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Thread: Crier

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  1. #1

    Crier

    So I've been talking to a lot of people about this in lobbies and over the coarse of playing Mafia again this past month.... But I feel crier needs a bit of a re-work. Or to be changed entirely into something else.

    I understand the point and capability of Crier. If I role Crier I try to confirm it, and take the "Govern" context to get roles from everyone and or swing town in the right direction. However, Most people I see just spam night chat with useless information and remain silent during the day, only eventually getting killed or lynched.
    The main reason for this I think is there is no ability or other power with the role other than the user being smart and using good deduction skills to figure things out. Unfortunately i'm Just not seeing enough games where the Crier helps town any if at all. Sometimes it's actually more negative than anything being people think he is a judge.

    My first suggestion would be is just to remove him as a govern option. Marshall and Mayor completely shadow a crier as far as usefulness. Sure, a bad Mayor and Marshall can devastate a town, but it is also a very powerful weapon as the Govern role implies.

    Interested in hearing your thoughts on this.


    I also had a idea for Governor to replace Crier, I'm just working out the details and abilities.

  2. #2

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackholeX View Post
    Just read it, but i'm only seeing a very few select people responding, in the greater population i'm seeing no1 is digging crier lol, to be fair.
    We're beating a horse' skeleton at this point.

    You outline in one way or another the current state of Crier / how it's perceived / played currently and the problems surrounding it. And in the short term: An option has been added for Judge to not be able to talk at night. This makes Crier confirmable over Judge.

    Longer term, it was mentioned that adding the ability for Crier to use his voice during the day might be beneficial with a toggle for it. I said I'd look into it eventually but I'm currently working on other things in regards to the map.

  5. #5

  6. #6

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    ah yes i want to be earraped at day

    why?
    Because this gives Crier actual ability to lead the town like i said in the previous thread. He can stay hidden but still tell town who should they trial for example or how should they vote in his opionion. You can't do that in night chat since you can't react to developing situation if you can only talk at night.

  7. #7

    Re: Crier

    I decided to put my proposals for judge/crier changes on a seperate post.

    1. Just outright color his night chat differently, with the word Crier replaced by Judge. Yes it destroys the deceptive power these two roles may have, but atleast it keeps judge's commanding power, which he will lose with frinkle's future meta, while upholding crier's confirmability

    2. Add RufusPL's suggestion to let Crier speak anonymously to the town at day with a toggle. (NOT VOICE CHAT)

    Crier's advantage over Mayor and Marshall is that he is basically always active in relative anonymity. But what Crier lacks from Mayor and Marshall is their ability to learn about the town directly. Mayor and Marshall's identities are proven to the town, allowing them to initiate role calls and lead the town using their knowledge of other people's claims. Crier's only way to confirm himself from what I see so far is to copy-paste the same message and rapidly post them both publicly and in crier mode at day.

    Day 1
    Random Guy: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd
    Crier: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd (like two seconds later after pressing a button for Crier toggle)

    If for some reason that is unable to be done, than Crier needs something else. I was thinking reading other people's PMs, but tbh it sounds more like a Spy ability, and it prevents evils from coordinating at day secretly (if they ever do).
    Not like evils coordinate during day anyways, so maybe its a good ability for crier. I don't know.

  8. #8

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    I decided to put my proposals for judge/crier changes on a seperate post.

    1. Just outright color his night chat differently, with the word Crier replaced by Judge. Yes it destroys the deceptive power these two roles may have, but atleast it keeps judge's commanding power, which he will lose with frinkle's future meta, while upholding crier's confirmability

    2. Add RufusPL's suggestion to let Crier speak anonymously to the town at day with a toggle. (NOT VOICE CHAT)

    Crier's advantage over Mayor and Marshall is that he is basically always active in relative anonymity. But what Crier lacks from Mayor and Marshall is their ability to learn about the town directly. Mayor and Marshall's identities are proven to the town, allowing them to initiate role calls and lead the town using their knowledge of other people's claims. Crier's only way to confirm himself from what I see so far is to copy-paste the same message and rapidly post them both publicly and in crier mode at day.

    Day 1
    Random Guy: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd
    Crier: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd (like two seconds later after pressing a button for Crier toggle)

    If for some reason that is unable to be done, than Crier needs something else. I was thinking reading other people's PMs, but tbh it sounds more like a Spy ability, and it prevents evils from coordinating at day secretly (if they ever do).
    Not like evils coordinate during day anyways, so maybe its a good ability for crier. I don't know.
    1. Maybe that will work. I don't know, I'm not pushing additional changes at the time while I finish the patch.

