JESUS!

[Rachyl]

praise jesus.jpg
Praise Jesus! Son of the Most High God!!!
I love you Jesus!

[Ganelon]

You know what really bothers me? If someone came in here chanting about Mohammed, nobody would bat an eye and if you were to tell that person "away with yer religious propaganda/delusion", you'd be called islamophobic. This is especially true of Europe, where we just cuck ourselves with "Islamophobia" and "religious tolerance", where some countries even have laws against BLASPHEMY passed (Austria), and usually the laws aren't enforced EXCEPT when it comes to Islam.

[yzb25]

You know what really bothers me? If someone came in here chanting about Mohammed, nobody would bat an eye and if you were to tell that person "away with yer religious propaganda/delusion", you'd be called islamophobic. This is especially true of Europe, where we just cuck ourselves with "Islamophobia" and "religious tolerance", where some countries even have laws against BLASPHEMY passed (Austria), and usually the laws aren't enforced EXCEPT when it comes to Islam.

That is not true at all. People are extremely anti-Islam in general. Obviously the media and politicians are PC fanatics but that doesn't represent the typical person posting here.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That is not true at all. People are extremely anti-Islam in general. Obviously the media and politicians are PC fanatics but that doesn't represent the typical person posting here.

Uh, YES it is. White saying he doesn't like a black guy = racist, black saying he doesn't like a black guy = ok. Don't tell me this isn't real, I HAVE HAD PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF THIS. It's the same with religions.

[yzb25]

Uh, YES it is. White saying he doesn't like a black guy = racist, black saying he doesn't like a black guy = ok. Don't tell me this isn't real, I HAVE HAD PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF THIS. It's the same with religions.

I suppose it depends on your company, but the average European views Islam as a bad ideology that's incompatible with western ideals. The vast majority of non-muslims will not get mad at you if you politely explain why you think Islam is bad. The muslims themselves will obviously get mad, because you're essentially criticizing a core part of their identity, but that's not the end of the world.

The outrage is largely coming from the people criticizing Islam. You're the ones getting worked up and typing in caps, while you ironically assert you're being victimized.

We can acknowledge that Islam is a harmful ideology without getting self righteous or belittling the islamophobia muslims have to put up with.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I suppose it depends on your company, but the average European views Islam as a bad ideology that's incompatible with western ideals. The vast majority of non-muslims will not get mad at you if you politely explain why you think Islam is bad. The muslims themselves will obviously get mad, because you're essentially criticizing a core part of their identity, but that's not the end of the world.

The outrage is largely coming from the people criticizing Islam. You're the ones getting worked up and typing in caps, while you ironically assert you're being victimized.

We can acknowledge that Islam is a harmful ideology without getting self righteous or belittling the islamophobia muslims have to put up with.

Bold would have been more appropriated here lol

[Ganelon]

I suppose it depends on your company, but the average European views Islam as a bad ideology that's incompatible with western ideals. The vast majority of non-muslims will not get mad at you if you politely explain why you think Islam is bad. The muslims themselves will obviously get mad, because you're essentially criticizing a core part of their identity, but that's not the end of the world.

The outrage is largely coming from the people criticizing Islam. You're the ones getting worked up and typing in caps, while you ironically assert you're being victimized.

We can acknowledge that Islam is a harmful ideology without getting self righteous or belittling the islamophobia muslims have to put up with.

Nobody was being harmful. And how can you say that when in some parts of Europe it's literally illegal to talk negatively about Islam? Personally, I'm a Deist, so I don't really care for either Christianity/Islam, but you don't see Christians blowing themselves up.

Also, another thing: in the Netherlands, there are pretty much two types of Muslims: Indonesian Muslims (who are regarded as and regard themselves as Dutch, usually), and Turks/Moroccans, who are pretty poorly regarded and keep to themselves. Nobody has oppressed Indonesian Muslims here - there's one politician in favour of curtailing immigration from non-Western countries (and of leaving the EU).

