S-FM 213: Wheels On The Bus

[Eggy]

Pls no. Pls no. Pls no. You're risking Eggy hammering to end day before risking things getting bloody.

Nice try lol im the person saying not to hammer before EOD you really think I wud contradict myself and hammer anyway?

[yzb25]

Nice try lol im the person saying not to hammer before EOD you really think I wud contradict myself and hammer anyway?

I'm using reverse psychology. Get gud scrub.

[BananaCucho]

Get fucked Grylander

[purebe]

I can't be the only person bothered that @powerofdeath says nothing and then just puts gyrlander at L-1. Can you at least give a reason?

[purebe]

Also I feel like things are going to shit if we lynch Gyrlander at this point

[Eggy]

Stereo is being such a hypocrite here. He's basically saying that even if there's a 80% of me being Town lynching is the only way to get anywhere so yeah! Let's lynch a most-probably town!

I'm sure that if he was on my situation he would say otherwise.

Calls me a sheep of orpz after calling orpz a sheep so is saying I sheeped a sheep? seems to be his only defence. Calls stereo a hypocrite when he is a hypocrite himself.

[Eggy]

I can't be the only person bothered that @powerofdeath says nothing and then just puts gyrlander at L-1. Can you at least give a reason?

Yea wtf 6 hours left in the day comes puts gyrl at L-1 when the lynch would most likely go through anyway then dissapears

[Unknown1234]

I didn't say he was too scummy to be scum. This was basically my conc:

"He's not actually bullshitting to seem townish, he's bullshitting to be flamboyant. "My shitposting has a master-plan"? Come on, gimme a fucking break lol.

Ultimately, this sort of roleplaying purely for the purposes of self-amusement serves no benefit to him as scum. I think his lack of care towards his own train and his terrible attitude if he actually is scum indicates he is in fact town."

Apologies if I was unclear. The thing is, this roleplaying is very obscure and unfamiliar, yet he's doing it simply because he finds it fun. Such intentionless "I did it for bants lulz" does not seem scummy to me. If a frequent lurker lurked like always and I townread him for that, that would be different lol.

Also, I'm not voting Gyrlander.

Anyway, @purebe Noone's accusing you of cheating dw lol

Because this conversation is really calm (for once) I'm actually happy.

Okay. I am reading this, and most of it seems to be about Orpz's play. You are saying scum would never do this, but the same should be said for town too.

So let me ask you, why do the things you think Orpz are town for make him Town compared to his normal play? I have played 1 game with Orpz, and he was town and played as town leader. I don't understand what your argument is because it seems to be all about his playstyle. If someone doesn't care much and plays the same both alignments, why would they go out of their way to change?

I will take a look at your Eggy case, but because it is so close to EOD and I don't particularly scum-read Egg I don't think it will gain any traction,

[Eggy]

@Unknown1234 come show me which posts of gyrls you find townish. I read through all of them and they all seem low effort and defensive which is not necessarily AI but If I was in his position I would try and defend myself way harder especially since there is only like 7 pages not like he diesnt have time to read and evaluate the situation.

[yzb25]

fluff for the most part not AI at all

Omg, you're actually going through every post and twisting it to look wrong on one level or another, without even bothering to connect your commentary to a scumtell sometimes.

Like, you're taking a page 1 post and criticizing it for being "fluff for the most part not AI at all"? WTF? Come on people the amount of bullshit he's sewing to make his vote on Gyrlander look like anything other than bumlicking BC is almost admirable.

[yzb25]

Because this conversation is really calm (for once) I'm actually happy.

Okay. I am reading this, and most of it seems to be about Orpz's play. You are saying scum would never do this, but the same should be said for town too.

So let me ask you, why do the things you think Orpz are town for make him Town compared to his normal play? I have played 1 game with Orpz, and he was town and played as town leader. I don't understand what your argument is because it seems to be all about his playstyle. If someone doesn't care much and plays the same both alignments, why would they go out of their way to change?

I will take a look at your Eggy case, but because it is so close to EOD and I don't particularly scum-read Egg I don't think it will gain any traction,

He is roleplaying a paranoid town scumreading people for ridiculous reasons and setting up faux masterplans for entertainment.

Do you think a scum would wifom a trollish town roleplaying a paranoid town scumreading people for ridiculous reasons and setting up faux masterplans for entertainment?

