S-FM 233: 8-2-2

[Scvmurderer]

Less than six hours left.

Dear regulars, is there a rule of thumb about when the d1 lynch should happen? Is activity coming soon?

I need so much coffee but damn. I start to worry we either don't lynch or lynch scvmurderer or RLVG (both "meh" lynchs atm, scv still has a chance to speak up)

I'm disappointed you don't consider hybrid a scum with his shitposting. Tell me please exactly your concerns about me and I'll see if I can counterpoint or give explanations. However I'm off my break at work now and won't be able to check in for a few hours again

[Hybrid]

I'm disappointed you don't consider hybrid a scum with his shitposting. Tell me please exactly your concerns about me and I'll see if I can counterpoint or give explanations. However I'm off my break at work now and won't be able to check in for a few hours again

ok shush you now

-vote Nawa

tell everything you know and tell everything you assume now

[Hybrid]

We've kinda been having problems cause RLVG afking @Nawa

[PIayer]

We've kinda been having problems cause RLVG afking @Nawa

that's true

Scvmurderer, please refer to my soon incoming wall of text for reasonings

[PIayer]

Finally!

Spoiler : BOOOOOM :

Prelude/ Getting facts right. Everything we build, we build on what we do know for sure. Don't forget about the setup please. Jester is a possibility. Jailor is a possibility. Vet is a possibility. And so on. We know little, and there is a TON of interpretation & mindgames going on, but it helps to stick to what we DO know.


I/About People, or "The Stuff Everyone Wants", now updated with colors and bullshit %'s to fully entertain your mind!

1/ Those Who Seems To Care About Town

SJ: Even Hybrid knows that, we love you for leading town. Repeating myself at this point but for me it's either pro Town or mastermind DH, and I will give rationales against the mastermind tinfoil theories (cf part III). Odds for fun: 86% Town. 9(!)% Pro Exec building TON of town cred to win D2, but so useful atm it's town-aligned Exec, the kind of continue to lead town like a boss if win D2 (Ive seen it happen several times on the mod, Mafia always want to kill those who make the most sense, yet wasting a night kill just to STFU the Exec who already won, basically that's gg for town at this point). Still, town should remember that part if SJ start to jester in the future. 4% Lover blind-siding with Town D1 because why not, would be game theory optimum. 1% Mastermind Triad/Neutral Evil tinfoil theories (don't even)

xramza: You did meaningful contributions that made sense, got a strong Town vibe from you from the start. While this could well be acting (you did not even vote afterall), so far most of your contributions felt like you were trying to make sense. So 59% Town 41% Else atm. Would be interested reading more from you.

Otakudeepweb: Because your contributions are actually making sense and I feel you paid attention to what has been said, you're one of the strongest town lean I've got atm. 71% Town, 29% Idk. Bold statement considering I don't know how you play, but as things objectively are atm, I liked the fact you tried to put your bit of reasoning into the shitstorm, while you could have chosen to just play dumb with Hybrid/MM/Scvchoochoo and get away with it. So far I respect that.

MM: I could put a wall of quote off you but TDL did it already, that's enough tunnel imo. I maintain you're acting overall townish, you seem to really try to contribute, maybe you try too hard, maybe not. For now I believe not. 69% Town, 26% Neutral Benign, 5% Neut evil/Triad (seems very unlikely atm) so safe D1 by my book.


2/ Those I Don't Know

Dr Unknown & mrtrophywife: It's good to see you started to help town. Gut feeling is I need to read more of you both. For exemple, could you list every player in the game and make some commentary on how do you feel about each? We need to hear more from you before nightfall. Even if you just say "I don't know about most", you doing that will actually help the town. So please. 100% idk yet

TDL: Got a slight town vibe from the effort in post #489, nice post in itself, but doesn't explain the tunneling, if you put that much work into MM you could surely share thoughts about the other players. Exec also comes to mind but it would be too obvious imo considering SJ respecting him and me respecting SJ. So 35% Town 65% Else atm, need to keep posting to gain town points.

Hybrid: Had a wall of quote but would add lenght for nothing, so long story short, if it's Triad play and he manages to survive days with this rate of shitpost I'll /bow. My mind would be blown. A bit toxic to town but not enough to lynch d1 imo. Atm for fun: 30% Jester, 28% any other Neutral, 23% Town setting up some meta play on a level I can't understand (Medic flip would be hilarous imo, as atm there is almost zero chance Maf will target him at night) 19% Triad "too scmumy to scum, also im obv jester rofl", still a decent possibility but not over 19% imo

Mesk: totally unreadeable but well, I believe you have lynch immunity D1 anyway. Didn't contribute much (less than other games I've seen with you in bragging Citizen) but still. Your vote is okay to me imo, so is the play with Hybrid. Might be biased but atm 98% unreadeable, 2% DH mastermind tinfoil. Still +1 kudo for the iso help

3/ Current lynchpool

RLVG still contributed the least. Not knowing how hard is his RL issue is actually hintering us. If he just can't play it's wasted pressure, but regarding the game and not any meta consideration, the reason for being in lynchpool is obvious

Scvmurderer: Contributions resume to one-liners and voting the obvious. Scum lean by my book atm, basically saying "I'm here I try to help" but not making sense, not speaking his mind. You better give us something better or I'll consider switch my vote to you, Mesk & Hybrid posts may not make any sense but I can see sense in voting you atm.



II/ About dreams, or "Meta, macro, and concrete: layers seen by an outsider"

First part was about people. Now I wanted to discuss few things about the game itself. I'll do my best to make it short. Perhaps I'm not the only one to think about those things, so I think it may be worth my time.
1/ "Meta" is vague
There shouldn't be meta in Mafia, ideally we should all be entierely new persons at the beginning of each game. I am an entierely new person, Dr Unknown too. Almost everybody else seems to have history. Felt the need to write about this because I picked up somewhere a thing about "Hybrid is setting up his meta", or was it about SJ, it doesn't matter anyway.
Obviously it's not an ideal world, there IS a meta in any game, sometimes very simple (tic tac toe I start I win GG) sometimes very deep, especially in games involving player's own personality (I think about Poker but also of the game we're playing) and the meta can complexify almost endlessly thanks to game theory followed by wifom ("I know that he knows that I know, so" type of reasonings)
Can't avoid the fact you regulars have your own meta. And personal meta is kinda different. Honestly idk how much breaks the game if we get to the point where we must account with probabilities like "He may be acting like this so the next time he plays like this we won't see it coming", "setting up the future" stuff.
For the sake of my mental health I won't go deeper in that kind of considerations. If anything,I believe it draw us away from the real stuff: the game itself. I think even for regulars, it would be hard to deal with this kind of meta play, so imagine us newcomers.

I'm sure there are already things we aren't able to read between the lines, and that's fine, but it would be kind of you, or at least the town-aligned lot of you, to point out any meta related thing you though could be relevant but could not be seen or thought by newcomers. As we can't get away from meta, and don't need to as it's actually adding layers and flavor. But only thing we care about in the end is: okay I read the game, now is there informations relevant to this game anywhere else?

