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  1. ISO #1551

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubernox View Post
    It sounded a bit too complicated at first glance, but now that you mention it I'll probably sign up anyway.
    It is a bit. I'll post a better summary of the mechanics and rules tomorrow so hopefully it will be easier to understand everything.
    Spoiler : FM History :
    FM VI: Commoner | FM VIII: Citizen (Tweek Tweak) | FM IX: Detective (Alexei) | FM X: Citizen (Zack) | FM XI: Citizen (Nautilus) | FM XII: Consigliere (Bronn) | FM XIII: Grave Robber (Tarkin) | FM XIV: Citizen (Mohiam) | FM XV: Electro Maniac (Togepi) | FM XVII: Citizen / Rebel (Tony Tony Chopper)

  2. ISO #1552

  3. ISO #1553

  4. ISO #1554

  5. ISO #1555

  6. ISO #1556

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubernox View Post
    The next batch of young FM players were nicely showcased in this FM.

    Duzero, Clementine, Carolina, ajkei and Reauz; I expect to see some good plays from you in the future.
    Thanks! I'm still a little pissed that I didn't have a conscious team until I was already dead, but I'm definitely looking forward to playing more FM in the future, and eventually playing another five-sided setup!

  7. ISO #1557

  8. ISO #1558

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    I don't know how mafia managed to win, but I'm happy I won . I was so pissed that I couldn't talk after day one. The mafia killing their townie was dis-heartening to me but an epic fail none the less. The death notice I got was even a face palm from Fargos:

    You were killed by Mafia. Apparently they don't differentiate between friend and foe...
    I was sure it was Escaho who killed me at first because, I voted for a mayor which he didn't want.

    LOL, anyway gg to everyone.
    Last edited by TimeTrx; May 11th, 2012 at 05:29 PM.

  9. ISO #1559

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    -vote Ubernox for MVP

    After the Day 4 fiasco, he had the game in the bag. The only reason he didn't win is because he saw that he would, so he tried to get Rihfok a win instead (which, I'm not afraid to say "I told you so" to Rihfok for the Mafia shooting Goremancer and then lynching him, which is what I said would happen if he voted to lynch me).

    I appreciate the nice comments. Tried to utilize what we had to work with.

    Before I begin saying anything, I would like to put one thing out there: During the game, many things I say are what I am actually thinking, but some of the things are merely for show (for example, while I did believe Dust/Ubernox deserved to win the game at that point in Day 5, there were definitely other deserving people who deserved the win (i.e. - the mafia). However, I based that comment on Dust coming into the night chat and needing his vote).

    With that said, here are my thoughts on individual players and their factions:

    THE POLICE

    Zane (Sheriff): Didn't really get to do much in terms of gameplay, but used his banana skills to get elected Mayor. A great start for the Police, but not claiming anything or coming online to post the following day led to his demise. Sadly, he took his banana crown and split.

    Omeleet (Bodyguard): Had even less to do. The Bodyguard is a fairly thankless role and cannot really do much in this setup. He can trade a life for a life, but it still weakens the Police's overall position. Worked with what he could and we never really got to see what would have came from it because he was killed so early.

    Rihfok (Detective): Rihfok made some fairly good decisions and some fairly bad ones. I understand what he was trying to do by shooting the remaining Outlaws, but he really should have shot at least one mafia. The Militia was trying to help him, along with the Tycoons (both vying for his support), but he turned on one of his allies in the late game (when he could have taken out his enemy through votes: one of the mafia) even after being given valid reasons not to. The goal in Rihfok's position was to create a balance between opposing factions because everyone viewed the Police faction as the weakest. Eliminating the Outlaws meant the shift of power fell firmly to the Mafia/Tycoons, which meant the Police would be easy pickings, especially considering that their main enemy (Mafia) were the ones with the guns. Still, he played well up until the final few days.

