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Thread: Carl and Fuuton

  1. #21

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  6. #26

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Quote Originally Posted by MrCarl View Post
    Fuuton always uses the same colour scheme. In this game he uses the name Sarah instead of Melinda. This isn't exactly rocket science to figure out.

    Fuuton is almost ALWAYS an evil or neutral role.

    Do you want me to submit replays of the colour scheme and amount of times this guy is an evil/neut role?

    I can't believe I've been banned over this.

    Fuuton has been harrassing me NON STOP every time he plays, says he's going to admin ban people and yet I'm the bad guy.

    If I was a hacker I would have killed him in every single game when who he was isn't apparent, which hasn't happened.

    How can this bullshit be redressed?

    Actually I never had an issue with you EVER until last month when you were constantly targetting me in EVERY SINGLE game. You were telling everyone I was a "hacker" and people were booting me from games.

    Everyone knows this about me:

    a) I use similar names
    b) I don't hack or grief (maybe once years ago I griefed, I don't even recall it was so long ago).
    c) I am a well known veteran player.

    Although I don't like you for your behaviour I would never deliberately throw a game or ruin it. The problem is...YOU HAVE. You have deliberately sort me out time and time and time and time and time again in the last month.

    I warned you If you continued I would put it up and you laughed about it. You chose to alienate me and grief. deal with it.

  7. #27

  8. #28

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuuton View Post
    This is incorrect, I actually blacklist more evil roles. I prefer executioner occasionally- this is Carl's "false" claim in every game that I prefer evil roles.
    I'll concede that my recallation is from months ago but it's a known theme that you are scum roles more often than town.

    What I would suggest is to stop using names that can identify you. This frees you to play the game without being targeted. Carl is tiptoeing on witch hunting but since you have given him legit meta reasons to suspect you it falls onto you to prevent this. Not to sound too pompous but humans are designed to recognize patterns and giving yourself an identifiable name, along with your history of rolling neutral/evil roles more often than town, it's easy to see why you get targeted for being evil.

    You guys should just bury the hatchet to be honest. You're both good players it's a shame it's escalated to this.

  9. #29

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    You've clearly had an issue with me for a while, others have seen it and mentioned it.

    In the replays I've observed more Town roles blacklisted than evil/neut. Others have also said you are evil/neut more often than not.

    You have also sought me out time and time again, I have returned it in kind. Evidenced by the replays.

    You use similar names by your own admission - hence why in the replay I knew who you were.

    There is evidence of your griefing posted in this thread.

    Link replays to games I have thrown or ruined. The games you have linked do not display that.

    Your replies are obvious to the reader that the problem being raised by you is "alienating" and "griefing" - things that you have clearly done to others which are evidenced in this thread. You like to grief others but can't handle it when you're called out for it.

    You've made no mention of hacking or even trying to counter my arguments for it. The reason is that you can't.

    Helz, a moderator, has stated "Targeting a specific player can be griefing. -But- The format of the game is anon to prevent this. -If- you choose to do the same name every game to bypass the Anon process you do loose the protection it provides and open yourself to predatory gameplay.". In accordance with the explanation stated by Helz, I have not griefed you.

    "I warned you If you continued I would put it up and you laughed about it. You chose to alienate me and grief. deal with it." - I was laughing at the absurdity of your hacking claim.

    So basically, you are salty that I targeted you because you targeted me and wanted to get me banned. The difference is that I can handle being targeted and you obviously can't seeing how you raised this false hacking report. You can give shit to people but can't receive it in turn.

    I feel sorry for your co-workers.

  10. #30

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    I'm more than happy to bury the hatchet.

    Games are supposed to be fun. This is not fun - it's a pain in the ass to constantly deal with problems.

    I will concede that Fuuton is an excellent Sc2 Mafia Player, which actually makes him quite dangerous in-game.

    There was a time a while ago when we got along well but the rivalry has clearly become out of hand.