In short, I'm not asking you guys to share meta reads of anything or anyone, just to all to keep in mind there is different levels of play in this game atm and sometimes a little explaination could help to narrow the gap, should someone feel didactic. Afterall clarity profits town, I believe we can at least agree on this.



III/ About tinfoils and game theory, or "TL;DR is so scummy of a concept, don't wait for it"

Evoqued earlier "DH tinfoil theories", I'll try to go get straight to the point. (Yes I'll try!)

We're playing an incomplete information game. It should be "very incomplete", as I say in prelude the only thing known for sure is Setup. Let's put meta aside for a moment, and keep two examples in mind. Me and SJ (<3), and Mesk & Hybrid couple.
I know very little of SJ, SJ know next to nothing about me (started gathering bits already tho =)). I think he spotted a somewhat analytic mind in the gamelaunch thread and was genuine in his reasons voting me earlier. I believe he was right to be wary typically because ke knows this game is about "very incomplete" information and every bit of info is helping while building intrepretations. This game and especially d1 is all about the story we told each other and our interpretation on each story, said by who and how. Obviously there is more to know than just the setup, you got to put reads on people and try to build an historic, watching for patterns, at two levels at least: in and out of the game. In the game it's kinda straightworward, out of the game is more tricky. It's where regular players will seek their edge, in a very similar fashion to poker: regulars knows their game theory, it's more of less the same for all so when fighting between each other they got to be creative, and to do that properly they first need history of their opponents.
Return on topic: everything we know so far, are assumptions. And the setup. But everything else is uncertain. SJ could be DH. Hybrid could be derp cop or DH or whatever. Mesk could be DH or whatever. I could be DH or whatever. If you start humble and tell yourself everybody is a good player, which you should when you have little to none info on people and which SJ actually did, you got to be paranoïd. Don't even need to be town to be paranoïd atm, as lovers & Triad are in the dark atm. It's the only reasonable stance: accepting everything is just stories and interpretation.

While cautiousness is fair from a rational pov, paranoïa pushed too hard it's actually hindering reason. Reason need at least a tiny bit of solid ground to start building meaningful ideas. That's why I purposely chose to put the meta aside and judge people mostly on things that seems objective to me: what relates to the game DIRECTLY. That's the setup. The fact reasonable discussion is helping town. The fact deception is generally hurting town even if there's advanced plays with town deception.
That's what was behind my reasoning for poking afk/least contributors. Also for poking people who made little to no sense, or acting deceptive in some way (our good Hybrid). And for taking meaningful contribution at "near face value".
Because now's what matters. Not the last game, not the next one. Not even day two. This is day one, so reasonable contributors must be given town cred, I see little reason why we should not. And that's whatever their alignment.
Helz in the guide section summed it up far better than me: rationales are the prime stuff we're looking after here. That's what's helping town. So please keep that fact in mind and leave aside the tinfoils theories. "Mastermind DH" is definitely possible, yes, but how good is focusing on such far away possibility when it's actually D1, DH doesn't even know his partner.

Focus on what is instead of what could be! Tomorrow will be another day, when for sure quotes will be pulled of D1. In fact quotes will be pulled of D1 the whole game, so present matters. And it's simple. People making discussion happen are the one helping. Now, and after. Real alignment is irrelevant atm, only Host has perfect information about who's who. What we're after is good behavior, that's the basis you people are judged on for now. Obv it's still open to interpretation, but far more reasonable than jumping on every tinfoil theory there is.

Is there is a mastermind, by definition we won't know it until it's too late anyway.
So to finish: really don't forget words aren't the only thing making sense here. Everything's up to interpretation. Words, but also lack of words, votes, picked quotes etc.
Yeah there is shitpost, yeah there is deception, but again, obviously everyone will be trying to appear town-aligned for now, by differents ways. All I'm saying is, posting feel lists and sharing our thoughts are the best thing we can do for town atm.

So Scvmurderer don't be surprised I want to hear far more from you. Voted you because it seemed like you didn't really paid attention to what has been said, and it's slightly scummy to tempo the day and give the town nothing but "Hybrid is scummy."

WE ALL GOT THAT, GO ON ABOUT THE OTHERS

[xramza]

On mobile. Can't see vote count. Will be willing to change my vote to Scv if he's the only plausible lynch, but even after reading defense I like where my vote is.

Want to hear from RLVG replacement especially, a removal of this moot point could change the scope of what will happen

[SuperJack]

Finally!

Spoiler : BOOOOOM :

Prelude/ Getting facts right. Everything we build, we build on what we do know for sure. Don't forget about the setup please. Jester is a possibility. Jailor is a possibility. Vet is a possibility. And so on. We know little, and there is a TON of interpretation & mindgames going on, but it helps to stick to what we DO know.


I/About People, or "The Stuff Everyone Wants", now updated with colors and bullshit %'s to fully entertain your mind!

1/ Those Who Seems To Care About Town

SJ: Even Hybrid knows that, we love you for leading town. Repeating myself at this point but for me it's either pro Town or mastermind DH, and I will give rationales against the mastermind tinfoil theories (cf part III). Odds for fun: 86% Town. 9(!)% Pro Exec building TON of town cred to win D2, but so useful atm it's town-aligned Exec, the kind of continue to lead town like a boss if win D2 (Ive seen it happen several times on the mod, Mafia always want to kill those who make the most sense, yet wasting a night kill just to STFU the Exec who already won, basically that's gg for town at this point). Still, town should remember that part if SJ start to jester in the future. 4% Lover blind-siding with Town D1 because why not, would be game theory optimum. 1% Mastermind Triad/Neutral Evil tinfoil theories (don't even)

xramza: You did meaningful contributions that made sense, got a strong Town vibe from you from the start. While this could well be acting (you did not even vote afterall), so far most of your contributions felt like you were trying to make sense. So 59% Town 41% Else atm. Would be interested reading more from you.

Otakudeepweb: Because your contributions are actually making sense and I feel you paid attention to what has been said, you're one of the strongest town lean I've got atm. 71% Town, 29% Idk. Bold statement considering I don't know how you play, but as things objectively are atm, I liked the fact you tried to put your bit of reasoning into the shitstorm, while you could have chosen to just play dumb with Hybrid/MM/Scvchoochoo and get away with it. So far I respect that.

MM: I could put a wall of quote off you but TDL did it already, that's enough tunnel imo. I maintain you're acting overall townish, you seem to really try to contribute, maybe you try too hard, maybe not. For now I believe not. 69% Town, 26% Neutral Benign, 5% Neut evil/Triad (seems very unlikely atm) so safe D1 by my book.


