{Watch List} cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700
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  1. ISO #1

    cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    Account Name:
    Account ID:
    cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    In-Game Name:
    cmcwai: Sergio
    Tayl: 2. intaro

    Crimes Committed:
    cmcwai: bank hacking + color chat abuse
    tayl: color chat abuse

    Your Account Name: aamirus

    Summary:
    cmcwai is crier. During the night he alternates between normal text and blue colored text to make it seem like there is a crier and judge in the game.

    tayl is bus driver. During the days he uses colored text that looks the same as what cmcwai was saying at night to try to convince people that he is the judge (presumably so he can then use his bus driving abilities to redirect vig shots to whoever he wants).

    Crime: Colour Chat Abuse
    This is using colour coding to highlight your in-game text to manipulate the game.
    Examples: Revealing as fake Mayor; highlighting text during court.
    Type: Additional Crimes

    Both players used the color chat to manipulate the game to their advantage.


    cmcwai has the following stats:
    30127 points, 1397 victories, 2596 games played.
    He also has the achievements Generosity and Philanthropy but not Altruism.

    For comparison here are my stats:
    25441 points, 754 victories, 1386 games played.
    Without any donor achievements.

    With twice as many games and wins, and having those donor achievements, to have only 5k more points seems way off.


    Also, the really obvious thing sticking out is that cmcwai has the MVP achievement, which is only obtainable by being awarded it normally. And I see no record of this person being awarded it.

    Not to mention, in this report from May 1st:
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...hlight=8667081

    Cmcwai only has 1268 points, 23 victories, and 35 games played. Clear and obvious case of bank-hacking all considered.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

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  5. ISO #5

    Re: cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    SC ID VERIFICATION
    Tayl:1-S2-1-9933700
    Cmc:1-S2-1-8667081


    Players Added to Report


    Respective Hotkeys
    Tayl: ctrl +1
    Cmc: 3



    Previous Offenses
    Tayl: On-hold Greifing. The rest of his reports are ignored.

    Cmc: Intentional-gamethrowing with a WL x3


    Game:
    Cmc is crier, Tayl is busdriver.

    Night 1:
    Cmc try to make it sound that there are both crier and judge. near the end of the night he uses the blue text.

    Day 2: Tayl immediately types the exact same message Cmc typed with the same colors. This put them both under Chat abuse.

    Tayl does indeed tricks vigilante into shooting him and then switching himself. The gf is found this way but Tayl is lynched anyway for acting like a judge.


    For the bank part:
    Cmc has 30127 points, 1397 victories, 2596 games played
    He has the following achievements of note:

    MVP, Generosity, Philantrohy. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but MVP appears only for winners of the MVP contest, and I can't find any record of this.
    I honestly don't know much about the donor achievements, but Cmc is not recognized as anything at the start of the game.



    Was the Game Result altered?
    Irrelevant


    Player Offenses
    Tayl: Chat Abuse
    Cmc: Chat Abuse + Bank Hacking

    Recommended Action
    Tayl: Watchlist x2 ( or x4) with the appropriate warning at the start of the game. Tayl is usually not as guilty as this, and I'm hoping his clean record doesn't keep building up.

    Cmc: Point-Ban. Seems appropriate with both offense being point related.
    I have no use for these bloodless minnows. Bring me a prey that will sate my bloodlust. I hunger.

  6. ISO #6

  7. ISO #7

    Re: cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    Hi, I'm Tayl and would like to appeal the decision that was made in this case regarding my actions. Three points bother me :
    - The game and the effect of my behaviour on it
    - The wording on the rules and the behaviour of Mafia players
    - The actions taken on this kind of case