    Tasogare_Akira (Citizen/Mason): Fairly reliable in the early-mid game, but once Day 4 hit he was suddenly AFK. His vote would have been the determining vote at one point for lynching Goremancer, leading to a more balanced game as opposed to the sudden shift in power that occurred. Note: being busy in real life is fine, but even finding a way to come online for ten minutes during mid-day would have avoided this. Did not understand the Electro Maniac mechanics, even after it was explained. Seemed to be more interested in chiming in and then resuming whatever else he was doing instead of playing FM (evidenced by the Day-trolling instead of working with his exposed alliance).

    THE MILITIA

    Phyr (Mason Leader): Phyr was, essentially, our ring leader. I should have followed his advice on several occasions (sending Akira to recruit, for one thing...) and he always had a plan. Look at his extensive use of codes in our night chat! I have no doubt he would have been a major player had it not been for the Blackmail, followed by the double-attack and subsequent death. Definitely someone to watch out for.

    Escaho (Journalist): I felt that my role was very, very weak. Perhaps the weakest in the game. Getting articles from opposing factions would just result in trolling, and while it might have allowed us to decipher a few roles early on, by Night 3 everyone basically had 80% of the role list anyway. With journalist articles, our enemies would have known how weak we truly were.

    straykiwi
    (Armoursmith): Didn't contribute as much, but always around when needed. Made suggestions during night chat, though became dissatisfied with the game after Day 4 and I don't blame him.

    Mopin (Citizen): Mopin is someone who I know is a smart player (especially when he's Mafia). However, I was very disappointed with his performance this game. He asked to be recruited, when it is quite obvious that the Militia want to recruit non-Militia aligned Citizens first, to sway them to our side. We knew we could rely on his vote, so we did not recruit him. However, on Day 4, he openly voted against the Militia to get CarolinaCrown lynched, who was one of our (and his) allies. This may have been due to the Survivor-status of the Citizen, but he still openly went against us.

    THE OUTLAWS

    CarolinaCrown (Drug Dealer): Played very well. Was unfortunately lynched due to a shortened day and several AFK players (even his own teammate). Kept his role secret until the bitter end. Openly sided with the Militias to force a hectic game (especially because siding with the Mafia would have made the Tycoons fight them at night. At least siding with the Militia they knew the Tycoons would be gunning for them). Very impressed. Made the majority of actions for his team and kept them alive (and really, it was the Outlaws game to win against the Tycoons until the Day 4 fiasco).

    Ash (Outlaw): Again, AFK. Why do people keep signing up for these FMs if they cannot participate in them?

    Sinclair/ReauxTzunami (Escort): Sinclair was AFK and missed not only a very pivotal lynch, but had a very powerful role in this game. Very disappointed. Reaux replaced him, understood what was going on and heavily participated in day chat and took over for the team once Carolina died. A very good job and well-played. It's unfortunate both you and Carolina weren't on the team from the start.

    ajkei (Citizen): Played well with what he had to work with: a Citizen that wins on his own. He helped the Militia and the Outlaws. However, clearly lost interest in the end game because he knew he would win, proving indeed that the Citizens should not win just by surviving.

    THE MAFIA

    clementine (Godfather): Played very well. However, was also a bit lucky due to the setup. I knew she was Godfather on Day 3 once she "left" her vote on Phyr, but had no way to kill her. Vote-training her wasn't an option because the Outlaws/Masons/some Citizens went AFK during the pivotal day and our majority vanished. From then on, no way I could kill her because I had no gun at my disposal. However, she played well enough, but it was clear that the Citizens only sided with the Mafia because they lost interest in the game.

    kiranearitachi (Consigliere): Really impressed me this game. Had no idea there was a Consig in the game at all and had us fooled by claiming a Tycoon at one point (I believe it was Day 3). Also convinced the Citizens to just hammer Ubernox towards the end. Well done, good sir.

    Duzero (Blackmailer): Probably didn't expect me to be more vocal than Phyr, but played a very good tactic trying to convince the Town to join them on Day 3. Well thought out (and kudos to clementine as well) for devising this plan once he was marked for death by the dousing. Great effort!