2/ Those I Don't Know

Dr Unknown & mrtrophywife: It's good to see you started to help town. Gut feeling is I need to read more of you both. For exemple, could you list every player in the game and make some commentary on how do you feel about each? We need to hear more from you before nightfall. Even if you just say "I don't know about most", you doing that will actually help the town. So please. 100% idk yet

TDL: Got a slight town vibe from the effort in post #489, nice post in itself, but doesn't explain the tunneling, if you put that much work into MM you could surely share thoughts about the other players. Exec also comes to mind but it would be too obvious imo considering SJ respecting him and me respecting SJ. So 35% Town 65% Else atm, need to keep posting to gain town points.

Hybrid: Had a wall of quote but would add lenght for nothing, so long story short, if it's Triad play and he manages to survive days with this rate of shitpost I'll /bow. My mind would be blown. A bit toxic to town but not enough to lynch d1 imo. Atm for fun: 30% Jester, 28% any other Neutral, 23% Town setting up some meta play on a level I can't understand (Medic flip would be hilarous imo, as atm there is almost zero chance Maf will target him at night) 19% Triad "too scmumy to scum, also im obv jester rofl", still a decent possibility but not over 19% imo

Mesk: totally unreadeable but well, I believe you have lynch immunity D1 anyway. Didn't contribute much (less than other games I've seen with you in bragging Citizen) but still. Your vote is okay to me imo, so is the play with Hybrid. Might be biased but atm 98% unreadeable, 2% DH mastermind tinfoil. Still +1 kudo for the iso help

3/ Current lynchpool

RLVG still contributed the least. Not knowing how hard is his RL issue is actually hintering us. If he just can't play it's wasted pressure, but regarding the game and not any meta consideration, the reason for being in lynchpool is obvious

Scvmurderer: Contributions resume to one-liners and voting the obvious. Scum lean by my book atm, basically saying "I'm here I try to help" but not making sense, not speaking his mind. You better give us something better or I'll consider switch my vote to you, Mesk & Hybrid posts may not make any sense but I can see sense in voting you atm.



II/ About dreams, or "Meta, macro, and concrete: layers seen by an outsider"

First part was about people. Now I wanted to discuss few things about the game itself. I'll do my best to make it short. Perhaps I'm not the only one to think about those things, so I think it may be worth my time.
1/ "Meta" is vague
There shouldn't be meta in Mafia, ideally we should all be entierely new persons at the beginning of each game. I am an entierely new person, Dr Unknown too. Almost everybody else seems to have history. Felt the need to write about this because I picked up somewhere a thing about "Hybrid is setting up his meta", or was it about SJ, it doesn't matter anyway.
Obviously it's not an ideal world, there IS a meta in any game, sometimes very simple (tic tac toe I start I win GG) sometimes very deep, especially in games involving player's own personality (I think about Poker but also of the game we're playing) and the meta can complexify almost endlessly thanks to game theory followed by wifom ("I know that he knows that I know, so" type of reasonings)
Can't avoid the fact you regulars have your own meta. And personal meta is kinda different. Honestly idk how much breaks the game if we get to the point where we must account with probabilities like "He may be acting like this so the next time he plays like this we won't see it coming", "setting up the future" stuff.
For the sake of my mental health I won't go deeper in that kind of considerations. If anything,I believe it draw us away from the real stuff: the game itself. I think even for regulars, it would be hard to deal with this kind of meta play, so imagine us newcomers.

I'm sure there are already things we aren't able to read between the lines, and that's fine, but it would be kind of you, or at least the town-aligned lot of you, to point out any meta related thing you though could be relevant but could not be seen or thought by newcomers. As we can't get away from meta, and don't need to as it's actually adding layers and flavor. But only thing we care about in the end is: okay I read the game, now is there informations relevant to this game anywhere else?

In short, I'm not asking you guys to share meta reads of anything or anyone, just to all to keep in mind there is different levels of play in this game atm and sometimes a little explaination could help to narrow the gap, should someone feel didactic. Afterall clarity profits town, I believe we can at least agree on this.



III/ About tinfoils and game theory, or "TL;DR is so scummy of a concept, don't wait for it"

Evoqued earlier "DH tinfoil theories", I'll try to go get straight to the point. (Yes I'll try!)

We're playing an incomplete information game. It should be "very incomplete", as I say in prelude the only thing known for sure is Setup. Let's put meta aside for a moment, and keep two examples in mind. Me and SJ (<3), and Mesk & Hybrid couple.
I know very little of SJ, SJ know next to nothing about me (started gathering bits already tho =)). I think he spotted a somewhat analytic mind in the gamelaunch thread and was genuine in his reasons voting me earlier. I believe he was right to be wary typically because ke knows this game is about "very incomplete" information and every bit of info is helping while building intrepretations. This game and especially d1 is all about the story we told each other and our interpretation on each story, said by who and how. Obviously there is more to know than just the setup, you got to put reads on people and try to build an historic, watching for patterns, at two levels at least: in and out of the game. In the game it's kinda straightworward, out of the game is more tricky. It's where regular players will seek their edge, in a very similar fashion to poker: regulars knows their game theory, it's more of less the same for all so when fighting between each other they got to be creative, and to do that properly they first need history of their opponents.
Return on topic: everything we know so far, are assumptions. And the setup. But everything else is uncertain. SJ could be DH. Hybrid could be derp cop or DH or whatever. Mesk could be DH or whatever. I could be DH or whatever. If you start humble and tell yourself everybody is a good player, which you should when you have little to none info on people and which SJ actually did, you got to be paranoïd. Don't even need to be town to be paranoïd atm, as lovers & Triad are in the dark atm. It's the only reasonable stance: accepting everything is just stories and interpretation.

While cautiousness is fair from a rational pov, paranoïa pushed too hard it's actually hindering reason. Reason need at least a tiny bit of solid ground to start building meaningful ideas. That's why I purposely chose to put the meta aside and judge people mostly on things that seems objective to me: what relates to the game DIRECTLY. That's the setup. The fact reasonable discussion is helping town. The fact deception is generally hurting town even if there's advanced plays with town deception.
That's what was behind my reasoning for poking afk/least contributors. Also for poking people who made little to no sense, or acting deceptive in some way (our good Hybrid). And for taking meaningful contribution at "near face value".
Because now's what matters. Not the last game, not the next one. Not even day two. This is day one, so reasonable contributors must be given town cred, I see little reason why we should not. And that's whatever their alignment.
Helz in the guide section summed it up far better than me: rationales are the prime stuff we're looking after here. That's what's helping town. So please keep that fact in mind and leave aside the tinfoils theories. "Mastermind DH" is definitely possible, yes, but how good is focusing on such far away possibility when it's actually D1, DH doesn't even know his partner.

Focus on what is instead of what could be! Tomorrow will be another day, when for sure quotes will be pulled of D1. In fact quotes will be pulled of D1 the whole game, so present matters. And it's simple. People making discussion happen are the one helping. Now, and after. Real alignment is irrelevant atm, only Host has perfect information about who's who. What we're after is good behavior, that's the basis you people are judged on for now. Obv it's still open to interpretation, but far more reasonable than jumping on every tinfoil theory there is.