I do not, unless he is literally betting on another player analyzing his play just far enough to notice the roleplay but not the potential WIFOM, LOL.

[Unknown1234]

I found this strange. Why say this especially when hes saying finally as if he is always scum but now we shudnt worry because he is "finally" town. I am not very familiar with gyrls play but I dont think ive seen him do this before also I tend to dislike when people say their town in the begging. Stereo and purebe are relatively new so I didnt say anything. Also mesk does this all the time but thats is like 50% of her play everygame

I found this strange too, but I guess not the way you do.

Look at it this way. Gyrlander is always scum. (Overwatch, Artificial Intelligence, I can't remember the other game names) but he is almost never town. I can understand why he would say this, because he gets lynched a lot and he is scum a lot. I don't see why scum!Gyrlander posts this, and I genuinely believe he is happy that he actually isn't scum for a change.

Also, someone fucking Unvote. I'd Gyrlander is busdriver I want to see him claim it so we can stop this shit train. NO Hammering.

[Eggy]

Because this conversation is really calm (for once) I'm actually happy.

Okay. I am reading this, and most of it seems to be about Orpz's play. You are saying scum would never do this, but the same should be said for town too.

So let me ask you, why do the things you think Orpz are town for make him Town compared to his normal play? I have played 1 game with Orpz, and he was town and played as town leader. I don't understand what your argument is because it seems to be all about his playstyle. If someone doesn't care much and plays the same both alignments, why would they go out of their way to change?

I will take a look at your Eggy case, but because it is so close to EOD and I don't particularly scum-read Egg I don't think it will gain any traction,

he made a "case" on me from one post lol I dont know where to put YZ at the moment. I am leaning town because I feel like scum would try and push one of the trains unless orpz and gyrl are both scum but then yz wud have to be town. If YZ is scum with gyrl he would have kept his vote on irpz because that seems to be the only way to save gyrl at the moment. unless he is trying to throw his oartner under the bus to seem towny after flip but I doubt it

[Unknown1234]

Pls no. Pls no. Pls no. You're risking Eggy hammering to end day before risking things getting bloody.

TBH, you are making Eggy out to be worse than he is.

[yzb25]

Oh and, like Unknown, even if I get a little passionate, I don't actually hold any personal oppositions against anyone. It's all in the spirit of the game, so don't take it to heart, blahblahblah

[Orpz]

One of the main things that made me scumread Orpz at first is his bullshitting.



Take the above example: "strategic shitposting" by "setting an uncomfortable tone"? WTF? That joke he did at the start where he literally gave free townreads only helped to make people very comfortable. It gave them a great way to make hollow posts that contribute no alignment indicative info.

That aside, he obviously didn't have some masterplan to make his shitposts and shitreplies meaningful. He was just shitreplying because he couldn't be bothered to give actual, substantial replies.

The other thing is his aggression:



Note the passive-aggressive "Fascinating..." and the snarky attitude. As was well-established later, Gyrlander did not make a dramatic or aggressive defense. Hell, he barely defended himself. He was just making reasonable points about the train on him. So painting Gyrlander's post as an "aggressive defense" is ridiculous and aggressive in-and-of-itself.

These two elements together, his bullshitting and his aggression, make him look like a scum misrepping towns unfairly to encourage mislynches, while looking like a town contributing. However, I think this is a huge misread of what's going on.



Here, he's misrepping Purebe, but not to portray him as a scum - to portray him as a cheater. How does that help his play as scum? Your misreps are supposed to make people look scummy. Cheaters aren't necessarily mafia.

Bear with me for a moment - Have you ever bullshit others / made up a bullshit persona purely for the mild amusement you get from being ridiculous for no reason? That's Orpz. Constantly. He's not misrepping people to appear like a town scumhunting or to misrep town, he's misrepping people to roleplay and troll. Which is why he showed bullshit aggression to Purebe over cheating.

The same goes for the bullshitting thing. He's not actually bullshitting to seem townish, he's bullshitting to be flamboyant. "My shitposting has a master-plan"? Come on, gimme a fucking break lol.

Ultimately, this sort of roleplaying purely for the purposes of self-amusement serves no benefit to him as scum. I think his lack of care towards his own train and his terrible attitude if he actually is scum indicates he is in fact town.

