Crier

[BlackholeX]

So I've been talking to a lot of people about this in lobbies and over the coarse of playing Mafia again this past month.... But I feel crier needs a bit of a re-work. Or to be changed entirely into something else.

I understand the point and capability of Crier. If I role Crier I try to confirm it, and take the "Govern" context to get roles from everyone and or swing town in the right direction. However, Most people I see just spam night chat with useless information and remain silent during the day, only eventually getting killed or lynched.
The main reason for this I think is there is no ability or other power with the role other than the user being smart and using good deduction skills to figure things out. Unfortunately i'm Just not seeing enough games where the Crier helps town any if at all. Sometimes it's actually more negative than anything being people think he is a judge.

My first suggestion would be is just to remove him as a govern option. Marshall and Mayor completely shadow a crier as far as usefulness. Sure, a bad Mayor and Marshall can devastate a town, but it is also a very powerful weapon as the Govern role implies.

Interested in hearing your thoughts on this.


I also had a idea for Governor to replace Crier, I'm just working out the details and abilities.

[RufusPL]

There was a discussion about that like a month ago in this section "Crier vs Judge" i think so you can look it up.

[BlackholeX]

Just read it, but i'm only seeing a very few select people responding, in the greater population i'm seeing no1 is digging crier lol, to be fair.

[Frinckles]

Just read it, but i'm only seeing a very few select people responding, in the greater population i'm seeing no1 is digging crier lol, to be fair.

We're beating a horse' skeleton at this point.

You outline in one way or another the current state of Crier / how it's perceived / played currently and the problems surrounding it. And in the short term: An option has been added for Judge to not be able to talk at night. This makes Crier confirmable over Judge.

Longer term, it was mentioned that adding the ability for Crier to use his voice during the day might be beneficial with a toggle for it. I said I'd look into it eventually but I'm currently working on other things in regards to the map.

[Grakylan]

Longer term, it was mentioned that adding the ability for Crier to use his voice during the day might be beneficial with a toggle for it. I said I'd look into it eventually but I'm currently working on other things in regards to the map.

ah yes i want to be earraped at day

why?

[RufusPL]

ah yes i want to be earraped at day

why?

Because this gives Crier actual ability to lead the town like i said in the previous thread. He can stay hidden but still tell town who should they trial for example or how should they vote in his opionion. You can't do that in night chat since you can't react to developing situation if you can only talk at night.

[Grakylan]

Because this gives Crier actual ability to lead the town like i said in the previous thread. He can stay hidden but still tell town who should they trial for example or how should they vote in his opionion. You can't do that in night chat since you can't react to developing situation if you can only talk at night.

oh as in crier can anonymously talk to town at day via chat?

i misunderstood it as crier using voice chat and i was like wait what (vc is a thing in sc2 apparently i just never seen anyone use it)

[Frinckles]

oh as in crier can anonymously talk to town at day via chat?

i thought it was crier using voice chat and i was like wait what (vc is a thing in sc2 apparently i just never seen anyone use it)

SC2MAFIA /w VOICE CHAT

[Marshmallow Marshall]

oh as in crier can anonymously talk to town at day via chat?

i thought it was crier using voice chat and i was like wait what (vc is a thing in sc2 apparently i just never seen anyone use it)

Ooooooooooooh very useful. Could be used with a -crier command. It would make Crier actually fun in the current mod meta. Good idea.

[Frinckles]

Ooooooooooooh very useful. Could be used with a -crier command. It would make Crier actually fun in the current mod meta. Good idea.

Nawh fam. Itll be a button next to your name you click to toggle it on and off. This is 2019.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nawh fam. Itll be a button next to your name you click to toggle it on and off. This is 2019.

What about -court then? IS IT GOING TO WORK LIKE THAT TOO??

[BlackholeX]

Ooooooooooooh very useful. Could be used with a -crier command. It would make Crier actually fun in the current mod meta. Good idea.

This I agree with as well. It just needs a small boost to put it in line with the power that Marshall, and Mayor have. If some save gets made where there is no Marshall or Mayor, we allllll know how a crier only govern goes. Let's be honest here lol.

[Frinckles]

What about -court then? IS IT GOING TO WORK LIKE THAT TOO??

Bruh.

[Grakylan]

SC2MAFIA /w VOICE CHAT

Ooooooooooooh very useful. Could be used with a -crier command. It would make Crier actually fun in the current mod meta. Good idea.

Nawh fam. Itll be a button next to your name you click to toggle it on and off. This is 2019.

What about -court then? IS IT GOING TO WORK LIKE THAT TOO??

This I agree with as well. It just needs a small boost to put it in line with the power that Marshall, and Mayor have. If some save gets made where there is no Marshall or Mayor, we allllll know how a crier only govern goes. Let's be honest here lol.

