FM Moving Forward
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  1. #1

    FM Moving Forward

    This has been a super fun time guys!!! Real blast the last 24 hours, I'm sure everyone can agree.

    Anyway, let's move forward together, and work through this together.


    It's evident that the FM section is in need of some sweet sweet love, as it's been left without proper oversight since the departure a section head.


    So, my question to you is:
    What is YOUR FM utopia as a host?




    I'll go first. Over my years as FM player, host, FM mod, and admin of the section, there were many things that I found just didn't work at all. Mainly, the queue.
    When I first joined the site, there was no queue. It was chaotic, but it had an ease to it. At times it was highly disorganized, and eventually hosts spoke up about fair hosting practices.
    The queue was then created to give everyone a fair chance at hosting. However, this also had repercussions. Long wait times for hosts, and long lines of games no one wanted to play. Sure, it was civil, but FM became monotonous on the site.

    After experiencing both of these systems (and some rogue systems that we won't talk about shh), I came to envision MY perfect system as an FM host:
    Capitalism. Sweet, ruthless capitalism.

    My idea was that anyone with experience hosting would be allowed to post signups for ANY approved game (even if it's not your setup). If your sign ups fill because members wanted to play the game, or because you're a kick ass host... the signups would fill up, and the host can start their game.
    Members wanting new setups approved would create a setup as usual, and one of the (hopefully several) FM mods/FM community liaisons would look them over and review them. Once everything looked good, there would be another approved setup on the books! If the game runs and proves to be incredibly imbalanced, it would be unapproved after the game.

    So, whenever I've hinted at this idea, I have heard things like "omg crypt, what is someone spends a lot of time on a setup and no one plays it?". And my answer to that question is, "have you ever known me to have feelies?" This is where I compare it to capitalism; if members don't want to buy your product, then your setup will not move forward.


    Obviously, there would need to be FM mod oversight in this process. Rules, such as:
    1- only signing for X number of games at time.
    2- signups can only be up for X number of days before being archived and needed to be posted again.
    3- probably lots of other shit i'm over looking.


    Anyway, that's MY Utopia. What's yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  2. #2

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    A watehouse of approved setups that have been ran and successfully competed. Open to the public for replayability. Hosts can pick a setup they like and put up signups after confirming with FMmod that they are good to go
    Think Librarian style operations here.

    ——

    A workshop where hosts and players can theorycraft new setups, mechanics, roles as they please. A FMmod would check a suggest setup/role to ensure it meets a criteria that had been preestablished. Rolecards being clear and precise, feeeback listed, cycles and their times explained, expected codes of conduct within the game as examples of the criteria needed.

    ——

    I am hopeful for multiple games to be able to run ran at the same time. There is a problem with overlapping games but I believe that this issue is something that the hosts themselves need to be responsible for
    Last edited by Damus_Graves; January 5th, 2019 at 03:29 PM.

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    I believe capitalism is a great idea. There have been instances in which I didn't like the current setup and just had to wait for it to be over. With capitalism, I could choose from a variety of setups and wouldn't have to wait. UNLESS we don't have a enough big playerbase. That would be one of the issues.

    We need more people if we choose capitalism.


    Thank you Anonymous Donor

  5. #5

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    Less restrictions (if there are) on what mechanics, roles, etc are in a game. But on the flip side, some way to indicate that this setup is experimental, and some way for FMods to indicate how balanced they think a particular setup will turn out. Maybe engaging in that pregame meta will help with balance.

    (Don't take my opinion here too heavily. I only play the wildest and biggest of games).

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  6. #6

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    So to reiterate the issues with the current FM system, the main problem that I have is that only one FM is getting hosted at a time and the order that the FMs are being hosted in essentially ends up being a first-in-first-out queue. This results in the following...


    1) If a player dies early in an FM, they still have to wait for the conclusion of that FM before they can join another FM.
    2) If a player doesn't like the setup which is next in the queue, they are either forced to sign up anyway or wait for the next FM which can take a couple of weeks. This gets even worse if there are multiple setups in a row in the queue that players do not like.
    3) If a player has high activity and could easily participate in multiple FMs, they are still forced to only participate in one.


    While I do also recognize/remember the issues that came from a lack of mod oversight, this would be what I see as the ideal changes to the system...


    1) While FM mods give appropriate feedback to setups, as long as the setup is complete, they always approve the setup, even though they can delay signups if there are already multiple ongoing games/signups. This feeds into the "capitalism" idea that it is ultimately the players (buyers) who determine what gets hosted, not the mods (government).
    2) Two FMs can be hosted simultaneously. This doubles the potential number of FMs that can be hosted at a time, while not completely scrapping the queue and creating issues where there are too many FMs being hosted at a single time.
    3) Once a setup goes into the signup phase, if it does not get an appropriate number of signers within a given amount of time, it is removed from signups and replaced by the next FM in queue (again, the players are determining what ultimately gets hosted).
    4) While hosts are encouraged to increase the length of their day/night cycles if they have players playing in multiple simultaneous FMs to give those players more time to fully participate in both FMs, it is ultimately the decision of the host on how long/short they want their days/nights to be (within reason).
    5) Likewise, if multiple FMs are going simultaneously, some effort is made to stagger them so that when one of the games is in night phase, the other is in day phase.
    6) Mods reserve the right to have only one active FM for a period of time, such as if a major FM is getting hosted where maximum community participation is encouraged.
    7) If a major FM/event is going to be hosted, multiple people are allowed to give setups for that FM/event. If multiple setups are given, a community poll is created for which one will be hosted.


