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Thread: Why

  1. ISO #1

    Why

    Im so fucking angry right now. Im so fed up with going to funerals. Im totally at a loss for how to keep my friends alive. I recognize ways to help my friends but I find myself so lacking to manifest my will. Im not ok watching my brothers reach out to a system that functions on the necessity that the least capable advocate for themselves. Im not ok seeing my friends totally broken as human beings holding themselves together on the premis of spending time with their children and being denied that. Its not cool that I live in a soicety which perpetuates the concept of freedom while rejecting it in action. For everything I am I cant understand how a man can break himself for his country and find himself prevented from seeing his children. When everyone that touches the situation says its fucked and the situation prevails we have to recognize as a society that something is very wrong.
    Were canabolising our childrens future in the name of capitalism for a corproocrisy we never wanted under the guise of a diffrent name. I recognize that I have failed this community in a few aspects but I can accept that more than I can accept my failure as a human being to protect the people I really care about. I have a very real lack of self respect as an American and I hate how much I cant fight for this thing I thought I gave everything for. I honestly dont think its ok that im having regular conversations with friends about how they feel their families would be better off with the insurance money from their deaths. I fucking hate that I feel like veterans have to compromise their integrity just to get help. This is a really silly place for me to vent but it is what it is.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  2. ISO #2

    Re: Why

    I can't say I can relate at all to what you're saying Helz, but it does show an eye-opening perspective I've never completely seen (or at least reminded me that this awful aspect to our society exists). Thanks for sharing this Helz. I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through this, and also for your friends in the military.

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  3. ISO #3

    Re: Why

    So sorry to hear this. Life can be very overwhelming and it seems to pile it on more and more as we age. I was in a similar situation where a close friend was slowly being destroyed last year and it was very hard to cope with. I reached out to an online forum for advice and the best advice I took away from it was basically... shit things happen that are in no way your fault or your responsibility to bear, irregardless of how much you wish to or try to help. I wish I could word it in a more profound way, but accepting that made my frustrations with the situation more easier to manage. I hope everything works out for the best in your situation as it did in mine. Time is sometimes the best coping mechanism. Letting your frustrations out definitely helps even if you think posting it here doesn't mean anything. We all need an outlet, better to send it outwards in a healthy way rather than keeping it in. Best of luck to you and your friend.

  4. ISO #4

    Re: Why

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I honestly dont think its ok that im having regular conversations with friends about how they feel their families would be better off with the insurance money from their deaths.
    This part was a bit shocking to read tbh.

    But regarding Veterans - I never understood the American obsession with that word. Sometimes I could swear it's their 3rd most used word, right after "America" and "Children". I realize that America has, probably, one of the biggest militaries in the world, if not THE biggest, so it stands to reason they would have a lot of Veterans. But god damn I am sick and tired of that word.
    Me personally - I don't have high respect for them because I don't have a high respect for the US military itself ("let's create a war for oil and call it bringing freedom!"). If I don't like the military then, of course, I care little about the individuals in it.

    Having said that - I don't think that the lack of support for veterans is the core source of the problem you are seeing/experiencing.
    I think that the problem is that all those people were more or less forced to join the military because of lack of other options. Everything military is, probably mostly if not all, paid with tax money. The thing is though - where do they get tax money from if such a relatively large portion of people are in the military? Having a larger military means having to spend more tax money while also having less of it to begin with.
    Last edited by OzyWho; May 8th, 2018 at 02:23 AM.

  5. ISO #5

    Re: Why

    That's horrible to hear. Fight the urge to blame yourself for their suffering though. I doubt that's what they'd want man. Try to do what you can without getting hung up on your limitations.

    Most of us here probably can't imagine what it must feel like, but I sincerely hope you got something out of venting to us regardless. You always seemed like a cool guy and I hope you find light at the end of the tunnel.

  6. ISO #6

  7. ISO #7

    Re: Why

    Wow... I disagree with the causes of the war (as Ozy said, they often say they'll help people when they're killilng them for ressources or politics), but the people who go to war, willing to defend their country (or what it defends), are way too much left behind. The ones who survive are left with money and help. It's just stupid and horrible. To be honest: you are not responsible for this. I have not got in any similar situation, but I know that people coming back are seriously hurt, in both mental and physical ways. Laws are utterly insufficient: you are not able to do anything, sadly. Don't hit on yourself. You can however say this. Not just here: you can advocate for that cause. Let it be known, if it can help. I'm really sorry to hear that.
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  8. ISO #8

    Re: Why

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Its not cool that I live in a soicety which perpetuates the concept of freedom while rejecting it in action.
    Yea, it's fucked man.

    Veteran's affairs is severely understaffed and not functional. Then, the politicians claim to care about it and promote any positive changes they make - even though the changes are insignificant. Just look at its funding or how understaffed it is even after a recent hiring. It's manipulative and hypocritical.

