Register

User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 33 of 33
  1. #21

  2. #22

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    RufusPL’s replies are very defeatist. To summarize his views, it’s “The moderators should work for free as babysitters for the community, but they aren’t any better than the community, so it’s pointless to even try to make things better.”
    This was uncalled for and isn't even the case. I suggest that you stop personally attacking people who only wish to partake in the discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  3. #23

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Why do you believe that an any random which is restricted to town or non neutral killing is balance breaking? It’s a 50-50 to make it 933 or 834. 933 is undeniably town favored. Even 834 favors town if there are zero citizens and max 1 neut killer. I get that some people allow the any random to be a killing role but that’s a separate issue as it’s not the normal 8331 save
    If Any Random actually rolls Neutral Killing instead of Neutral Evil then it's probably less balance breaking. It only speeds up the game which is of course bad but from town perspective it's a lot better to have one more Neutral Killing who will kill everyone, instead of Neutral Evil who has very strong ability and is additional vote for Mafia/Triad or even Neutral Killing. Of course there is a chance that only town roles will get killed but if there would be another Neutral Evil the chance of town losing is a lot higher than that. Any Random is bad because it deciedes game on dice roll. Setups should have handcrafted role setups for every ratio. 933 should have different role setups than 834 to make both of them balance, if it is random they won't work properly. Not even mentioning that Neutral Random is already balance breaking because the difference between Neutral Evil and Benign is too high. In most setups Neutral Slots should be handpicked. I don't think that 933 is favouring town that much, atleast not in public games, maybe if we played with only players above 10k or even 20k points then we could see strong shift towards town wins but that's not the case in public lobbies. There is also so many games that town roles leaves or goes afk, most of the times it will be 833 not 933. Also Neutrals very rarely think about playing for themselfs, they are always very Mafia sided no matter what and that doesn't help Town. But i have no problem with You using 834 (just please don't throw Neutral Random in there) if You think it is better, just use it instead of throwing Any Random that still leaves a chance for 933. It's kind of weird that You claim that 933 is very town favored but You still use the save that gives a chance for that town favored situation to happen.

  4. #24

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    This was uncalled for and isn't even the case. I suggest that you stop personally attacking people who only wish to partake in the discussion.
    I never attacked RufusPL personally. I respect everyone here.
    I countered his replies to my post.
    Magoroth, I suggest you read this Wikipedia page explaining what a personal attack is.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
    RufusPL wrote this:
    You are making a detailed balance thread in the time when most of the players use any random as a legit setup option. Seems pretty pointless to me. […] i believe we should just explain to them what is bad in a setup and why. The only problem is that sc2 mafia staff isn't helping at the moment, they are either using any random setups themselfs or some completely troll and boring setups like putting 10 jesters or 10 killing roles in.
    These parts of replies I quoted explicitly said that the efforts I put into my post to achieve my victory in this thread, the betterment of Mafia’s balance, were futile.
    It rigorously fits the definition of defeatism I link here: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defeatism




    Now, back to the main topic of our discussion.

    Why do you believe that an any random which is restricted to town or non neutral killing is balance breaking? It’s a 50-50
    Regarding the Any Random slot:
    Is it satisfying when the Town wins or not depending mostly on the random attribution of the Any Random slot into a Town, Mafia or Neutral role instead of the actions of the players?
    It’s like playing an online casino but instead of winning or loosing money, you win 20 points, or win 10 points. It’s boring.



    933 is undeniably town favored. Even 834 favors town if there are zero citizens and max 1 neut killer. I get that some people allow the any random to be a killing role but that’s a separate issue as it’s not the normal 8331 save
    I don't believe 9/3/3 is town favoured. 9/3/3 means town barely has the majority at game start. Granted, one of those non-Town is a benign who might be pro-Town, but that's not very common.

    It’s a mistake to say “9 3 3 is Town favoured” or “8 4 3 is Mafia favoured” by itself because it’s an extremely simplistic view that ignores nearly all the parameters that influence the balance of a setup.
    The probabilities of winning of each team isn’t determined only by the amount of players in each team. It is also determined in a huge part by:

    -The randomizers, the role categories in each slot and the roles excluded in each category. Disguisers tend to influence the game more than Blackmailers.

    -The tuning of the roles. For example, a Vigilante that has 3 bullets is likely to have a much bigger impact on the game than a Vigilante with 1 bullet.

    -The length of the day time, discussion time, Trial Length Time, and night time. Longer turns helps the Town by giving more time to discuss and analyze the clues gathered.

    -Whether there is a Death Descriptions, a Night Sequence or a Classic Night. Night Sequence helps the Town by giving a lot of precious information whereas Classic Night keeps the Town in ignorance and my favourite, the Death Description is in between.

    -Whether Last Wills are allowed or not. Allowing last wills helps the Town.

