[Approved Experimental] S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)
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  1. ISO #1

    S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)

    S-FM St. Mildred's Horror
    7P/9P
    It is the year 1150. English knights have returned home from the Holy Land, carrying with them untold riches and the plundered wealth of the Levant. Rumours have it that the legendary Ark of the Covenant and even the Staff of Moses would be brought to England by the knights.
    The Benedictine monks of the Isle of Thanet have been entrusted with caring for the Ark and other hallowed artifacts, and a handful of the more senior monks have formed a close-knit and secretive Brotherhood whose sole purpose is to guard the holy items. Of these monks, only one knows the true location of the shrine that holds these objects. Each of them holds part of a key that opens the Shrine.
    Coveting the power of the Ark and the Staff for itself, an ancient Demon has awakened from its slumber and has assumed physical form as one of the monks, intending to find the staff and the ark and use them for horrific, unholy acts. Already a string of suspicious and gruesome murders have been reported on the Isle of Thanet. The Church, fearing the worst, has dispatched a God-fearing exorcist to assist the monks...

    Spoiler : 1 Scum - Setup :


    Role List

    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Demon (Blackmailer)

    Role Cards

    Spoiler : Monk :
    You are a Monk at St. Mildred's Priory.
    You have no special abilities.

    Spoiler : Demon :
    You are a vile Demon masquerading as one of God's devout monks.
    You may send a player an anonymous message at the end of the day phase (the action may be submitted at any time during the day phase) cursing them into executing a demand of yours on the penalty of death. The effects last for only one day.

    Mechanics & Rules
    Lynch is plurality w/ majority.
    Last wills allowed.
    The Demon's ability has the following restrictions:

    Spoiler : Restrictions :
    You are not allowed to blackmail someone into not posting, or into posting a certain number of times a day.
    You are not allowed to restrict a player's ability to post, meaning you cannot force them to only post one specific message all day (but you
    can for example force them to post a certain message during the day).
    You cannot demand more than two things at the same time.
    You are not allowed to set conditions that imply a time limit.
    You cannot restrict a player's ability to vote, apart from asking them not to vote another player.
    You ARE allowed to force them to reveal their last will.
    Your target is NOT allowed to reveal that they are blackmailed. They may soft-claim it however.
    You CANNOT force a player to successfully lynch a target. You can ask them to push someone
    however.
    You cannot blackmail someone more than twice in a row.
    You cannot blackmail someone into claiming that they are currently blackmailed. You may however force them to say that they were, at one point, blackmailed.


    Days last 48, or 24h if a majority is reached no more than 24h in.
    There is no night phase.
    Standard FM rules apply.
    This means no quoting or SS'ing host feedback or PMs, no OGC
    ,nogamethrowing/pretending to gamethrow, no griefing.
    English only, etc
    Minimum post count of 5 posts per day.


    Wincons
    Town wins when the Demon dies.
    The Demon wins if they survive and no more than
    threetown are still alive.

    Spoiler : 2-Scum Setup :


    Role List

    Exorcist
    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Monk
    Prince of Hell (Demon - Godfather)
    Greater Demon (Demon)

    Role Cards
    Spoiler : Monk :
    You are a Monk at St. Mildred's Priory.
    You have no special abilities.

    Spoiler : Exorcist :
    You are a devout, God-fearing priest, sent to St. Mildred's Priory in light of the demonic taint haunting the Island.
    You may protect a player from Demonic Curse, preventing them from suffering the ill-effects of a blackmail that night. Neither you nor the player who was blackmailed will be informed if a protection is successful (they will not receive the Blackmailer's message).

    Spoiler : Demon :
    You are a vile Demon masquerading as one of God's devout monks.
    Factional Ability: Send a player an anonymous message at the end of the day phase (the action may be submitted at any time during the day phase) cursing them into executing a demand of your team's on the penalty of death. The effects last for only one day.
    Alternatively, you may forgo your factional ability to check a player at the end of the day. If they are the Exorcist, they will die. You share a day chat with the other demon. The Prince of Hell has the final say on the day action .

