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  1. #1

    Infiltrator [Mafia Support]

    The Infiltrator/The Eavesdropper
    (aka inf, infil, infilt, IT.)/(aka eaves, eav, eave, ED)
    Mafia/Triad Support

    You are an elite hacker who intercepts communications for organized crime syndicates.

    You share win cons with Mafia/Triad.

    Ability One: wiretapping:
    You have one or two uses for this ability, depending on role options.
    Night: Prepare the wiretaps for the morning using -wiretap or a button.
    Day: intercept every personal message said during day. You don't know who is PMing who, and any number in the PM is replaced with #.

    Ability Two: ECM Jamming
    You only have one use of this ability.
    Day: Prepare the ECM jammer using -ecm or a button.
    Night: Now the spy won't be able to read the mafia chat for one night straight. He will just see blank with no notification of ECM jamming. The spy might still see the visits depending on role options. The spy will still see the godfather kill regardless.

    Attributes
    - When you run out of uses for both of your abilities, you become a Mafioso/Enforcer.
    - Your fellow mafia/triad will be informed during daytime when the ECM jammer is being prepared. No one else will know.
    - Your fellow mafia/triad will be informed again at night time when the ECM jammer is in effect.

    Options:
    - Can wiretap (once/twice) [Default: ONCE]
    This option decides how many times the Infiltrator/Eavesdropper can wiretap.
    - ECM jammer hides visits (yes/no) [Default: NO]
    This option decides if the ECM jammer will hide who the other mafia roles visit. Godfather kills will NOT be hidden.




    Spoiler : Example scenario :

    this assumes that there are two wiretaps, and that the ECM hides visits.

    Day 1, night 1, day 2
    nothing relevant to the scenario

    Night 2
    "[You] is configuring the wiretaps." in mafia chat

    Day 3
    You are now reading every single PM. You see the following PMs:

    [??>??] ??: I tried to shoot ## but he was immune.
    [??>??] ??: hey dude i found out you are sheriff. Im investigator. Wanna team up? We will get # tonight.


    So you deduce that a vigilante tried to shoot a double-digit guy and failed.
    You also deduce that an investigator and a sheriff are teaming up to investigate a single-digit guy.

    Night 3
    "[You] is configuring the wiretaps." in mafia chat

    Day 4
    The mayor reveals.

    You get to see what role claims are being thrown around. Not all of the PMs are to the mayor, but you can safely assume that a majority of them are.

    But you notice this in particular:
    [??>??] ??: spy n# # killed, ## and # visited n# ## killed got shot by vig but healed

    So you prepare the ECM jammer. Your mafia mates, the Godfather and the Disguiser, see this message:

    [You] is preparing an ECM jammer for the night!

    The mayor ends up lynching an investigator claim, the same guy that found the sheriff. The sheriff is revealed to be 10.

    Night 4

    You are out of wiretaps.

    First message to show up in mafia chat for the mafia is:
    "The infiltrator/eavesdropper has deployed an ECM jammer. No one will be able to intercept our communications tonight."
    Spy will not know that an ECM jammer is in effect. He will just see an empty chat and assume mafia are just staying silent.

    So now yall discuss what to do next.

    You know that the spy is a double-digit guy. There are three possible people with double digit numbers excluding the proven sheriff: 11, 14, 15.
    You know exactly who the sheriff is. 10.

    With the spy threat gone for the night, you and the mafia thoroughly discuss the plans for the rest of the game, such as the amount of bodyguard claims and the likely matches, knowing full well there will never be another chance for completely private communication.

    All of you deduce that the spy is one of three people still alive. The godfather is coming to kill 11 tonight.
    You tell the disguiser how 10 speaks, and tell him to copy the LW of the sheriff. The disguiser is coming to kill 10 tonight.
    And you get ready to become a Mafioso in the morning now that both your wiretaps and your ECM are used up.

    GF gets witched to 5.

    Day 5.
    You are now a mafioso.
    4, the disguiser's first identity, is apparently killed by mafia but is cleaned. "10", his new identity, is sending the mayor a sheriff LW that shows you as innocent.
    5 is dead. He was the Vig.

    Mayor puts up 14.
    14 claims spy on trial and reports that the mafia was a little bit talkative the first 3 nights but became dead silent night 4.
    14 also claims that on night 4, all he saw was 11 dying to mafia. He didn't see 10 get disguised.
    Mayor proclaims gulity and the town follows.
    14 the Spy is mislynched.

    Now mafia can freely speak the rest of the game without the ECM, which was only one-use.






