S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)
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  1. #1

    S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)



    (๑´ڡ`๑) No this isn't a dream. (๑´ڡ`๑)


    --------------------------


    Roles

    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen

    Nurse
    Justice
    Oracle

    Actress
    Heartbreaker
    Paparazzi


    ---------


    Mechanics

    -Lynch is Majority + Plurality
    -Mafia shares a night chat only
    -If more than one Mafia is alive, the kill cannot be blocked by Nurse
    -All Mafia members can kill and use their night abilities simultaneously.
    -No Last Wills
    -No Death Notes
    -Night start No Night Kill, all power roles may use their abilities.
    -48HR Days
    -24HR Nights


    ---------

    Rolecards
    Citizen: You are a Citizen, you have no action.
    Nurse: You are a Nurse, at night you may choose to protect a target. They will be healed and roleblocked. You are not informed whether or not you protected your target. If there is only one Mafia remaining and you use your ability on them, they will be unable to kill.
    Justice: You are a Justice, at night you may choose to compare two targets to learn whether they have the same or different alignment. An Actress will always be different than town.
    Oracle: You are an Oracle, at night you may choose to target another player. If you are killed by any means, their role will be revealed publicly. You cannot be roleblocked.
    &
    Actress: You are an Actress, at night you may choose to target another player. You will learn their role and appear as that role if you're killed by any means. You may choose to act on an Mafia teammate.
    Heartbreaker: You are a Heartbreaker, on the first night you may choose to target another player. If you are lynched, they will die. If they die you are unaffected. You may choose to not use your ability. You may only do this the first night.
    Paparazzi: You are the Paparazzi, if you are ever lynched you may tell the host via PM to have one player's role revealed to your Mafia teammates. The town will not know this information.

    ---------


    Feedback

    Killed: You died.
    Roleblocked: No Feedback
    Justice: You investigated [blank] & [blank] they have the same/different alignment.
    Oracle Reveal: Will be located in beginning of day or night posts.
    Heartbreaker: [Target] has fallen in love with you!
    Loved: You have fallen in love with [Heartbreaker player.]
    Actress: Your target is a [Role] you will now appear as [Role.]
    Paparazzi Reveal: Located in Mafia night chat.



    ---------

    OOO

    Nurse -> All other power roles -> Kills


    Standard Forum Mafia Rules Apply

    Mafia wins if they control the Majority.
    Town wins if they lynch all Mafia members.




    Last edited by Frinckles; March 19th, 2020 at 04:19 PM.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  2. #2

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10p)

    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ General how 2 Play (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ

    Gameplay depends largely on who is killed the first night but two underlying concepts are for Justice to reveal day one with their check and Nurse/Oracle to not claim unless they absolutely need to. If Justice is dead, Oracle is free to claim instead. Mafia you have the playbook, have fun.
    Last edited by Frinckles; March 5th, 2020 at 09:29 AM.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  3. #3

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10p)

    Actually. This is open to review. This setup is based off one I created on EpicMafia that has gained a good bit of attention which was "Jem is Outrageous." After playing the setup 26 times in ranked it's win loss is about 52/48 favoring town slightly. There are multiple avenues for mafia to win while allowing a competent town to figure it out.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  4. #4

  5. #5

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10p)

    Unusual, yet simple roles.
    And an Actress.

    Review in progress.

    Lynch mode (majority, plurality, majority + plurality, condorcet, etc.) is required.

    Mafia can carry the factional kill and use their personal action at the same time, right? It'd be nice to specify it in the setup, even though "if more than one Mafia is alive, they all commit the night kill" implies it.

    Although you say that a similar setup has a winrate favoring town, I see a high scum - town ratio here, given that the Mafia has a factional kill and a lot of means to confuse or kill the town. Without counting Heartbreaker kill or Nurse heal in, two mislynches would result in a Mafia victory. I suggest adding one citizen, unless you have arguments against this.

    The Paparazzi's rolecard is unclear. Does he reveal the roles of all players, or only of a specific target? Please clarify.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I want to drink your blood, vomit it out, and then spell out the words "FAKE BITCH" with it

  6. #6

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    Heads up : don't forget to set the prefix to Ready for Review when the setup is ready for review! I could have missed your post if it had gotten buried.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I want to drink your blood, vomit it out, and then spell out the words "FAKE BITCH" with it

  7. #7

  8. #8

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Unusual, yet simple roles.
    And an Actress.

