no but really this was fun seeing both of you get all upset about "a post" that "I made"
All this speculation, screen shotting and asking mods to come restore edits.
WOWzers.
you two will always be fun to torture.
no but really this was fun seeing both of you get all upset about "a post" that "I made"
All this speculation, screen shotting and asking mods to come restore edits.
WOWzers.
you two will always be fun to torture.
I know u will, better spread some rep around so you can neg rep me again LOL.
so funny you kids are.
I dont careeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, I like driving sw up a wall so I denied the post for ever. If you just ciick edited you can compare the two versions LOL. you dont even nEED mod to restore.
your continued to repsonding and repeating something so outdadted shows you really do care
cool story bro tell me something that has not been known forever and a half
i know you will come back, after all big daddy crypt will drag you back even if you dont want it.
also you dont want to dissapoint SW do you? how will she file reports without you?
Apologies again for being late, but I would like to add that one of the reasons GET became so sure that I was mafia was that the host was going to replace me at night when I was late and made GET think that I had a night action that needed to be performed.
Ehh,
It was mostly due to two things.
1. Ika was your only null read. Everyone else was a weird town read. Looked fake.
2. The scum slip in which you claimed wasn't a slip but it clearly was.
Then yeah I speculated on set up due to him wanting to replace at night. But he could have wanted to replace you st night for any number of reasons. I wouldn't push a train on you for that and no one would vote with me for that reason.
Also when you were being questioned hard you were like "ahhh gtg" lol that was also sus
I argue with it because thats is how you voted for it.
So if instead of doing what I did (aka vote Stealth) and give a stupid reason for it (mispelling the name)
I said, "Hi, its late, reading tommorow"
Both of these accomplish the same thing. Would you have voted me scum if I said the second line?
If the answer is yes, then that is fine with me, but if the answer is no, and you voted me because I said it. Can you not see where I have the arguement of arguing with you?
If the reason the first line has issues with you is because "it doesn't move the game state", then the second line also "doesn't move the game state"
This was my argument. I can see that voting for stealth and voting for say GET has different meaning, but I do not see the difference between what I said, and saying its late.
So if you give one a scum reading and one a null reading, instead of giving both a null reading. This is where I have an argument with you and why I argued it with you.
everyone has diffrent stanards of what someone does overall. like if SW were to do that i would instantly scum read it and push her off it. if a random new player were to do it would still scum read them but to a lesser extent.
you cant have this universal "application" of how everyone is gonna play becasue everyone is human at the end of the day and yes we all play diffrently, i do agree to that sense but i do expect some basic stuff of "push the game foward" or "make it so that you cna later"
Except I really did have to go because I was at work, and it wasn't a scumslip just because I turned out to be a witch. That was your perception of the obvious misunderstand.
Ika was the only person acting like scum in an obvious way. But without knowing people's personalities it was difficult to say. Then there were all the people MIA. Having zero info to go on and being unable to interact with people who was afk makes it difficult to determine anything. One of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of forum mafia ATM.
um when you finally came back there were like 20 pages of things you could have gone back and pulled info. You were witch, and you were lazy. You made a mistake by wording your weird only ika could be scum push, in a way that could be inferred as a scumslip.
Sure you had to go, it's just unfortunate for you that once the heat started getting turned up you decided it was the right time to bail.
Listen, you can blame all the outside factors you want, but at the end of the day, you were lynched off your play.
Another thing that doomed you was the fact that you said you were all caught up and then you contradicted yourself and said you were only responding to people who were talking at that time. You admit here and now that other people being afk made it harder for you...which is an invalid excuse because you could have read interactions. You instead chose to buddy everyone that was against ika and tried to get us to lynch him (i.e. low hanging fruit at that moment).
Scum is hard, being MIA for 40 hours, and then trying to jump in and not seem sus is hard, I get it. But ultimately things you chose to do led to your downfall, not host saying he was going to wait till night to replace you.
In the future diversify your reads, even if fake, give more than 1 null read. You could have null read us and said our interaction/fighting with ika is what made you not able to get an accurate read on either of us.
You could have read sinon as scum for trying to push on stereo.
It had nothing to do with my 'play' and everything to do with my being late and trying to catch up and defend myself from the beginning. In any case, this is a pointless conversation. The game is over. Hopefully the next one goes better. But seriously... way too many of you get extremely... let's say passionate about this game (and I'm basing this off of other FMs I've read) to the point where it seems like playing is asking for a lot of stress. Something I'll have to consider before I sign up for the next game.
I was pointing out things you could do better for the future. It's constructive criticism. I get you can't see that you made obvious mistakes. You're new, it happens. Don't let "passion" scare you away.
Anyhow, it's never pointless to have a discussion that can help you learn.
Also, I am not a potato. :P
This if fine. As you have said, everyone has their own playstyle. To you
"Any play a person makes that doesn't help town is by default scum regardless of context" is what I am getting from
they do not accomplish the same thing as i have said on mutiple occasions. if you said "hi reading later" and never voted i would presume it was a breif check in and out and hold you to it later down the road. if you voted GET and claimed it was RVS voting i would of continued RVS voting.From my point of view it would be assumed more context would be given later in the day.the answer is no becasue the context and intentions are diffrent form voting outside of the game. you are intentionaly using a info that gives nothing and a ocntext and motive that is arugbly null at its best. at its worst its scum looking busy. with the "RVS vote/reading later" its more null arguable then scum motivated
Based on this though, the assumption is clearly not a given to all parties involved.the second line sets up up for later for when you come back or not. so you may have not moved the game state yes but you still set yourself up to move the gamestate later with that line, the former of voting outside allows no progress whatsoever
Had I come back and still doing random stuff, then I would see this point, but once RVS was past There was no playing around.