    TimeTrx (Citizen): Poor TimeTrx. Shot by his own team Night One. But because of it, he won the game! Yay!

    THE TYCOONS


    Ubernox (Tycoon): In my opinion, as stated, the best player in the game. Knew what he was doing, organized everything at night with the manipulative roles at his disposal, gave weaponry to key players (Dust, then Rihfok), which were used to kill his enemies (Militia/Outlaws). Technically would have won if he didn't try to spice up the game by letting Rihfok win with him. I knew you were doomed the moment you lynched me because the Citizens didn't care about winning with me (by drawing out the game by a few more days), so they definitely wouldn't want to draw out another few days with you .

    We had some great verbal sparring matches. Would love to see what happens if we end up on the same team (or as allies)!

    Goremancer (Bus Driver): AFK for the majority of the game. Did a smart play early on by claiming Citizen (nearly wasting a recruit), but then disappeared during the late game except for voting which led to Ubernox having to run the entire Tycoon department.

    Grim-Demon (Gunsmith): AFK during the day he was lynched (Lol), but kept his role a secret very well. Needs to limit the insults to other players (specifically swear words...), but just needs to apply himself more to the day chat and the strategizing.

    Dust (Citizen/Mason): Another great effort by Dust. A combined effort by the Militia/Mafia ended up with Dust losing the game, but that was clearly not my intention. The Tycoons tried to keep him alive and did it well, also providing him with weaponry. However, not claiming recruited may have spared his life on that final day...Well played, though.

    THE HOST


    Fragos: Excellent job hosting. The work one puts into hosting can get tedious and, with all the night chats, is not always easy. I appreciate the time and effort you put into this game, Fragos, and am glad that it was successful (look at the view count for this game compared to FMXII! Insane!). I can't wait for you to host another one and hope that it can be tweaked to make it a little more active and interesting. Congratulations.





    And finally:

    THE SET-UP:


    While the game appeared fairly well-balanced at the start, there are some qualms I had with it. This is where I'll toss out ideas on what I think could work in the future and what I think didn't work in this game.

    The Role List:

    -Quite simply, some factions were under-powered and some were over-powered. For starters, the Police were severely underpowered. They could investigate one player each night, follow one player each night, and defend one player each night (at the cost of that player's life). This mean that eliminating one of their enemies with the Bodyguard would bring them both down a member, but it wasn't worth it since it's 3 Police vs 6 Enemies. The investigations don't help at all if you don't have a killing role, because you need the voting majority to kill them off. In my opinion, the Police Shared-ability should be Jailing, which not only acts as a role-block, but also gives them 2 or 3 executions.

    -The Militia were severely underpowered. The WIFOM Doctor protection was better than the Journalist, by far. Posting an article would have made us appear weaker in our enemy's eyes (and they'd be right!). The Armorsmith only really worked well if we successfully recruited (which was foiled many times...). Our Mason Leader made sense, but the recruit action is a problem I'll get into in a second...

    -The Outlaws were well-balanced. The Escort could stop the killing for at least a night by finding the mafia, the Drug Dealer caused some serious doubt about night actions to occur, and the Dousing made for slow kills and obvious death threats.

    -The Mafia were slightly overpowered. Having the ability to Blackmail your biggest vocal enemy, determine what roles other players are and kill someone every night meant your allies would be drawn to you. For example, why would the Tycoons side with the Police over the Mafia when the Mafia have so much more at their disposal?

    -The Tycoons were clearly overpowered. The amount of manipulation at their disposal was high. Bus Driving and Witching? In fact, it was Witching by any player on their team. Re-direct shots, bus drive to save your own allies or opposing targets, give your allies guns to shoot even more of your enemies to death. I mean...man.

    The Citizens:

    -Let's be honest: The Citizens had the easiest role in the whole game. What incentive was there for them to continue playing? They merely had to survive until the end of the game to win. All they had to do was side with the killing roles (Mafia/Outlaws) and they would win. No one wants to kill them because it doesn't matter if they are alive at the end to any of the factions.