    2. Might do that.

    There's this thought that Judge exclusively counters Mayor and Marshall; Judge counters anyone he wants dead. Doesn't matter if it's a Town Government or a Serial Killer or even a Mafia member. That's why it's such a powerful role. Imagine if a Witch or an Auditor could indirectly speak with the Mafia -- should they be able to? Why or why not? Other Neutral Evils are at the mercy of being killed each night with little to no way of defending themselves and yet we're okay with a role in the same category being grossly stronger by comparison.

    If the consensus is let Judge talk at night, sure -- suggestion 1 sounds acceptable. But Judge was given the ability to talk at night so that it had a "fake claim" opportunity a very long time ago. Ironically enough, it completely invalidated Crier in the process. Judge has 'commanding' power during -court.

    Also don't call it 'frinckle's future meta' lol

  9. #9

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Also don't call it 'frinckle's future meta' lol
    I said that to refer to the meta after the big patch (which you are the mastermind of hence the name calling) when judge's night chat ability gets removed

    i dont mean to personally offend you.
    Last edited by Grakylan; August 24th, 2019 at 02:04 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    I said that to refer to the meta after the big patch (which you are the mastermind of hence the name calling) when judge's night chat ability gets removed

    i dont mean to personally offend you.
    It's all good. ^^ Just gives the impression that I'm the final judge of what goes into the patch. In truth there are a lot of people in administration who have been working on the ideas part of things. I just code it.

  11. #11

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Imagine if a Witch or an Auditor could indirectly speak with the Mafia -- should they be able to? Why or why not? Other Neutral Evils are at the mercy of being killed each night with little to no way of defending themselves and yet we're okay with a role in the same category being grossly stronger by comparison.
    Well, wasn't there discussion about witch making herself immune to any attacks only once by selecting herself as both targets? I would have sworn that was on the patch notes.

    As for auditor, maybe he will have a stronger sort of night immunity. If an evil killing role approaches them, he might live AND silence them for the day. As a form of blackmail and a taste of their own medicine for the mafia/triad, the auditor had threatened to have his fellow governmental minions leak the would-be killer's criminal record to the town government if he was killed. (of course the town instantly knowing the evil role's identity upon auditor death is NOT gonna happen, just a lore explanation for his immunity)

  12. #12

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    Well, wasn't there discussion about witch making herself immune to any attacks only once by selecting herself as both targets? I would have sworn that was on the patch notes.

    As for auditor, maybe he will have a stronger sort of night immunity. If an evil killing role approaches them, he might live AND silence them for the day. As a form of blackmail and a taste of their own medicine for the mafia/triad, the auditor had threatened to have his fellow governmental minions leak the would-be killer's criminal record to the town government if he was killed. (of course the town instantly knowing the evil role's identity upon auditor death is NOT gonna happen, just a lore explanation for his immunity)
    Yeah. The Witch Night Immunity is intended to work on the first attempted kill (you'll still die if attacked twice.) Afterward, she will not have any sort of immunity. The goal was to give her a bit more flexibility with controlling people to visit her safely early on. In the one play test where I got to see it in action -- it didn't really help much lol.. So it may be reverted. Normally I'm opposed to slapping night immunity on anything unless it's absolutely necessary (see Poisoner) but the opportunity to try out a 1-shot version of NI seemed interesting.

    My point was that Judge, compared to Witch or Auditor (we'll omit Cult for this one) is significantly stronger in most ways. It's the only Neutral Evil that can usually kill anyone and during the day, for starters. Add to that having a channel of communication with all scum, invalidating all Government roles or confirmed roles.. and yeah, well. I still stand by that if the general consensus is to leave Judge able to talk at night -- your idea makes sense but I'm not messing with the role outside of what's listed currently.

  13. #13

    Re: Crier

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    1. Imagine if a Witch or an Auditor could indirectly speak with the Mafia -- should they be able to? Why or why not? Other Neutral Evils are at the mercy of being killed each night with little to no way of defending themselves and yet we're okay with a role in the same category being grossly stronger by comparison.
    The thing is if pms are on then Witch and Auditor usually can easly contact with Mafia. Especially Auditor has easy time doing that, Witch is more tricky but she can then control GF every night if she finds him.

 

 

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