Yes, I'm townreading him for misrepping and bullshitting. Come at me faggot.

-unvote

Ah, I see. The WIFOM game you're playing is Chess. Unfortunately I am playing 23 Dimensional Blindfolded Backgammon.

I'm heading out in a bit, so I won't address your posts until I'm free again. Actually, I don't think it's a relevant point of conversation anymore. You're free to continue to speculate on my early Day 1 shitposting but seeing as how I intend to take the game seriously from here, I don't feel it to be related enough to the game.

Also I have no idea what you meant by my aggression to Purebe. I never once thought he was intentionally cheating; 99% of the time people edit posts are because they didn't know it was against the rules.

"Fascinating..." is an allusion to Aizen, who might be the only good thing left about Bleach after that god awful ending.

[yzb25]

TBH, you are making Eggy out to be worse than he is.

Awwh come on don't pick on the one weak thing I said about him and ignore the big-ass wallpost

[Eggy]

Omg, you're actually going through every post and twisting it to look wrong on one level or another, without even bothering to connect your commentary to a scumtell sometimes.

Like, you're taking a page 1 post and criticizing it for being "fluff for the most part not AI at all"? WTF? Come on people the amount of bullshit he's sewing to make his vote on Gyrlander look like anything other than bumlicking BC is almost admirable.

I went through like all his posts because he made like a total of 6. I have stated many times that the main reason I dont mind lynching gyrl is because Banana refuses to vite anyone else which will be very problematic as the game progresses. Unknown asked me to go through all his posts so I did. I also said I might be abit bias but you seem to keep forgetting that. You have done a pretty good job of misrepping me repeatedly

[yzb25]

Ah, I see. The WIFOM game you're playing is Chess. Unfortunately I am playing 23 Dimensional Blindfolded Backgammon.

I'm heading out in a bit, so I won't address your posts until I'm free again. Actually, I don't think it's a relevant point of conversation anymore. You're free to continue to speculate on my early Day 1 shitposting but seeing as how I intend to take the game seriously from here, I don't feel it to be related enough to the game.

Also I have no idea what you meant by my aggression to Purebe. I never once thought he was intentionally cheating; 99% of the time people edit posts are because they didn't know it was against the rules.

"Fascinating..." is an allusion to Aizen, who might be the only good thing left about Bleach after that god awful ending.

Bruh, ik you didn't think Purebe was cheating. You were trolling. I geddit man... I think...

That "Fascinating..." thing is a reference an obscure pop reference? This completely undermines my entire read on you

[Orpz]

Ah, I see. The WIFOM game you're playing is Chess. Unfortunately I am playing 23 Dimensional Blindfolded Backgammon.

I'm heading out in a bit, so I won't address your posts until I'm free again. Actually, I don't think it's a relevant point of conversation anymore. You're free to continue to speculate on my early Day 1 shitposting but seeing as how I intend to take the game seriously from here, I don't feel it to be related enough to the game.

Also I have no idea what you meant by my aggression to Purebe. I never once thought he was intentionally cheating; 99% of the time people edit posts are because they didn't know it was against the rules.

"Fascinating..." is an allusion to Aizen, who might be the only good thing left about Bleach after that god awful ending.

From several hours ago* actually, I only trolled for like a few hours at the start of the game.

[Unknown1234]

calls people pathetic for not putting in any effort but literally is the person on the chopping block and has put in 0 effort to try and defend themselves or suggest better lynches. Hypocrisy at its finest. Resorts to insults to defend himself

Fairly certain that he was saying someone who put no effort in used a lousy excuse to join a train. I don't think he has the right to discredit others for stuff he does.

Look at his more recent posts. What do you think of them? I'm pretty sure Scum!Gyrlander doesn't consider any logic and usually afks when he is about to be lynched. I'm like, 90% he's not scum right now.

I will look at his posts as well in the meantime.

[yzb25]

I went through like all his posts because he made like a total of 6. I have stated many times that the main reason I dont mind lynching gyrl is because Banana refuses to vite anyone else which will be very problematic as the game progresses. Unknown asked me to go through all his posts so I did. I also said I might be abit bias but you seem to keep forgetting that. You have done a pretty good job of misrepping me repeatedly

He asked you to pick out what seems scummy in his posts. He didn't ask for an ISO in which you make weak arg.s on everything. You stretched really hard to make that ISO work. I am not the one stretching for pointing that out >.>

[Eggy]

Eggy, much like Orpz, bullshits a lot here. For context, Eggy said "I dont like how gyrl responded to pressure.", I asked him to elaborate, and then he posted the above post.