Is there is a mastermind, by definition we won't know it until it's too late anyway.
So to finish: really don't forget words aren't the only thing making sense here. Everything's up to interpretation. Words, but also lack of words, votes, picked quotes etc.
Yeah there is shitpost, yeah there is deception, but again, obviously everyone will be trying to appear town-aligned for now, by differents ways. All I'm saying is, posting feel lists and sharing our thoughts are the best thing we can do for town atm.

So Scvmurderer don't be surprised I want to hear far more from you. Voted you because it seemed like you didn't really paid attention to what has been said, and it's slightly scummy to tempo the day and give the town nothing but "Hybrid is scummy."

WE ALL GOT THAT, GO ON ABOUT THE OTHERS

Such art, such beauty. And I am indeed a fan of the tin foil hat.
walter.jpg
Few issues I have though.
RLVG is no longer in the lynch pool dude to his replacement. And I fear there isn't enough time to get anything out of the replacement.
TDL I respect. But his Tunnels have been very limiting to what i can pick out of it, it's fine making a tunnel but there Is no interaction, it's infact mostly avoided. I would deem him lynchpool worthy.
Also Mesk should be deemed Lynchpool worthy in the category "there isn't anyone scummy enough yet so policy lynch)
Otakudeepweb I would need to dog deeper, he can make it so he is Obiviois town but I've not had that tell yet. So I haven't got enough read.
Other players I will probably need a D2 too fairley analyze.

[xramza]

Finally!

Spoiler : BOOOOOM :

Prelude/ Getting facts right. Everything we build, we build on what we do know for sure. Don't forget about the setup please. Jester is a possibility. Jailor is a possibility. Vet is a possibility. And so on. We know little, and there is a TON of interpretation & mindgames going on, but it helps to stick to what we DO know.


I/About People, or "The Stuff Everyone Wants", now updated with colors and bullshit %'s to fully entertain your mind!

1/ Those Who Seems To Care About Town

SJ: Even Hybrid knows that, we love you for leading town. Repeating myself at this point but for me it's either pro Town or mastermind DH, and I will give rationales against the mastermind tinfoil theories (cf part III). Odds for fun: 86% Town. 9(!)% Pro Exec building TON of town cred to win D2, but so useful atm it's town-aligned Exec, the kind of continue to lead town like a boss if win D2 (Ive seen it happen several times on the mod, Mafia always want to kill those who make the most sense, yet wasting a night kill just to STFU the Exec who already won, basically that's gg for town at this point). Still, town should remember that part if SJ start to jester in the future. 4% Lover blind-siding with Town D1 because why not, would be game theory optimum. 1% Mastermind Triad/Neutral Evil tinfoil theories (don't even)

xramza: You did meaningful contributions that made sense, got a strong Town vibe from you from the start. While this could well be acting (you did not even vote afterall), so far most of your contributions felt like you were trying to make sense. So 59% Town 41% Else atm. Would be interested reading more from you.

Otakudeepweb: Because your contributions are actually making sense and I feel you paid attention to what has been said, you're one of the strongest town lean I've got atm. 71% Town, 29% Idk. Bold statement considering I don't know how you play, but as things objectively are atm, I liked the fact you tried to put your bit of reasoning into the shitstorm, while you could have chosen to just play dumb with Hybrid/MM/Scvchoochoo and get away with it. So far I respect that.

MM: I could put a wall of quote off you but TDL did it already, that's enough tunnel imo. I maintain you're acting overall townish, you seem to really try to contribute, maybe you try too hard, maybe not. For now I believe not. 69% Town, 26% Neutral Benign, 5% Neut evil/Triad (seems very unlikely atm) so safe D1 by my book.


2/ Those I Don't Know

Dr Unknown & mrtrophywife: It's good to see you started to help town. Gut feeling is I need to read more of you both. For exemple, could you list every player in the game and make some commentary on how do you feel about each? We need to hear more from you before nightfall. Even if you just say "I don't know about most", you doing that will actually help the town. So please. 100% idk yet

TDL: Got a slight town vibe from the effort in post #489, nice post in itself, but doesn't explain the tunneling, if you put that much work into MM you could surely share thoughts about the other players. Exec also comes to mind but it would be too obvious imo considering SJ respecting him and me respecting SJ. So 35% Town 65% Else atm, need to keep posting to gain town points.

Hybrid: Had a wall of quote but would add lenght for nothing, so long story short, if it's Triad play and he manages to survive days with this rate of shitpost I'll /bow. My mind would be blown. A bit toxic to town but not enough to lynch d1 imo. Atm for fun: 30% Jester, 28% any other Neutral, 23% Town setting up some meta play on a level I can't understand (Medic flip would be hilarous imo, as atm there is almost zero chance Maf will target him at night) 19% Triad "too scmumy to scum, also im obv jester rofl", still a decent possibility but not over 19% imo

Mesk: totally unreadeable but well, I believe you have lynch immunity D1 anyway. Didn't contribute much (less than other games I've seen with you in bragging Citizen) but still. Your vote is okay to me imo, so is the play with Hybrid. Might be biased but atm 98% unreadeable, 2% DH mastermind tinfoil. Still +1 kudo for the iso help

3/ Current lynchpool

RLVG still contributed the least. Not knowing how hard is his RL issue is actually hintering us. If he just can't play it's wasted pressure, but regarding the game and not any meta consideration, the reason for being in lynchpool is obvious

Scvmurderer: Contributions resume to one-liners and voting the obvious. Scum lean by my book atm, basically saying "I'm here I try to help" but not making sense, not speaking his mind. You better give us something better or I'll consider switch my vote to you, Mesk & Hybrid posts may not make any sense but I can see sense in voting you atm.



II/ About dreams, or "Meta, macro, and concrete: layers seen by an outsider"

First part was about people. Now I wanted to discuss few things about the game itself. I'll do my best to make it short. Perhaps I'm not the only one to think about those things, so I think it may be worth my time.
1/ "Meta" is vague
There shouldn't be meta in Mafia, ideally we should all be entierely new persons at the beginning of each game. I am an entierely new person, Dr Unknown too. Almost everybody else seems to have history. Felt the need to write about this because I picked up somewhere a thing about "Hybrid is setting up his meta", or was it about SJ, it doesn't matter anyway.
Obviously it's not an ideal world, there IS a meta in any game, sometimes very simple (tic tac toe I start I win GG) sometimes very deep, especially in games involving player's own personality (I think about Poker but also of the game we're playing) and the meta can complexify almost endlessly thanks to game theory followed by wifom ("I know that he knows that I know, so" type of reasonings)
Can't avoid the fact you regulars have your own meta. And personal meta is kinda different. Honestly idk how much breaks the game if we get to the point where we must account with probabilities like "He may be acting like this so the next time he plays like this we won't see it coming", "setting up the future" stuff.
For the sake of my mental health I won't go deeper in that kind of considerations. If anything,I believe it draw us away from the real stuff: the game itself. I think even for regulars, it would be hard to deal with this kind of meta play, so imagine us newcomers.

