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  1. #1

    Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    "You are a retired specialist of a clandestine civilian agency, experienced in spiriting away persons of interest."

    This role is from a background of witness protection, who in the past played a key role in hiding persons of world-wide interest in danger of their lives. This role has the power to pick somebody from the town to appear "dead," and their role will appear in the graveyard, uncensored/censored, with a myriad of options to make it appear that the person was killed in a certain way (eg. Mafia/Triad hit, Vigilante shooting, Bus Driver car crash, etc all possible deaths) so that to the general town's knowledge, the target of this ability can no longer participate in influencing the course of the game. In reality however, the player is not actually dead, but can no longer communicate during the daytime, only at night with the Operative in a Jailor/Jailed fashion. The key difference is that the ward will still be able to use their powers at night if they so desire, making them untargetable, although their movements will still be able to be detected by roles such as Lookout/Agent/Vanguard, where it will become clear the person supposedly dead is not really dead. The ward can choose to leave custody if they please, the Operative can also reveal their presence, in both cases, the whole town will receive a public notice similar to an Amnesiac's where they are shown taking a particular role, naturally lacking the Amnesiac's anonymity, something like:
    "Ford Prefect has come out of hiding"

    If the Operative is targetted by a killing role, they will no longer have their ability active, thus the ward is revealed. If the Operative has been doused and ignited by an Arsonist or is the target of a Mass Murderer, both the Operative and the ward die. So although it is a powerful role, it does have its weaknesses. Not sure what type it should be, maybe Government or Power/Protective, just thought I'd flesh out and share this idea because I'm bored at work lel.

    [X] Limited to one use - default
    [ ] Limited to two uses
    [ ] Time limit of one day active
    [ ] Time limit of two days active
    [ ] Time limit of three days active
    Etc.

    Just thought I'd share and get some feedback.
    Last edited by Da FuZzMeIsTeR; August 21st, 2019 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Missing word

  2. #2

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  4. #4

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    why limit the role? is it that OP?
    Well, considering that if the Operative finds a powerful town role, and can make it appear as if it has been eliminated from the game, then evils will behave differently, more boldly, and will inadvertently make themselves vulnerable when they try for a take over. I think it could be very powerful in the vein of mind-games, where evils are never sure if there is an Operative out there with a ward who is still capable of using their night power and can come out of hiding to add to the town vote, so an ability like this is unprecedented compared to other role functions. It'd be like a town-aligned Judge. So, I'm not sure what limitations would be desireable by players in particular setups.

  5. #5

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    i think the drawback to this role is that town loses a vote, which is dangerous for number games.

    also, what do you think about not revealing the naked role on "death", and it just being a (???) death? might make it a less of a confirmation game.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  6. #6

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Yeah true, I realised afterwards that for the trust factor of the role to be an obstacle, the graveyard role will have to be censored after all, or a misleading role provided to the player when they have become a ward, which is somehow later on removed from the graveyard when they come out of hiding.

  7. #7

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    That flavor text is excellent and I love the idea of a witness protection type role in this game. Also, in a game where interacting with the dead is a no-no you managed to come up with a neat mechanic that threads the needle perfectly. Kudos. If it's ever implemented though, it will most likely be seen as a suicide -- manipulating death sounds is more complex than you'd think.

    If you're plan on sticking to the current direction you're taking the role, I'd just make some small changes to the actual mechanics of the role. Just ask who it hurts / helps more and when.

    If you're open to implementing other mechanics that might compliment the flavor a bit more -- check into roles like Commuter/Alien/Rolestopper/Architect.. concepts like Ascetic as well. Just try not to make it a stronger version of doctor/escort/jailor haha. c:



    I actually wrote a wall of text about this role ..but the power went out.

  8. #8

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    I like this role.

    What sort of crimes would Operative have? Depending on what he has, he provides an easy fake claim for evil roles that would have otherwise been compromised if their unique crimes were found, which adds to how great the role is.

    I think the Operative should have the following crimes: (assuming that investigator will only see some of them and not all at once guaranteed 100%)

    - Identity Theft. The Operative is tampering with the identity of a body double to stand in as the "dead victim". In current meta, only the disguiser/informant gets this crime, so if an investigator finds the disguiser/informant's crime, than they can claim Operative and probably get away with it.

    - Destruction of Property. The Operative probably had to destroy a couple documents or artifacts to ensure that the faked death looks as authentic as possible. In current meta, the only town role to have this is Veteran, who can easily confirm themselves. So any evil roles caught with DoP (Janitor/IM, MM, Arso) are screwed 90% of the time... Not anymore if they claim Operative.

    - Corruption. Obviously, the Operative works with the government to enforce the witness protection program. However, the evil roles that have this crime, Judge and Auditor, are paired with only Marshall and Mayor, who can instantly confirm themselves and tip the balance of the game in the town's favor at the moment. So like with IT and DoP, giving Operative Corruption gives Judge and Auditor some leeway.

    - Trespassing. Just to put it on par with other town protectives.

    Should Operative be a powerful town role? Yes. But should powerful non-killing evil roles be given a way out to balance the addition of the Operative? Also yes.




    Second part of response:

    I think the death shouldn't be cleaned like with Janitor.

    In current meta, the only situation where mafia would see a cleaned role that isn't theirs would be if the triad was present in that game and they had the Incense Master. Of course the chance of a mafia vs triad save being active is non-existent, and the chance of one of those two factions having their cleaner role actually do something is triple non-existent.