At this point, Gyrl had only said the following posts in response to the pressure on him, on page 3:





Eggy claims Gyrlander "only complains about how votes are unfair", yet Gyrlander never even brought up fairness. He claims Gyrlander engages in "just whining and calling everyone a sheep", but there is nothing to indicate his tone is whiny. He tells Orpz to stop being dumb/sheepish but that's quite different.

So, just bullshitting like Orpz? No.

It's not just flamboyant extravaganza for the purposes of amusing roleplay - that's not in Eggy's personality anyway. This is different.

Let me give you some context: In the last game I played with Eggy, I jokingly suggested to PL Eggy. After that, Eggy wrote nine posts completely centered on me and how obvs scum I was. He placed a vote on me and was openly hostile to me. We were 10 pages in and, after reading through the entire thread, Eggy only talked about me, me, me.

Eggy was town that game.

Eggy's response was not rational. Eggy did not propose other targets. Eggy did not meet the standards he creates in this post. In fact, he completely shit all over the standards. He expects Gyrlander to have awesome alternate lynches on page 3 and a rational response, even though he knows this is in no way how a town acts. Especially a town like Gyrlander.

This criticism of Gyrlander is completely fabricated for personal convenience. It is not a reflection of how he actually tries to read people when he's town. In fact, he tries to read people by projecting himself onto others: "I'd do that if I was town." "Man, I wouldn't do that if I was town". Yet he's doing nothing like that here. This is bullshit with malicious intent and calculated lying - he's fabricated ridiculous standards for Gyrlander to meet so he has an excuse to hammer Gyrlander later.

I want him to feel the rope around his neck.

-vote Eggy

This is a massive missrep my defense was very rational I was being suggested for a policy lynch because like one game out of the 10+ I played I was afk which so happened to be the only other game we olayed together I spent many posts(waaaay more than gyrl bothered to make) proving that I was town and you were an idiot because I did not want to be mislynched. You are right about ine thing I like to put myself in other peoples shoes. If I was in gyrls spot right now I would actually defend my self and put the effort in to show up and prove that I am town and not just dissapear and accept my fate. The leas ttown thing gyrl has done is that he does not out effort to defend himself when he is at L1 and calls people out for not putting effort in at the same time as calling other people hypocrites.

[Eggy]

Omg, you're actually going through every post and twisting it to look wrong on one level or another, without even bothering to connect your commentary to a scumtell sometimes.

Like, you're taking a page 1 post and criticizing it for being "fluff for the most part not AI at all"? WTF? Come on people the amount of bullshit he's sewing to make his vote on Gyrlander look like anything other than bumlicking BC is almost admirable.

did not criticize it said it was NAI

[Unknown1234]

He is roleplaying a paranoid town scumreading people for ridiculous reasons and setting up faux masterplans for entertainment.

Do you think a scum would wifom a trollish town roleplaying a paranoid town scumreading people for ridiculous reasons and setting up faux masterplans for entertainment?

I do not, unless he is literally betting on another player analyzing his play just far enough to notice the roleplay but not the potential WIFOM, LOL.

Why is this different from normal Orpz play? Please compare between town and scum.

Your theories are biased, so I cannot answer this question as I do not agree with the conclusion.

I don't understand this answer, is this to paragraph 3?

[Unknown1234]

From several hours ago* actually, I only trolled for like a few hours at the start of the game.

Where have you provided substantial help to the town? Why the fuck do you scum-read Gyrlander? Policy lynch is not an acceptable answer.

[Unknown1234]

Awwh come on don't pick on the one weak thing I said about him and ignore the big-ass wallpost

I'm not, I have lots to answer and admittedly short answers are quick.

Why do you say weak points then?

[Eggy]

I found this strange too, but I guess not the way you do.

Look at it this way. Gyrlander is always scum. (Overwatch, Artificial Intelligence, I can't remember the other game names) but he is almost never town. I can understand why he would say this, because he gets lynched a lot and he is scum a lot. I don't see why scum!Gyrlander posts this, and I genuinely believe he is happy that he actually isn't scum for a change.