I'm sure there are already things we aren't able to read between the lines, and that's fine, but it would be kind of you, or at least the town-aligned lot of you, to point out any meta related thing you though could be relevant but could not be seen or thought by newcomers. As we can't get away from meta, and don't need to as it's actually adding layers and flavor. But only thing we care about in the end is: okay I read the game, now is there informations relevant to this game anywhere else?

In short, I'm not asking you guys to share meta reads of anything or anyone, just to all to keep in mind there is different levels of play in this game atm and sometimes a little explaination could help to narrow the gap, should someone feel didactic. Afterall clarity profits town, I believe we can at least agree on this.



III/ About tinfoils and game theory, or "TL;DR is so scummy of a concept, don't wait for it"

Evoqued earlier "DH tinfoil theories", I'll try to go get straight to the point. (Yes I'll try!)

We're playing an incomplete information game. It should be "very incomplete", as I say in prelude the only thing known for sure is Setup. Let's put meta aside for a moment, and keep two examples in mind. Me and SJ (<3), and Mesk & Hybrid couple.
I know very little of SJ, SJ know next to nothing about me (started gathering bits already tho =)). I think he spotted a somewhat analytic mind in the gamelaunch thread and was genuine in his reasons voting me earlier. I believe he was right to be wary typically because ke knows this game is about "very incomplete" information and every bit of info is helping while building intrepretations. This game and especially d1 is all about the story we told each other and our interpretation on each story, said by who and how. Obviously there is more to know than just the setup, you got to put reads on people and try to build an historic, watching for patterns, at two levels at least: in and out of the game. In the game it's kinda straightworward, out of the game is more tricky. It's where regular players will seek their edge, in a very similar fashion to poker: regulars knows their game theory, it's more of less the same for all so when fighting between each other they got to be creative, and to do that properly they first need history of their opponents.
Return on topic: everything we know so far, are assumptions. And the setup. But everything else is uncertain. SJ could be DH. Hybrid could be derp cop or DH or whatever. Mesk could be DH or whatever. I could be DH or whatever. If you start humble and tell yourself everybody is a good player, which you should when you have little to none info on people and which SJ actually did, you got to be paranoïd. Don't even need to be town to be paranoïd atm, as lovers & Triad are in the dark atm. It's the only reasonable stance: accepting everything is just stories and interpretation.

While cautiousness is fair from a rational pov, paranoïa pushed too hard it's actually hindering reason. Reason need at least a tiny bit of solid ground to start building meaningful ideas. That's why I purposely chose to put the meta aside and judge people mostly on things that seems objective to me: what relates to the game DIRECTLY. That's the setup. The fact reasonable discussion is helping town. The fact deception is generally hurting town even if there's advanced plays with town deception.
That's what was behind my reasoning for poking afk/least contributors. Also for poking people who made little to no sense, or acting deceptive in some way (our good Hybrid). And for taking meaningful contribution at "near face value".
Because now's what matters. Not the last game, not the next one. Not even day two. This is day one, so reasonable contributors must be given town cred, I see little reason why we should not. And that's whatever their alignment.
Helz in the guide section summed it up far better than me: rationales are the prime stuff we're looking after here. That's what's helping town. So please keep that fact in mind and leave aside the tinfoils theories. "Mastermind DH" is definitely possible, yes, but how good is focusing on such far away possibility when it's actually D1, DH doesn't even know his partner.

Focus on what is instead of what could be! Tomorrow will be another day, when for sure quotes will be pulled of D1. In fact quotes will be pulled of D1 the whole game, so present matters. And it's simple. People making discussion happen are the one helping. Now, and after. Real alignment is irrelevant atm, only Host has perfect information about who's who. What we're after is good behavior, that's the basis you people are judged on for now. Obv it's still open to interpretation, but far more reasonable than jumping on every tinfoil theory there is.

Is there is a mastermind, by definition we won't know it until it's too late anyway.
So to finish: really don't forget words aren't the only thing making sense here. Everything's up to interpretation. Words, but also lack of words, votes, picked quotes etc.
Yeah there is shitpost, yeah there is deception, but again, obviously everyone will be trying to appear town-aligned for now, by differents ways. All I'm saying is, posting feel lists and sharing our thoughts are the best thing we can do for town atm.

So Scvmurderer don't be surprised I want to hear far more from you. Voted you because it seemed like you didn't really paid attention to what has been said, and it's slightly scummy to tempo the day and give the town nothing but "Hybrid is scummy."

WE ALL GOT THAT, GO ON ABOUT THE OTHERS

Much love. Surprising that you're new, I don't have much meta on anyone here either. I can agree with either in your lynch pool.

[Hybrid]

Much love. Surprising that you're new, I don't have much meta on anyone here either. I can agree with either in your lynch pool.

inb4 he s scum lol

[PIayer]

Well, wrote RLGV part before host update. I unvoted him a while ago, I belive you should do the same. We can't do shit but wait for Nawa on this matter
TDL I still want to believe he will pop in and react, but if he does not you are indeed right
Mesk I thought was lynch immune because of vagina?

So far I trust otaku's reasonings, yes looks like obvious town but aren't we too? Tho I agree we haven't got enough

upd:

Much love. Surprising that you're new, I don't have much meta on anyone here either. I can agree with either in your lynch pool.

=)

@Hybrid : it's amusing, you saying that

[Hybrid]

I really should stop eating sunflower seeds, or i am going to die cause of too much salt lol (in a real way)

[PIayer]

I'm happy you're here to vote Hybrid.

Drink water for your health please. It counters salt =)

[TheDarkestLight]

As I said in my wall. I disagree with day one lynches. People say they might be town controlled kills, but on day one they are not. Anyone can be scum just as easily as they could be town, and I put heavy doubt on players reading abilities on day one. It almost always comes out with a town dying, and in a game of this number, especially with what I said about the Judge earlier and us potentially getting killed off a day one town lynch, and the possibility of us having a Jailor and there being no Kidnapper. I am firmly against any lynches today. The information we gain from it is quite simply not worth it imo.

I support a much more conservative play to put it simply.

[Hybrid]

As I said in my wall. I disagree with day one lynches. People say they might be town controlled kills, but on day one they are not. Anyone can be scum just as easily as they could be town, and I put heavy doubt on players reading abilities on day one. It almost always comes out with a town dying, and in a game of this number, especially with what I said about the Judge earlier and us potentially getting killed off a day one town lynch, and the possibility of us having a Jailor and there being no Kidnapper. I am firmly against any lynches today. The information we gain from it is quite simply not worth it imo.

I support a much more conservative play to put it simply.

I m against no-d1-lynch unless it's no mafia kill save. Town may have 1 mislynch chance in every setupthat includes mafia killing. So if we were to have suspicous people (such as nawa cuz he didnt speak much and scvmurderer cause of the way he votes as well as the way he talks) we may lynch them.

[Hybrid]

I'm happy you're here to vote Hybrid.

Drink water for your health please. It counters salt =)

maybe that s the reason why i get thristy twice as much nowadays lol

[TheDarkestLight]

I m against no-d1-lynch unless it's no mafia kill save. Town may have 1 mislynch chance in every setupthat includes mafia killing. So if we were to have suspicous people (such as nawa cuz he didnt speak much and scvmurderer cause of the way he votes as well as the way he talks) we may lynch them.

Not necessarily. We could get screwed if we lack a Vigilante and the neutral evil is Judge.

We lose a town today, another tonight, Judge does his thing tomorrow between two townies, another town dies that night, then the next day its 4v2v1v1, and it comes down to the neutral benign. And unless it's a lover sided with the town, in my experience neutrals side with the Mafia more often than not.

[Hybrid]

Not necessarily. We could get screwed if we lack a Vigilante and the neutral evil is Judge.

We lose a town today, another tonight, Judge does his thing tomorrow between two townies, another town dies that night, then the next day its 4v2v1v1, and it comes down to the neutral benign. And unless it's a lover sided with the town, in my experience neutrals side with the Mafia more often than not.

What if mayor survives? it s like 10% chance to that thing to happen imo

[SuperJack]

As I said in my wall. I disagree with day one lynches. People say they might be town controlled kills, but on day one they are not. Anyone can be scum just as easily as they could be town, and I put heavy doubt on players reading abilities on day one. It almost always comes out with a town dying, and in a game of this number, especially with what I said about the Judge earlier and us potentially getting killed off a day one town lynch, and the possibility of us having a Jailor and there being no Kidnapper. I am firmly against any lynches today. The information we gain from it is quite simply not worth it imo.

I support a much more conservative play to put it simply.

Problem is, if there is no threat of lynched, there is no pressure, without pressure there can not be scum hunting.
Without scum hunting day 1 is basically a glorified pre-game chat.

Jailors need information to go from, doctors need people to protect, invest roles need clues to follow.

If you reject day1 lynch. You make night 1 random. And day 2 is day 1.

[mrtrophywife]

Interestin-. Two sides of the isle on the d1 Lynch. I understand your point Super almost like it's a necessary evil, even if we Lynch a town we have information that may carry us into a stronger d2 like you said. Although it is a gamble, like TDL is saying. Are we wiling to take the risk of a scv/ other scum leaning Lynch? We don't have much to go off of besides tells and conspiracies, so Im going to stay hesitant with my votes- although my opinion can certainly be swayed if something critical happens.

Currently 100% on moble, have mercy.

[SuperJack]

-vote TheDarkestLight

A no lynch stance in this game is anti-town

[TheDarkestLight]

Problem is, if there is no threat of lynched, there is no pressure, without pressure there can not be scum hunting.
Without scum hunting day 1 is basically a glorified pre-game chat.

Jailors need information to go from, doctors need people to protect, invest roles need clues to follow.

If you reject day1 lynch. You make night 1 random. And day 2 is day 1.

There is plenty of pressure. I put this forward later into the day for that specific reason. Not to mention the scum have a potential jailor to fear. Day one lynches are controlled by scum.

[TheDarkestLight]

-vote TheDarkestLight

A no lynch stance in this game is anti-town

"He doesn't agree with me. He must be scum." K den.

[SuperJack]

There is plenty of pressure. I put this forward later into the day for that specific reason. Not to mention the scum have a potential jailor to fear. Day one lynches are controlled by scum.

Precisely why they are important. Easier to catch them.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

OMGUS is real. Watch him be scum as he dies.

Who exactly? Me? Scvmurderer? Otakud? Btw, I didn't say that anyone was scum there lol. No OMGUS.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Err... Hybrid? You voted Nawa. Could you please go back at the opening post? There's no Nawa in the game xD

[SuperJack]

"He doesn't agree with me. He must be scum." K den.

If people are not on the same wavelength of me I am going to suspect them.

[Gyrlander]

Nawa replaces RLVG.

@Nawa

[Marshmallow Marshall]

WHAT?! HYBRID IT WAS YOU! YOU ARE NOW A SKWIRL!!! THIS IS HERESY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wasn't sure if it was you when I checked the heretic clan last time I did... Miserable Misery....

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Err... Hybrid? You voted Nawa. Could you please go back at the opening post? There's no Nawa in the game xD

Whoops, I guess there's a Nawa welcome nawa

[Marshmallow Marshall]

-vote Scvmurderer

MM do not screw this off, or else i will make you pay for that. Your reads are wrong and confuses town. Stop acting the Such smart Much smart guy, if there were to act like that it d be rlvg sj piayer ramza and TDL would have been like that. I couldn't do much because of your early push, if your early push never had happend we d have scvmurederer lyncherd aka the real scum. You are the one who made me seem like scum and you are the one who s gonna fix that. Or else i will get my payback in other games.

For those who still wonder what I meant by "threats", there you go.

[xramza]

I don't think an anti-lynch standpoint is inherently anti-town, but I think it assumes too many things. For a day 1 lynch to be dangerous, all of what TDL said has to be true - No town killing, Judge not hitting any scum at all, the presence of a judge in the first place, no d1 scum lynch, etc.

I don't absolutely insist that we lynch today but I retain the thought that it's a good idea. From my perspective, especially with only 1 scum KPN, there's some good room for error. I think we're also gathering information if we lynch MM, Scv, TDL, and we're not so much if we lynch Hybrid. Outside of those four seems dangerous to me, and we won't come close to the votes for it anyway.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Player. Do you believe in Time Travel? Or alternate dimensions?

Lol, it's already possible... if we could twist space time. Cough cough.

[PIayer]

I think that a day 1 lynch is still a good idea. With the nature of the setup and a day start the scum are presently lacking coordination.

The whole idea started from page 1 actually, I took it like it was acquired, as it hasn't be seriously challenged until now. But now looking at the votes, there's so little pressure...

TDL, mafia want conservative play the most imo as Jailors, Witch, etc. all those scenarios are uncertain, while nightkill is certain. Saying there will be a medic is even more a gamble.
Fairly week vs the idea of mafia can't know if lynching his mate, and some decent enough leads like himself...


update: SJ my love

[vote]TheDarkestLight[\vote]


Hybrid
Drink and live, really

Also hi MM

[SuperJack]

You slashed the wrong way.

[PIayer]

-vote TheDarkestLight

IM SO TIRED. I feel duty is done for today.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Please don't do this again, colour is very difficult to read

Grey text on black font is worse.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The whole idea started from page 1 actually, I took it like it was acquired, as it hasn't be seriously challenged until now. But now looking at the votes, there's so little pressure...

TDL, mafia want conservative play the most imo as Jailors, Witch, etc. all those scenarios are uncertain, while nightkill is certain. Saying there will be a medic is even more a gamble.
Fairly week vs the idea of mafia can't know if lynching his mate, and some decent enough leads like himself...