    So why should this role be added?

    In the current meta, the Spy might be boring because he doesn't see what the mafia says most of the time. That's because he is VERY POWERFUL at suppressing the mafia chat. The Spy is such a Chadly role that even the thought of his presence makes mafia/triad shut up.
    In the current meta, the Mayor and the Marshall can type a simple command to get a role call going without any hesitation from town. Veterans that slaughter a townie with a will pointing him out have a similar claim to legitimacy as town leader, and will similarly organize a role call.
    And in the future, the Crier might get a day ability that could allow him to initate a role call. Depends on how this other thread goes. (What? How?)

    So the Mafia can't communicate with eachother effectively because of the Spy, and Mayor/Marsh/Vet-led towns foster an information metagame that is heavily town-favored, since the Town (or atleast the leading player) knows a whole lot about what people are claiming and the mafia don't.

    So I proposed this role so that the Mafia can similarly acquire information like a reverse Spy, and counter spy atleast for one night in order to atleast communicate the next couple moves much more bluntly, based on the new information that can be acquired from wiretaps and other sources, just so that no one is misunderstood.
    Last edited by Grakylan; August 24th, 2019 at 09:26 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Infiltrator [Mafia Support]

    It's always tough with roles that depend on certain actions or settings. Like what does this role do in saves that have PMs off or spies disabled? It's why we haven't done roles that mess with the trial because of the rare save that uses majority. I personally really don't like the silent mafia meta and I think the best games come when they can plan properly (spies are disabled in my personal setups).

    I think this a decent idea for abilities but honestly it needs a dynamic for when their abilities do nothing (albiet not often) - it might also be able to interact with the new roles coming in like preventing party hosts from acting or criers from talking etc.
    Photobucket in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    if you have elixir to contend with gl hf

  3. #3

    Re: Infiltrator [Mafia Support]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    It's always tough with roles that depend on certain actions or settings. Like what does this role do in saves that have PMs off or spies disabled? It's why we haven't done roles that mess with the trial because of the rare save that uses majority. I personally really don't like the silent mafia meta and I think the best games come when they can plan properly (spies are disabled in my personal setups).

    I think this a decent idea for abilities but honestly it needs a dynamic for when their abilities do nothing (albiet not often) - it might also be able to interact with the new roles coming in like preventing party hosts from acting or criers from talking etc.
    Saves that confirm the lack of a spy are rare.
    Saves with PMs disabled are super rare.
    Saves with PMs disabled and confirmed lack of spy are extremely rare.

    So in most meta saves, the Infiltrator will have some use.

    I guess when Party Host gets added, the wiretaps can extend to the night after deployment to counter Party Host, but probably add a delay between wiretaps (or force one wiretap always, not allowing the option for two) to balance it out.

    We can just exclude Infiltrator from being selected from random slots if there is a confirmed lack of spy, PMs, and (and in future) Party Host. (the former two for now, all three if PH gets added)

    I heard theres a similar thing for Janitor to be excluded when the save options make him useless. Can you just apply that to Infiltrator?
    Last edited by Grakylan; August 24th, 2019 at 09:48 PM. Reason: moving to separate post

  4. #4

  5. #5

    Re: Infiltrator [Mafia Support]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    I think this a decent idea for abilities but honestly it needs a dynamic for when their abilities do nothing (albiet not often) - it might prevent criers from talking etc.
    Just noticed this. Horrible idea, since the crier's sole ability currently is talking at night to everyone. ECM jamming that ability away will ruin crier.

    If we are going to add more to the role, I suggest these alternatives:

    1. Block jailor from speaking to his captive and vice versa. Neither of them will be notified of the ECM effect being active.
    Jailor will see his messages but not see the captive's messages, and will assume that he is silent.
    Same goes for the captive: he can see his messages but not see the jailor's message, and thus will assume the jailor is silent.
    The only thing a jailor can do in this case is just leave him in jail and see if any kills are prevented.
    Or if he suspects an imminent ECM jam, he might instead decide on jailing a town gov or investigative role.
    He cant get role claims out of it, but still has some use even if ECM jammed. So ECM jamming the jailor might still work as an ability, but it might really trip up noob jailors.

    2. Block cult chat and rival chat. They will be notified of the ECM blocking their communications.
    (by "rival chat" i mean that the Mafia Infiltrator's ECM will ruin triad's night chat, and the Triad Eavesdropper's ECM will ruin mafia's night chat)
    ECM shutting out rival factions' night chats might be an interesting add, even if gang war and cult+mafia saves are rare.