    -This "Survivor status" encouraged the Citizens to role claim immediately and then sit back and watch everyone else fight it out. To fix this: Citizens should only be allowed to win with their favored faction. Then, if they are converted, they should be required to win with the Militia. This would encourage them to stay under the radar if their current favored faction (for example, Mafia) was winning, in order to avoid being recruited.

    Other Neutral Roles:


    -Now that we've played a game with this set-up, it may be good in the future to introduce more neutral roles that are against all the factions. Your Time Manipulator would be useful for this setup.

    -In addition, I still recommend a Neutral Killer for balance instead of letting a faction kill. A killing faction gives them a greater likelihood of surviving at night, because only bus driving and re-directs through witching will have that faction die (and, since the faction with those manipulative roles were allied with the killing role faction, they had absolutely no fear of death each night). To do this, I would introduce a Serial Killer who has two Students [both Students have their own abilities, such as Investigator and/or Vigilante]. Their goal would be to kill ALL factions (or, at the very least, decimate/eliminate Four of the Five). They would get their own night chat and, possibly, a shared ability to Kill (the serial killer's ability) in lieu of their own night action. This gives a faction for everyone to actively root against.

    -With this in mind, you could then introduce more "fun" neutral roles, such as Jester/Executioner/Survivor. So a game of 25 players could be: 3 people in each of the five factions, 1 Citizen-favoring each faction, 1 SK, 2 Students, 1 Time Manipulator, 1 Jester/Executioner/Survivor.

    Going AFK (a.k.a. Not Having Enough Time for Forum Mafia):

    -This needs to be said again and again: If you do not have time for Forum Mafia, DO NOT PLAY FORUM MAFIA.

    -If you are going to go AFK, inform the host if you need to be replaced. If you have suddenly become busy in life, let the host know so he/she can find you a replacement. Sometimes during the game, every player and every vote is needed. As shown by Day 4 (which I know I keep referring to, but it was the pivotal moment in which this game shifted from being ridiculously fun and stressful to boring and basically over), going AFK can result in your team/allies losing entirely, which is what occurred. Please, if you do not have the time, inform the Host.

    End Notes (& Game-Length):
    -Overall, a well-made game with an interesting format, but it becomes boring and cumbersome if two factions allied together suddenly gain the majority (especially if this majority is gained due to 3 people on one side going AFK). I recommend keeping the Day at 48 hours until there are only 12 or less people in the game. That could have caused the Day 4 disaster to have been avoided, since both Akira and Sinclair came online within hours after the end of that day). But overall, fun, enjoyable, chaotic, and some insane days were had in this game. I enjoyed myself immensely.
    Last edited by Escaho; May 11th, 2012 at 10:52 PM.
    M-FMIII: Lookout (WIN!) | M-FMIV: SK (WIN!) | M-FMV: Bus Driver (LOSS) (Unintentional MVP Award!) | FM-X: Citizen/Mason (WIN!) | S-FMIII: Vigilante (WIN!) | Cursed Bullet S-FM: Citizen (WIN!) | M-FMVI: SK (WIN!) | Torment S-FM: Citizen (LOSS) | S-FM (GI): Consig (WIN!)
    https://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5633/escahomvp.jpg

  10. ISO #1560

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Grim-Demon (Gunsmith): AFK during the day he was lynched (Lol)

    I said when you voted me my Internet had been cut off. How is it a Lol that my internet wasn't working so I could not defend my self.
    About the insult's I don't Insult many people iv probley insulted up to 5 maybe about 7 people on these forums. There just people that are dick head's though.
    I'm mad at Ubernox
    1. Voting to lynch me.
    2. Promising to get me the game win if I die.
    He could have sticked by that promise by just joint winning with the Mafia.
    He did not keep that promise very well. If he did not make a promise I would be fine, Seeing as he did make a promise and he did not stand by it I'm mad
    Last edited by GriM-DeMoN; May 11th, 2012 at 09:55 PM.
    I am about of the shit SC2Mafia forums. It is such a dark place I just want out of it just for fun I'm going to troll to get myself Banned.
    BAN ME CUNTS FUCK YOUR STUPID FORUM