    - Regarding the game itself, my actions had two possible outcomes : Me being called out as the Judge, which would seem the most obvious to a non-experienced player, or me being called out as a Jester, this kind of mistake seeming too obvious to be made since the delay between night & day chat is too long for this to happen accidentally out of sheer spam. I'm sure the Jester argument isn't too far fetched for any experienced player here, in fact 11 called me out as a Jester instantly.
    My role, Bus Driver, is also one of the easiest to confirm because anyone affected by my actions will know i'm telling the truth. Unfortunately it backfired, 1 ended up dying right away and couldn't confirm my claims, and 5 turned out to be evil so denied it, and I ended up getting lynched, being given no chance to prove myself for one more night. Surprisingly, after my death, 5's alignment was clear, but nothing was made out of it by the town. Granted, I might have misplayed by switching myself N1, switching two other people giving me more room to get myself confirmed instead.
    I didn't do this in order to get shot at night, being unaware of the presence of a vigilante by D2 other than an irrelevant "vigi shoot him" claim made by someone, hardly confirming its presence.

    Either interpretation of my actions, being the one of a Jester, or the one of a Judge, left me suspicious and therefor unlikely to get shot by the Mafia or attacked by a Neutral Killer. I'm sure you've seen similar actions done before during play by someone pretending to be Jester or Survivor, Neutral, or acting really scummy in general in order not to get shot at night (i'd argue it's not really a wise claim though, as you more often than not end up getting lynched during the day unless you're able to prove your innocence)

    - Regarding the wording of the rules on this particular "crime", the behaviour or Mafia players:
    Crime: Colour Chat Abuse
    This is using colour coding to highlight your in-game text to manipulate the game.
    Examples: Revealing as fake Mayor; highlighting text during court.
    Type: Additional Crimes
    The two examples provided by the rules are ones that intend to be imitating system messages or bypassing limitations enforced by the games during certain situations : i.e. faking a gov role reveal, faking private messages (that's not mentioned here, but typing a message in all green displays the same as getting whispered, minus the rather discrete *X is whispering Y* notification, distinguishing yourself during court chat in order to prove you're the one speaking, judge & crier being obvious excluded from this (i'm pretty sure this has been fixed by now), and any other I missed.
    Nowhere is there mention of pretending to imitate who willingly submitted colored message being a crime. "Using color coding to highlight your in game text to manipulate the game" is also way too broad of a rule that cannot be enforced fairly, as any colored text will automatically highlight a player's message and give it more importance than any other message displayed, just like MESSAGES IN ALL CAPS do.
    People use color text to spam, to fuck around, to try & give some validation to their messages when arguing (colored messages usually stand out in a wall of text where 5+ messages a second get posted). They also use it to explicitly distinguish themselves in ways that should be prevented : A recurring example, one that fortunately for me happened in this very game, is a Judge & a Crier in the same game. One has colored chat, one doesn't, and the Judge can distinguish himself quite easily. In the Crier's N3 words : "You have colored text. It's unfair". Yet I don't see whoever was Judge that game being punished, and rightfully so. This has occurred so many times in the past, trying to ban everyone who's ever done this would be pointless, the flaw lies in the existence of colored chat itself. If this kind of action is punishable, please explicitly state so in the rules, instead of giving very specific examples that would lead one to think what's bannable is the impersonation of admin and system messages, but giving a very broad definition of the crime itself that can be interpreted in many ways, such as in this case.

    - Regarding the action taken on this kind of case:
    This will be pretty quick, there are none. I've browsed the last three pages of report, and filtered posts by keywords such a "chat abuse", "color chat", etc. and found no precedent similar cases where players were punished for text abuses, except an old one where HTML code was still usable in the in-game chat and the accused was posting images, which is totally irrelevant to this case. And if were to find such punished users, I'm sure they would be related to in-game impersonation of admins or system messages rather than merely imitating someone else. I find it quite unfair to be the only player punished for this in the 7+ years of existence of the rules (I am aware that a portion of forum posts dating many years were purged, but i'm sure the available data is large enough to be considered relevant), and I am certain I am not the only one having thought of, and executed, this truly exceptional and unique idea that has never been done before.