    -Whether PMs are allowed or not. PMs help the Town a lot when a Townie is confirmed and the Townies take advantage of it by PMing the confirmed Townie with all their information.



    If you fully understand how these parameters work, you also realize that some 8 3 4 are easy wins for the Town and some 9 3 3 are a piece of cake for the Mafia.
    Most players don’t understand that.
    That’s why I made this thread, to not only make the game more balanced and meaningful, but also easier to grasp for everyone.
    Last edited by Anderson; August 4th, 2019 at 02:37 PM.

  5. #25

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Can you just stop arguing over me i don't feel attacked or anything so really just end this. I was just misunderstood that i think nothing should be changed because it's pointless. I actually post many propositions lately for balance changes and i think i'm pretty known in the community for caring about balance probably more than i should. All i meant in my first post was that Any Random problem represents that community doesn't care about balance, all they care is "funny" and random things happening so they don't want any changes like you propose. And then i said i also don't agree with your proposed changes anyway and in later posts i tried to explain as good as i can why i think your propositions are wrong. Mainly your propositions limit making other setups than 933/834 and this is not what the save maker was designed for. It was meant to be as flexible as possible so you can create any type of save you would want and it shouldn't be changed by adding too much restrictions

  6. #26

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    You’re right Rufus, I would prefer to run an 834 over 8331 but in the current meta that would get “TROLL HOST REPICK CHOO CHOO” spam and most likely result in some people quitting the game if it doesn’t get repicked.

    Also I would just ignore Anderson as everything about him screams smurf account
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  7. #27

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusPL View Post
    Can you just stop arguing over me i don't feel attacked or anything so really just end this. I was just misunderstood that i think nothing should be changed because it's pointless. I actually post many propositions lately for balance changes and i think i'm pretty known in the community for caring about balance probably more than i should. All i meant in my first post was that Any Random problem represents that community doesn't care about balance, all they care is "funny" and random things happening so they don't want any changes like you propose. And then i said i also don't agree with your proposed changes anyway and in later posts i tried to explain as good as i can why i think your propositions are wrong. Mainly your propositions limit making other setups than 933/834 and this is not what the save maker was designed for. It was meant to be as flexible as possible so you can create any type of save you would want and it shouldn't be changed by adding too much restrictions
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  8. #28

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    You’re right Rufus, I would prefer to run an 834 over 8331 but in the current meta that would get “TROLL HOST REPICK CHOO CHOO” spam and most likely result in some people quitting the game if it doesn’t get repicked.

    Also I would just ignore Anderson as everything about him screams smurf account
    objectively, a 10/4 with one Judge is the best mafia experience.
    thankfully that doesn't get repicked as often
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  9. #29

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    objectively, a 10/4 with one Judge is the best mafia experience.
    thankfully that doesn't get repicked as often
    This is basically Town vs Mafia. The Judge is essentially a fifth Mafia member who doesn't know the other mafiosi's (idk how to spell that) identities
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  10. #30

  11. #31

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    There's a lot in this thread and surprisingly for this forum a bunch of very good discussion which I appreciate. While I'm not gonna touch on many specific points at this stage because we're mostly polishing 2.0 now there's a few things in this thread we are actively chatting about for a little down the line when the updates aren't going to be so colossal it takes months to put together (mini patches with reworks or updates). Frinckles' option for the cult leader in this update is meant as a bandaid stopgap for the minute. It is likely we will revisit the idea that cult will get its own faction and randomiser later down the line to remove it from neut evil but it's a much harder task than it sounds because of how the generator is coded -- there's no way we're gonna risk that kind of a change with all the other changes going on.

    It is unlikely we will remove too many options despite the fact in some cases it does overtune roles. Battle.net is a Wild place and not every game is going to be super competitively balanced and that's okay. What I can tell you is that when we remake the preset variants (not custom) which I think will be in 2.0 they will be very carefully option balanced.

    Id like to touch on more specific points but Until 2.0 drops it's probably not going to change much - I exepect the meta to be shaken up dramatically and not really settle for a couple of weeks at which point we can revisit if anything is overperforming (looking at you elector) or people are role quitting and make adjustments. We will need time to evaluate how the meta adapts before making knee jerk quick fixes.
    Photobucket in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    if you have elixir to contend with gl hf

  12. #32

  13. #33

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    A realignment tweak I want to bring up is to move Veteran to the government role.

    If Crier the useless piece of shit who cries at night,
    and Citizen the useless piece of shit who does nothing but vote and discuss like any other townie are Town Government roles,

    Then I don't see a reason why the Veteran,
    who at the cost of one unfortunate townie with a last will selling him out on night 1
    can initiate a role call just the way a mayor or marshall could (much more easily than crier in comparison I must add)
    can be a Town Government role.

    although it seems weird considering the veteran's initially chaotic nature, but the meta will shape out his initial chaos into governmental authority i guess.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •