[Mechanics] Arsonist dousing instead of burning.
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  1. #1

    Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    I was arsonist 5 this game (there are two). After the first arsonist 1 died, I decided to burn what have been doused so far, which was 8 (bus driver), probably few people doused by 1 too.
    I got bussed that night, and then somehow I end up dousing myself. Even if 8 did switch me with himself, and I might have killed myself, this still shouldn't happen.

    -Mafia- (932).SC2Replay
    I have no use for these bloodless minnows. Bring me a prey that will sate my bloodlust. I hunger.

  2. #2

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    ok so this is an interesting series of events, all on n4:

    9 who is a Bus Driver (viewable as Everyone in the replay) bus drives himself with you, 5.
    5 who is you, the arsonist(viewable as #3 in the replay), chooses to ignite
    11, the escort(viewable as #4 in the replay), chooses to Roleblock you, 5.
    4,13 the mafias, choose to attack and clean you, 5.

    There is a bug here in the order of operations because:
    The bus driver successfully swaps the targets of everyone who was going to visit you to instead visit him. He is the one who dies and he receives the message that he has been role-blocked; however, if he has been role-blocked then how can the targets have been swapped?

    What ultimately seems to have happened:
    You doused yourself because the order of events seems to have resulted in the game thinking that you tried to role-block yourself. Somehow the game registered that somebody tried to role-block you so you went to douse that player, but that player ended up being you.


    I don't know how the events are programmed so I cannot really diagnose the cause, but I am definitely curious to know how the game would handle a bus driver swapping himself with somebody who is being Role-blocked in general.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    ok so this is an interesting series of events, all on n4:

    9 who is a Bus Driver (viewable as Everyone in the replay) bus drives himself with you, 5.
    5 who is you, the arsonist(viewable as #3 in the replay), chooses to ignite
    11, the escort(viewable as #4 in the replay), chooses to Roleblock you, 5.
    4,13 the mafias, choose to attack and clean you, 5.

    There is a bug here in the order of operations because:
    The bus driver successfully swaps the targets of everyone who was going to visit you to instead visit him. He is the one who dies and he receives the message that he has been role-blocked; however, if he has been role-blocked then how can the targets have been swapped?

    What ultimately seems to have happened:
    You doused yourself because the order of events seems to have resulted in the game thinking that you tried to role-block yourself. Somehow the game registered that somebody tried to role-block you so you went to douse that player, but that player ended up being you.


    I don't know how the events are programmed so I cannot really diagnose the cause, but I am definitely curious to know how the game would handle a bus driver swapping himself with somebody who is being Role-blocked in general.
    A pro just spoke
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

  5. #5

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    ok so this is an interesting series of events, all on n4:

    9 who is a Bus Driver (viewable as Everyone in the replay) bus drives himself with you, 5.
    5 who is you, the arsonist(viewable as #3 in the replay), chooses to ignite
    11, the escort(viewable as #4 in the replay), chooses to Roleblock you, 5.
    4,13 the mafias, choose to attack and clean you, 5.

    There is a bug here in the order of operations because:
    The bus driver successfully swaps the targets of everyone who was going to visit you to instead visit him. He is the one who dies and he receives the message that he has been role-blocked; however, if he has been role-blocked then how can the targets have been swapped?

    What ultimately seems to have happened:
    You doused yourself because the order of events seems to have resulted in the game thinking that you tried to role-block yourself. Somehow the game registered that somebody tried to role-block you so you went to douse that player, but that player ended up being you.


    I don't know how the events are programmed so I cannot really diagnose the cause, but I am definitely curious to know how the game would handle a bus driver swapping himself with somebody who is being Role-blocked in general.
    Mind blown.......

    I think bus driver can get roleblocked even if he switch himself.
    Operations orders are actually complicated. For example, If escort roleblock a witch, the escort takes priority, but if witch control escort to roleblock someone, witch takes precedence. It's weird..
    I have no use for these bloodless minnows. Bring me a prey that will sate my bloodlust. I hunger.

  6. #6

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    http://sc2mafia.wikia.com/wiki/Mechanics

    The link to the OoO page of Sc2 Mafia mod. So yeah, there's a paradox. But bus driver busses a RANDOM number of times, meaning that the last time he does, roleblock happens. So if he switches 5 times, the 5th time is stopped, so it's like if he had bussed 4 times. Of course, you don't see 4 or 5 bus messages, just one...
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

  7. #7

  8. #8

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by minnorobot View Post
    thats because witch has priority over everyone but jailor and maybe busdriver, if the witch controls the escort on someone and escort tries to rb the witch they wont be rbed, but if they try to control someone else they cant because they were rbed.
    There was no witch involved. And read the page I linked, it's the OoO of the Sc2Mafia mod.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

  9. #9

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    http://sc2mafia.wikia.com/wiki/Mechanics

    The link to the OoO page of Sc2 Mafia mod. So yeah, there's a paradox. But bus driver busses a RANDOM number of times, meaning that the last time he does, roleblock happens. So if he switches 5 times, the 5th time is stopped, so it's like if he had bussed 4 times. Of course, you don't see 4 or 5 bus messages, just one...
    I see that on the wiki too but it is confusing. What does it mean to run through the Witch/BD/RBers sequence multiple times?
    Does it mean that you would get this repeated sequence:
    Case 1: Bus driver swaps targets from arson to himself. Escort RBs the bus driver AFTERwards.
    Case 2: Bus driver was RBed last round so does nothing. Escort RBs the arson.
    and then repeat an arbitrary number of times?
    and then randomly stop at some point?

    So then based on what happened in this replay the last run-through was a case 1, since the bus driver received the RB message and was killed by the mafia. But because the arson was theoretically RBed each time case 2 was ran-through, he went to douse his role-blocker; however, since nobody is actually RBing him, he just defaulted to dousing himself?
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  10. #10

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I see that on the wiki too but it is confusing. What does it mean to run through the Witch/BD/RBers sequence multiple times?
    Does it mean that you would get this repeated sequence:
    Case 1: Bus driver swaps targets from arson to himself. Escort RBs the bus driver AFTERwards.
    Case 2: Bus driver was RBed last round so does nothing. Escort RBs the arson.
    and then repeat an arbitrary number of times?
    and then randomly stop at some point?

    So then based on what happened in this replay the last run-through was a case 1, since the bus driver received the RB message and was killed by the mafia. But because the arson was theoretically RBed each time case 2 was ran-through, he went to douse his role-blocker; however, since nobody is actually RBing him, he just defaulted to dousing himself?
    It means bus driver acts first, so is NOT RB'd. He is only after using his action... which is basically not RB'd lol. So it's case 1 imo.

    About the replay now. I think we're just confused for nothing... Only thing that happened is bus driver bussing arson and himself, and somewhat causing the game to have a paradox, and lead the game to think the Arsonist had himself as a target, but for a douse (since he doesn't target other people for ignite).
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

  11. #11

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    It means bus driver acts first, so is NOT RB'd. He is only after using his action... which is basically not RB'd lol. So it's case 1 imo.

    About the replay now. I think we're just confused for nothing... Only thing that happened is bus driver bussing arson and himself, and somewhat causing the game to have a paradox, and lead the game to think the Arsonist had himself as a target, but for a douse (since he doesn't target other people for ignite).
    It does not say that bd/witch happens first and then escort/consort. It says they happen at same time with some amount of "cycles" to prevent paradoxes.
    I think the community would greatly benefit from hearing how exactly this night happened
    Last edited by aamirus; December 27th, 2017 at 01:47 AM.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  12. #12

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    It does not say that bd/witch happens first and then escort/consort. It says they happen at same time with some amount of "cycles" to prevent paradoxes.
    I think the community would greatly benefit from hearing how exactly this night happened
    ... @Cryptonic , I feel like it's the kind of things you know. Could you please tell us what happened that night, since it's so important for the community :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

  13. #13

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    ... @Cryptonic , I feel like it's the kind of things you know. Could you please tell us what happened that night, since it's so important for the community :P
    Ok it's not that important I just want to know the exact operations that happen! I'm a programming nerd sorry!
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  14. #14

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Ok it's not that important I just want to know the exact operations that happen! I'm a programming nerd sorry!
    XD I understand pretty well, I love knowing this kind of things too! But it's just funny that you say the community would greatly benefit from knowing what happened in a weird paradoxal night, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

  15. #15

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    XD I understand pretty well, I love knowing this kind of things too! But it's just funny that you say the community would greatly benefit from knowing what happened in a weird paradoxal night, lol.
    it was 3am, I was drunk
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  16. #16

    Re: Arsonist dousing instead of burning.

    issa bug.
    Arsonist should've been roleblocked to avoid paradox, and cycle should've ended there.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  17. #17

 

 

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