S-FM 220: Empire

[RLVG]

I'm calling bullshit on this part because you haven't talked to me in several months. You don't 'know' what I'm like now and anyone trying to meta-read me needs to pick up a Darwin Award.

Calix claims grown-up.

Im a Citizen

OH NO, A FOOKIN' CLEIM



This game is probably going to be solved relatively quick lol.

[MattZed]

again, neutral should nto out that and jsut let town deal with it themselfs in trying to find it cue tot he fact empress is the enabler of the lynch immunity

Why are you arguing for the Assasin to do something anti-town?

[Unknown1234]

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

I like the fact that you aren't denying being neut, though.


Nah, I just came up with my own plan and figured it was probably similar to Calix's so I asked if we were on the same page.

My point was, why didn't you just wait for her to answer it you were going to explain yourself anyways? It seems like you just wanted to prove you had something to say.

[MattZed]

You callin me weak Bro?

I was talking about yzb, but you Brits in general seem to have a thing for being the Weakest Link.

[SuperJack]

pleb leader would die outright if they cliamed. your also missing the fact that he changed it to be invesgation immune and that the pleb leader cant be healed.

i disagree on neutral wanting to take out empoer first. it would be in the best intrest to kill the town pleb first cus if emoror is dead, town has little incetive to keep it. the royal is jsut a sucide bomber and the empress could be caught by a lookout/detecitve

Knows the setup well.

[Calix]

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

I like the fact that you aren't denying being neut, though.


Nah, I just came up with my own plan and figured it was probably similar to Calix's so I asked if we were on the same page.

You haven't answered the question.

No town would want to hunt for the neutral after agreeing that the neutral is more town-sided. The fact that you're trying to encourage a scum kill on me (one of the more competent players in the game) clearly shows an agenda.

Thus I'm finding it very hard to believe that you're town.

[SilverWolf]

I will believe it when I see it.

Just to get this started: Would you fall back on a policy lynch target (say, yzb25) if we did not find anyone particularly scummy today?

Is there some reason you want to discuss policy lynching this early? I see no reason we can't just scumhunt like normal. This comment seems really odd to make right off the bat.

[Sino]

Yes and I want elaboration on your reasoning here. Do it now, please. Your posts where you bullheadedly refuse to see the virtue of Neut KPN are far less productive than your Unknown read so I want to see that.

I simply don't see what's scummy in asking you why you would want a leader reveal d1, as i told you, it seems like a bad move altogether, the fact that Unknown doesn't seem to be thinking about that and already talks about a lynch on me, does look like he's only trying to get a ML off.

As for my refusal to see the virtue of the NK, i just don't see any world where the assassin will trust town and vice-versa.

Why were you thinking the assassin might leave the Empress in a death note when it would be the stupidest move they could make ?

[MattZed]

My point was, why didn't you just wait for her to answer it you were going to explain yourself anyways? It seems like you just wanted to prove you had something to say.

I must say, I never thought I'd see a day where Calix was more friendly to talk to in a game than you.

But you are entirely misreading the intention of my post. You're reading it like I was using it to interrogate Calix. I'm not; I'm trying to propose a strategy that will increase the win chance for town and Assasin alike.

[Unknown1234]

While this is the topic of conversation, can you be more specific?

I'll show you the posts again.

[ika]

Why are you arguing for the Assasin to do something anti-town?

becuase the asssain isnt town so why shoult they play in a pro-town manner that hurts their won wincon?

im staing a smart assain wont jsut go "ok town here ya go" cus it hurts their wincon jsut as much

[secondpassing]

@Gyrlander Can you link the setup to the first post? That would be helpful.

[SuperJack]

I was talking about yzb, but you Brits in general seem to have a thing for being the Weakest Link.

[Unknown1234]

Sino are you trying to force me into seeming like I'm lynching you? I don't even remember saying that word.

[Calix]

I simply don't see what's scummy in asking you why you would want a leader reveal d1, as i told you, it seems like a bad move altogether, the fact that Unknown doesn't seem to be thinking about that and already talks about a lynch on me, does look like he's only trying to get a ML off.

