S-FM 223: Cult of Zed

[Cass]

@yzb25 so apprently you inbvited cass? how does cass play and what is their playtlye?

do they have any experince and any completed games?

@Cass you can answer these yoruself if you like

I've played about ?15 forum games total, a mix of full games on my homesite (Dragonmount) and random other places like MU, theOrg, CivFan, PersC ad a couple of crazy-ass turbos and mashes on MU/2x2.

I don't even know how to answer the first two-part question. How would you describe your own playstyle and how were these questions going to help you on D1 of this game?

Yo @yzb who the heck is cass? She (?) doesn't sound very new.

*popcorns for Yzb's answer*

What counts as new, and is new good/bad/indifferent?

*steals and noms and thoughts and stuff*

[Quick]

dragonmount is like the nomads of the Mafia world, they just are never happy at home.

[ika]

@Cass

let me rephrase:

how do you see yourself playing as town and how do you see yourself playing as scum

can you link some of your said games

[ika]

the questions are asked so i can get a baseline of what i should be expecting of you. bonus if you have any third party games that i can see

[Cass]

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! People!

@Quick - I think you misspelt adventurers :P . I heart DM, but I heart new places and people too :wub:
How do you know DMers? Where else have you played?

[secondpassing]

*popcorns for Yzb's answer*

What counts as new, and is new good/bad/indifferent?

*steals and noms and thoughts and stuff*

New is good (for me). I'm not sure anyone believes me when I say that more experienced players have to be read differently than newer players.

Even in my mind, I haven't quite explicitly defined "new" yet. But maybe you're kinda new? Almost want to test it.

[Cass]

Awww man, we have to go back and unclick MQs????

@Cass

let me rephrase:

how do you see yourself playing as town and how do you see yourself playing as scum

can you link some of your said games

the questions are asked so i can get a baseline of what i should be expecting of you. bonus if you have any third party games that i can see

I generally play erratically due to time constraints and WHEEEEEEEEEEE!!SHINY-EASILY-DISTRACTED-BRAIN!
I use a lot of questions as either alignment, and as scum I try and emulate my Town game, so I'm not sure if there are any big differences?
I try not to tunnel, but it happens. I'm pretty paranoid as a player and latch onto little details/pings early and follow them from there...

And I like surfing more than long walks on the beach under a midnight moon.

I'll go fetch you some links and you can make of them what you will

Who you planning on having as the lynch today?


Is there any reason why it shouldn't be you?

[Cass]

Awww man, we have to go back and unclick MQs????

@Cass

let me rephrase:

how do you see yourself playing as town and how do you see yourself playing as scum

can you link some of your said games

the questions are asked so i can get a baseline of what i should be expecting of you. bonus if you have any third party games that i can see

I generally play erratically due to time constraints and WHEEEEEEEEEEE!!SHINY-EASILY-DISTRACTED-BRAIN!
I use a lot of questions as either alignment, and as scum I try and emulate my Town game, so I'm not sure if there are any big differences?
I try not to tunnel, but it happens. I'm pretty paranoid as a player and latch onto little details/pings early and follow them from there...

And I like surfing more than long walks on the beach under a midnight moon.

I'll go fetch you some links and you can make of them what you will

Who you planning on having as the lynch today?


Is there any reason why it shouldn't be you?

[Cass]

Test

[spoiler]Halp! My last post got ate/won't be posted until approved by a mod! Why is this a thing?????[/spoiler]

[secondpassing]

Test

[spoiler]Halp! My last post got ate/won't be posted until approved by a mod! Why is this a thing?????[/spoiler]

It's to prevent spam I believe. New people are limited to the amount of posts they can make.

I think the solution is
A) ask mods to help
B) make a thread elsewhere and post on it ten times

[secondpassing]

So Cass, are you satisfied with life?

Do you get anxious about life's big decisions?

Is there a plan already set for your future? i.e. goals and steps to get there

How do you usually react to internet trolling?

Are you a jerk?

[Cass]

@Cass

let me rephrase:

how do you see yourself playing as town and how do you see yourself playing as scum

can you link some of your said games

Let's try this again, and sorry if the previous post gets posted a bazillion times.

I WANNAAAAAA PLAAAYYYYY GOSHDARNIITTTTTTT!!!

(Why don't you people have spoilers???)


@ika I generally play erratically, I have RL time constraints and a WHEEEE!!!SHINY-EASILY-DISTRACTED-GUT/BRAIN!
I use a lot of questions as either alignment and do my best to emulate my Town game when scum, so not sure if there are any huge differences.
I play initially with gut-led-pings -> questions -> following inconsistencies. I tunnel sometimes when it's not necessary, but hopefully I'm getting better at avoiding that habit.