This is just disingenuous when Muslims can commit blasphemy against Christianity without anyone giving a shit, and they rarely get punished for doing so. Not that they should be, but "double standards". People have been jailed/fined for this.

[Cryptonic]

You know what really bothers me? If someone came in here chanting about Mohammed, nobody would bat an eye and if you were to tell that person "away with yer religious propaganda/delusion", you'd be called islamophobic. This is especially true of Europe, where we just cuck ourselves with "Islamophobia" and "religious tolerance", where some countries even have laws against BLASPHEMY passed (Austria), and usually the laws aren't enforced EXCEPT when it comes to Islam.

Motion 103

[NoctiZ]

Motion 103

Dismissed

[Arsonist]

Your gods are fake, hail Satan.

[Rachyl]

Your gods are fake, hail Satan.

Jesus loves you my friend! Satan does not care about you! He abides not in the truth and is the Father of lies! Turn and repent away from that way of thinking and put your faith in Jesus Christ to save you!!!!

[DJarJar]

Jesus loves you my friend! Satan does not care about you! He abides not in the truth and is the Father of lies! Turn and repent away from that way of thinking and put your faith in Jesus Christ to save you!!!!

Have you read the book of Genesis? (Specifically chapters 2 and 3)

[Rachyl]

Have you read the book of Genesis? (Specifically chapters 2 and 3)

OH! I love when unbelievers try to ask me if i have read the bible! YES IVE READ THE BIBLE!!!!! WHATS YOUR POINT! MAKE IT QUICK!

[Ganelon]

Have you read the book of Genesis? (Specifically chapters 2 and 3)

I just read it. I would assume that you have a problem with the "and the man shall rule over thee" part?

[DJarJar]

I just read it. I would assume that you have a problem with the "and the man shall rule over thee" part?

Well I find it interesting that god seems to lie (he says that eating from the tree of knowledge will kill the man that same day, which does not happen) whilst the serpent (Satan) is the one who actually tells the truth.

Now I’ve already read a bunch of defenses for this which insist that god told the truth and that the serpent was lying, but I feel like these are pretty weak arguments.

1. God is not lying because god cannot lie as written in X, Y, and Z scripture.
Well this argument is weak because all of those things were written AFTER Genesis so they are essentially just ret-cons against a more original text

2. By death god meant a metaphorical or spiritual death
I think God’s reaction in chapter 3 suggests that this is not the case. If they’ve already been punished with a spiritual/metaphorical death because they ate from the tree, why does he then need to give them additional punishments on top of that which he said nothing about before? Either he lied about them physically dying, or he told the truth about a metaphorical death but conveniently decided not to mention the additional punishments they’d receive like birthing pains and difficulty growing crops - which if he had mentioned would have further dissuaded them from eating from the tree. I think there is further evidence in Eve’s conversation with the serpent - clearly Eve at least is interpreting death as literally as I am, and the writer never suggests that she is wrong in doing so.

3. God’s days are longer than earth days, hence God didn’t lie about them dying that same day (Adam lives for like 930 years according to Bible)
I feel like this excuse is just too much of a stretch. Why would his days be 1000+ years long and why would the writer of the text expect anybody to know that? In that case, things are so abstract for interpretation that you can’t really properly interpret anything said in the Bible at all

I dunno, it seems to me that the original text of genesis shows God lying (which wasn’t such a big deal yet because the notion of Satan didn’t yet exist so God was more of just an all powerful being rather than being the good guy vs some bad guy) and that later scripture writers didn’t like this as it didn’t really fit their vision of God so they just tried to ret-con it.

I’ll tackle the serpent part later but I’m curious to see what your interpretation of this is Rachyl

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I like this, Aamirus you are kinda right, especially on the 3rd point. People seem to forget that in the old days, before Jesus was born, God wasn't the lord of mercy and happiness or whatever. He was God Almighty, the jealous god, and punished people for nothing (didn't God hit super hard on some very pious guy just to prove to Satan that the guy was pious?)

Not very merciful, heh?