Also, someone fucking Unvote. I'd Gyrlander is busdriver I want to see him claim it so we can stop this shit train. NO Hammering.

unvote would be good but I really doubt anyone is going tk hammer at this point that would be extremely scummy. So is that the one thing that made you think he is town? I feel like that was vbrought on by like stereo orpz and purebe saying they were town so he just wanted to join in. Since he is lynched so often I would not be suprised if tried to change his scum play up abit and try out new things.

[Unknown1234]

Get fucked Grylander

At some point i am beginning to believe you are using your image as "crazy gambit Gurl" to try to cause un reasonable lynches. This is actually pathetic.

[purebe]

Am I reading too much into this or was powerofdeaths random first vote let's L-1 a guy who is being argued over scummy as hell? He didn't give a reason and still hasn't. I mean we can assume we know the reason but I don't want to make assumptions if I don't have to, and I don't think we should have to in this case.

This thread is moving faster than I can read it now (a good thing) but I don't want this to be overlooked.

[purebe]

random first post*

[Unknown1234]

unvote would be good but I really doubt anyone is going tk hammer at this point that would be extremely scummy. So is that the one thing that made you think he is town? I feel like that was vbrought on by like stereo orpz and purebe saying they were town so he just wanted to join in. Since he is lynched so often I would not be suprised if tried to change his scum play up abit and try out new things.

No, I was trying to answer comments directed at me before I went to look at Gyrlanders posts.

If he just wanted to jump in, why did you find it scummy by him 'jumping in' ??

[Unknown1234]

Am I reading too much into this or was powerofdeaths random first vote let's L-1 a guy who is being argued over scummy as hell? He didn't give a reason and still hasn't. I mean we can assume we know the reason but I don't want to make assumptions if I don't have to, and I don't think we should have to in this case.

This thread is moving faster than I can read it now (a good thing) but I don't want this to be overlooked.

It's not being ignored. It reminds me of POD in Mw2 and I am not over looking it.

[Eggy]

Fairly certain that he was saying someone who put no effort in used a lousy excuse to join a train. I don't think he has the right to discredit others for stuff he does.

Look at his more recent posts. What do you think of them? I'm pretty sure Scum!Gyrlander doesn't consider any logic and usually afks when he is about to be lynched. I'm like, 90% he's not scum right now.

I will look at his posts as well in the meantime.

you say he usually afks before he is lynched as scum? Is that not exactly what hes been doing?? He seems to pop up to make some low effort posts without any real contributions and then dissapear right after. I dont really know what his town play is like tho to be fair hence me saying I might be abit bias.

-vote orpz

still think this is a better train in terms f actually hiiting scum

[Unknown1234]

Ah, I see. The WIFOM game you're playing is Chess. Unfortunately I am playing 23 Dimensional Blindfolded Backgammon.

I'm heading out in a bit, so I won't address your posts until I'm free again. Actually, I don't think it's a relevant point of conversation anymore. You're free to continue to speculate on my early Day 1 shitposting but seeing as how I intend to take the game seriously from here, I don't feel it to be related enough to the game.

Also I have no idea what you meant by my aggression to Purebe. I never once thought he was intentionally cheating; 99% of the time people edit posts are because they didn't know it was against the rules.

"Fascinating..." is an allusion to Aizen, who might be the only good thing left about Bleach after that god awful ending.

Are you bailing at EOD when you are under a high amount of suspicion and won't address anything? Bullshit.

[Eggy]

He asked you to pick out what seems scummy in his posts. He didn't ask for an ISO in which you make weak arg.s on everything. You stretched really hard to make that ISO work. I am not the one stretching for pointing that out >.>

you said I was criticizing that post when I literally said it was NAI I also have said that the main thing I have against gyrl is banana 100% refusing to vote someone else and the fact that gyrl does not bother to stick around and defend himself. An ISO will not shed damning evidence against him since hes made like less than 10 posts

[Eggy]

No, I was trying to answer comments directed at me before I went to look at Gyrlanders posts.

If he just wanted to jump in, why did you find it scummy by him 'jumping in' ??

didnt say it was scummy said it was strange and would not suprise me if it was a scum play definately did not make me think he was town. You said there was one post in particular that made you think gylr was town what was it?

