then lynching her target with that cred. But nonetheless, you made some interesting observations.

In regards to fire playing town poorly, im not convinced, if hes town and playing this way, then hes likely a citizen IMO. Trying to garner information to deduce scum, whilst also appearing as a potential night kill so actual TPRs arent hit. Like I mentioned in my read though, his aivion-question-interactions are troubling.

I think fully explaining my townreads is anti-town, but I'm pretty sure I know your role and everything you are doing is only confirming it in my mind. If you want me to explain, I can, but I'd rather focus the microscope on my scum reads than on my town reads.

Regarding Calix, your theory about an executioner is interesting. I guess it would depend on Firebringer's actual role. Can you provide me a baseline on your general opinion of Firebringer's typical FM play?

[Whad]

Let's get a pressure train going on Calix. It really rubs me the wrong way that she disappears right after I called her out.

[Iced_Monopoly]

I think fully explaining my townreads is anti-town, but I'm pretty sure I know your role and everything you are doing is only confirming it in my mind. If you want me to explain, I can, but I'd rather focus the microscope on my scum reads than on my town reads.

Regarding Calix, your theory about an executioner is interesting. I guess it would depend on Firebringer's actual role. Can you provide me a baseline on your general opinion of Firebringer's typical FM play?

From what ive seen and played with of fire, this is reasonably similar to his typical style (im certainly not an expert on meta and this is only my own personal interactions with him). But he usually assumes the role of leader, he's very vocal and often drives lynches. He can bus rather well, and so its important to focus on all his interactions with each player. When lynching someone, he dredges up everything youve posted thats even mildly ambigious and tailors it to his cause. Can be persausive, but can sometimes just be an ass.

^ Love you still Fire

[Iced_Monopoly]

Let's get a pressure train going on Calix. It really rubs me the wrong way that she disappears right after I called her out.

She had stated at game start she wasnt going to be online long, that was 4ish hours ago, and she recently said it was 3am for her and she was going to bed. I think it was just a coincidence she left when she did in regards to your post. Im sure you'll get answers when she awakens

[Firebringer]

Hey guys I am here for like 10 minutes. WHats up?

[Firebringer]

No, I just love being the centre of attention when I call out random claims like he did. I mean it's not random but I see what he's doing.

You like being the center of attention? You are going to step up your game if you want to compete with me darling.

[Firebringer]

From what ive seen and played with of fire, this is reasonably similar to his typical style (im certainly not an expert on meta and this is only my own personal interactions with him). But he usually assumes the role of leader, he's very vocal and often drives lynches. He can bus rather well, and so its important to focus on all his interactions with each player. When lynching someone, he dredges up everything youve posted thats even mildly ambigious and tailors it to his cause. Can be persausive, but can sometimes just be an ass.

^ Love you still Fire

Meh this is a fair assessment, though I don't really like to buss. I can't honestly remember the last time I hardcore did it. In decisions I did it because like that was only lynch happening and it 100% was happening.

[Firebringer]

Your case on my 'towniness' seems odd, as youve not reasoned the alignment, especially given other players are reading me scum. Im reading that in itself as an attempt at buddying, whether looking for votes, or hoping for a mislynch by association down the line should you flip red, but I am most very likely over reading that.

In regards to your theories on calix, I hadnt taken into consideration too heavily on her position when she discussed outcomes from a jester lynch. I can see your associations with a red alignment, but I also dont believe Calix would make it so easy to out her if that were the case. Im almost inclined to believe shes the neutral, the way she continues to insinuate others may be it (especially fire), she might be looking for a red trying to disguise as her role. This would fit with her earlier neut/agressive play, which may translate to an executioner. Getting cred for outing a fake neut and then lynching her target with that cred. But nonetheless, you made some interesting observations.

In regards to fire playing town poorly, im not convinced, if hes town and playing this way, then hes likely a citizen IMO. Trying to garner information to deduce scum, whilst also appearing as a potential night kill so actual TPRs arent hit. Like I mentioned in my read though, his aivion-question-interactions are troubling.

Why are you doing this stuff?

[Mesk514]

Your case on my 'towniness' seems odd, as youve not reasoned the alignment, especially given other players are reading me scum. Im reading that in itself as an attempt at buddying, whether looking for votes, or hoping for a mislynch by association down the line should you flip red, but I am most very likely over reading that.