    Corporate greed and propaganda runs this country, so don't blame yourself.
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  9. ISO #9

    Re: Why

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    This part was a bit shocking to read tbh.

    But regarding Veterans - I never understood the American obsession with that word. Sometimes I could swear it's their 3rd most used word, right after "America" and "Children". I realize that America has, probably, one of the biggest militaries in the world, if not THE biggest, so it stands to reason they would have a lot of Veterans. But god damn I am sick and tired of that word.
    Me personally - I don't have high respect for them because I don't have a high respect for the US military itself ("let's create a war for oil and call it bringing freedom!"). If I don't like the military then, of course, I care little about the individuals in it.

    Having said that - I don't think that the lack of support for veterans is the core source of the problem you are seeing/experiencing.
    I think that the problem is that all those people were more or less forced to join the military because of lack of other options. Everything military is, probably mostly if not all, paid with tax money. The thing is though - where do they get tax money from if such a relatively large portion of people are in the military? Having a larger military means having to spend more tax money while also having less of it to begin with.
    I dislike what it means to be a veteran in some ways. I see veterans working the system. Some of them have attitudes like society owes them a free pass for the rest of their lives because they did 4 years and went through some shit. Others dont give a fuck about this country and act like they were victimized by some mechanical process against their will. Some even overtly use the system. They do anything they can to get benefits and enable their lifestyle. Still others use the processes meant to help vets work through the issues that can be created through service just to keep a roof over their heads. It sucks to go to a facility and watch some asshole pretend like he wants to get better just so he can fill his wallet and get drunk. It sucks to hear some clown blame the system when they have gone through 50 programs and have 0 desire to get better. I get that thats out there but its not all of us. Some of us genuinely care for our country and just wanted to something that mattered to us. Yes we better ourselves in many respects in the process but it was not the objective in our minds when we signed up. Swearing an oath and running around in areas people want to kill you takes true conviction in any moral man.
    After the fact growing to understand how fucked up events effected you takes admiring that your fucked up. It requires humbling yourself and embracing functions you know nothing about. I hope that you can recognize the difference between a system you resent and the people that function within it. I hope that you can recognize there is human beings that go into such a system with totally selfless desires and walk out needing help.
    I also dont believe the lack of support for veterans is the core source of the problems I am seeing. I have no problem holding myself or the veteran community as a whole responsible for the problems we face as a society. Those that walked in with parasitic intentions not only cant be helped but also cripple the systems in place to provide help.
    I recently spent some time in Waco Texas at the VA. Specifically a facility called 94b. Very basic principals were totally absent in a way that offended me to my core. There were vets with multiple strokes who were minimally functional getting treatment crammed down their throats. I consider myself extremely functional and I faced an utter lack of information. A basic premis in healthcare is to respect a patients autonomy. To give them information and provide them with a choice as to how they want to be taken care of. This was totally absent. In my short stay there I was coherced into taking medicine under false pretenses. I was told they didnt know how I hadent had a stroke yet given my blood pressure. That I needed to take something for it or risk brain damage. I said its fine but I want information on what I am taking. This was never provided to me. Every so often the subject would come up again and I began to question why my blood pressure was not being monitored if it was such a substantial risk to my health. A week or so later I found out the medication had nothing to do with my heart. It was something else entirely. Not just that but my blood pressure really was at critical levels. I grew very angry. I recognized I was not being provided the option to choose my healthcare but that it was being decided for me. I recognized that my basic health was not being treated independent of that situation. I attempted to reached out through established functions to voice my concerns and was not allowed to do so. Without going into detail about 2 other very critical issues objectively looking at the situation ethical healthcare was not provided. I recognize that the VA is critically underfunded and that looking for highly qualified people to deal with terrible situations for shit pay is hard but thats something I dont accept. Americans throw crazy amounts of money at the situation trying to fix it and it gets dumped into multi million dollar facilities while the healthcare itself is morally lacking. Some of the situations were just negligent but some of them were overt and I am not happy at all its left to the least capable to advocate for their own care while significant barriers exist to even voicing their opinions of their treatment. Its not cool that they are not informed of their rights as patients and even when there is an understanding of it they are prevented from even gathering information on what those rights are or reaching out to voice barriers to ethical treatment. This is not a lack of support, its just inappropriate support.
    My negative experience with the VA went much farther than that but what I can't wrap my mind around is what the fuck I am suppose to do with my friends. A lot of them carry purple hearts and went through some rough shit and I recognize they as broken of a human being as I am. I finally got the balls to step up and reach out for help and found it so lacking. Its this cross in perspective from recognizing I was unable to reach out for help to finding that what existed was so inadequate. I walked into the situation with an understanding that PTSD can be cured and thinking I could show them through my life that they can be helped and found that ugly reality existed. Im not ok with people getting pills crammed down their throats and the mechanical way something so personal is being addressed. Im so fucking angry that my experience is closing doors and options to the people in my life I want to show theres a better way. I am truly humbled to be a part of a society who is willing to try to help me when I find myself unable to help myself but the lack of basic ethical behavior offends me so deeply Im having trouble just dealing with the anger it creates. Theres another straight the fuck up act of criminal negligence I dont even want to touch on because I want control over how its handled. It really sucks sitting around trying to reason with peoples logic on how to tell their mother they just dont want to live. Talking them through how their wife is asking if they even love them and saying how they should have died rather than come back like this.
    Independent of all that I have a big issue with society. My friends baby moma filed so many false reports with a police department they shut her down so she went to another one and got a protective order where he cant see his children. Its totally fucking insane such a blatant abuse of the system exists. Sure the shit will get handled eventually but in the mean time a guy who is just living for his children cant see them. Not only that but legally the fact his ex is so flagrantly abusing the system has zero repercussions. Its apparently not worth the time to address for the DA that this lady is straight up making verifiable false claims all over the place and he is guilty until proven innocent even when the chick has convictions for drug issues. This crazy bitch isnt taking his kids to school and somehow he is still legally responsible for the fact they havent gone to school even though theres a protective order that says he cant come around them. Filing with CPS apparently differs to current legal action so theres no option other than to wait for him. Im really pissed off my friend served his country to fight for this nation and he cant see his kids when literally anyone who knows about the situation says how fucked up it is. That woman is acting insane as hell, has tons of documented legal issues and he has a totally clean record. How is it we live in a world where this is allowed to happen? We talk about order and justice but I dont see it. It really fucking sucks to be a man in todays society where children are weapons. I wish I could say thats an isolated incident but it really isnt. I know 2 other guys in similar situations. Killing themselves working crazy hours just to pay lawyers for shit a 2 year old could see is not right. When he is telling me how much he hates that he survived getting blown up and if he knew this was the America he was fighting for I have no idea what to say to him. I just sit there like an asshole talking about some mythical future I dont even believe in. Im not ok with this. I dont know anyone that understands the circumstances who is.
    Set that aside and look at what were doing to our youth. People that walk the line are told you can succeed if you go to college yet the value of a high school diploma in ratio to current days is now equal to that of an associates degree. Our children are brought up with a view that theres this correct path and they get out into the world and realize they are now strapped with debt and have no more options than they had when before college. We are teaching them how to regurgitate information as opposed to how to think. Anyone that keeps up with current academia can tell you all about the movement for 'smart books' and if they have a few brain cells working they can see the financial implications of creating obligated curriculum that cant be reused. These motions by powerhouses in education reflect capitalistic and profit driven behaviors in conflict with the very basic concept of creating processes that enable people to achieve in life. The edge of education right now is briding into concepts that relate to different cognitive processing while focus on educational policy is on methods that have been proven profitable. Were building multi-million dollar schools, teaching our kids next to nothing and acting like theres a conflict of interest in the evaluation process when we cant stand up to any other first world country in a quantifiable way.