[Eggy]

Are you bailing at EOD when you are under a high amount of suspicion and won't address anything? Bullshit.

I think orpz should be the lynch for today

[Eggy]

if purebe votes orpz and YZ stops being an idiot and gyrl shows up we can pull the orpz lynch off before EOD

[Unknown1234]

Eggy, much like Orpz, bullshits a lot here. For context, Eggy said "I dont like how gyrl responded to pressure.", I asked him to elaborate, and then he posted the above post.

At this point, Gyrl had only said the following posts in response to the pressure on him, on page 3:





Eggy claims Gyrlander "only complains about how votes are unfair", yet Gyrlander never even brought up fairness. He claims Gyrlander engages in "just whining and calling everyone a sheep", but there is nothing to indicate his tone is whiny. He tells Orpz to stop being dumb/sheepish but that's quite different.

So, just bullshitting like Orpz? No.

It's not just flamboyant extravaganza for the purposes of amusing roleplay - that's not in Eggy's personality anyway. This is different.

Let me give you some context: In the last game I played with Eggy, I jokingly suggested to PL Eggy. After that, Eggy wrote nine posts completely centered on me and how obvs scum I was. He placed a vote on me and was openly hostile to me. We were 10 pages in and, after reading through the entire thread, Eggy only talked about me, me, me.

Eggy was town that game.

Eggy's response was not rational. Eggy did not propose other targets. Eggy did not meet the standards he creates in this post. In fact, he completely shit all over the standards. He expects Gyrlander to have awesome alternate lynches on page 3 and a rational response, even though he knows this is in no way how a town acts. Especially a town like Gyrlander.

This criticism of Gyrlander is completely fabricated for personal convenience. It is not a reflection of how he actually tries to read people when he's town. In fact, he tries to read people by projecting himself onto others: "I'd do that if I was town." "Man, I wouldn't do that if I was town". Yet he's doing nothing like that here. This is bullshit with malicious intent and calculated lying - he's fabricated ridiculous standards for Gyrlander to meet so he has an excuse to hammer Gyrlander later.

I want him to feel the rope around his neck.

-vote Eggy

The first two paragraphs are taken by how you perceive it. When people whine and only address posts and votes against them, that is when you are complaining about the votes. It's as if those posts are the only ones that matter.

To be honest, you are criticizing someone for being a hypocrite. If I'm being honest, people are almost always hypocrites so I don't understand why this makes him different. The observation you make is good, but when under the heat you react differently than opposed to just finding scummy points against someone.

Those points brought up are Nullified from Eggy.

The last point is something to consider. Are you only using meta for this argument though?

[yzb25]

This is a massive missrep my defense was very rational I was being suggested for a policy lynch because like one game out of the 10+ I played I was afk which so happened to be the only other game we olayed together I spent many posts(waaaay more than gyrl bothered to make) proving that I was town and you were an idiot because I did not want to be mislynched. You are right about ine thing I like to put myself in other peoples shoes. If I was in gyrls spot right now I would actually defend my self and put the effort in to show up and prove that I am town and not just dissapear and accept my fate. The leas ttown thing gyrl has done is that he does not out effort to defend himself when he is at L1 and calls people out for not putting effort in at the same time as calling other people hypocrites.

Exactly. Your response that game was reasonable. So is Gyr's this game.

The only thing a town knows for sure is that he's town. So when people make arguments against him, he's going to naturally want to spend a lot of time responding to / debunking them. Gyr's response is reasonable, and your response was reasonable. Your response in that game was a more extreme version of Gyr's response, which is why it's particularly weird to me that you don't empathize with Gyr's position and expect him to "propose alternate targets" as town.

The bottom line is you don't seem to trully scumread Gyr. After putting more thought into it, I can see the possibility you are town but are voting Gyr purely on the basis that you will hopefully get good contributions from a hopefully-town BC. But I still feel like it's more likely you're scum than town.

In regards to his inactivity, he's not been terrible in that regard. Bear in mind the game's had a slow start anyway, and if you look at the times of his posts he is checking in with reasonable frequency and responding to what people say about him.

[Eggy]

I hate saying this but YZ is such a dumbass its increadible always comming out with farfetched reasoning or plays that cost us the game.