I like surfing more than long walks on the beach.

And I'm getting you a list of links but



Who you planning on having as the lynch today?

Is there any reason why it shouldn't be you?

[Cass]

So Cass, are you satisfied with life?

Do you get anxious about life's big decisions?

Is there a plan already set for your future? i.e. goals and steps to get there

How do you usually react to internet trolling?

Are you a jerk?

1. Yes, but I'm way more satisfied by living !

2. Is the answer 42?

3. I have goals. I have so many goals. I have so many goals that they mostly outweigh my ability to plan.

4.
Or silence, because who gratifies trolls?

5. Not usually


Also, I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm just hyper \o/

[ika]

Let's try this again, and sorry if the previous post gets posted a bazillion times.

I WANNAAAAAA PLAAAYYYYY GOSHDARNIITTTTTTT!!!

(Why don't you people have spoilers???)


@ika I generally play erratically, I have RL time constraints and a WHEEEE!!!SHINY-EASILY-DISTRACTED-GUT/BRAIN!
I use a lot of questions as either alignment and do my best to emulate my Town game when scum, so not sure if there are any huge differences.
I play initially with gut-led-pings -> questions -> following inconsistencies. I tunnel sometimes when it's not necessary, but hopefully I'm getting better at avoiding that habit.

I like surfing more than long walks on the beach.

And I'm getting you a list of links but



Who you planning on having as the lynch today?

Is there any reason why it shouldn't be you?

one of the admins msut of fixed it cus they added 50 posts to your counts

right now im sheeping mesk mostly due to the fact not eveyone has checked in. i tend to have a ist of people i dont want to lynch and work form there

for your second quesiton: other then the fact im town and it would allow cult leader to recuit? no, not really.

i would rather win this day one frankly so we can stop these single ball games thats not even really mafia to an extent but site meta will allow it to continue

[Cass]

@ika /whoever's interested


MU is down, so games there are out but

Link to database with every (updated) game I've ever played at DM.
(Ignore Snakes on a Plane, i)it was an Alt game and ii)I was a sub and game ended before I got to post)

And

Not updated to the database (Old West Mischief - Scum)

Last game on the Org (Town)
Representative Democracy

Make of them what you will

[secondpassing]

I bet Stealthbomber16 is MattZed's alt.
In posts #162 and #167, both of them used the same syntax to end sentences, that is no syntax. If you'll also note the timestamps, it shows that both of them were on at the nearly the same time, both posts being made within 26 minutes of each other.
In post #223, which was early in day 2, Stealthbomber16 opens with the words "Long live the emperor". Not coincidentally, MattZed at the end of day 2 hammers and posts "Quite a short day. Hopefully, the next day will be more productive." which are both in reference to the length of time. A scum boast if I ever seen one.

-vote Stealthbomber16

Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.

[Cass]

New is good (for me). I'm not sure anyone believes me when I say that more experienced players have to be read differently than newer players.

Even in my mind, I haven't quite explicitly defined "new" yet. But maybe you're kinda new? Almost want to test it.

1. Why is it good (for you)?
2. Why wouldn't people believe veterans and newbies play differently/require different approaches in reading? I believe you, but I'm curious what actual difference it makes for you?
3. What are you testing?

[Quick]

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! People!

@Quick - I think you misspelt adventurers :P . I heart DM, but I heart new places and people too :wub:
How do you know DMers? Where else have you played?

I've played a few places. We get a lot of DM players coming to PerC tho.

[secondpassing]

1. Why is it good (for you)?
2. Why wouldn't people believe veterans and newbies play differently/require different approaches in reading? I believe you, but I'm curious what actual difference it makes for you?
3. What are you testing?

I was actually thinking about making a second post about clarifying that, but then I had dinner. It's good for me because then I don't have to go around explaining why new players need to be read differently.

Veterans generally are more controlled with what they post. They know what gives them away and what is safe to post. They have a more "townie" facade when playing scum, and thus cannot be taken at face value. It's good to always second guess them. As for newer players, they can usually be taken more at face value. At times, they employ simple deception tactics (which I have yet to learn) which will sometimes fool me. That's why I now incorporate some psychological warfare into my play.

Instead of doing tests, I will attempt to refrain from that. Apparently it makes me seem scummy, and I've got enough chastising from DarknessB already.