    I guess I am just ranting now but I hate the direction my world is headed in. I have rejected society for a long time but more than this should exist. Basic logic is absent in the most critical aspects that make us human. This is a very different fight than I am use to. I dont want to change the world but I feel totally obligated to fight for this. I feel so helpless to find basic care in systems that exist just to provide that help and I am so offended I feel obligated to fight for them to change. I have a really big problem with life right now. Im tired of watching my friends die and trying to hold together those they leave behind. Im really upset that I wake up every morning and hope I didnt get some message more of them are dead. I understand why you have no respect for vets but I do hope you can understand where I am coming from. This is not how life is suppose to be
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  10. ISO #10

    Re: Why

    Helz,

    You have a gift and a great heart. You haven't failed us at all. Don't feel that way for one second. You do a ton of work on the map and for the community as a whole. You also haven't failed your friends and fellow veterans. I am sure you have made a difference in some of their lives. You can't take on all of their burdens or the responsibility of their decisions. You are part of a group that has a high rate of suicide. I can't begin to imagine how difficult it must be to see some of your friends not be able to overcome the monster. I know you have a heart for helping others and that is great and admirable but don't forget to protect yourself when you need to. It is heavy stuff to try to help others through some of the very deep life struggles you mention. Take care of you so you have the capacity to be a gift to others.

    Sadly, our healthcare system is designed to keep people just slightly back from the brink of death or severe illness. The way it operates isn't helping anyone actually get healthy. It needs to change.

    We should chat soon.
    Winner of Survivor 2

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