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  1. #1

    Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    One of the most important parts of a game about survival is the ability to protect yourself and your team, even if you can never be sure who your team mates are. In our first new role discussion for the first major Mafia update I'm excited to be able to chat to R&D about two new protective roles we're working on which have both featured prominently in Forum Mafias for quite some time.

    Please note this is still iterative and is not final. We're still working out the options and doing analysis on shifts to the meta/balance. Any role that we present could still be cut before we lock down update 1.

    I have also included a small rationale behind what the role is meant to accomplish and the kinds of strategy they are meant to adopt.



    -Enchantress -- Town Protective

    Actions: Attract a target to target you and repel a target away from you.
    Options:



    1. 3 spells allowed (Default: OFF)
    2. Knows if Repel Target Visited (Default: OFF)
    3. Lure victim knows he is controlled (Default: ON)
    4. Repel Targets Self Target (Default: OFF)


    Rationale: This role has been present in Forum Mafia as an advanced protective role that can manipulate multiple targets at once. Correct play will allow the Enchantress to bait and take the hit of lesser mafia roles such as consorts and blackmailers allowing town investigatives more time to find the scum while at the same time protecting themself from harm if they manage to repel an attack. A Lure target with the option on (option 3) will see themselves being controlled with the same feedback as if a witch controlled them. This also gives witches a much easier role to bluff when attempting to escape lynching.

    Currently, A repel target will see themselves as being role blocked with the same message as an escort/consort unless the 4th option is enabled in which case they will inadvertently target themselves with their action and will not be informed their target changed. If this doesnt feel right in testing we may update the repel text to be unique, as it requires the target in question to actually target the enchantress while lure is 100% a witch like action.

    If the option is enabled, the Enchantress will receive information their repel was successful "XXX attempted to visit you tonight but was warded off by your spell". Conversely, a poorly played enchantress will lure town roles to them and waste precious night actions from the town. If no limit option is selected, the Enchantress has limitless charges.

    Additionally, we would be probably force an option failure if witches "target knows if controlled" is off and "lure victim knows he is controlled" is on which could cause a situation where Enchantresses would be able to self confirm, or bake them together into one option on one of the roles.

    And as a final tease... there might be some interactions if witches and enchantresses start targeting each other.

    -Armorsmith-- Town Protective

    Actions: Give a vest to a target, allowing them to activate it for immunity for that night.
    Options:



    1. 3 armors forges (Default: ON)
    2. 4 armors forges (Default: OFF)
    3. 1 night between forges (Default: OFF)
    4. Can target self (Default: OFF)


    Rationale: Thanks to improvements to the editor in Legacy of the Void, new UI elements are able to be generated alongside our current ones which allows us to finally implement this role which was not possible before. (The same tech has allowed us to make a nice update to jailor as well which will give them jailing buttons rather than having to type -jail!). This role can hand out the same vests that citizens and survivors get as standard to any role which then puts the onus of protection on them - and allows them to choose when they think they will be attacked. They can use the vest alongside their normal role action by an extra button that appears.

    Currently because its one charge and its up to the recipient to decide when to use it, we currently don't think it unreasonable to allow vests to be given to government roles. Don't give armor to scum! If no limit option is selected, the armorsmith will be limited to 2 charges.

    The strategy to the armorsmith will be to decide whether or not the loud people in town will be targeted, and if they're worth one of your precious charges. -- If you give them a vest on the night they die its also wasted so you have to plan accordingly.

    -----------------

    We hope to diversify the protective game with a few more options around what kinds of protectives there are. -
    We are also considering moving Bus Driver to only Town Power and Escort out of protective and into the new Town Support category to streamline save setups where you want to ensure the protective slot is doing protecting (having both BD and Ench in prot for example gives too high a chance of just misdirection protection rather than straight protection).
    Last edited by Elixir; May 31st, 2019 at 07:38 AM.
    Photobucket in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    if you have elixir to contend with gl hf

  2. #2

  3. #3

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Would it be possible to add setup options to disable or enable extra categories for certain roles? I'm sure just removing prot from bus drivers would break a lot of setups. Having the option to decide between it being prot or prot/power on the other hand would actually add extra freedom to hosts without breaking anything.
    You'd probably still get a shitstorm for any option that isn't meta, but that'd happen either way.