  11. #31

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I'll concede that my recallation is from months ago but it's a known theme that you are scum roles more often than town.

    What I would suggest is to stop using names that can identify you. This frees you to play the game without being targeted. Carl is tiptoeing on witch hunting but since you have given him legit meta reasons to suspect you it falls onto you to prevent this. Not to sound too pompous but humans are designed to recognize patterns and giving yourself an identifiable name, along with your history of rolling neutral/evil roles more often than town, it's easy to see why you get targeted for being evil.

    You guys should just bury the hatchet to be honest. You're both good players it's a shame it's escalated to this.
    That's coincidental then- I have a tendency to prefer neuts, sheriff, doc and lookout. Also, neither of which function has been working correctly. I have Serial killer, DF, GF etc all BLACKLISTED. I even have doc and sheriff on prefer.

    I'm acutely aware of the fact I'm easily found- the solution is not for me to conceal myself every time- it should be to deal with the problem at hand. I should have not have to hide myself in fear of someone's unecessary griefing and retaliation on me every game. I may be a bitch but I don't throw games or ruin them. I have not been the aggressor.

  12. #32

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Quote Originally Posted by MrCarl View Post
    You've clearly had an issue with me for a while, others have seen it and mentioned it.

    In the replays I've observed more Town roles blacklisted than evil/neut. Others have also said you are evil/neut more often than not. I disagree- again. Firstly, I can prove I have more evils blacklisted- I do prefer neuts though (I haven't done so in the last 2 months as both functions are not working

    You have also sought me out time and time again, I have returned it in kind. Evidenced by the replays. Other way around.... I have never sought you, you have continously lynched me with 0 proof, jailed me and executed me on day 1 on purpose. Proof is in the pudding.

    You use similar names by your own admission - hence why in the replay I knew who you were. I am aware of this- I do not need to change my name in fear of you will target me on purpose again. How is that fair because you have a vendetta on me?

    There is evidence of your griefing posted in this thread.I don't grief. There is evidence you do. I might be a but I don't throw.

    Link replays to games I have thrown or ruined. The games you have linked do not display that. They do....including the one where you went Mayor just to lynch me ...

    Your replies are obvious to the reader that the problem being raised by you is "alienating" and "griefing" - things that you have clearly done to others which are evidenced in this thread. You like to grief others but can't handle it when you're called out for it.

    You've made no mention of hacking or even trying to counter my arguments for it. The reason is that you can't.

    Helz, a moderator, has stated "Targeting a specific player can be griefing. -But- The format of the game is anon to prevent this. -If- you choose to do the same name every game to bypass the Anon process you do loose the protection it provides and open yourself to predatory gameplay.". In accordance with the explanation stated by Helz, I have not griefed you.

    "I warned you If you continued I would put it up and you laughed about it. You chose to alienate me and grief. deal with it." - I was laughing at the absurdity of your hacking claim.

    So basically, you are salty that I targeted you because you targeted me and wanted to get me banned. The difference is that I can handle being targeted and you obviously can't seeing how you raised this false hacking report. You can give shit to people but can't receive it in turn. Again...you're missing the point. You're throwing games and griefing and seem to have some complex where you can't accept it. This is hypocrisy at it's best. I do think you have issues.

    I feel sorry for your co-workers. Well I appear to do fine as a medical negligence lawyer in real life but thanks. You should not assume an online persona is the same as in real life. That's absurd.
    See above responses in bold.

  13. #33

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Quote Originally Posted by MrCarl View Post
    I'm more than happy to bury the hatchet.

    Games are supposed to be fun. This is not fun - it's a pain in the ass to constantly deal with problems.

    I will concede that Fuuton is an excellent Sc2 Mafia Player, which actually makes him quite dangerous in-game.

    There was a time a while ago when we got along well but the rivalry has clearly become out of hand.
    I think you are misunderstanding a lot of things and have exaggerated.