You are saying its motive and intentions are different. I'm saying the outcome of both the motive and the intentions are the same, hence why the conclusion anyone can make of them should be the same. This will just be something we don't see eye to eye on.its the motive and intentions behind it. i feel like you are arguing reason X when im stating its reason Y
Getting back to this.everyone has diffrent stanards of what someone does overall. like if SW were to do that i would instantly scum read it and push her off it. if a random new player were to do it would still scum read them but to a lesser extent.
It is your game style to see this as scummy. That is fine, that is your style. I have no idea what your relationship to SW is, but if its someone you know, you have an personal meta with that person. If I see a troll vote, I'm going to see it for what it is; something neutral. That will be my play style.
But since you see it as scum, and will vote scum on it, when it comes down to it. This difference in view point will cause a conflict ion.
You see action A as scummy, I see action A as neutral (and then this is just going to be based on the player, for example based on what happened in game, I assume Stero see this as neutral for example
If action A is done, There is a dispute, so If every game you see this as scummy and vote it as so. The town person who does so, needs to argue that they are town. If your reasoning is motive and intent of the action, the only argument the town can have against it is questioning the motive and intent of the the action. So while you don't want it to become an argument of semantics, there is only one path the argument can go down.2: I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'll chalk it up to being a village idiot moment, but I plan on keeping an eye on ccantman. It seems more like a meaningless remark than anything that needs to be examined under a microscope.
Since we had this confliction and you voted me, of course the agrument then happens in game as that is your reason for voting me, and that is why its my defense why its not me. Had you just read it as null or as potentially scummy and just left it at that, the argument probably doesn't come up, I don't need to defend on why your vote on me is not valid. Where as voting me, you had to make the case. There was extra challenges was that your reasoning was POE, but given that I didn't see YOUR Logic behing the POE making me scum because I didn't have this current reasoning I have now, your POE was not making sense to me POE as if I was giving a POE and you said the same thing, my POE would of put you at a neutral not a scum. So not explaining the POE also caused issues in game with this argument as there was no base to see where your argument was coming from counterargue back. (which also probably would of ended up at the same conclusion we have right now: a difference in opinion)
Then maybe the expectation is the issue.you cant have this universal "application" of how everyone is gonna play becasue everyone is human at the end of the day and yes we all play diffrently, i do agree to that sense but i do expect some basic stuff of "push the game foward" or "make it so that you cna later"
You say everyone has different playstyles, but the only way to not be scummy is to play in your way where the game must always be pushed forward.
Also this is where I had my issue with the off-topic talk
If "Troll vote" is bad because it doesn't push the game forward
But off-topic talk is fine because it's game related.
If its game related but doesn't push the game forward, you expect A, but then don't always do A. (and then said you liked it. I don't care if you liked it or didn't like it, but don't complain about something that you yourself don't always do)
Personally I didn't care about the off-topic talk being there or not being there, but then I also didn't care if someone is trolling for a post or two. All during my Spring game, Fury and Rachyl were going off on who knows what that had 0 impact in game or about the game.
In the end we are just going to have different view points on this. You see something as scummy, I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise. I see something as neutral. It doesn't help town, but it doesn't hurt it either, therefore neutral. While you are seeing it doesn't help town, therefore scum. Nothing is really going to change my viewpoint from that. So at best we can agree that we disagree
I consider obvious scum to be someone with an agenda or motive that helps scum. For example, Whad has played with ika as Town many times and knows his play. So to vote him for picking on low hanging fruit when he had already taken his vote off ccantman and then voteparked and never came back foe EoD, was scummy. Trine had ika as her only scumread when he was under the most suspicion. This falls under two things. Picking on low hanging fruit to get an easy mislynch. And fake looking reads as scum often have a hard time coming up with scum reads on townies and no one else was doing enough for Trine to pick on in her mind. Anything else might of drawn scrutiny from others so she played it safe where Town is often risky. Which is why ika's play would of been weird from scum as it draws all kinds of negative attention. Trine also was plainly trying to pit ika and PTB against each other more and that only helps scum.
I've seen scum troll vote the host more often than not.
Edited to add, now that WIFOM is over-check Fury's last two games where he was scum. I've also seen it offsite in games.
I've also seen scum vote themselves in games they can, and their team mates and even jokingly claim scum.
Trolling in the beginning could be considered scum trying to look easy going and townie but it really doesn't contribute anything to the game.
Regarding off topic banter-I've used that to get townreads off people because I find scum has a harder time keeping that up and looking natural about it.
And yes, I'm the SW ika is talking about.
Last edited by SilverWolf; March 26th, 2017 at 01:38 PM.
neutral = helps scum
town should always be pushing and playing for town not neutral. post can come off as neutral overall yes, but in the end town should be pushing towns agenda not being passive, not waiting, not sitting there and hope scums come out of wood works. thats what im saying. by doing "neutral" stuff you are helping sucm in the sense that town has a reason to vote you by your own logic: you are neutral read so town should have no problem pushing your lynch through
if you think toherwise fine but its gonna be the thing i say to anyone and everyone becasue the site meta needs to be pushed in a better directiona dn that towns nees to start amping up their games and not being apathtic and letting someone else direct it all