  4. #4

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    Would it be possible to add setup options to disable or enable extra categories for certain roles? I'm sure just removing prot from bus drivers would break a lot of setups. Having the option to decide between it being prot or prot/power on the other hand would actually add extra freedom to hosts without breaking anything.
    You'd probably still get a shitstorm for any option that isn't meta, but that'd happen either way.
    Its not possible to make the categories modular. The arrays need to be set up in a way for the randomiser to check for each numbered role (it was one of the major obstacles frinckles needed to overcome to start actually coding roles) Our best workaround was the option for each random to exclude each particular role but some are at capacity
    Photobucket in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    if you have elixir to contend with gl hf

  5. #5

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    Would it be possible to add setup options to disable or enable extra categories for certain roles? I'm sure just removing prot from bus drivers would break a lot of setups. Having the option to decide between it being prot or prot/power on the other hand would actually add extra freedom to hosts without breaking anything.
    You'd probably still get a shitstorm for any option that isn't meta, but that'd happen either way.
    Removing what category the role is in won't break anything. Also, balancing stuff becomes way harder when you have to account for things like that; It could be argued there are too many options available and not enough content.
    Last edited by Frinckles; May 31st, 2019 at 05:59 PM.

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Damus_Graves View Post
    Which role has priority targeting between Witch and Enchantress?

    Witch targets A, An escort onto B, a sheriff
    Enchantress lures A, the escort onto them

    example scenario
    Neutrals always get priority but the target would be notified twice
    Photobucket in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    if you have elixir to contend with gl hf

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  11. #11

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Its not possible to make the categories modular. The arrays need to be set up in a way for the randomiser to check for each numbered role (it was one of the major obstacles frinckles needed to overcome to start actually coding roles) Our best workaround was the option for each random to exclude each particular role but some are at capacity
    what if you added more categories? Instead of just town protective you could have:

    Town Protective-Only: This would only include protective roles that are ONLY listed as protective.

    Town Protective-Any: This would be the same as how it currently works with all roles that have protective being possible


    Or you could have Town Protective A, Town Protective B, Town Protective C and give each of them the same list of options that let you exclude roles. I mean, having already added Town Support, is there a limitation on just adding more categories?
    Last edited by aamirus; June 10th, 2019 at 01:33 AM.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  12. #12

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    One problem I thought of with armorsmiths is that it is too confirmable. Unlike a doc which needs to actually heal to get confirmed, the armorsmith can give a vest to anybody who doesn't die that night and then they are confirmed town.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  13. #13

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    I’m not sure it’s in the Armorsmiths best interest to instantly self confirm.
    I would foresee Armorsmith saying one or two of their targets, who would then confirm receiving the vest, and only then being verified as legit.

    I feel this role is best played on the low.
    It definitely is confirmable but it takes nearly as much effort as a doc confirming self

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  15. #15

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Damus_Graves View Post
    I’m not sure it’s in the Armorsmiths best interest to instantly self confirm.
    I would foresee Armorsmith saying one or two of their targets, who would then confirm receiving the vest, and only then being verified as legit.

    I feel this role is best played on the low.
    It definitely is confirmable but it takes nearly as much effort as a doc confirming self
    not to a gov with pms
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

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  17. #17

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    I think you're both mostly correct. Armorsmith (similarly to Fruit Vendor) can get confirmed relatively quickly if the Town Government is able to compare last wills. If we're in a scenario where Mayor / Marshall cannot receive PM's (or they're disabled entirely) it probably wouldn't be optimal play until you're about to be lynched. I understand the context of why it was brought up, but we should try to focus conversation about whether we're for or opposed to the PM metagame in the other thread particularly because it's a tricky topic.

    On multiple Armorsmiths being appearing: I don't think it would be that overbearing.. The effective protection given by a bulletproof vest is contingent on if a player uses it at the correct time, and if it isn't given to scum so I see a lot of opportunity for misplays etc. Enchantress though - despite it being one of my favorite new roles - makes me cautious about how multiples will effect the game. It shouldn't have nearly as much negative utility for the town as multiple bus-drivers though.
    Last edited by Frinckles; June 10th, 2019 at 08:50 AM.

  18. #18

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Is a mafia/triad armorsmith planned as well? Otherwise, as long as there'd be no mafia armorsmith, the role would be 100% confirmable simply by people confirming they received a vest. Then you could have up to 4 confirmed town protective roles and a solved game where the mafia has no chance of winning.
    Especially considering it's an actual protective role that grants immunity I see a problem there. You really wouldn't want 2 or even more confirmed townies grant immunity to each other.

  19. #19

  20. #20

    Re: Discussion 2: A Parlor of Protection

    Having said that, I don't like the role. Any kind of scum role that would prevent the armorsmith from becoming an immunity giving confirmed town gov wouldn't make sense. Why would the mafia ever want to give an unknown townie immunity after all?
    And if you were to make vests invisible it'd just be no different from a doctor heal.

 

 

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