    Let me start off with my perspective- I have never had a "rivalry" with you. I don't have a rivalry with anyone. This is Mafia, not the olympics. I had you on my friends list as despite your trolling/persona "e.g." carl aways wins, similar to my "ur all ugly" (amanda bynes breakdown circa 2011). I always knew you were a good player DESPITE this.

    This stemmed from about a Month ago (can't recall the date), where you randomly revealed just to lynch me without proof. Then you constantly did it EVERY single game.

    How can I be guaranteed you can't get over your salt and not target me every single game just for using the same name/similar name/ same mannerism, however you wish to label it.

    I don't care about fighting with you at all, I care about my games being ruined/thrown/targetted. After a week in court the last thing I want is not to have to deal with trolls in the one game I enjoy playing. The equation here is not difficult for me.

    And when I say I don't care about the fighting I don't. I could have buried the hatchet a long time ago, but you kept going.

    If you keep your word you'll stop the griefing then I don't have a problem. I never have had a PROBLEM with you, as far as I'm concered we were both skilled players (even on my friends list). I always considered you a threat too because you're one of the only few people (e.g. like lawiez/kira etc) that know the in depth mechanics of the game.

  14. #34

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    So you're an ambulance chaser IRL who makes up false claims of hacking on games in their spare time. I can believe that. I've seen Saul Goodman.

    In the replay where I was Mayor, I didn't know who you were until you linked this thread to me. That's also proof I wasn't hacking and that you were griefing.

    Check the replays. You have been the aggressor. There is also several statements from other players stating you are. There is evidence in the replays you target me.

    I can also prove you blacklist only town roles. The reply you posted regarding this is redundant.

    You say I've missed the point. Look at what you've reported me for - hacking and griefing. The evidence of griefing is not present as the acts committed are not deemed as griefing in the words of an SC2 Mafia moderator. So you target, insult, grief and have people removed from lobbies and don't expect retaliation? Raising this false report is retaliation for what you've perceived, which is very clear.

    How is having me removed from lobbies, targeting me in-game and griefing fair because you have a vendetta on me? Again, you have done this.

    Re-read this thread, the evidence within and think about what you're saying when you mention hypocrisy. Don't forget you have also targeted and griefed me.

    How can I be guaranteed you're not going to whisper lobby hosts to have me removed, target me, grief me, etc, as well? Oh wait I know let's raise false hacking reports.

    If you stop claiming I'm a hacker, having me removed from lobbies, raising false reports against me, griefing, etc then I also don't have a problem.

    I am over this tic for tac bullshit and so are you. So let's just stop doing it.

    __________________________________________________ ______________

    Line is there. New start if you want it.
    Last edited by MrCarl; December 17th, 2018 at 07:20 PM.

  15. #35

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Quote Originally Posted by MrCarl View Post
    So you're an ambulance chaser IRL who makes up false claims of hacking on games in their spare time. I can believe that. I've seen Saul Goodman.I don't understand this and I don't care.

    In the replay where I was Mayor, I didn't know who you were until you linked this thread to me. That's also proof I wasn't hacking and that you were griefing.How would I know? You claimed I was an evil role. I claimed you were hacking, I provided circumstancial evidence as it was suss as HELL you claim "I'm an evil role" with no proof, and lynch me without proof, yet I am. Where is the false claim? It was subject to approval and

    Check the replays. You have been the aggressor. There is also several statements from other players stating you are. There is evidence in the replays you target me.Don't know what you're watching. I don't target you in games- the replays show you are after me 100% of the time.

    I can also prove you blacklist only town roles. The reply you posted regarding this is redundant. Uh. no.

    You say I've missed the point. Look at what you've reported me for - hacking and griefing. The evidence of griefing is not present as the acts committed are not deemed as griefing in the words of an SC2 Mafia moderator. So you target, insult, grief and have people removed from lobbies and don't expect retaliation? Raising this false report is retaliation for what you've perceived, which is very clear. It is griefiing- you lynched without proof- that IS griefing.