    Review in progress.

    Lynch mode (majority, plurality, majority + plurality, condorcet, etc.) is required.

    Mafia can carry the factional kill and use their personal action at the same time, right? It'd be nice to specify it in the setup, even though "if more than one Mafia is alive, they all commit the night kill" implies it.

    Although you say that a similar setup has a winrate favoring town, I see a high scum - town ratio here, given that the Mafia has a factional kill and a lot of means to confuse or kill the town. Without counting Heartbreaker kill or Nurse heal in, two mislynches would result in a Mafia victory. I suggest adding one citizen, unless you have arguments against this.

    The Paparazzi's rolecard is unclear. Does he reveal the roles of all players, or only of a specific target? Please clarify.
    Adding a citizen wouldn't give town an additional lynch, because the game begins with a night phase.

    p;edit you'd probably hate me for suggesting this but maybe the n0 actions should be randomized, or COMs should be used. Getting killed based on your meta kind of sucks lol.
    Last edited by yzb25; March 5th, 2020 at 02:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  9. #9

  10. #10

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10p)

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Adding a citizen wouldn't give town an additional lynch, because the game begins with a night phase.

    p;edit you'd probably hate me for suggesting this but maybe the n0 actions should be randomized, or COMs should be used. Getting killed based on your meta kind of sucks lol.
    But yes. The game begins with a town member killed. It is 6v3 beginning day one and 4v3 after a mislynch + nightkill.

    As far as N0 actions, I don't see a reason to change them. If players want to run this setup with alt accounts that's fine. Night start doesn't get enough love in our community, it's brutal but it's a way to play. And honestly, I'm giving three town power roles their abilities during this too - this could be a saved n0 kill for all we know.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  11. #11

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    These roles can create some cute little interactions. I like them <3
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  12. #12

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall

    Updated with changes.

    As for balance, I've added a basic primer following the OP to help town avoid getting rekt. Not sure about adding another Citizen.
    I missed something in the original review. Oops. Oh and it seems you all noticed it before me

    Mafia being able to kill on night 1 makes it even worse than I thought, and causes the game to rely much more on Justice and Nurse. Basically, it removes a big part of the pressure to read people based on behavior and gives a lot of weight to power roles. That is rarely fun, unless the players are looking for a role madness game (and even then, there should still be a stronger incentive for town to scum hunt). Plus, in the event Justice and Oracle aren't efficient in their actions, the setup becomes simply super scum-favored. Even with Justice being accurate, the Town still has to figure who has which alignment between the two checks. Mislynches cost a lot in this game, yet the roles don't really prevent them at all.

    I'm not sure adding a basic strategy guide is what the game needs. It doesn't affect balance.

    As for the "night 0" kill start, it's a way to play, I guess. I do agree that it sucks to get killed without having the chance to post, but that's an issue inherent to the game style.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I want to drink your blood, vomit it out, and then spell out the words "FAKE BITCH" with it

  13. #13

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Mafia being able to kill on night 1 makes it even worse than I thought, and causes the game to rely much more on Justice and Nurse. Basically, it removes a big part of the pressure to read people based on behavior and gives a lot of weight to power roles. That is rarely fun, unless the players are looking for a role madness game (and even then, there should still be a stronger incentive for town to scum hunt). Plus, in the event Justice and Oracle aren't efficient in their actions, the setup becomes simply super scum-favored. Even with Justice being accurate, the Town still has to figure who has which alignment between the two checks. Mislynches cost a lot in this game, yet the roles don't really prevent them at all.
    I like mechanic focused setups and I disagree that scumhunting takes a backseat to it. We just played a game where we did in fact have two FBI Agent claims and we spent more time interacting within ourselves than with the claimants. That's ignoring the fact that one of them was AFK and the other was overwhelmingly townread.

    Six of the ten roles are power roles, but that doesn't make this role madness. Players know what to expect, it's written clearly. Nurse needs to be hidden, and Justice/Oracle needs to lead the town.

    Simply put, the town will lose after two mislynches. The Mafia have multiple avenues to win the game but the town has more than enough tools to combat whatever the Mafia runs.

    I'm not sure what the concern is specifically. Adding an additional citizen will do little, I think except make the game more difficult for a Mafia who can't find Nurse.
    Last edited by Frinckles; March 6th, 2020 at 08:33 AM.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  14. #14

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    Given the level of POE and game-solving that can be done with all these roles, it doesn't surprise me that the winrate is 50/50. Justice has the potential to build a towncore very quickly. There will still be a need for reads, they'll just be within a narrower set of scenarios, like last game.