Bruh.

bruh i merely misunderstood what rufus meant by voice

i swear to god dont add crier voice chat. it might be useful, but i feel that with the sc2 community, it will get really fucking obnoxious WHEN people micspam

not to mention how is that shit gonna be logged and preserved for reports?

oh and then people might just start associating voices with the actual players and act according to their ooc grudges with said players and not on ic information

EDIT: not to mention that some criers may have no mics or shit mics, and their townies may have a hard time understanding the crier if he can only use voice chat.

[Grakylan]

I decided to put my proposals for judge/crier changes on a seperate post.

1. Just outright color his night chat differently, with the word Crier replaced by Judge. Yes it destroys the deceptive power these two roles may have, but atleast it keeps judge's commanding power, which he will lose with frinkle's future meta, while upholding crier's confirmability

2. Add RufusPL's suggestion to let Crier speak anonymously to the town at day with a toggle. (NOT VOICE CHAT)

Crier's advantage over Mayor and Marshall is that he is basically always active in relative anonymity. But what Crier lacks from Mayor and Marshall is their ability to learn about the town directly. Mayor and Marshall's identities are proven to the town, allowing them to initiate role calls and lead the town using their knowledge of other people's claims. Crier's only way to confirm himself from what I see so far is to copy-paste the same message and rapidly post them both publicly and in crier mode at day.

Day 1
Random Guy: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd
Crier: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd (like two seconds later after pressing a button for Crier toggle)

If for some reason that is unable to be done, than Crier needs something else. I was thinking reading other people's PMs, but tbh it sounds more like a Spy ability, and it prevents evils from coordinating at day secretly (if they ever do).
Not like evils coordinate during day anyways, so maybe its a good ability for crier. I don't know.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

bruh i merely misunderstood what rufus meant by voice

i swear to god dont add crier voice chat. it might be useful, but i feel that with the sc2 community, it will get really fucking obnoxious WHEN people micspam

not to mention how is that shit gonna be logged and preserved for reports?

oh and then people might just start associating voices with the actual players and act according to their ooc grudges with said players and not on ic information

EDIT: not to mention that some criers may have no mics or shit mics, and their townies may have a hard time understanding the crier if he can only use voice chat.

But I didn't suggest voice chat either... you misunderstood the same thing AGAIN lol. There is no plan about making a voice chat crier, from my understanding.

[Frinckles]

I decided to put my proposals for judge/crier changes on a seperate post.

1. Just outright color his night chat differently, with the word Crier replaced by Judge. Yes it destroys the deceptive power these two roles may have, but atleast it keeps judge's commanding power, which he will lose with frinkle's future meta, while upholding crier's confirmability

2. Add RufusPL's suggestion to let Crier speak anonymously to the town at day with a toggle. (NOT VOICE CHAT)

Crier's advantage over Mayor and Marshall is that he is basically always active in relative anonymity. But what Crier lacks from Mayor and Marshall is their ability to learn about the town directly. Mayor and Marshall's identities are proven to the town, allowing them to initiate role calls and lead the town using their knowledge of other people's claims. Crier's only way to confirm himself from what I see so far is to copy-paste the same message and rapidly post them both publicly and in crier mode at day.

Day 1
Random Guy: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd
Crier: aakofjiaosgjadgjlagd (like two seconds later after pressing a button for Crier toggle)

If for some reason that is unable to be done, than Crier needs something else. I was thinking reading other people's PMs, but tbh it sounds more like a Spy ability, and it prevents evils from coordinating at day secretly (if they ever do).
Not like evils coordinate during day anyways, so maybe its a good ability for crier. I don't know.

1. Maybe that will work. I don't know, I'm not pushing additional changes at the time while I finish the patch.

2. Might do that.

There's this thought that Judge exclusively counters Mayor and Marshall; Judge counters anyone he wants dead. Doesn't matter if it's a Town Government or a Serial Killer or even a Mafia member. That's why it's such a powerful role. Imagine if a Witch or an Auditor could indirectly speak with the Mafia -- should they be able to? Why or why not? Other Neutral Evils are at the mercy of being killed each night with little to no way of defending themselves and yet we're okay with a role in the same category being grossly stronger by comparison.

If the consensus is let Judge talk at night, sure -- suggestion 1 sounds acceptable. But Judge was given the ability to talk at night so that it had a "fake claim" opportunity a very long time ago. Ironically enough, it completely invalidated Crier in the process. Judge has 'commanding' power during -court.

Also don't call it 'frinckle's future meta' lol

[Frinckles]

There is no plan about making a voice chat crier, from my understanding.

How can you be so sure?

( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Grakylan]

Also don't call it 'frinckle's future meta' lol

I said that to refer to the meta after the big patch (which you are the mastermind of hence the name calling) when judge's night chat ability gets removed

i dont mean to personally offend you.

[Frinckles]

I said that to refer to the meta after the big patch (which you are the mastermind of hence the name calling) when judge's night chat ability gets removed

i dont mean to personally offend you.

It's all good. ^^ Just gives the impression that I'm the final judge of what goes into the patch. In truth there are a lot of people in administration who have been working on the ideas part of things. I just code it.