    How is having me removed from lobbies, targeting me in-game and griefing fair because you have a vendetta on me? Again, you have done this. So have you? I had every right to as you were ruining games. Tit for tat.

    Re-read this thread, the evidence within and think about what you're saying when you mention hypocrisy. Don't forget you have also targeted and griefed me.

    How can I be guaranteed you're not going to whisper lobby hosts to have me removed, target me, grief me, etc, as well? Oh wait I know let's raise false hacking reports. Again, it wasn't false. I had reason to suspect you were. I don't think you're seeing it from my end. "FUUTON IS EVIL - Lynches name- flips evil role- 0 proof.

    If you stop claiming I'm a hacker, having me removed from lobbies, raising false reports against me, griefing, etc then I also don't have a problem. Well don't grief and I'll stop. I don't need you revealing as Mayor for Example and lynching me straight away before actually playing the game and role (as seen in the replay).

    I am over this tic for tac bullshit and so are you. So let's just stop doing it. So am I. I'm frustrated It had to get to this stage for you to realise. Again, I would stop if you do. I was never the aggressor. I am more than happy to play, I don't have a problem with you pre se but you seem to think I do.

    __________________________________________________ ______________

    Line is there. New start if you want it.

    ..................................

  16. #36

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Exec summary: I have never cared about you personally- I just want you to stop griefing and targetting me because you don't like me. Prior to last month we WERE fine. I just want to play without my games being ruined or bullshit behaviour. The whole community knows I am not a griefer. I'm still Betty from the Block.

  17. #37

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    I dont often mess with this stuff but I am locking this thread for the moment. I give you my word that an appeal will be processed.

    This is not the place to have a conversation. Feel free to PM one another. If you have something pertinent to add to the discussion feel free to PM me but I dont want to hear about how much you dislike another player or how much they dislike you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  18. #38

    Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    Sorry for the delay in processing. I have decided to deal with all the reports youíve posted against each other in 1 go here so itís going to take another day.

    @Arrow @Helz
    It seems highly likely I am going to find Carl not guilty of hacking so if you see this before I finish this lengthy review please unban him for now
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  19. #39

  20. #40

    Smile Re: Carl-HACKING + Griefing 1-S2-178026578

    There are a total of 11 replays in this thread:

    Carl's 1518 - Fuuton isn't even in this replay

    Carl's 1515:
    Fuuton calls Carl a hacker in the setup phase; carl names himself Dick Milk and fuuton names himself Kankuro.
    This game proceeds completely normally except that after Carl reveals as Mayor, Fuuton pms him his LO last will along with seemingly accidentally sending a link to fuuton's report against Carl. Carl reacts by immediately demanding that the town lynch Fuuton despite fuuton providing a legit LO last will. Carl tries to justify it later by saying that Fuuton is usually an evil role.... this is despite Fuuton's LW outing 2 evils...

    Fuuton's "Carl THROWS again":
    This is the same replay as Carl's 1515

    Carl's 1504: once again Fuuton isn't even in this replay

    Carl's 1499: This replay ends after 2 minutes.... I guess it was meant to show Fuuton using the name Melinda with a specific color scheme

    Carl's 1479: Fuuton calls Carl a hacker in setup. Carl lols and asks why he is a hacker. Fuuton mentions Carl's name a few times during the game and Carl never speaks.

    Fuuton's 267: (this is the replay that Carl was permabanned on) In setup, Fuuton claims to have a Japanese boyfriend (I thought this part was super important...). Fuuton uses the name Sarah with similar coloring as to previous Melinda uses. Carl names himself Kira. Carl says fuuton must die and correctly calls out who Fuuton is (this is not surprising given the coloring and name choice). Carl gets Fuuton lynched and continues to pretend to be Kira/Light Yagami. Fuuton threatens to ban Carl as he is applying to become a moderator


    Carl's 1472: Fuuton uses the same Melinda/colors name. Carl calls himself "Melinda the Smelly Pirate Hooker". Carl makes his identity clear by insulting Fuuton a bit. Fuuton is an administrator (Triad) while Carl is a Lookout. Fuuton strangely seems to be speaking to carl in triad night chat on N1 (IE: "Melinda you need to stop talking so much"). Despite not having any clue what Carl's role is, Fuuton accuses Carl of being the MM near the start of D2. Fuuton makes his identity clear by engaging in some back-and-forth PMs with Carl. Fuuton gets Carl lynched. Carl posts a whole bunch of salty shit and gives an XSHIP as this replay ends with his quitting. He does post his Lookout LW during the defense phase but also spams asking the town to guilty him.