    Ok yeah as I keep thinking about this role, this is starting to sound like both a Deception and Support role.
    Last edited by Grakylan; August 24th, 2019 at 09:53 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: Infiltrator [Mafia Support]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    It's always tough with roles that depend on certain actions or settings. Like what does this role do in saves that have PMs off or spies disabled? It's why we haven't done roles that mess with the trial because of the rare save that uses majority. I personally really don't like the silent mafia meta and I think the best games come when they can plan properly (spies are disabled in my personal setups).
    This. All of this. I should be able to tell my Kidnapper to kidnap and execute me as Godfather to confirm him without it being compromised. Mafia should be able to do some real crazy shenanigans but they simply can't with the threat of a Spy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    Saves with PMs disabled are super rare.
    I host saved with PMs disabled all the time. You'll get maybe one or two complaints, then they remember that they're playing a game and they communicate. I don't mind being called a shit host if it encourages people to gamesolve & be involved. It's anecdotal, sure -- but I've seen more acceptance with unique / different saves in the past month and a half than anytime before. To your point in the other thread; the meta will certainly shift post patch.

    Mechanically, I think this role should be investigated once we see how changes to communications effects the meta. Flavor wise, like @Faithful said -- good stuff.

    Speakin' of which, welcome to R&D Faithful. c:

  7. #7

  8. #8

    Re: Infiltrator [Mafia Support]

    To address the concern that this role is too niche:

    If the Infiltrator/Eavesdropper needs more stuff to do...

    Then we can add ANY of the following abilities to the ECM:

    - Shut down crier chat. Crier can still say whatever he wants at night, but no one will hear him. He will not be notified if he is ECM'd. I am very much against this since crier is shit right now, and this would destroy crier.

    - Shut down jailor chat. Jailor can't see what his victim says, and victim can't see what jailor says except for the execution notifications. Destroys jailor's ability to investigative, and if he is jailing a confirmed town for protection, he would probably like to talk to them. So in that case the only thing an ECM jammed jailor could do is jail to check for any missing kills. I am very much against this as well. I feel like just wiretapping and intercepting jailor's conversations is a better mechanic (see below) flavorwise and mechnically.

    - Shut down mason chat. Very geared towards cult vs mafia/triad game with mason leader and masons in play, but keep in mind that mason leader is a easily confirmable (kill cult to win) town govt role that can acquire loads of information and pass it down to his masons. So I think the ECM disabling the masons + ML from communicating seems to be the only additional ability to ECM i would want to add since it provides an important counterbalance to a more tight-knit town. Shutting down cult chat just probably won't be fair for cult.

    - Shut down party host chat. Party Host will be notified that he is ECM'd and will be refunded of his ability use. Would destroy Party Host's ability to do his role that night (flavor text: "Your party has to be delayed due to technical difficulties!").

    All of these ECM abilities are taking it too far I think, but with ECM being a one-night one-use ability, hmmmm idk...

    Or we can add a night wiretap ability, which has to be set up at day. It can do any of the following:

    - Intercept jailor chat. It will be specified as a jailor to victim interaction, formatted as [??>??] like a PM. Like with Day PMs, all numbers are replaced with # and all names are replaced with ??. Will net pretty much the same sort of information as a pm would for a day wiretap, but with more chances of successfuly obtaining sufficient information, but ONLY for two people. I think this ability might be neat.

    - Intercept cult chat. In current meta, the cult is immune from the spy, and no one will be able to tell what goes down in cult chat. If infiltrator is able to look into cult chat, it would make mafia vs cult games more interesting. Now, let's assume that cult will not be informed of them getting spied on by mafia/triad. Sure, people are going to say "but it makes cult shut up like mafia does right now!", but remember that the mafia can not just out-right say every tidbit of information they get because no town role can see cult chat, so they have to withhold some information and act in silence. In fact, if both they and the cult are outnumbered by town, the mafia might even play into schemes they know are planned by cult just so that more townies die at first. Sure it will restrain cult's ability to plan, but not as much as mafia's ability to plan is restrained by a town role that can safely declare every single piece of information that they know.

    probably not gonna put in intercept rival chat because if theres a town vs mafia vs triad game where a spy exists and say mafia has infiltrator, while triad doesnt have eavesdropper, than triad would be put at a much bigger disadvantage.
    Last edited by Grakylan; August 28th, 2019 at 02:44 PM. Reason: changed the ecm vs cult/mason chat point

 

 

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