There's one thing you're missing, though, and I think Rachyl is missing it even more than you... The point of religion is not to say that this is what happened for real nowadays. We have proofs that the world was not created 4000 years ago. We also have proofs that we are "evolved" monkeys. The point of religion is to give guidelines to people, in order to live better and/or to keep order in society. To keep people to have a common thinking line. I think that what Christianism preaches is good, but that being the slave of an ultimate being to who you owe everything is bad.

I'll take a quote from a Zen master I don't remember the name of: By telling the disabled man "Stand up!", Jesus did not save him. He only put him in a deeper disabling: the servitude to a God almighty that had his fate in his hands. In order to actually free him, he should have said "You may walk now".

This is translated by myself from my own memory so you might not find the quote if u search for it, but you get the idea.



I'll finish with this: If you really think that everything in the Bible is true, do two things: 1: use logic, for God's sake and your own, and 2: Don't tell people they're going to hell if they follow the path of the Bible without believing that what is in it really happened.

[Arsonist]

Why you talk about islam when you just can worship the devil and don't give a f*** about it

[DJarJar]

I don’t live in Europe but from what I’ve heard it seems like there are steadily rising movements in most European countries that are basically like “We need to get rid of these Muslims, they are causing all the problems in our country”. Now what does that sound like?

[Ganelon]

I don’t live in Europe but from what I’ve heard it seems like there are steadily rising movements in most European countries that are basically like “We need to get rid of these Muslims, they are causing all the problems in our country”. Now what does that sound like?

And I fully endorse them. Most Middle Eastern muslim immigrants fail to integrate, or to even give a damn about the country they emigrate to. There's entire neighborhoods in Amsterdam/Rotterdam of majority muslim population, where women/girls (esp. attractive girls), gays and Jews don't walk around unescorted by someone else. Obviously kicking out ALL Muslims is going too far (and legally impossible), but kicking out the illegals and imposing stricter resident requirements would be better than what's currently happening.

In Germany, for instance, the Turkish muslim populace tend to identify as Turkish first and German second. Which is wrong! If you emigrate to a country, you should be expected to fully integrate and to at least partially assimilate to the culture, and you should definitely believe that your assimilated culture is superior to your native culture. I'm saying this as an immigrant myself.

I live next to an old church. A few days ago, I found out that it was turned into a Mosque several years ago. If you tried to turn an Istanbulese mosque into a Church, you'd be called a bigot lol

[Apocist]

wonder whose God God's is? Like...what's it's greater power that it worships? There's always something above you, so there must be something above it. Or is it atheist?

[Cryptonic]

wonder whose God God's is? Like...what's it's greater power that it worships? There's always something above you, so there must be something above it. Or is it atheist?

yea, someone creating life is a paradox. actually, life itself is a paradox. it probably only exists because it's impossible for it to exist.
there's no reason for matter or energy to exist, yet it does.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

yea, someone creating life is a paradox. actually, life itself is a paradox. it probably only exists because it's impossible for it to exist.
there's no reason for matter or energy to exist, yet it does.

It's why the concept of god(s) exists. Also, someone creating life is not a paradox if it's not someone but something. Is God a living being?

[Arsonist]

It's why the concept of god(s) exists. Also, someone creating life is not a paradox if it's not someone but something. Is God a living being?

There's multiple defintions for a god. It may be anything.
Jesus, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Nothing and other heresy.

[yzb25]

yea, someone creating life is a paradox. actually, life itself is a paradox. it probably only exists because it's impossible for it to exist.
there's no reason for matter or energy to exist, yet it does.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or 2deep4me XD

And I fully endorse them. Most Middle Eastern muslim immigrants fail to integrate, or to even give a damn about the country they emigrate to. There's entire neighborhoods in Amsterdam/Rotterdam of majority muslim population, where women/girls (esp. attractive girls), gays and Jews don't walk around unescorted by someone else. Obviously kicking out ALL Muslims is going too far (and legally impossible), but kicking out the illegals and imposing stricter resident requirements would be better than what's currently happening.