    Carl's 1467: I guess this replay was just meant to show Fuuton using the same colors and Melinda name. The replay ends early but shows normal gameplay and Carl and Fuuton never even seem to be sure of each other's identities here. Basically just a normal game as far as the replay shows.

    Carl's 1466: Fuuton is not even in this replay.

    Carl's 1464: Fuuton names himself Sarah with the same color scheme. Carl gets a default name and on D1 as sheriff he makes his LW indicate he will check Fuuton N1. Fuuton dies N1 to a disguiser. Game is pretty normal although -
    11-Kim Jong Un - Doctor - Blatantly gamethrows by making up a bunch of bullshit leads as if he is detective to try to get 8 lynched even though he is doctor. He claims LO, Det, and Escort at various times and puts in his lw at one point "hope u all enjoyed our time together :)". This guy is clearly intentionally gamethrowing. Replay ends early.


    SUMMARY:
    In regards to Carl's appeal - I find him not guilty of hacking. Fuuton himself admitted to using similar names and the same color scheme. Hence, Carl did not need to hack to figure out Fuuton's identity, he simply used his knowledge of Fuuton's habits (which are evidenced through multiple of the included replays).

    In regards to the rest of the shit you each posted and also looking further at previous reports you've each filed against each other:
    I find you both guilty of griefing. In this case I will define griefing in this way: You each made attempts to lynch/kill the other based solely on out-of-game identity. You went so far as to ignore actual in-game evidence that suggested your rival was not a member of an opposing faction and tried to get them lynched/killed anyway. This is damaging the integrity of the game for others especially because in a couple of these cases - you were both town.

    A Helz quote has been passed around here a bit which is being manipulated to suggest Griefing is acceptable since you can always hide your identity.
    Here is the distinction I want to make:
    If you and I are in a game together you can figure out my identity based on whatever factors (name, color scheme, mannerisms, etc.) you can find, and you can also use knowledge of my common strategies (prefer evils? blacklist x?) to help you make sense of the game.

    What you CANNOT do is this: Completely ignore in-game information that suggests I am or am not a certain role/faction just because you have a personal relationship (positive or negative) with me outside of the game. If I give you a rock-solid alibi confirmed by 2+ other players and you're still demanding my head and ignoring significantly better leads because you don't like me: you're letting your emotions control and ruin the game for everybody. This is what we want to avoid because it not only sucks to be targeted - it sucks to be sucked into the petty fight of two whiny cry-babies.


    All that being said, at the end of the day if you feel like you are being targeted you can probably solve the problem yourself by simply not using an obvious name while playing with your aggressor. It is a real pain for us to deal with these petty disputes and it's really not that big of a deal for you to be forced to use a different name for a game or two. Please remember that we are not your babysitters...


    Recommended Punishments:
    Carl: 1-S2-1-7802658
    Remove Permanent Ban.
    Add WL X4

    Fuuton: 1-S2-1-4470197
    Add WL X4



    I'm recommending extended WLs for both of you based on the following:
    • You each have a history and should know better
    • I really don't feel like dealing with another petty report that is directly between the 2 of you
    • I am hoping the threat of time on the ban list will get you both to reconsider being assholes to one another and everyone else, since you both know that the other will report you as soon as you start breaking the rules

    @Helz @Arrow
    Last edited by aamirus; December 19th, 2018 at 01:23 AM.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

 

 

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