S-FM 290: Standoff (8P) - Page 30
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  1. #581

  2. #582

  3. #583

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I considered claiming bartender, but not for long. Why in the world would I give a fake gun as town lol, that's anti-town as hell...
    I'm trying to figure out... how would a green Bartender play the game? The only thing I could come up with is doing nothing while claiming his actual role.
    The Bartender can give fake feedback if his choosing, here is the list of all potential feedbacks:

    Potential Feedback
    Spoiler : Feedback :

    Spoiler : Items :
    You received an item last night:
    [ARMOR/GUN]
    You used your bulletproof vest last night; you were not attacked.
    You used your bulletproof vest, and you were attacked last night!
    You attacked X using your one-use gun.

    Spoiler : Chemist :

    You were poisoned last night. You will die at the end of the day.
    You poisoned [INTENDED TARGET] last night. They will die at the end of the day.

    Spoiler : Electromaniac :

    You were charged last night.
    You charged
    [INTENDED TARGET1] and [INTENDED TARGET2] last night. They did not visit one another.
    You charged [INTENDED TARGET1] and [INTENDED TARGET2] last night, and they visited one another!

    Spoiler : Physician :

    You were attacked and left for dead, but a mysterious stranger nursed you back to health.

    Spoiler : Stagecoach Driver :

    You bussed X and Y last night.
    You were bussed!


    Spoiler : Tracker :

    You shadowed [INTENDED TARGET] last night. They visited X/nobody.

    Spoiler : Scout :

    You shadowed [INTENDED TARGET] last night. They were visited by X, Y, Z/nobody.

    Spoiler : Investigator :

    You investigated [INTENDED TARGET] last night. Their role is:

    Spoiler : Coward :

    You hid behind X last night.

    Spoiler : Tailor :

    You suited [INTENDED TARGET] last night, causing them to appear as " " if they flip.

    Spoiler : Operator :

    You switched X and Y last night, swapping their targets. X will now target Y's target, and vice versa.
    You feel a dominating spell controlling your actions. You were visited by an Operator!



    What Bartender action wouldn't be "anti-town as hell"?
    That's some poor bastard whoever would get unlucky enough to roll a green Bartender.

  4. #584

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I'm trying to figure out... how would a green Bartender play the game? The only thing I could come up with is doing nothing while claiming his actual role.
    The Bartender can give fake feedback if his choosing, here is the list of all potential feedbacks:

    What Bartender action wouldn't be "anti-town as hell"?
    That's some poor bastard whoever would get unlucky enough to roll a green Bartender.
    Maybe 'poisoning' someone and then saying they weren't actually poisoned during the day chat. It's confirmable after the day.

    Literally, the strategy would be to try and prove that you used your action in a non malicious, info give-y way.

    Also, I did do that mag!! You also should have given me the snitch role.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  5. #585

  6. #586

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Maybe 'poisoning' someone and then saying they weren't actually poisoned during the day chat. It's confirmable after the day.

    Literally, the strategy would be to try and prove that you used your action in a non malicious, info give-y way.

    Also, I did do that mag!! You also should have given me the snitch role.
    Ya this
    and yeah I should’ve haha
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  7. #587

  8. #588

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    Bartender doesn’t have to be anti-town actually.
    It doesn't. It just was in this context. He was explicitly trying to decieve me into thinking he gave me a gun and that he was gunsmith. Frankly MM knows I like mechanical interactions and it probably would have worked.

    It'd be different if you gave a role fake feedback without saying you did and tested their reactions over the day; did they reveal their gun, did they say they were switched etc.

  9. #589

  10. #590

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I'm trying to figure out... how would a green Bartender play the game? The only thing I could come up with is doing nothing while claiming his actual role.
    The Bartender can give fake feedback if his choosing, here is the list of all potential feedbacks:

    What Bartender action wouldn't be "anti-town as hell"?
    That's some poor bastard whoever would get unlucky enough to roll a green Bartender.
    Probably what Voss said, since it has no really bad consequences.

    I could also see a green Bartender claiming on D1 and asking people which feedback they want to recieve for confirmation.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?

  11. #591

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    I’m definitely planning to host this again at some point, currently considering making a version with 13p
    Good idea the game was fun, but expectedly quick.

    Also @blinkskater I play differently when you're in the game, simply because you give a lot of info AND tend to detect my alignment well following certain strategies... this game, I did not have to care about you lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?

  12. #592

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    It doesn't. It just was in this context. He was explicitly trying to decieve me into thinking he gave me a gun and that he was gunsmith. Frankly MM knows I like mechanical interactions and it probably would have worked.

    It'd be different if you gave a role fake feedback without saying you did and tested their reactions over the day; did they reveal their gun, did they say they were switched etc.
    Oh yeah definitely, I agree. In this context it was scummy
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  13. #593

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    I’m definitely planning to host this again at some point, currently considering making a version with 13p
    13p sounds exponentially more fun for this particular setup.
    Like, the fun in this setup is the large variety of possibilities.
    But as we saw here, after just 1 game night - the possibilities of "what happened" were extremely limited. Not even a theoretical "there was an Operator or Busdriver mixing shit up" was considerable. A straight up "here is what happened, the end" after just one night, with just one or 2 other theories coming up that only Efe would fall for.

  14. #594

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    13p sounds exponentially more fun for this particular setup.
    Like, the fun in this setup is the large variety of possibilities.
    But as we saw here, after just 1 game night - the possibilities of "what happened" were extremely limited. Not even a theoretical "there was an Operator or Busdriver mixing shit up" was considerable. A straight up "here is what happened, the end" after just one night, with just one or 2 other theories coming up that only Efe would fall for.
    The day two gamestate was due to Efe's role check on MM contradicting what MM said.