Do you mean Mafia don't know each other? In Pulp Fiction game, I was rapist (mafia) and I knew who was who in my role card.
update: SJ my love

[vote]TheDarkestLight[\vote]


Hybrid
Drink and live, really

Also hi MM

Hello PIayer

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Scvmurderer : didn't see you contribute much to the town, except maybe your first vote on Mesk.

At least give us your insight on people atm if you want me to think you're town, time is running out and so far you're susp to me.

He's currently at work, I guess, but as soon as he gets back, I'd like a little more contribution. What's your idea about D1 lynch? Btw, he contributed with his wall post of thoughts lol.

[PIayer]

SJ,it's effectively a bit random considering the low post count, but me having the exact same gut feel, sorry can't resist.

Also the Vig soft claim may well been an attempt to setup a future Vig claim.
Still x% tinfoil Jester imo, maybe a fair 7 or 8%


I'll leave it there IMO, I go sleep, hope I didn't miss anything, there will be action but you will be there

[PIayer]

He's currently at work, I guess, but as soon as he gets back, I'd like a little more contribution. What's your idea about D1 lynch? Btw, he contributed with his wall post of thoughts lol.

I'm 100% with SJ on this, also I gave you content to grind while I sleep

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So I checked hybrid posts
( here you go if you want to double check https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/28998-Hybrid)
So little useful content, lots of shit posts. Please hybrid, start contributing if you are town

You know that's what I say since 20 freaking posts!? At best he's an useless townie, at worse he's a scum. A lynch on him would grant us more information to lynch on D2.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You know that's what I say since 20 freaking posts pages!? At best he's an useless townie, at worse he's a scum. A lynch on him would grant us more information to lynch on D2.

No edit is sad...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm disappointed you don't consider hybrid a scum with his shitposting. Tell me please exactly your concerns about me and I'll see if I can counterpoint or give explanations. However I'm off my break at work now and won't be able to check in for a few hours again

noone will ever listen to you because you looked too scummy (and idk if you're actually scum or if you're just bad at town lol), noone will listen to Dr Unknown because he has a few posts and he's new, and apparently, exposing all the fucking terrible shitpost and contradictions in Hybrid's posts is not enough to see the scum lynched. So to everyone who really wants a D1 lynch, VOTE HYBRID GOD DAMN IT!

[PIayer]

grrr MM, cant leave screen because of you

Drop the Hybrid vote man, you know it won't happen. Read my post and leave him be.

also xramza same thing, update your vote or address my points

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Finally!

Spoiler : BOOOOOM :

Prelude/ Getting facts right. Everything we build, we build on what we do know for sure. Don't forget about the setup please. Jester is a possibility. Jailor is a possibility. Vet is a possibility. And so on. We know little, and there is a TON of interpretation & mindgames going on, but it helps to stick to what we DO know.


I/About People, or "The Stuff Everyone Wants", now updated with colors and bullshit %'s to fully entertain your mind!

1/ Those Who Seems To Care About Town

SJ: Even Hybrid knows that, we love you for leading town. Repeating myself at this point but for me it's either pro Town or mastermind DH, and I will give rationales against the mastermind tinfoil theories (cf part III). Odds for fun: 86% Town. 9(!)% Pro Exec building TON of town cred to win D2, but so useful atm it's town-aligned Exec, the kind of continue to lead town like a boss if win D2 (Ive seen it happen several times on the mod, Mafia always want to kill those who make the most sense, yet wasting a night kill just to STFU the Exec who already won, basically that's gg for town at this point). Still, town should remember that part if SJ start to jester in the future. 4% Lover blind-siding with Town D1 because why not, would be game theory optimum. 1% Mastermind Triad/Neutral Evil tinfoil theories (don't even)

xramza: You did meaningful contributions that made sense, got a strong Town vibe from you from the start. While this could well be acting (you did not even vote afterall), so far most of your contributions felt like you were trying to make sense. So 59% Town 41% Else atm. Would be interested reading more from you.

Otakudeepweb: Because your contributions are actually making sense and I feel you paid attention to what has been said, you're one of the strongest town lean I've got atm. 71% Town, 29% Idk. Bold statement considering I don't know how you play, but as things objectively are atm, I liked the fact you tried to put your bit of reasoning into the shitstorm, while you could have chosen to just play dumb with Hybrid/MM/Scvchoochoo and get away with it. So far I respect that.

MM: I could put a wall of quote off you but TDL did it already, that's enough tunnel imo. I maintain you're acting overall townish, you seem to really try to contribute, maybe you try too hard, maybe not. For now I believe not. 69% Town, 26% Neutral Benign, 5% Neut evil/Triad (seems very unlikely atm) so safe D1 by my book.


2/ Those I Don't Know

Dr Unknown & mrtrophywife: It's good to see you started to help town. Gut feeling is I need to read more of you both. For exemple, could you list every player in the game and make some commentary on how do you feel about each? We need to hear more from you before nightfall. Even if you just say "I don't know about most", you doing that will actually help the town. So please. 100% idk yet

TDL: Got a slight town vibe from the effort in post #489, nice post in itself, but doesn't explain the tunneling, if you put that much work into MM you could surely share thoughts about the other players. Exec also comes to mind but it would be too obvious imo considering SJ respecting him and me respecting SJ. So 35% Town 65% Else atm, need to keep posting to gain town points.

Hybrid: Had a wall of quote but would add lenght for nothing, so long story short, if it's Triad play and he manages to survive days with this rate of shitpost I'll /bow. My mind would be blown. A bit toxic to town but not enough to lynch d1 imo. Atm for fun: 30% Jester, 28% any other Neutral, 23% Town setting up some meta play on a level I can't understand (Medic flip would be hilarous imo, as atm there is almost zero chance Maf will target him at night) 19% Triad "too scmumy to scum, also im obv jester rofl", still a decent possibility but not over 19% imo

Mesk: totally unreadeable but well, I believe you have lynch immunity D1 anyway. Didn't contribute much (less than other games I've seen with you in bragging Citizen) but still. Your vote is okay to me imo, so is the play with Hybrid. Might be biased but atm 98% unreadeable, 2% DH mastermind tinfoil. Still +1 kudo for the iso help

3/ Current lynchpool

RLVG still contributed the least. Not knowing how hard is his RL issue is actually hintering us. If he just can't play it's wasted pressure, but regarding the game and not any meta consideration, the reason for being in lynchpool is obvious

Scvmurderer: Contributions resume to one-liners and voting the obvious. Scum lean by my book atm, basically saying "I'm here I try to help" but not making sense, not speaking his mind. You better give us something better or I'll consider switch my vote to you, Mesk & Hybrid posts may not make any sense but I can see sense in voting you atm.