[Cass]

one of the admins msut of fixed it cus they added 50 posts to your counts

right now im sheeping mesk mostly due to the fact not eveyone has checked in. i tend to have a ist of people i dont want to lynch and work form there

for your second quesiton: other then the fact im town and it would allow cult leader to recuit? no, not really.

i would rather win this day one frankly so we can stop these single ball games thats not even really mafia to an extent but site meta will allow it to continue

Ta for the meta (bold).

How much have you played with Mesk and why sheep her there? / Are random votes a common thing here?

Do you have meta on any of the other players in the game (expectations/theories as to how they play in each alignment)?

Why sign up if you don't like the proposed gamestyle??

[Quick]

Ta for the meta (bold).

How much have you played with Mesk and why sheep her there? / Are random votes a common thing here?

Do you have meta on any of the other players in the game (expectations/theories as to how they play in each alignment)?

Why sign up if you don't like the proposed gamestyle??

You are prolly from the UK and prolly are a semi-new player, between 10-20 games in my estimation.

[Cass]

I've played a few places. We get a lot of DM players coming to PerC tho.

Oooh! PersC! I've played twice there, but one was a last-man-standing rather than mafia game... I don't know if I know you or not

Are there any big differences in general play/site culture here compared to there?

[Cass]

Wait

New is good (for me). I'm not sure anyone believes me when I say that more experienced players have to be read differently than newer players.

Even in my mind, I haven't quite explicitly defined "new" yet. But maybe you're kinda new? Almost want to test it.

I was actually thinking about making a second post about clarifying that, but then I had dinner. It's good for me because then I don't have to go around explaining why new players need to be read differently.

Veterans generally are more controlled with what they post. They know what gives them away and what is safe to post. They have a more "townie" facade when playing scum, and thus cannot be taken at face value. It's good to always second guess them. As for newer players, they can usually be taken more at face value. At times, they employ simple deception tactics (which I have yet to learn) which will sometimes fool me. That's why I now incorporate some psychological warfare into my play.

Instead of doing tests, I will attempt to refrain from that. Apparently it makes me seem scummy, and I've got enough chastising from DarknessB already.

New is good for you, because then you don't have to go around explaining why new players need to be read differently?



I think whether or not newbies can be taken on face value depends more on their personality than their alignment, and it's probably good to always second guess everybody

<.<

>.>

<.<

[Quick]

Oooh! PersC! I've played twice there, but one was a last-man-standing rather than mafia game... I don't know if I know you or not

Are there any big differences in general play/site culture here compared to there?

Lemme think...

Its actually fairly similar based on how the game is played. The setups are done differently here, and people are generally less sensitive here than they are at PerC meaning here there is a better chance of getting offended if you are weak of heart. The both use meta to a decent degree since they both have a smaller player base than say, MS. Here though, people are not as quick to use meta based off last game as a good measurement of play. I would say the play styles you come across on PerC are a bit more varied than here. PerC is really big into Role Madness games and here its not as crazy with setups. Here the setups are generally more... what's the word... On PerC they kinda just like to throw roles into the game that seem cool, while here they kinda put a little more thought into balance. Here is a little less swingy (that's the word I was looking for). Also, very few games are done by simple majority on PerC and here its almost always simple majority with a game thrown in with popular majority every once in a while.

I am really bad at picking up on site meta so take this with a grain of salt.

[Cass]

You are prolly from the UK and prolly are a semi-new player, between 10-20 games in my estimation.

1 outta 2



How many games have you played with everybody here?

[Quick]

1 outta 2



How many games have you played with everybody here?

I have no idea honestly. Not too many I don't think.

[Quick]

I bet Stealthbomber16 is MattZed's alt.
In posts #162 and #167, both of them used the same syntax to end sentences, that is no syntax. If you'll also note the timestamps, it shows that both of them were on at the nearly the same time, both posts being made within 26 minutes of each other.
In post #223, which was early in day 2, Stealthbomber16 opens with the words "Long live the emperor". Not coincidentally, MattZed at the end of day 2 hammers and posts "Quite a short day. Hopefully, the next day will be more productive." which are both in reference to the length of time. A scum boast if I ever seen one.

-vote Stealthbomber16

Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.

You are saying MatZed is playing in the game he is moderating? I find that hard to believe.

[Mesk514]

I have no idea honestly. Not too many I don't think.

What do you mean not too many... I thought we were best friends. Don't hide our friendship

[Gyrlander]

oh god. im not sure if i can imitate his lurker play though....

Hope you're the cultist leader, Lil bish.