    I think these are my major points, but I'll add to this if I think I missed something.

  7. #7

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    I'm actually surprised people agree Last time I said something like this, it wasn't received very well lol.
    @Firebringer sparked the idea a long time ago rip fb


    I also want to add that, as a player, I wish something could be done about number of posts in games lol. I am definitely guilty for posting a lot myself, but now that i'm busier in life I have come to realize that behavior definitely has a negative effect on a game lol. I'll wake up to like 600 posts and it's like shit there is no way i have time to read all of this lol. I think it would be a lot better there were fewer, but more extensive, posts.

    I'm not entirely sure what exactly can be done to reduce quantity & increase quality of posts. Does anyone else experience this, or am I in the minority? lol

    Some things I've considered are like....
    - prevent double posting via a plugin. Issue with this is that someone can make 2 quality posts in a row, so this is more like a band-aid.
    - set minimum character count to like X characters (maybe 3 sentences or so). This idea I do actually like.. However, if you forget to vote or you misspell your vote, then you can't follow up with just a vote. (Unless we got a new vote system, too).

    Or, maybe there is no problem lol It's hard being old
    Last edited by Cryptonic; January 5th, 2019 at 08:17 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  8. #8

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    I'm actually surprised people agree Last time I said something like this, it wasn't received very well lol.
    @Firebringer sparked the idea a long time ago rip fb


    I also want to add that, as a player, I wish something could be done about number of posts in games lol. I am definitely guilty for posting a lot myself, but now that i'm busier in life I have come to realize that behavior definitely has a negative effect on a game lol. I'll wake up to like 600 posts and it's like shit there is no way i have time to read all of this lol. I think it would be a lot better there were fewer, but more extensive, posts.

    I'm not entirely sure what exactly can be done to reduce quantity & increase quality of posts. Does anyone else experience this, or am I in the minority? lol

    Some things I've considered are like....
    - prevent double posting via a plugin. Issue with this is that someone can make 2 quality posts in a row, so this is more like a band-aid.
    - set minimum post count to like X characters (maybe 3 sentences or so). This idea I do actually like.. However, if you forget to vote or you misspell your vote, then you can't follow up with just a vote. (Unless we got a new vote system, too).

    Or, maybe there is no problem lol It's hard being old
    I agree that some players spam harder then they should in FMs and that a focus on higher post quality over post count would be good for FMs. However, you can't really force players to make high quality posts, you can only encourage.

    I'm not sure I agree if with disabling the ability to post twice in a row. Sometimes you make a post and realize that you missed something important which needs to be amended. Also, if players are ever in a final 3 situation, only being able to make 1 post before having to wait for another player to post can suck. I think hosts just have to more heavily enforce anti-spam rules if they don't want players making 15 consecutive posts on day 1 ( @Slaol @Mike ).

    If you really wanted to force a change in posting styles in FMs, the solution I see would be to set a maximum number of posts players can make in a 24 hour period, then increase the length of days to compensate the decrease in post count. This isn't to say that forcing this change SHOULD become standard, just that I believe this to be the best way if there is a desire to do so.

  9. #9

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    I'm actually surprised people agree Last time I said something like this, it wasn't received very well lol.
    @Firebringer sparked the idea a long time ago rip fb


    I also want to add that, as a player, I wish something could be done about number of posts in games lol. I am definitely guilty for posting a lot myself, but now that i'm busier in life I have come to realize that behavior definitely has a negative effect on a game lol. I'll wake up to like 600 posts and it's like shit there is no way i have time to read all of this lol. I think it would be a lot better there were fewer, but more extensive, posts.

    I'm not entirely sure what exactly can be done to reduce quantity & increase quality of posts. Does anyone else experience this, or am I in the minority? lol

    Some things I've considered are like....
    - prevent double posting via a plugin. Issue with this is that someone can make 2 quality posts in a row, so this is more like a band-aid.
    - set minimum character count to like X characters (maybe 3 sentences or so). This idea I do actually like.. However, if you forget to vote or you misspell your vote, then you can't follow up with just a vote. (Unless we got a new vote system, too).

    Or, maybe there is no problem lol It's hard being old
    Quote Originally Posted by Auckmid View Post
    I agree that some players spam harder then they should in FMs and that a focus on higher post quality over post count would be good for FMs. However, you can't really force players to make high quality posts, you can only encourage.