    Whether scum can win depends on whether they can do something funky to throw off the town's rhythm and extract an additional mislynch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  15. #15

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Given the level of POE and game-solving that can be done with all these roles, it doesn't surprise me that the winrate is 50/50. Justice has the potential to build a towncore very quickly. There will still be a need for reads, they'll just be within a narrower set of scenarios, like last game.

    Whether scum can win depends on whether they can do something funky to throw off the town's rhythm and extract an additional mislynch.
    Yes, even an Oracle killed night one can give the town a psuedo-confirmed town to work with. Interactions in relation to those flips and any counterclaim the Mafia attempts will form a majority of scumhunting.

    There is also the question of whether Heartbreaker chooses to love night one. If they do, you will automatically have a counterclaim between those two players.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  16. #16

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    The primary difference in the application of power roles in this setup compared to Silent Night is that it is highly recommended for Justice to claim day one. Last wills are disabled for this reason. Aamirus, for example, could not simply hide and collect checks to solve the game. It would be wasted if killed. The approach of Follow-The-Cop (Justice) is also taken into consideration. Plenty of wifom there as the Nurse additionally roleblocks.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  17. #17

  18. #18

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    I like mechanic focused setups and I disagree that scumhunting takes a backseat to it. We just played a game where we did in fact have two FBI Agent claims and we spent more time interacting within ourselves than with the claimants. That's ignoring the fact that one of them was AFK and the other was overwhelmingly townread.

    Six of the ten roles are power roles, but that doesn't make this role madness. Players know what to expect, it's written clearly. Nurse needs to be hidden, and Justice/Oracle needs to lead the town.

    Simply put, the town will lose after two mislynches. The Mafia have multiple avenues to win the game but the town has more than enough tools to combat whatever the Mafia runs.

    I'm not sure what the concern is specifically. Adding an additional citizen will do little, I think except make the game more difficult for a Mafia who can't find Nurse.
    Conflicting claims are normal in non-vanilla games. However, if people begin to "count roles" like they do in the mod at a point that is not end-game, which did happen in past games, scumhunting based on behavior does take a back seat. Giving only one mislynch possibility to the Town is limiting the amount of scum hunting that isn't based purely on mechanics/role abilities.

    If the goal of the setup is to be highly based on mechanics, I guess people can see by themselves when they play.

    The "tools the Town has to combat whatever the Mafia runs" are not mainly behavioral analysis in this setup (as you imply yourself, it's the TPRs that give tools here), and that was my point. If that's the intent behind the setup, so be it.


    ~~ The part above isn't an issue : it was simply a concern that the nature of the setup wasn't reflecting the original intent. ~~


    Adding an additional citizen gives two mislynches to the Town instead of just one (at least from pure lynches + factional kills point of view), and that is a BIG thing, not a little one at all. Only one mislynch is, from my experience and from general statistics of games, very hard to pull for town. Plus, the Heartbreaker's kill actually makes it go back to one allowed mislynch if it's well used. I don't know the meta of the site you took this from, but a 50/50 winrate seems unlikely in ours. This is, as I see it, a balance issue, and the setup is likely to result in a Mafia victory. Feel free to disagree and expose arguments if you do, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I want to drink your blood, vomit it out, and then spell out the words "FAKE BITCH" with it

  19. #19

    Re: S-FM Third Line Butterfly (10P)

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Given the level of POE and game-solving that can be done with all these roles, it doesn't surprise me that the winrate is 50/50. Justice has the potential to build a towncore very quickly. There will still be a need for reads, they'll just be within a narrower set of scenarios, like last game.

    Whether scum can win depends on whether they can do something funky to throw off the town's rhythm and extract an additional mislynch.
    Having one confirmed town is very strong in the long run, but doesn't solve games instantly or prevent mislynches (far from completely, at least). This game isn't designed to last very long. Proof is to be seen in Your Everyday Average Game, in which the "Host" almighty role with power to kill lost, or in Turnabout Mafia, in which the Judge, a confirmed town player without a standard vote, was completely unable to change the tides of the game, despite being experienced and charismatic.

    I do agree that this is what the scums have to do. It just seems too easy for them in the current state of the setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I want to drink your blood, vomit it out, and then spell out the words "FAKE BITCH" with it

  20. #20

 

 

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