Discussion on game style and perspective
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  1. #1

    Discussion on game style and perspective

    Do you believe it is possible to play 100% pro-town as scum, to the point where it becomes impossible to distinguish between town and scum solely by in-game actions?

    Meta's going to come into play into this discussion. I really do feel like meta isn't really what this game is about. What do you get out of the ability to gutread a player simply because you've played with him umpthtillion times? it can be useful, sure, but in social situations you can usually tell what someone is like from the get-go, from body-language (things that are very difficult to control anyway) and other cues (clothing, their body, etc).

    And, I feel as though that correctly reading into a player's motivation involves so much more than just meta. It involves a lot of factors (the setup is one of them) and a lot of cues that people drop even unwillingly. I maintain my claim that it isn't possible to play one-hundred-percent pro-town as scum, or even one-hundred percent pro-scum as town. The progression from a town PoV simply can't be the same as the progression from a scum PoV, because scum and town aim towards different things.

    This being said, I invite others to criticize my opinion and perhaps even to show where I am wrong, and to share in on the discussion. The question is: is it possible to play 100% pro-town as scum, and for third parties to be incapable of distinguishing 100% pro-town scum from actual town?
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  2. #2

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    Yes, you should be playing mafia the same regardless of alignment; thats legit the point of the game. Always point out every slip you notice, even your scum teams. Only difference is that you know the alignment of the person you are pushing when you're scum.
    Also meta is dumb dont use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  3. #3

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    Meta certainly has a point at which it should be used, but its not the first tool. Meta is like the best bad way to play the game. The worst bad way being fucking syntax.

    For example id rather play a game of 100% meta reads than a day 1 role call

    I agree that it is impossible to play 100% pro-town as scum, because that straight up means gamethrowing, and the task of the scum is to get away with being anti town. Cryptonic is right you should have the same play style as all alignments to maintain your scum mask, but inevitably you will intentionally let things slip in an attempt to defeat the Town in a way that doesn't look intentional.
    Last edited by Slaol; December 4th, 2018 at 12:47 PM.

  4. #4

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaol View Post
    Meta certainly has a point at which it should be used, but its not the first tool. Meta is like the best bad way to play the game. The worst bad way being fucking syntax.

    For example id rather play a game of 100% meta reads than a day 1 role call
    same honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  5. #5

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    There is no body language in this game we play. We cannot see how a player is reacting or hear their response. We literally only have tempo between posts, the words used in the post themselves, and the tone a post gives off. Slips inside of these posts are anything from frustration at failed lynch attempts to superior knowledge in one part of the mechanics vs the rest of the setup.

    It is absolutely impossible to play 100% protown as scum without intentionally gamerhrowing. Playing protown doesn’t always equate to playing against your win condition/turbo lynching your partners in the game. Sometimes the consensus of the players isn’t in line with what is the best option for town victory. Playing to this general agreement of.a play style is going to be considered protown even though it is inheritantly scum who benefit, I.E town hunting.

    Playing protown by definition however strictly means playing to the absolute benefit for town in every post or action you make. Everyone knows that one of the main goals for town players is to scum hunt through applied pressure and questioning of other players. Despite this there are several players in this thread alone who use this tactic to misrepresent a case against a weaker player who accidentally said the wrong things or responds the wrong way.
    This can be seems as a protown move despite its actuality in being beneficial to scum.

    Meta use in this game can be broken down into simply reading into a players personalitys and the tendencies they have when playing one alignment over another. Human beings are, at their core, creatures of habit and intentionally going against their routine is something that a lot of people have problems with. Keeping your room clean, doing homework promptly, watching your language, playing a style as scum/town solely. It’s all personality traits and habits and those are always exploitable, we call this meta. Good players have learned what their meta typically is and have learned how to counteract these reads to their benefit. Being meta read is both an opportunity and a problem. Using meta against players who have experience in this game is a doubleedged sword and isn’t something I personally agree with using heavily.

    As an example; I have a meta for being aggressive and posting rapidly with moderate pressure on a variety of players in the daychat. I pick apart what people say and paint them whatever way I deem is possible by exploiting poorly worded posts or technicalities as a scum player. Town meta is very similar except the posts I make are more focused on certain players and do not feel fake/robotic and I do not troll nearly as much with stupid questions. Knowing this meta I can utilize it to make you read me whichever way I want. This is why applied meta always requires context to support it. How do I interact with someone and did I give up a chase for something weaker/easier to twist are good ways to properly apply the meta read one may have on me.
    Last edited by Damus_Graves; December 4th, 2018 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    well I guess that even though the action benefits scum, if they aren't gamethrowing then from their perspective the action is either meant to aid town or has somehow nothing to do with the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

  7. #7

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    Nooo . Pro-town town members lynch fellow townies 99% of games. So a pro-town scum can easily be workimg towards his wincon :P

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  8. #8

  9. #9

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    There are games where you can play 100% pro town as scum. Let the town lynch themselves like they always do. And get the easiest scum win of your lives. It happens most games, town are down each others throats and scum just have to say intelligent things and push the obviously scummy town players.
    This isn't where i parked my car.....

  10. #10

  11. #11

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaol View Post
    This may be semantics, but id call "lynching the obviously scummy town" anti-town. I cant see how acting against a faction could possibly be described as pro that faction
    if there's a player who the general consensus is finding scummy, and you point out a few reasons why, then said player shouldn't be lynched?
    This isn't where i parked my car.....

  12. #12

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    And if Mafia knows he is town and gets him lynched their action in both intent and production are anti town. Its a mask.

    A serial killer could shrug it off and hope its 50/50 town mafia, but a town lynch is anti town regardless of a players scumminess.

    A good town would fight to get the player engaged in different ways and try to save them if they could be town. A scum is more likely to take the fish in a barrel mislynch and hope no one notices how ANTI TOWN it was

  15. #15

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaol View Post
    And if Mafia knows he is town and gets him lynched their action in both intent and production are anti town. Its a mask.

    A serial killer could shrug it off and hope its 50/50 town mafia, but a town lynch is anti town regardless of a players scumminess.

    A good town would fight to get the player engaged in different ways and try to save them if they could be town. A scum is more likely to take the fish in a barrel mislynch and hope no one notices how ANTI TOWN it was
    oh, i get what you're saying to an extent, thanks for the adivce to improve my scum game!
    This isn't where i parked my car.....

  16. #16

    Re: Discussion on game style and perspective

    The main issue I have with meta reads is their simplicity. In this game, you spend a lot of time thinking about how others percieve you, regardless of alignment. If your meta read is something like "oh player X is more logical as scum" or "player X defends harder against pressure as scum", then obviously that can be easily manipulated by someone with a modicum of self awareness.

    I've come to notice several players are aware of their meta and will use it to manipulate people, and the people meta reading them seem completely oblivious to this (they're operating on the assumption their precious meta read has been undiscovered). Sadly, those people who are oblivious are too focused on trying to hide their meta read because they know it's superficial and can be easily subverted upon discovery lol.

    If meta reads had a little more subtlety to them like "I've noticed X player cares a lot how they're viewed by other players and gets very guilty when they inconvenience others, so they're unlikely to pull off such a risky gambit as scum lest they suffer the wrath of their scum team, especially if someone like player Y is on the scumteam" then it'd have a degree of respectability. But in practice it's not like that at all.

    IMO, you have to take the sort of person someone is into account when trying to read them, because it's important contextual background. But the best way to figure out what sort of person they are is to focus on that game specifically, because that's the strongest sample.

    That said, there is another side to meta reads which is entirely superficial but nonetheless effective. Helz talked about it in his guide.

 

 

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