    I'm not sure I agree if with disabling the ability to post twice in a row. Sometimes you make a post and realize that you missed something important which needs to be amended. Also, if players are ever in a final 3 situation, only being able to make 1 post before having to wait for another player to post can suck. I think hosts just have to more heavily enforce anti-spam rules if they don't want players making 15 consecutive posts on day 1 ( @Slaol @Mike ).

    If you really wanted to force a change in posting styles in FMs, the solution I see would be to set a maximum number of posts players can make in a 24 hour period, then increase the length of days to compensate the decrease in post count. This isn't to say that forcing this change SHOULD become standard, just that I believe this to be the best way if there is a desire to do so.
    I have actually been telling Slaol recently about how I was thinking about hosting a game with a posting restriction in an effort to combat this issue. I haven't landed on the exact restriction yet. I was thinking along the lines of 'X posts per 24-hour period', but I'm open to other ideas.

  10. #10

  11. #11

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    I can only find a plugin for that which works up to 4.2.2, and we 4.2.5 :'(
    nvm found one http://vbulletin-mods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2026

    edit: nvm x2, looks like it works opposite what you're suggesting lol

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  12. #12

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    I'd definitely get behind a post count limit. Maybe per 24 hours. Maybe per hour. I'd sign up for one of these if that was the main advertisement. Or maybe I'll just host it myself.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    I'm all for players hosting games however they want to host games. They want to have a post count limit sure... you want to have a a word count per post limit sure.... incorporate that into your setup. If a player doesn't want to be restricted by post count or Limited 2 posting in a certain way then they don't have to sign for the game. Personally I think that a player should be able to play however he likes to play if he likes to type short sentences very frequently then he should be able to do that if it's within the rules of the setup. Because it's up to the other players to read said player at that point. So all in all if you want to host a set up in a certain way. Then do it if people don't sign for your game don't throw a fit and cry about it. Sorry if this comes off a bit harsh but it's just my thoughts on the matter.
    This isn't where i parked my car.....

  15. #15

  16. #16

  17. #17

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    Capitalism is a good idea for large playerbases, and if we get to that, it's great. The playerbase we have is not large, though, so the result of this would be literally the site's death, because some people would say "No I dont want to play that one, I prefer the other!", and none of the two games would fill (assuming it's just two, with the proposed system it could be more). If the playerbase just grows, the system will naturally change to capitalism. It's good, but if you force it, it's bad.

    I think that there should be a bank of approved setups, all together in a setup workshop subsection. Those would be easily hostable, and it could get old games that were fun yet forgotten out of the workshop's grave. It would also give inspiration to people, and improve the setups' quality, and the plays themselves (since some old classic setups are pretty good for "educational" purposes).
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    I wanted to buy a kinder egg in usa. But apparently they arn't sold because they are too dangerous.
    So I bought two assault rifles instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Imagine this convo going down in real life
    “Alright Enzo come shoot my house up tonight, someone else will be there. I think. Most likely.”

  18. #18

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    I'm all for players hosting games however they want to host games. They want to have a post count limit sure... you want to have a a word count per post limit sure.... incorporate that into your setup. If a player doesn't want to be restricted by post count or Limited 2 posting in a certain way then they don't have to sign for the game. Personally I think that a player should be able to play however he likes to play if he likes to type short sentences very frequently then he should be able to do that if it's within the rules of the setup. Because it's up to the other players to read said player at that point. So all in all if you want to host a set up in a certain way. Then do it if people don't sign for your game don't throw a fit and cry about it. Sorry if this comes off a bit harsh but it's just my thoughts on the matter.
    Setting a maximum post restriction isn't really that different then setting a minimum post restriction. Both restrict playstyles in an attempt to combat ways of playing that can be potentially unfun for the other participants. The only difference is that minimum post restrictions aim to reduce lurking while maximum post restrictions aim to reduce spamming. If you truly believed that players should be allowed to play how they like, you would not have a minimum post restriction in your own FM.

  19. #19

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    to me posting less than 5 times means you're not even engaged in the game nor giving any effort to try and win the game no matter what faction you are on. Someone who posts a lot is easier to read because they just have more content for you to go over. If they are scum more chance to slip up. If they are town more chances for them to convince you that they are town. Which in my opinion makes higher posters easier to read. I do agree that players should be able to play the game however they want, but to me posting less than 5 times isn't even playing the game.
    This isn't where i parked my car.....

  20. #20

    Re: FM Moving Forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Capitalism is a good idea for large playerbases, and if we get to that, it's great. The playerbase we have is not large, though, so the result of this would be literally the site's death, because some people would say "No I dont want to play that one, I prefer the other!", and none of the two games would fill (assuming it's just two, with the proposed system it could be more). If the playerbase just grows, the system will naturally change to capitalism. It's good, but if you force it, it's bad.

    I think that there should be a bank of approved setups, all together in a setup workshop subsection. Those would be easily hostable, and it could get old games that were fun yet forgotten out of the workshop's grave. It would also give inspiration to people, and improve the setups' quality, and the plays themselves (since some old classic setups are pretty good for "educational" purposes).
    Well im curious as to what your ideal system is! Dont just put other ideas without offering your own, that wont help us here!

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

 

 

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