As for my refusal to see the virtue of the NK, i just don't see any world where the assassin will trust town and vice-versa.

Why were you thinking the assassin might leave the Empress in a death note when it would be the stupidest move they could make ?

Yawn, all I'm seeing here is "someone scum-reads me so I'm scum-reading them because they want to lynch me" reasoning. Try again.

I've explained my thoughts on Neutral strategy and how them killing the scum is a better strategy. Now that I have something player-related between you and MZ and what have you, I'm going to focus on that instead.

[RLVG]

So do we lynch, or do we like No Lynch every single day? I want the NK to be on our side.

[Unknown1234]

Doesn't look like you to not place a RVS vote though.

This is one of the posts I don't like, he calls Mesk out for not making an RVS, but I don't understand why he makes a Meta argument so early and doesn't explain why it's scummy.

This is a bad post but I've said this against Mesk before as scum, and, it's not unusual for her to not make RVS votes. So I don't like it.

[SuperJack]

I'm calling bullshit on this part because you haven't talked to me in several months. You don't 'know' what I'm like now and anyone trying to meta-read me needs to pick up a Darwin Award.

Quite a way to block any attack on you form a Meta view point. I'm sure that there will be some part of your previous self involved.

[MattZed]

Knows the setup well.

Can we please not pretend this is meaningful?

You haven't answered the question.

No town would want to hunt for the neutral after agreeing that the neutral is more town-sided. The fact that you're trying to encourage a scum kill on me (one of the more competent players in the game) clearly shows an agenda.

Thus I'm finding it very hard to believe that you're town.

But if I'm scum, why would I waste time directing a kill on your now when I could wait for my night chat or have simply performed the kill myself if I were the guard?

Surely you can read my agenda better than that, although I imagine you're just playing dumb for the WIFOM.

Is there some reason you want to discuss policy lynching this early? I see no reason we can't just scumhunt like normal. This comment seems really odd to make right off the bat.

Do you have a better suggestion for how to start page 1? I was asking for Sino's opinion on something.

Speaking of which, why'd you and ika vote each other? Have you talked about how you would interact in a game before?

[Unknown1234]

Isn't SJ always scummy no matter what ?

Then he says this, which isn't accurate and basically either sets up Jack to look bad or excuses any scummy behaviour. I don't see why he did that either.

[ika]

So do we lynch, or do we like No Lynch every single day? I want the NK to be on our side.

we lynch, no lynching is basicly giving it to scums hands mostly due tot he fact that neutral can jsut end up shooting all the towns

also wheres my colors funsies? its a staple of the intro of rlvg

[Calix]

Quite a way to block any attack on you form a Meta view point. I'm sure that there will be some part of your previous self involved.

Nobody on this site can use meta properly. This is evident by meta-reads NEVER leading to a lynch because of how lazily they are thrown out there.

Post analysis or GTFO.

[Sino]

Sino are you trying to force me into seeming like I'm lynching you? I don't even remember saying that word.

Fair enough, i was referring to your post saying i'm a good place to start at, that's not saying you'll lynch me, i give you that.

Yawn, all I'm seeing here is "someone scum-reads me so I'm scum-reading them because they want to lynch me" reasoning. Try again.

I've explained my thoughts on Neutral strategy and how them killing the scum is a better strategy. Now that I have something player-related between you and MZ and what have you, I'm going to focus on that instead.

I don't have to scumread him for that.

You also were talking about the neutral leaving a death note, that's what i was pointing out, why did you ever think that ?

[Unknown1234]

Calix, it really doesn't look like you to say "let's get a confirmed town our leader", why were you suggesting this ?

Then, once again, he is trying to use a meta read to make somebody look bad. But I don't like how he is posting these comments, because it shows no point or how it will do anything except throw doubt or focus onto someone's play.

[SuperJack]

@Calix , was this more or less your plan?