[secondpassing]

You are saying MatZed is playing in the game he is moderating? I find that hard to believe.

I found it hard to believe too, but then I looked at the evidence.

[Quick]

What do you mean not too many... I thought we were best friends. Don't hide our friendship

Sorry Mesk, I only think of you as a friend.

[secondpassing]

Hope you're the cultist leader, Lil bish.

Fight Fight Fight

[Mesk514]

Sorry Mesk, I only think of you as a friend.

[Mesk514]

i'll never forget that time i died to a jester because of you.

[yzb25]

People seem to be overestimating how well I know Cass. I had a mafia-related skype conversation with her last night and a couple smaller ones about IRL. That's about it lol. In regards to how she reads people, it seems she likes to hunt for inconsistencies that imply a scum is fabricating arguments / moods, by considering player's posts in bulk.

People better not come up with trash meta reads / false expectations for players they've never played with. Figuring out someone's playstyle is something best done through actually playing with them, not reading a game they played a month ago or just asking them. >.>

[yzb25]

Anyway, this setup is obviously very unlike a vanilla mafia setup, yet Ika hasn't delved into strategy at all. It goes without saying he thinks quite deeply about strategies to satisfy wincons, so this is weird as fuck. I'm expecting a sexy explanation for your minimal allusions to crappy strategies later on.

____

This game we should be a lot more open about our reads on multiple players and shit. When your alignment changes your agenda completely shifts and past reads drag you down. In light of this, I want people to be very open about their first impressions of players.

Spoiler : first impressions :

Quick reminds me of Spirits so far, and by host meta he seems to obvious a choice for cultmaster. So he's got a gut-townread.

Cass has been pretty null. Don't metaread her as town because she's new - there's a very good chance Matt was aware of her decent experience.

SP's silly reaction test looks towny. Somehow I don't think he'd risk getting lynched for ridiculous reasons like he has in the past if he were scum - he's under pressure from DB. He could just be ballsier though.

SB seems like a sweatier player as town. Where is the sweat? Light scumread backed by meta.

Gyr/Mesk are unreadable as usual.

Unless someone has some trash pressure tests they wanna do, we have little reason to be secretive about our reads. Fucking scream them from the rooftops.
____

PL Gyrlander. He's perfect cult-bait because he rarely gives unique / comprehensive reads d1 - this makes him ideal for an agenda shift later on. He's also got the meta-view of being lynch-bait, making him the opposite of lynch-bait. I want to narrow down the number of good options cultmaster has for conversion.

-vote Gyrlander

[Gyrlander]

EXCUSE ME? THE GAME JUST STARTED, I'M AT SCHOOL AND YOU START THREATENING ME????

I thought we had something special

[Gyrlander]

-vote yzb25

Eat the OMGUS, mother--

[Gyrlander]

Wait, wtf? Have you thought about you were saying yzb? Instead of searching the cult master you decide to Lynch someone who could be converted? I think you're focusing on the wrong thing/idea.

Scum, bish?

[Cass]

People seem to be overestimating how well I know Cass. I had a mafia-related skype conversation with her last night and a couple smaller ones about IRL. That's about it lol. In regards to how she reads people, it seems she likes to hunt for inconsistencies that imply a scum is fabricating arguments / moods, by considering player's posts in bulk.

People better not come up with trash meta reads / false expectations for players they've never played with. Figuring out someone's playstyle is something best done through actually playing with them, not reading a game they played a month ago or just asking them. >.>

Part one of this is truth

Part two of this is good advice, though I don't think asking players for self-input or reading their past games is inherently bad in itself.


On that note, I need more content to form proper reads but I'm still chewing over entry posts wrt me, other player's input on whether the entries were strange or not would be appreciated.

[Cass]

Spoiler : Ika :

@yzb25 so apprently you inbvited cass? how does cass play and what is their playtlye?

do they have any experince and any completed games?

@Cass you can answer these yoruself if you like

@Cass

let me rephrase:

how do you see yourself playing as town and how do you see yourself playing as scum

can you link some of your said games

the questions are asked so i can get a baseline of what i should be expecting of you. bonus if you have any third party games that i can see

@ everyone
My initial take on all this was that it was possibly awkward and irrelevant in the current game/setup and therefore fluff and filler and possi-scummy, but tbh this bothers me less on re-read than it did on first pass.
At worst it's null, at best it's invitation to get a new player involved?

@ika
- do you regularly read past games for other players?
- do you have insight/reads for the current game?

