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Thread: Spy

  1. #1

    Spy

    tl:dr Make ability to read mafia night chat an option not a defualt.

    I really like Spy, if he can see what targets mafia visited he can easly guess what roles they have and then he can lynch them if they won't change targets they visited in their claims. Also he completely counters disguiser. But what makes this role bad for the game is his ability to read mafia night chat. I understand why would you let him do this but it just shaped the meta in which mafia literally won't communicate a thing on night chat because they are scarred of being exposed. Not even mentioning coordinating any complicated manouvers which would expose them completely if Spy saw that. So at the moment night chat is completely useless for mafia, sometimes some consigliere or agent will say what they found but that's it. It really takes away very interesting aspect of coordinating for mafia like setting up what claims they should make to support eachother (amount of times when agent lw gives out other mafia is ridiculous) or preparing a way to direct lynch on someone. If there is atleast 20% chance that there is a Spy who can read everything they say it's understandable they won't risk doing it because then Spy would just expose whole Mafia day 2-day 3. So to not make any big revolution i'm not asking to remove this ability completely, just make a switch for hosts so we could try how game will work without it.

  2. #2

    Re: Spy

    I think the ability to toggle on/off the ability for spy to see night chat is MUCH better balancing option than the current can't see target roles option. Cause playing a spy that only sees kills is useless 9 times out of ten, but THIS option sounds awesome to me
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  3. #3

    Re: Spy

    TLDR; I agree.

    As per that other thread, it's one of the options that was brought forward to possible be removed from the game entirely.

    • It's an ability that dissuades Mafia from communicating at night, ironically lowering the overall usefulness of itself.
    • It de-values Mafia night chat significantly, almost to being pointless. The Mafia's ability to communicate with each-other to do more advanced shenanigans is almost always too risky; Spies are common given the amount of randomness in general setups. You can't reliably coordinate with other Mafia members on stuff related to votes (e,g. on who to bandwagon the next day.)
    • Being able to see who the Mafia visits/kills is already a ton of information, usually enough for a skilled one to deduce things few roles can while not being confirm-able. "Wow, that Sheriff-claim keeps going where the Mafia goes, I wonder if he's Consig."


    Obviously I'd like to replace it with something though I'm not sure what. The idea that a Spy could survive once (or start bleeding out) after an attack because he had intel sounds interesting. Could coincide with Godfather's claiming spy if they're night immune as well. Not big on Town Of Salem's Spy abilities, but it's worth mentioning they replaced Spy hearing Mafia at night for similar reasons.

    Just general thoughts.
    Last edited by Frinckles; July 23rd, 2019 at 12:38 PM.

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  6. #6

    Re: Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    How about a multi-faction spy that can read PMs instead
    Wasn't really there for it, admittedly. But the old spy was apparently not so much fun. @Elixir maybe able to chime in more.

    I also don't have any intentions of balancing around PM's, whether they're included in a save or not.

  7. #7

  8. #8

    Re: Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    fair. it would be difficult to balance either way tbh
    That's not to say there can't be another communication-related replacement, but PM's aren't it. That's why I was opting for something that directly interacts with the Mafia like surviving an attack.. Perhaps if they're jailed they will be told it's a kidnapper right off the bat and may try to claim survivor or amnesiac etc.. Just something to give them a little bit of edge/advantage against the Mafia they're tracking.

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