    Mechanics & Rules
    Lynch is plurality w/ majority.
    Last wills allowed.
    The Demon's ability has the following restrictions:

    Spoiler : Restrictions :
    You are not allowed to blackmail someone into not posting, or into posting a certain number of times a day.
    You are not allowed to restrict a player's ability to post, meaning you cannot force them to only post one specific message all day (but you
    can for example force them to post a certain message during the day).
    You cannot demand more than two things at the same time.
    You are not allowed to set conditions that imply a time limit.
    You cannot restrict a player's ability to vote, apart from asking them not to vote another player.
    You ARE allowed to force them to reveal their last will.
    Your target is NOT allowed to reveal that they are blackmailed. They may soft-claim it however.
    You CANNOT force a player to successfully lynch a target. You can ask them to push someone
    however.
    You cannot blackmail someone more than twice in a row.
    You cannot blackmail someone into claiming that they are currently blackmailed. You may however force them to say that they were, at one point, blackmailed.


    Days last 48, or 24h if a majority is reached no more than 24h in.
    There is no night phase.
    Standard FM rules apply.
    This means no quoting or SS'ing host feedback or PMs, no OGC
    ,nogamethrowing/pretending to gamethrow, no griefing.
    English only, etc
    Minimum post count of 5 posts per day.


    Wincons
    Town wins when the Demons die.
    If one Demon is still alive, they win if no more than three townies are still alive.
    Otherwise, if two Demons are still alive, they win if no more than four townies are still alive.



    Last edited by Oberon; December 22nd, 2020 at 06:20 AM.

  2. ISO #2
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM Faust

    @Marshmallow Marshall , @Damus_Graves , @AIVION please review, I can host this before blink's game just so we have a game going on (shouldn't take more than 8 days IRL)

  3. ISO #3

    Re: S-FM Faust

    First of all, thanks for making a setup that is clear and easy to read! It really helps the reviewing process, and allows for better comprehension from players.


    Questions

    What happens if the two Demons do not agree on who to blackmail, or on what the blackmail message should be? Please specify it in the setup.

    How long does the blackmail last? I assume it lasts for a day, but please specify it.

    Once the blackmail ends, can the target claim they were blackmailed? If so, how many details can they give on the orders that were given to them (paraphrasing, copypasting, general idea without more?)

    Is the blackmail "Claim that you are (currently) blackmailed to do X" valid? Is the blackmail "Claim that you were blackmailed to do X" valid? If they are, what happens in the first case? Potential loophole.


    Suggestions

    Specifying the amount of players in the spoilers and the thread's title would allow people to see the setup's size easily.

    The game has a low amount of power roles (which is very good and interesting), with a nice storyline that you already wrote. It would be great to have a game with a lot of lore/flavor in host posts when you have time for it. Obviously, this is only a suggestion to make the game more enjoyable; while it is not necessary, it would improve the experience.

    Assuming blackmail lasts for a day, Demons can blackmail someone for the entire game, right? I believe a limit of two blackmails in a row to the same person should be set, to avoid someone's game being ruined by constant blackmails; two blackmailed days should be enough to create any effect demons would want to create.


    Balance

    7 Monks against 2 Demons with a permanent chat and a factional blackmail ability seems biased towards scum, because of the potential confusion created by coordinated scum who can manipulate townies in a quite small game.
    This issue could probably be solved by adding a weak power role to Town, or by adding more Monks. If you choose to add a power role, here is a suggestion.

    Protector : Can protect a player from demon blackmail for the next day. Has two charges that are consumed even if no blackmail was prevented.


    @Magoroth
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  4. ISO #4
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM Faust

    Thanks for the quick review! A few things first. Originally this setup had only one scum, however I felt that a one-scum game would be quite difficult and maybe not even enjoyable for the town. So I decided to add an extra Demon and a Monk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    First of all, thanks for making a setup that is clear and easy to read! It really helps the reviewing process, and allows for better comprehension from players.


    Questions

    1. What happens if the two Demons do not agree on who to blackmail, or on what the blackmail message should be? Please specify it in the setup.

    2. How long does the blackmail last? I assume it lasts for a day, but please specify it.

    3. Once the blackmail ends, can the target claim they were blackmailed? If so, how many details can they give on the orders that were given to them (paraphrasing, copypasting, general idea without more?)

    4. Is the blackmail "Claim that you are (currently) blackmailed to do X" valid? Is the blackmail "Claim that you were blackmailed to do X" valid? If they are, what happens in the first case? Potential loophole.
    1. Err. Good question. I'm thinking of forcing them to reach a consensus before they submit their night action. Otherwise I'll just turn one Demon into a Godfather-esque role who has the final say on the factional.

    2. It lasts for no more, and no less than a day.

    3. Yes, they can. They're allowed to C/P. But not to quote/SS.

    4. a) No, and good point. It shouldn't be valid because that might make the Blackmail ability a bit too scumsided (it would mean that someone who decides to go against the blackmail wouldn't effectively become confirmed town). b) Yes, that blackmail is totally valid, it does not break any rules and isn't *too* scumsided.


    Suggestions

    1. Specifying the amount of players in the spoilers and the thread's title would allow people to see the setup's size easily.

    2. The game has a low amount of power roles (which is very good and interesting), with a nice storyline that you already wrote. It would be great to have a game with a lot of lore/flavor in host posts when you have time for it. Obviously, this is only a suggestion to make the game more enjoyable; while it is not necessary, it would improve the experience.

    3. Assuming blackmail lasts for a day, Demons can blackmail someone for the entire game, right? I believe a limit of two blackmails in a row to the same person should be set, to avoid someone's game being ruined by constant blackmails; two blackmailed days should be enough to create any effect demons would want to create.
    1. Wildo
    2. I'm planning to do that
    3. Fair point, I'll take you up on this.


    Balance

    7 Monks against 2 Demons with a permanent chat and a factional blackmail ability seems biased towards scum, because of the potential confusion created by coordinated scum who can manipulate townies in a quite small game.
    This issue could probably be solved by adding a weak power role to Town, or by adding more Monks. If you choose to add a power role, here is a suggestion.

    Protector : Can protect a player from demon blackmail for the next day. Has two charges that are consumed even if no blackmail was prevented.
    Yeah I'm sort of afraid of it being too scumsided, hence all those restrictions on the blackmail. Last time I used this role, it was used as essentially a second nightkill (which is not what it's designed for). I like the idea of a protector tbh. Call it something like an Exorcist.

  5. ISO #5

    Re: S-FM Faust

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    Thanks for the quick review! A few things first. Originally this setup had only one scum, however I felt that a one-scum game would be quite difficult and maybe not even enjoyable for the town. So I decided to add an extra Demon and a Monk.



    1. Err. Good question. I'm thinking of forcing them to reach a consensus before they submit their night action. Otherwise I'll just turn one Demon into a Godfather-esque role who has the final say on the factional.

    2. It lasts for no more, and no less than a day.

    3. Yes, they can. They're allowed to C/P. But not to quote/SS.

    4. a) No, and good point. It shouldn't be valid because that might make the Blackmail ability a bit too scumsided (it would mean that someone who decides to go against the blackmail wouldn't effectively become confirmed town). b) Yes, that blackmail is totally valid, it does not break any rules and isn't *too* scumsided.

    1. Wildo
    2. I'm planning to do that
    3. Fair point, I'll take you up on this.

    Yeah I'm sort of afraid of it being too scumsided, hence all those restrictions on the blackmail. Last time I used this role, it was used as essentially a second nightkill (which is not what it's designed for). I like the idea of a protector tbh. Call it something like an Exorcist.
    1. Good idea for the Godfather. Hell, you could call it Satanfather... ;)

    2. Good

    3. They can copypaste but not quote? I assume you mean that using the quote feature that says "Originally posted by" is forbidden, am I mistaken here?

    4. Ok, that answers it well. Please add restriction to the setup when you'll edit it


    Suggestions part : Ok ok and ok lol


    I've always been bad for finding good role names. And yes, it should work well now; the Protector will allow for more counterplays without removing the communication-only side of the setup. For the record, I had thought about adding a parity cop, too, but it would have been too strong for town and would have defeated the setup's point IMO.



    Once the setup will have been edited to meet all the things we've discussed, mention me and I'll last check and approve it. @Magoroth
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  6. ISO #6
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM Faust

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    1. Good idea for the Godfather. Hell, you could call it Satanfather... ;)
    1. Ya that's what I'll do. Haha yes, that sounds like something from the Omen lol
    2. Good
    3. They can copypaste but not quote? I assume you mean that using the quote feature that says "Originally posted by" is forbidden, am I mistaken here?
    3. Yep
    4. Ok, that answers it well. Please add restriction to the setup when you'll edit it
    Oh yoinks, I forgot to edit the 1 -scum setup restrictios


    Suggestions part : Ok ok and ok lol


    I've always been bad for finding good role names. And yes, it should work well now; the Protector will allow for more counterplays without removing the communication-only side of the setup. For the record, I had thought about adding a parity cop, too, but it would have been too strong for town and would have defeated the setup's point IMO.