In regards to your theories on calix, I hadnt taken into consideration too heavily on her position when she discussed outcomes from a jester lynch. I can see your associations with a red alignment, but I also dont believe Calix would make it so easy to out her if that were the case. Im almost inclined to believe shes the neutral, the way she continues to insinuate others may be it (especially fire), she might be looking for a red trying to disguise as her role. This would fit with her earlier neut/agressive play, which may translate to an executioner. Getting cred for outing a fake neut and then lynching her target with that cred. But nonetheless, you made some interesting observations.

In regards to fire playing town poorly, im not convinced, if hes town and playing this way, then hes likely a citizen IMO. Trying to garner information to deduce scum, whilst also appearing as a potential night kill so actual TPRs arent hit. Like I mentioned in my read though, his aivion-question-interactions are troubling.

I don't think you're over reading it. I can see some sheeping going on..... BAAAAAAAAHBAAAAAAAAH
i mean, there's definitely motivation there, and it's kind of lazy so it can be played off with an easy defence if you flip green.

I agree. Calix doesn't strike me as evil or the type of person who would be evil and put herself on the line there. Whad just made an in-depth comment on really nothing. They're clashing heads, I see good motives from both, they're most likely town to me.

[Mesk514]

You like being the center of attention? You are going to step up your game if you want to compete with me darling.

BUT THAT'S WHY I SAID I WAS JEALOUS

[Firebringer]

I don't think you're over reading it. I can see some sheeping going on..... BAAAAAAAAHBAAAAAAAAH
i mean, there's definitely motivation there, and it's kind of lazy so it can be played off with an easy defence if you flip green.

I agree. Calix doesn't strike me as evil or the type of person who would be evil and put herself on the line there. Whad just made an in-depth comment on really nothing. They're clashing heads, I see good motives from both, they're most likely town to me.

I would hardly call Whad case nothing, it actually picks on some things I said but adds more depth. You don't see either of our points on Calix?

[Mesk514]

You don't see either of our points on Calix?

What exactly is your point?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Why are you doing this stuff?

Do what I want, son

[Firebringer]

What exactly is your point?

Umm she has some anti town comments in regards to a few things, like my "jester" claim. And then of course she votes me even though her scumread is on me. Which she doesn't say she is now or say any read change is involved. Its pretty scummy if you ask me.

[Firebringer]

Do what I want, son

I am your papa, now go to your room. You won't get super until you stop trying to out the power roles.

[Whad]

I don't think you're over reading it. I can see some sheeping going on..... BAAAAAAAAHBAAAAAAAAH
i mean, there's definitely motivation there, and it's kind of lazy so it can be played off with an easy defence if you flip green.

I agree. Calix doesn't strike me as evil or the type of person who would be evil and put herself on the line there. Whad just made an in-depth comment on really nothing. They're clashing heads, I see good motives from both, they're most likely town to me.

Mesk, can I press you for some examples behind your reasoning for why you said this? Please provide some quotes in your analysis.

[Mesk514]

Umm she has some anti town comments in regards to a few things, like my "jester" claim. And then of course she votes me even though her scumread is on me. Which she doesn't say she is now or say any read change is involved. Its pretty scummy if you ask me.

I don't think that whole lynch the jester thing is a big enough cloud of smoke to raise suspicion about her. Lynching the jester could be just as affect as blind voting day 1 if everyone votes. & for those who do shy away should raise suspicion. atlas it was kind of a stupid comment. I see your side of it but I also see her side as well.

[Firebringer]

I don't like that the only two person wagon going is on one of my townreads.

-vote Calix

I can jump back on this.

[Firebringer]

My gut is telling me Iced is town right now. Though I don't like it.
Leaves a bad taste in mouth. I am putting him back at null.

[Whad]

Firebringer, can you comment on what I said about DarknessB's common sense substance posts seeming like scum trying to seem helpful while not adding new analysis to the game?

[Firebringer]

DarknessB, I don't expect any sort of response from you about these quotes, but I will be paying attention to see if you step up your content from simply stating the obvious.

These are NAI, true they lack substance, but examine the fight I had with Darkness, its not so much reason based, but you can feel his emotions in the posts. They are genuine frustration at my actions, which at first I thought could be scum, but as he started lashing out at multiple people, yeah. It was town anger

[Mesk514]

Mesk, can I press you for some examples behind your reasoning for why you said this? Please provide some quotes in your analysis.

I can't really give you examples... but I don't think both calix and firebreaker are both pulling wifom on each other. As i said before, I understand Firebreakers side but i don't think it's likely.

[Firebringer]

I can't really give you examples... but I don't think both calix and firebreaker are both pulling wifom on each other. As i said before, I understand Firebreakers side but i don't think it's likely.

firebreaker huh? I like it
Anyways, I gotta go. Going to be off for the night for real now. Cya