In Germany, for instance, the Turkish muslim populace tend to identify as Turkish first and German second. Which is wrong! If you emigrate to a country, you should be expected to fully integrate and to at least partially assimilate to the culture, and you should definitely believe that your assimilated culture is superior to your native culture. I'm saying this as an immigrant myself.

I live next to an old church. A few days ago, I found out that it was turned into a Mosque several years ago. If you tried to turn an Istanbulese mosque into a Church, you'd be called a bigot lol

I respect that you're raising serious points, and that these countries may benefit from stricter immigration regulation, but those groups aren't really going to solve things. They don't ever actually propose policies that can be reasonably enacted. They just stage rallies and stir shit up.

There's more subtle ways to handle the failed integration and fight harmful religious ideologies, like shutting down religious schools, making mosques state sponsored and making religious studies not a joke and teaching kids critical thinking in schools.

[Ganelon]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or 2deep4me XD



I respect that you're raising serious points, and that these countries may benefit from stricter immigration regulation, but those groups aren't really going to solve things. They don't ever actually propose policies that can be reasonably enacted. They just stage rallies and stir shit up.

There's more subtle ways to handle the failed integration and fight harmful religious ideologies, like shutting down religious schools, making mosques state sponsored and making religious studies not a joke and teaching kids critical thinking in schools.

But sometimes stirring shit up (which not all of them are doing, btw) puts enough pressure on the government to actually do something. Not that I support "banning all Muslims" or retarded shit like that (because it's retarded), but something definitely needs to be done. Way stricter immigration requirements for non-EU citizens and deportation of people who've failed to integrate and who've lived in the country for quite a while. (not natural-born citizens, ofc).

[yzb25]

But sometimes stirring shit up (which not all of them are doing, btw) puts enough pressure on the government to actually do something. Not that I support "banning all Muslims" or retarded shit like that (because it's retarded), but something definitely needs to be done. Way stricter immigration requirements for non-EU citizens and deportation of people who've failed to integrate and who've lived in the country for quite a while. (not natural-born citizens, ofc).

How would you measure whether they've "failed to integrate"?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

wonder whose God God's is? Like...what's it's greater power that it worships? There's always something above you, so there must be something above it. Or is it atheist?

I'm going to risk myself by saying that God is a demiurge.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This implies God was and is everything since "the beginning", and that he has been there forever.

Christianism doesn't think like that; even if I agree with you, it is not the point of view of christians, and if you want to understand their conception of their God, you must take their point of view. God Almighty is the ultimate being, the "Highest", as Rachyl previously said.


Also a little note for you, Rachyl. It's not because someone knows parts of the Bible that this someone believes in it :P

[Arsonist]

wonder whose God God's is? Like...what's it's greater power that it worships? There's always something above you, so there must be something above it. Or is it atheist?

Who is above Donald Trump in USA? Right, nobody. So it may be that there's no such a thing as god's god.
And LaVey says: The god is you.

[yzb25]

Who is above Donald Trump in USA? Right, nobody. So it may be that there's no such a thing as god's god.
And LaVey says: The god is you.

Fuck, you've done it! You've checkmated the Americans!

They must choose between believing in god or believing in Trump...

Or they must combine the two into one...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Fuck, you've done it! You've checkmated the Americans!

They must choose between believing in god or believing in Trump...

Or they must combine the two into one...

But tis be their motto: in God is their trust... RIP TRUMP

[Apocist]

Who is above Donald Trump in USA? Right, nobody. So it may be that there's no such a thing as god's god.
And LaVey says: The god is you.

Huh? Isn't everything above Trump? That's probably the least worthy existence that Apo knows of currently.

[Arsonist]

Huh? Isn't everything above Trump? That's probably the least worthy existence that Apo knows of currently.

He's a president of americunts and what did YOU? Right, nothing.

[Light_Yagami]

In My View Jesus Doesnt Exist..

[Arsonist]

In My View Jesus Doesnt Exist..

Jesus is the god's son, so god is a vigrin?