[Cass]

Spoiler : Secondpassing :

Yo @yzb who the heck is cass? She (?) doesn't sound very new.

So Cass, are you satisfied with life?

Do you get anxious about life's big decisions?

Is there a plan already set for your future? i.e. goals and steps to get there

How do you usually react to internet trolling?

Are you a jerk?

@ everyone
The tone and timing of the first post (after Ika has already brought it up) read off to me and I'm still waiting on clarification wrt the logic of the whole 'doesn't sound very new' (why was this even important?) later followed by ''new is good for me' 'because then I don't have to go around explaining why new players need to be read differently').

Second post made me lol but it's null until I see what SP does with it.

@secondpassing
- What were you looking for with your questions? / Did they help you form any sort of insight/lean?
- Can you clarify the logic of the 'new' comments?

[Cass]

She is definitely a 'she' unlike some people on the site >.>

This one (and Mesk's opening post/others) just made me lol.
I'm reading Mesk as easygoing/confident, bouncing between on and off topic. Essentially s/he's good on tone, null on content/involvement for me to here.

@Mesk514
- Have you got readz?
- Gaming the mod aside, what do you make (if anything) of Quick's start to the game?

dragonmount is like the nomads of the Mafia world, they just are never happy at home.

This I think was either comment for the sake of comment, or a way to engage, not enough content yet to go forward with it.

@Quick
- Unless I misunderstood, you were most uneasy about Mesk and Ika early on, does this still stand?

FTR I have no idea about Mesk's meta and whether or not she was lacking bite, but I mindmelded with the general sentiments/comment wrt Ika and thought it was indicative of keen scum-hunting. I found that style slipped quickly after Mesk and Ika shut it down.

Is this a normal early-game thing, or a thing? (Do you have any leans/reads?)

[Firebringer]

Hey everyone what's up?
I haven't read anything or setup.

Wanted to claim power role but I'll hold onto that for awhile

[Firebringer]

let's role play, you be gyrlander and i'll be calix

Will enjoy this.

[Firebringer]

Yzb and mesk are town reads.

[Firebringer]

I have done my job here.
Will return later.

[Cass]

Anyway, this setup is obviously very unlike a vanilla mafia setup, yet Ika hasn't delved into strategy at all. It goes without saying he thinks quite deeply about strategies to satisfy wincons, so this is weird as fuck. I'm expecting a sexy explanation for your minimal allusions to crappy strategies later on.

____

This game we should be a lot more open about our reads on multiple players and shit. When your alignment changes your agenda completely shifts and past reads drag you down. In light of this, I want people to be very open about their first impressions of players.

Spoiler : first impressions :

Quick reminds me of Spirits so far, and by host meta he seems to obvious a choice for cultmaster. So he's got a gut-townread.

Cass has been pretty null. Don't metaread her as town because she's new - there's a very good chance Matt was aware of her decent experience.

SP's silly reaction test looks towny. Somehow I don't think he'd risk getting lynched for ridiculous reasons like he has in the past if he were scum - he's under pressure from DB. He could just be ballsier though.

SB seems like a sweatier player as town. Where is the sweat? Light scumread backed by meta.

Gyr/Mesk are unreadable as usual.

Unless someone has some trash pressure tests they wanna do, we have little reason to be secretive about our reads. Fucking scream them from the rooftops.
____

PL Gyrlander. He's perfect cult-bait because he rarely gives unique / comprehensive reads d1 - this makes him ideal for an agenda shift later on. He's also got the meta-view of being lynch-bait, making him the opposite of lynch-bait. I want to narrow down the number of good options cultmaster has for conversion.

-vote Gyrlander

*Bounces*

Why Gyrlander over SB, who you're light scum-reading with meta backup? Or Ika, who you're finding weird af?

Can you elaborate on the meta with SB? IIRC the dude has made one post: an emote with chopsticks and rice. And it's still really early game. Is that unusual for them as Town?


Both you and @Mesk514 have mentioned host meta... what is that and is it really a reliable thing?

For my part, if it helps, I hadn't spoken to Matt at all pre-rand other than to chat-request on Skype. What do you mean about 'decent experience' and 'a very good chance Matt was aware'?
I don't think anyone was metareading me at all, Town or otherwise, because I'm new. I can't tell whether your comment is just good general advice, or whether you're setting me up as someone you can fence-sit on later on?

[Cass]

My brain in this game right now





What I should really be doing



Ninight!

[Gyrlander]

My brain in this game right now





What I should really be doing



Ninight!

#TOWNREAD