[Eggy]

The first two paragraphs are taken by how you perceive it. When people whine and only address posts and votes against them, that is when you are complaining about the votes. It's as if those posts are the only ones that matter.

To be honest, you are criticizing someone for being a hypocrite. If I'm being honest, people are almost always hypocrites so I don't understand why this makes him different. The observation you make is good, but when under the heat you react differently than opposed to just finding scummy points against someone.

Those points brought up are Nullified from Eggy.

The last point is something to consider. Are you only using meta for this argument though?

except I did put myself in gylr shoes even in the game he was reffering to. I showed up and defended myself as hard as I could and didnt just allow myself to be lynched so if anything is fabricated it is that statement. That is my preffered method of establishing reads. putting myself in other peoples shoes

[Unknown1234]

except I did put myself in gylr shoes even in the game he was reffering to. I showed up and defended myself as hard as I could and didnt just allow myself to be lynched so if anything is fabricated it is that statement. That is my preffered method of establishing reads. putting myself in other peoples shoes

I'm pretty sure what he is saying is that you aren't doing that this game.

[Unknown1234]

didnt say it was scummy said it was strange and would not suprise me if it was a scum play definately did not make me think he was town. You said there was one post in particular that made you think gylr was town what was it?

What is the difference between scummy and strange? I asked you what you thought was scummy but you are telling me now you don't find it scummy?

[Unknown1234]

Also, Gyrlanders post about him crying at the email was super sincere to me. There is more I just haven't quoted it yet.

[Eggy]

Exactly. Your response that game was reasonable. So is Gyr's this game.

The only thing a town knows for sure is that he's town. So when people make arguments against him, he's going to naturally want to spend a lot of time responding to / debunking them. Gyr's response is reasonable, and your response was reasonable. Your response in that game was a more extreme version of Gyr's response, which is why it's particularly weird to me that you don't empathize with Gyr's position and expect him to "propose alternate targets" as town.

The bottom line is you don't seem to trully scumread Gyr. After putting more thought into it, I can see the possibility you are town but are voting Gyr purely on the basis that you will hopefully get good contributions from a hopefully-town BC. But I still feel like it's more likely you're scum than town.

In regards to his inactivity, he's not been terrible in that regard. Bear in mind the game's had a slow start anyway, and if you look at the times of his posts he is checking in with reasonable frequency and responding to what people say about him.

exactly naturally want to spend a lot of time defending himself. Except that is the opposite of what gyrl did he put in little to know effort to defend himself it is almost as if he gave up. I dont scum read gyrl very hard. I have repeatedly said the main reason I am not opposed to his lynch is because of banana. I have repeatedly said that orpz is more scummy. The fact this game had a slow start should allow him to defend himself easier since their was not much material to work with.

[yzb25]

The first two paragraphs are taken by how you perceive it. When people whine and only address posts and votes against them, that is when you are complaining about the votes. It's as if those posts are the only ones that matter.

To be honest, you are criticizing someone for being a hypocrite. If I'm being honest, people are almost always hypocrites so I don't understand why this makes him different. The observation you make is good, but when under the heat you react differently than opposed to just finding scummy points against someone.

Those points brought up are Nullified from Eggy.

The last point is something to consider. Are you only using meta for this argument though?

He didn't just whine about it being unfair though. He:

1) Thought Orpz was being stupid, and told him to stop being stupid.
2) Gave actual thoughts into why BC might vote him.

If he just said "omg this is unfair the game's barely started and people are voting me just because I lurked in the past", that would be whining and complaining about things being unfair. It is my perception, but I think it's a pretty damn reasonable perception.

I'm trying to locate the intent of his hypocrisy. It seems to me like he's being opportunistic - making excuses to vote Gyrlander, rather than being hypocritical in the sense of simply forgetting he's just as bad lol.

All reads are partially built on reading a person's personality. And reading a person's personality is often complemented by your past experiences with them. Yes it's an integral part of my read but to say the whole thing is a meta-read is a bit off. He seems to be bullshitting with intent, which is shown through his insincere reasoning.

[BananaCucho]

I can't be the only person bothered that @powerofdeath says nothing and then just puts gyrlander at L-1. Can you at least give a reason?

This is the type of play expected from POD 👌

[yzb25]

I hate saying this but YZ is such a dumbass its increadible always comming out with farfetched reasoning or plays that cost us the game.

=3