    I am a regular Mafia player and even though the way I play may not be liked or understood by some, simply watching any replay in which I appear as town from my point of view proves my implication in every game. My votes and actions are reflected upon, even though they may sometimes appear reckless. I'm challenging anyone accusing me of griefing or game-throwing to prove it, as I can discuss and justify my votes, actions and trains of thought during most games. As MrMostache asserted, I have a clean record, and I intend to keep it that way.

    In any case, whether my punishment is lifted or not, please address the point I've made regarding the rules and update them accordingly, as this specific rule is way too broad and open to interpretation

  8. ISO #8

    Re: cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    Your appeal has been noted. A supermod will review your appeal in due time.

    Your usage of colored text did "manipulate" the game (whether for the good of the town or not) which is where the issue came from.
    Last edited by MrMostache; July 1st, 2019 at 06:25 PM.
    I have no use for these bloodless minnows. Bring me a prey that will sate my bloodlust. I hunger.

  9. ISO #9

    Re: cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    After reviewing the replay @Tayl I agree with Mostache's verdict of you committing coloured chat abuse.

    There was no Judge in this game. All Crier/Judge chat was done by one person who was the Crier, and he was punished in this thread with a point ban. The Crier's 'claim' of it being unfair that a person can use coloured chat to confirm themselves is the very essence of why we don't allow coloured chat to be used in such a way.

    I also personally disagree that the description is too broad. All you have to do is think "does my use of coloured chat manipulate the game?". In your case where you are pretending to confirm yourself as Judge/Crier, yes you did manipulate the game and you being lynched for it is clear evidence of you manipulating the game with coloured chat.
    Last edited by rumox; July 19th, 2019 at 01:49 AM.

  10. ISO #10

    Re: cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    I didn't notice there wasn't a Judge, i went to other occupations after being lynched, my bad on this.

    However, I disagree, for what it's worth, with the decision and interpretation of what happened, and this decision : If the night time spam wasn't made in colored text, me spamming what was said by the "Judge" would've most likely had the same outcome on my trial and the decision of getting me lynched, as people would've assumed I was judge, or jester, regardless. I highly doubt the message being in red color is what triggered me getting lynched, I merely imitated what was said at night, the color of it is irrelevant. You could say it is relevant by saying the red color was an indicator of the "Judge" speaking, but simply typing his text like "[JUDGE] LYNCH EVENS" or something similar would've had the same exact effect

    Also, after browsing the entire report & punishment history this time, i couldn't find a single case of chat abuse "offense". I think a warning and clarification on the rules would be more appropriate than being punished for it right away. I have also never seen anyone complaining this kind of action being prohibited, despite it being unfair. Surely, with a mod in the game, Cmc and I could've received a direct in-game warning than going straight away for our throats on the forums ? And as stated previously, i'm certain that any of you who's been playing this game for a long enough time has seen a Crier & Judge in the same game with one of them using colored text, yet noone was reported and punished for this ? And in this game, i was nothing but a mere copycat of the guy responsible of the "offense" in the first place.

    Finally, as I stated before, why is colored chat even possible in the first place? Nothing good can come out of it. At best, using it is game manipulation in itself by pushing your message forward and giving it more attention than it would otherwise get being in white colors. And even if it's considered to be fair to use during the day, why not disable it for the Criers & Judge at night, just like it is disabled during courts, so this whole mess could be avoided ?

  11. ISO #11

    Re: cmcwai: 1-S2-1-8667081 Tayl: 1-S2-1-9933700

    Watchlist is our warning It doesn't do anything but provide a warning for players pre-game that what they did is not ok. If we were to go straight to a ban listing then yeah I'd agree that it would be over stepping in regards to this situation.

    I'm not familiar with how limiting coloured text for different segments of the game would work, I can pass that on to our developer and see what is possible. AFAIK we tried a chat limiter function in the past for a certain segment of the game that didn't quite work out. Also our moderation philosophy has always been to report a game and not take direct action during game play. They could have had a word with you post game, but what you did is against our rules so making a report is a valid course of action.

    There isn't anything wrong with using coloured chat but it's how you use it that is the important distinction.

 

 

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