    Once the setup will have been edited to meet all the things we've discussed, mention me and I'll last check and approve it. @Magoroth
    [/QUOTE]
    Sure sure

  7. ISO #7

    Re: S-FM Faust

    Oh, I just realized something. The Exorcist can claim without much fear, since the Demons have no way to kill if the blackmail is respected... I think they should have choice to sacrifice their blackmail to instead check a player to see if they are the Exorcist; if they are, they will die. This way, the Exorcist cannot claim, and the point of the setup without claims is conserved.

    My bad for not realizing that earlier. @Magoroth what do you think about that
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  8. ISO #8
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM Faust

    Fair. Not a bad idea, I’ll implement it

  9. ISO #9

    Re: S-FM Faust

    @Magoroth Friendly reminder that you made this setup, and that it is nearly finished! Please add what we discussed in the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  10. ISO #10

    Re: S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)

    Bump; made you owner of the original post @Oberon
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  11. ISO #11

  12. ISO #12

    Re: S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)

    - It'd be good to specify whether or not the blackmail has to pertain only to the very next day and not to the ones after (which I believe is the case). Same for the Exorcist's protection.

    - The limitations for blackmail in the 1-scum setup are not updated. There's also a missing word making something potentially unclear: "You cannot blackmail someone more than twice in a row."

    - I'd suggest adding an "etc." to the list of "standard FM rules" to cover things up if you intend to have the standard FM rules to be applied here, just so that players aren't confused.

    As a player, I'm really excited to see how that plays out. The blackmailer mechanic is very interesting, it just doesn't fit well with a factional kill in standard-sized setups; this setup doesn't have that issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  13. ISO #13

  14. ISO #14

    Re: S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    done! @Marshmallow Marshall
    if everything else is fine, i'd like to host this soon
    Nice, approved. I'm adding this to the Mini S-FM Queue as a 9P. You may post signups whenever you're ready: you're next.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  15. ISO #15

  16. ISO #16

  17. ISO #17

  18. ISO #18

  19. ISO #19

    Re: S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)

    I'm correct? (Just making sure)
    • Setup is nightless.
    • Demon might not reach the deadline "at the end of the day phase" if majority Lynch early.
    • "one day" is game day / not IRL day.
    • Exorcist can claim immediately without repercussions.
    • Demon could force a player to talk about nothing but cats for a day.
    • In the 1 evil setup, because of Demon needing town to mislynch 3 times but can manipulate a single player 2 days in a row while D2 is the first day someone could be manipulated - the Demon could just himself talk about nothing but cats D2 and D3, leaving Town to just guess and not really "play" himself.


    I personally find that the demons in the 2 evils setup could have not factional power but rather individual due to the ability being (imo) slightly underwhelming.

    Edit: uncool
    Last edited by OzyWho; December 22nd, 2020 at 07:30 AM.

  20. ISO #20

  21. ISO #21

    Re: S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Nope, the demons have a night ability specifically for killing the Exorcist.
    In that case, you made a typo:
    Alternatively, you may forgo your factional ability to check a player at the end of the day. If they are the Exorcist, they will die. You share a day chat with the other demon.
    In mechanics, there's no mention of a night - only day lengths. I think that's an oversight if there's supposed to be a night.
    I see no reason for a night tbh, not even the Demons have a night chat and all actions are to be submitted by the end of the day.

    What you think of the idea allowing the Demons to submit a action pre-game, just so D1 is more interesting? :P

  22. ISO #22

  23. ISO #23

    Re: S-FM Faust (7P or 9P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall I’ve updated the wincons a little. The demons need to reduce the humans’ number to the number of demons + 2 to win.
    I would like to host this.
    That's basically a mislynch possibility down, though. In the 7P, it seems rather fair (two mislynches and a blackmail kill or three mislynches should make town lose especially with only one scum, so that's good), but in the 9P, the same applies (3 town deaths needed), except the scum have something that can be a direct kill (against the Exorcist) + they are two. Thoughts on balance? Note that I'm not straight up opposing it, but that can be discussed.

    Also, this setup is pretty experimental; the prefix didn't exist when it was approved, but now it does, so I'm going to add it.
    @Oberon
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

 

 

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