    So if the mafia/triad doesn't clean one night (either cuz janitor/IM or Disguiser/Informant decides not to, or they dont have Janitor/IM or Disguiser/informant), and they see a cleaned role show up, they will KNOW the operative exists if the operative cleans role and last will. The mindgames that the Operative can play on evils to help town won't even exist.

    It is best that Operative gets to fake a death how they want to, and there is no reflection of falsity in the death message, sound, or description. I don't want the role to be cleaned. I don't want the death description to change even a word like adding "supposedly/apparently shot at close range", as it reflects doubt.
    Last edited by Grakylan; August 21st, 2019 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    I see 2 problems, firstly taking votes away from town can be really problematic taking in consideration how fast sc2 mafia games are and how dispersed playerbase in terms of skill and game knowledge. You usually have only few people who understand this game per lobby so if you take out their ability to influence rest of the town by voting and speaking it will probably go really bad for town very fast. And second problem lies in actually disguising that death in a way it won't be obvious for scums that it wasn't a real kill. Random suicide in a middle of a game will be very suspicious, GF/DH kill and Neutral Killing kill gives it pretty much away as soon as it is shown. Cleaning it completely also gives it away since there is only one role which can do it and it isn't a town role. Vigilante and Veteran are town roles but it can really mess with town knowledge if Vet/Vigi kill randomly pops up in the middle of the game.
    Last edited by RufusPL; August 21st, 2019 at 04:45 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    I think using Serial Killer is probably fine. Only one person knows that the kill is faked, rather than a team of people.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  11. #11

  12. #12

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I think using Serial Killer is probably fine. Only one person knows that the kill is faked, rather than a team of people.
    If real Serial Killer also killed that night (which will happen almost always if he is still alive) then everyone will know one of it is fake.

  13. #13

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I think using Serial Killer is probably fine. Only one person knows that the kill is faked, rather than a team of people.
    >load 933/8331
    >nk is mm or arso
    >only one nk possible
    >operative spawns in
    >randomly in middle of game, the confirmed lookout dies
    >p o s t m o r t e m s t a b w o u n d s

    need to make it more flexible. it has to change to MM or arso if those roles are the only possible neutral killing roles in the save.

  14. #14

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    >load 933/8331
    >nk is mm or arso
    >only one nk possible
    >operative spawns in
    >randomly in middle of game, the confirmed lookout dies
    >p o s t m o r t e m s t a b w o u n d s

    need to make it more flexible. it has to change to MM or arso if those roles are the only possible neutral killing roles in the save.
    It still won't work, maybe with arson but with MM and SK it would be easy to notice if it is fake or not

  15. #15

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusPL View Post
    If real Serial Killer also killed that night (which will happen almost always if he is still alive) then everyone will know one of it is fake.
    It cuts down detection by 33%.

    But thinking on it more, suicide is probably more meta game-y. and that's a plus.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  16. #16

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    It cuts down detection by 33%.

    But thinking on it more, suicide is probably more meta game-y. and that's a plus.
    how is it a plus?

    Operator sounds like a really good role to play mindgames on the evils. If the death doesn't seem suspicious, than evils might be bolder in their assertions, which can out them once the protected target comes out of hiding. This is an idea that OP has figured can make games more interesting. Making it suicide makes it less likely......


    Unless the way to hide the target is something like this:

    Night 1.
    Operative picks a target. Target does whatever he wants.

    Day 2.
    If the target dies N1, operative can't do his thing. He will participate in day chat as normal and get to try again on Night 2. This does NOT use up a use.

    If the target survives N1, then the target and the operative will participate in day phase as usual....

    but at a random time during the day phase (can be discussion or any part of voting/trial),
    the target is told by the operative to follow him out of town, and the target will have no choice but to agree.
    The target loses his chatting and voting privileges for the day.
    The operative can participate in day chat as normal.
    BUT, everyone except the target and the operative will see the same leaver message for the target.
    "Target has given up on life."
    Target's name on the name list will appear as if he left.

    Night 2.
    Target can still do their action.
    The target can talk,
    but the Operative is too busy manipulating the death scene to respond.
    Target's name on the name list will appear as if he left.

    Day 3.
    It will be officially announced to the town that the target died from committing suicide (because he supposedly left the game).
    The target's fake LW, as shown to town, will be the last saved copy of the LW before he is spotted by the operative.
    The target can not talk or vote at day.
    The operative can participate as normal.
    The target's name will not be on the name list at all.

    Night 3.
    Target can still do their action.
    Now that the operative isn't busy, the target and the operative can converse with eachother.

    Day 4.
    The target can not talk or vote at day.
    The operative can participate as normal.
    The target's name will not be on the name list at all.

    Repeat N3+D4 until target is released, target is discovered, operative dies, or operative is discovered.
    Last edited by Grakylan; August 21st, 2019 at 07:22 PM.

  17. #17

    Re: Role Suggestion: Witness Protector/Operative

    Having a player able to act but not vote in some kind of pseudo not dead limbo will probably break the engine.... the only way I can see it happening is a one use town disguiser that can't target self... So makes one person disguise as another. Witness protection by making one person literally someone else.... which I don't see as a massive benefit to town unless you were trying to hide a protective or something. Even if you hit a mafia the mafia would probably see through it immediately
    Photobucket in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    if you have elixir to contend with gl hf

 

 

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