  11. ISO #1561

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Quote Originally Posted by GriM-DeMoN View Post
    I said when you voted me my Internet had been cut off. How is it a Lol that my internet wasn't working so I could not defend my self.
    About the insult's I don't Insult many people iv probley insulted up to 5 maybe about 7 people on these forums. There just people that are dick head's though.
    I'm mad at Ubernox
    1. Voting to lynch me.
    2. Promising to get me the game win if I die.
    He could have sticked by that promise by just joint winning with the Mafia.
    He did not keep that promise very well. If he did not make a promise I would be fine, Seeing as he did make a promise and he did not stand by it I'm mad
    You did, however, post in straykiwi's game from your phone the day you died. Therefore, you theoretically could have scoured this thread and placed a vote or said something to Ubernox before getting lynched.
    M-FMIII: Lookout (WIN!) | M-FMIV: SK (WIN!) | M-FMV: Bus Driver (LOSS) (Unintentional MVP Award!) | FM-X: Citizen/Mason (WIN!) | S-FMIII: Vigilante (WIN!) | Cursed Bullet S-FM: Citizen (WIN!) | M-FMVI: SK (WIN!) | Torment S-FM: Citizen (LOSS) | S-FM (GI): Consig (WIN!)
    https://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5633/escahomvp.jpg

  12. ISO #1562

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    I didn't really know what was going on that much though.
    Since that thread was so big.
    I am about of the shit SC2Mafia forums. It is such a dark place I just want out of it just for fun I'm going to troll to get myself Banned.
    BAN ME CUNTS FUCK YOUR STUPID FORUM

  13. ISO #1563

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    If you want the Neutral Killer, Escaho, then Hitman will be the right man for the job. Yoo know what he does right?

    In Five-Sided Town the Hitman's goal will be to complete at least 3 contracts and survive until one or two remaining factions wins the game.

    Spoiler : Forum Mafia History :
    FMVI: Seer FMVII: Lookout FMIX: Propagandist FMX: Arsonist FMXI:Janitor FMXIII: Corrupt Journalist
    FMXIV: Lookout FM XVI: Vigilante FM XVII: Host FM XVIII: Witch FM XIX: Bounty Hunter FMXX: Electro Maniac



  14. ISO #1564

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Ah, it's a shame to have joined the game so late, especially when the one teammate I hoped to get some information from was lynched before the night I joined in. From what I can gather though, I would have to -vote escaho as well. Seeing as how the only goal I knew was the Outlaw/Militia alliance, my last will from the night I was killed pretty much summed up my plans, except that I wouldn't worry about taking the Militia out since I knew it would be easier to get an allied victory. All the actions and ideas he continued to pitch and throw out, getting himself out of trouble and lasting longer then expected, even trying to get everything to go his way in the end was nothing less of great playing.

    I hope to catch a lot of you again in another FM, hopefully from the beginning.

  15. ISO #1565

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragos View Post
    If you want the Neutral Killer, Escaho, then Hitman will be the right man for the job. Yoo know what he does right?

    In Five-Sided Town the Hitman's goal will be to complete at least 3 contracts and survive until one or two remaining factions wins the game.
    The main thing that went wrong was the citizens ability to win as a survivor. Remove that and change some other minor things regarding balance and this game should be fine.
    M-FM III: Lookout | M-FM IV: Lookout/Detective | M-FM V: Witch | M-FM VI: Acolyte
    S-FM I: Mayor | S-FM III: Bodyguard | S-FM V: Consigliere [MVP] | S-FM VI: Citizen

  16. ISO #1566

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    The problem with not giving citizens surviving goal is that if their favored faction lose, they lose the will to continue the game further.