    -MM was scummy to me but in a vacuum I may have been inclined to believe his GS claim.
    -Considering he directly supported MM's visitation, I didn't SR Huey until his refusal to vote MM (which again was due because of Efe's check.)

    The odds of Efe picking MM were at the time, 1/6 (MM, Huey, Me, Light, Lawyer, Voss)

    Funny enough, MM only softed at the fake-gun when I voted him and doubled down on the Gunsmith claim (making it a 100% cc to Efe) after I tried to role-swap.

    This game just happened to be unfortunate for scum and very unfortunate for Town.
    I have no doubts that the eight player version of this have gone to day three easily, probably day four.
    Last edited by Frinckles; December 3rd, 2019 at 08:56 AM.

  15. #595

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    The day two gamestate was due to Efe's role check on MM contradicting what MM said.

    -MM was scummy to me but in a vacuum I may have been inclined to believe his GS claim.
    -Considering he directly supported MM's visitation, I didn't SR Huey until his refusal to vote MM (which again was due because of Efe's check.)

    The odds of Efe picking MM were at the time, 1/6 (MM, Huey, Me, Light, Lawyer, Voss)

    Funny enough, MM only softed at the fake-gun when I voted him and doubled down on the Gunsmith claim (making it a 100% cc to Efe) after I tried to role-swap.

    This game just happened to be unfortunate for scum and very unfortunate for Town.
    I have no doubts that the eight player version of this have gone to day three easily, probably day four.
    Hmm.. here is a thought.

    In "mechanics heavy" setups such as this - it is fair to assume that the Mafia are strongest on D2, and every following day the Mafia get weaker and weaker due to the Towns PoE getting smaller and smaller from just simple role counting, yes?

    I'm just thinking...
    Could that be an argument AGAINST 13p setup? Because unlike vanilla setups - here at lylo the game would come down to a simple 1-2 player sized PoE from just mechanics alone.
    This could be true whatever the player count, be it 8 or 13. I'm just thinking that maybe 13p would make for more boring days? My original argument in my last comment only thought about D2 in particular.

  16. #596

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Hmm.. here is a thought.

    In "mechanics heavy" setups such as this - it is fair to assume that the Mafia are strongest on D2, and every following day the Mafia get weaker and weaker due to the Towns PoE getting smaller and smaller from just simple role counting, yes?

    I'm just thinking...
    Could that be an argument AGAINST 13p setup? Because unlike vanilla setups - here at lylo the game would come down to a simple 1-2 player sized PoE from just mechanics alone.
    This could be true whatever the player count, be it 8 or 13. I'm just thinking that maybe 13p would make for more boring days? My original argument in my last comment only thought about D2 in particular.
    Mechanical setups and ones with many PRs do have a way of creating processes of elimination for sure. The kicker is usually that multiple alignment roles require scumhunting and reasoning still. A 13p version of this would have a lot more moving parts but I think the premise would largely be the same. Theres also a theory about power role dampening which is applicable to role-madness setups you see on the SC2Mod in which things become less chaotic.

    More to the point though, in 2 of the 4 FM games I've played: Scum/Town has narrowly found or avoided mechanical reprecussions based off low-chance events.

    In this example, Efe picked a 1/6 chance of unraveling the Mafias entire plan, or most of it.

    Another one I'd give would be Unknown fake-claiming Tracker who saw Magoroth's exact target when he was healing MM. It 95% confirmed him and found us the doctor as scum.

    I think Sc2Mafia FM players need to buy lotto tickets.

  17. #597

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    The setup I'm hosting (that I need to finish) is intended to find a sweet spot between scumhunting processes of elimination and fakeclaiming.

    I'm using roles that compare alignments, visitations and lists of names but without explicitly naming scum. Of course I'm throwing in some Mafia deception to counteract this. I think it'll be fun.

  18. #598

  19. #599

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Hmm.. here is a thought.

    In "mechanics heavy" setups such as this - it is fair to assume that the Mafia are strongest on D2, and every following day the Mafia get weaker and weaker due to the Towns PoE getting smaller and smaller from just simple role counting, yes?

    I'm just thinking...
    Could that be an argument AGAINST 13p setup? Because unlike vanilla setups - here at lylo the game would come down to a simple 1-2 player sized PoE from just mechanics alone.
    This could be true whatever the player count, be it 8 or 13. I'm just thinking that maybe 13p would make for more boring days? My original argument in my last comment only thought about D2 in particular.
    The Mafia failed to take down the power roles quickly enough, and had no way to counter them (electromaniac, operator or bus driver, for example). So no, a 13P setup is not impossible, and could even be better than this game because of the amount of interactions; however, that's up to personal taste.

    You do have a point that I always consider when reviewing a setup, though. The game must not be solvable by pure mechanical play, at least not at too high odds, because when such a scenario happens, it is rarely fun for anyone, the Mafia having to make up lies that are necessarily illogical and more or less obvious. Good thought
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?

  20. #600

    Re: S-FM Standoff (8P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    The setup I'm hosting (that I need to finish) is intended to find a sweet spot between scumhunting processes of elimination and fakeclaiming.

    I'm using roles that compare alignments, visitations and lists of names but without explicitly naming scum. Of course I'm throwing in some Mafia deception to counteract this. I think it'll be fun.
    Another point that I like here : you have an idea behind your setup. Not just a flavor idea, but an idea of how you want the mechanics to play out in combination with gameplay, which is grounds for very well balanced and fun setups if they are fleshed out well enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?

 

 

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