II/ About dreams, or "Meta, macro, and concrete: layers seen by an outsider"

First part was about people. Now I wanted to discuss few things about the game itself. I'll do my best to make it short. Perhaps I'm not the only one to think about those things, so I think it may be worth my time.
1/ "Meta" is vague
There shouldn't be meta in Mafia, ideally we should all be entierely new persons at the beginning of each game. I am an entierely new person, Dr Unknown too. Almost everybody else seems to have history. Felt the need to write about this because I picked up somewhere a thing about "Hybrid is setting up his meta", or was it about SJ, it doesn't matter anyway.
Obviously it's not an ideal world, there IS a meta in any game, sometimes very simple (tic tac toe I start I win GG) sometimes very deep, especially in games involving player's own personality (I think about Poker but also of the game we're playing) and the meta can complexify almost endlessly thanks to game theory followed by wifom ("I know that he knows that I know, so" type of reasonings)
Can't avoid the fact you regulars have your own meta. And personal meta is kinda different. Honestly idk how much breaks the game if we get to the point where we must account with probabilities like "He may be acting like this so the next time he plays like this we won't see it coming", "setting up the future" stuff.
For the sake of my mental health I won't go deeper in that kind of considerations. If anything,I believe it draw us away from the real stuff: the game itself. I think even for regulars, it would be hard to deal with this kind of meta play, so imagine us newcomers.

I'm sure there are already things we aren't able to read between the lines, and that's fine, but it would be kind of you, or at least the town-aligned lot of you, to point out any meta related thing you though could be relevant but could not be seen or thought by newcomers. As we can't get away from meta, and don't need to as it's actually adding layers and flavor. But only thing we care about in the end is: okay I read the game, now is there informations relevant to this game anywhere else?

In short, I'm not asking you guys to share meta reads of anything or anyone, just to all to keep in mind there is different levels of play in this game atm and sometimes a little explaination could help to narrow the gap, should someone feel didactic. Afterall clarity profits town, I believe we can at least agree on this.



III/ About tinfoils and game theory, or "TL;DR is so scummy of a concept, don't wait for it"

Evoqued earlier "DH tinfoil theories", I'll try to go get straight to the point. (Yes I'll try!)

We're playing an incomplete information game. It should be "very incomplete", as I say in prelude the only thing known for sure is Setup. Let's put meta aside for a moment, and keep two examples in mind. Me and SJ (<3), and Mesk & Hybrid couple.
I know very little of SJ, SJ know next to nothing about me (started gathering bits already tho =)). I think he spotted a somewhat analytic mind in the gamelaunch thread and was genuine in his reasons voting me earlier. I believe he was right to be wary typically because ke knows this game is about "very incomplete" information and every bit of info is helping while building intrepretations. This game and especially d1 is all about the story we told each other and our interpretation on each story, said by who and how. Obviously there is more to know than just the setup, you got to put reads on people and try to build an historic, watching for patterns, at two levels at least: in and out of the game. In the game it's kinda straightworward, out of the game is more tricky. It's where regular players will seek their edge, in a very similar fashion to poker: regulars knows their game theory, it's more of less the same for all so when fighting between each other they got to be creative, and to do that properly they first need history of their opponents.
Return on topic: everything we know so far, are assumptions. And the setup. But everything else is uncertain. SJ could be DH. Hybrid could be derp cop or DH or whatever. Mesk could be DH or whatever. I could be DH or whatever. If you start humble and tell yourself everybody is a good player, which you should when you have little to none info on people and which SJ actually did, you got to be paranoïd. Don't even need to be town to be paranoïd atm, as lovers & Triad are in the dark atm. It's the only reasonable stance: accepting everything is just stories and interpretation.

While cautiousness is fair from a rational pov, paranoïa pushed too hard it's actually hindering reason. Reason need at least a tiny bit of solid ground to start building meaningful ideas. That's why I purposely chose to put the meta aside and judge people mostly on things that seems objective to me: what relates to the game DIRECTLY. That's the setup. The fact reasonable discussion is helping town. The fact deception is generally hurting town even if there's advanced plays with town deception.
That's what was behind my reasoning for poking afk/least contributors. Also for poking people who made little to no sense, or acting deceptive in some way (our good Hybrid). And for taking meaningful contribution at "near face value".
Because now's what matters. Not the last game, not the next one. Not even day two. This is day one, so reasonable contributors must be given town cred, I see little reason why we should not. And that's whatever their alignment.
Helz in the guide section summed it up far better than me: rationales are the prime stuff we're looking after here. That's what's helping town. So please keep that fact in mind and leave aside the tinfoils theories. "Mastermind DH" is definitely possible, yes, but how good is focusing on such far away possibility when it's actually D1, DH doesn't even know his partner.

Focus on what is instead of what could be! Tomorrow will be another day, when for sure quotes will be pulled of D1. In fact quotes will be pulled of D1 the whole game, so present matters. And it's simple. People making discussion happen are the one helping. Now, and after. Real alignment is irrelevant atm, only Host has perfect information about who's who. What we're after is good behavior, that's the basis you people are judged on for now. Obv it's still open to interpretation, but far more reasonable than jumping on every tinfoil theory there is.

Is there is a mastermind, by definition we won't know it until it's too late anyway.
So to finish: really don't forget words aren't the only thing making sense here. Everything's up to interpretation. Words, but also lack of words, votes, picked quotes etc.
Yeah there is shitpost, yeah there is deception, but again, obviously everyone will be trying to appear town-aligned for now, by differents ways. All I'm saying is, posting feel lists and sharing our thoughts are the best thing we can do for town atm.

So Scvmurderer don't be surprised I want to hear far more from you. Voted you because it seemed like you didn't really paid attention to what has been said, and it's slightly scummy to tempo the day and give the town nothing but "Hybrid is scummy."

WE ALL GOT THAT, GO ON ABOUT THE OTHERS

Agreed with everything but RLVG/Nawa. They're both AFK lol...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

grrr MM, cant leave screen because of you

Drop the Hybrid vote man, you know it won't happen. Read my post and leave him be.

also xramza same thing, update your vote or address my points

xD but I'm pretty sure theres something with Scv, Mesk and Hybrid. By the way, we must all say WHO we are going to lynch. Else, the day will end in a no-lynch (don't forget it's not mandatory!), and that would be bad, unless theres a jailor (which is incertain).

And I read your wall, OMG ITS ART!!!

[xramza]

I have about an hour before I have to leave, after which I won't be back until well after day end. I think I'll be placing my vote between Scv and TDL since my lynch, as Player said, obviously won't be happening, and I don't disagree with either other lynch.

Gods I'm burnt out and it's barely even night 1. Glad it's coming soon.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Actually, it may be time to pressure someone.

-vote TheDarkestLight

is the one I'd like to see more active. And @Scvmurderer , please say something else I'll vote you.

[PIayer]

100% going to sleep confirmed.

GL ALL

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I have about an hour before I have to leave, after which I won't be back until well after day end. I think I'll be placing my vote between Scv and TDL since my lynch, as Player said, obviously won't be happening, and I don't disagree with either other lynch.

Gods I'm burnt out and it's barely even night 1. Glad it's coming soon.

Your lynch is basically lynch me? Okay...