    But the citizen's primary goal is not just survival: they must attain the best possible ending for the game (such as helping their favored faction to win, or if that faction lose, see at least their enemies eliminated).

    There are 11 possible endings for this game: 5 for one faction victory, 5 for two faction victory, and one hidden ending. I won't tell you what that ending is - you must discover it yourself.

    Now let's judge the remaining surviving citizens.

    Tasogare Akira and Mopin received the "Semi-Worst" ending, where Mafia is still alive but other enemies (Tycoons for Mopin and Outlaws for Akira) were eliminated.

    Ajkei received the "Neutral" ending - the Outlaws lost, but so did their enemies - Tycoons and Police. So he received more points than Akira and Mopin.

    Spoiler : Forum Mafia History :
    FMVI: Seer FMVII: Lookout FMIX: Propagandist FMX: Arsonist FMXI:Janitor FMXIII: Corrupt Journalist
    FMXIV: Lookout FM XVI: Vigilante FM XVII: Host FM XVIII: Witch FM XIX: Bounty Hunter FMXX: Electro Maniac



  17. ISO #1567

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Masons should not revert to Citizens in my opinion (I hate the possibility of backstabbing - and I couldn't really blame them for it - it's a valid attempt at winning the game).
    When Citizen loose their survivor status, I'd like to see another shared ability for the Militia. No Citizen will try to reveal early because they will be forced to win with the Militia for the rest of the game. Revealing late when the favored side lost/is on the edge of loosing is much desirable for every Citizen. In another setup with a different number and ratio of Citizens, it can easily be unbalanced. I suggest to give the Mason Leader the recruit ability and leave him in the roles list while changing the shared ability. Roleblocking, bus driving seem to be strong enough to compete with the other shared abilities but don't fit the theme very well. Ofc Masons will not be able to recruit, possibly even denying them the shared ability.

    I think the Journalist is the weakest of all roles in the game because he forcefully reveals that he is in the game but doesn't have a strong ability to counter this downside. So I suggest replacing the Journalist with Message Carrier. I propose four different flavors for him:
    1. Visits a player at night and gives him a secret message of the Message Carriers choosing.
    2. Chooses a player during day. When nights begins, the player will be notified that a message carrier will come to pick up a message of the player's choosing.
    3. Can choose to use either 1 or 2.
    4. Chooses a player during day and gives him a message of the Message Carriers choosing when the night starts. When night ends, the message Carrier will pick up the answer.
    If each of those are still deemed to strong (which it is absolutely not compared to a Jailor in my opinion), the Message Carrier's target could be revealed the next day. If the target gets lynched, the message will either loose its secret character or will be lost.

    Bodyguard is okay, if the Police got a realistic chance to protect him (communicating with the Militia to get heals/armor on him). Kill trading alone is not really desirable (unless you are Militia and have more members than any other team).


    How about this change to the victory condition for the Citizens:
    See you favored side win the game OR survive and see all sides loose the game.

    So the Outlaw Citizen can only win with the Mafia as long as the Outlaws are still alive. There are no "points" involved to make one victory better than another and it still is possible for the Citizens to win right until the end (Lynch the MAFIA! We are the people (that rule the town)! ). This is especially interesting with a neutral killer in the game that needs to see all sides loose. The more I think about it, the more I like it.
    Last edited by Phyr; May 12th, 2012 at 04:38 AM.

  18. ISO #1568

  19. ISO #1569

  20. ISO #1570

    Re: Five-Sided Town Epiliogue: Mafia is Immortal

    Yeah. There's only three possibilities for this secret ending:

    1. Last factions kill each other off in the last night, leaving only the citizens to pick up the pieces.

    2. Faction stalemate, like if only me and Escaho had survived, with not enough people on either side to win a lynch.

    3. Somehow, the last two people off each other at the same time, leaving no one alive and a Nobody Wins scenario.

 

 

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