Offer to the Corrupted Royal Assassin:

Try to kill the Emperor. Every. Damned. Night. Aim for the Emperor. If you night kill him, stop killing. We won't lynch you if you do, and when we get down to one scum we'll reveal our leader so you can kill him and take your half of the win. It's better to work with us than work against us.

Do us all a favor, and kill the scummiest players. If I start seeing dead town leaders, your neck is as good as stretched.

This would make me Neut lean you, offering a well thought plan to a neutral. But in disguise you are telling us your plan instead.

[MattZed]

I'll show you the posts again.

I'm waiting.

becuase the asssain isnt town so why shoult they play in a pro-town manner that hurts their won wincon?

im staing a smart assain wont jsut go "ok town here ya go" cus it hurts their wincon jsut as much

Regardless of how it may sometimes be in their best interest to go against town, the Assasin doesn't need coaching.

So do we lynch, or do we like No Lynch every single day? I want the NK to be on our side.

What does no-lynching have to do with controlling the NK?

[Unknown1234]

I simply don't see what's scummy in asking you why you would want a leader reveal d1, as i told you, it seems like a bad move altogether, the fact that Unknown doesn't seem to be thinking about that and already talks about a lynch on me, does look like he's only trying to get a ML off.

As for my refusal to see the virtue of the NK, i just don't see any world where the assassin will trust town and vice-versa.

Why were you thinking the assassin might leave the Empress in a death note when it would be the stupidest move they could make ?

When did I talk about this?

[Calix]

Can we please not pretend this is meaningful?


But if I'm scum, why would I waste time directing a kill on your now when I could wait for my night chat or have simply performed the kill myself if I were the guard?

Surely you can read my agenda better than that, although I imagine you're just playing dumb for the WIFOM.


Do you have a better suggestion for how to start page 1? I was asking for Sino's opinion on something.

Speaking of which, why'd you and ika vote each other? Have you talked about how you would interact in a game before?

I have town/ scum motivations for you posting that. I'm asking to see whether your answer aligns more closely to my town-motivated theory or not. Would you kindly assist by answering properly instead of with rhetorical questions so that I can clarify this? You are, of course, welcome to say no.

Much love.

[ika]

Speaking of which, why'd you and ika vote each other? Have you talked about how you would interact in a game before?

ill let her answer the former but ill answer the later becasue its in regards to me too.

we will vote each toher at the start of a game regardless of alignments. its jsut our thing we do. as for the later, its been a while so we were not exactly sure what we would do interaciton wise but we always have said we would vote each other out of the gate as a starting point

[Sino]

Then he says this, which isn't accurate and basically either sets up Jack to look bad or excuses any scummy behaviour. I don't see why he did that either.

That was in response to MZ's RVS vote, i was actually meaning SJ is also scummy as town.

[Unknown1234]

Moving on.

[Calix]

Then, once again, he is trying to use a meta read to make somebody look bad. But I don't like how he is posting these comments, because it shows no point or how it will do anything except throw doubt or focus onto someone's play.

I second this. I disliked the "Calix isn't acting as she usually is" posts too, although I am more biased since those comments always rankle me.

This would make me Neut lean you, offering a well thought plan to a neutral. But in disguise you are telling us your plan instead.

Why are you Neutral-hunting? Why are you posting your thoughts on who the Neutral is to the chat?

[ika]

I'm waiting.


Regardless of how it may sometimes be in their best interest to go against town, the Assasin doesn't need coaching.


What does no-lynching have to do with controlling the NK?

who said im coaching the assasin? im just pointing out obvious flaws in your plan

you plan basicly says "follow town like a mindless slave"

im saying: "why should they do that? they have a brain of their own"

[RLVG]

Nobody on this site can use meta properly.

Because when people use Meta, it's always conveniently against their favor lol.

What does no-lynching have to do with controlling the NK?

Because the Neutral changes win condition if we lynch one of their targets.

[SuperJack]

Fair point but i think trying to manipulate the night kills is bound to failure. The sk has no reason to trust town.

You seem pretty upset that there is even a chance the SK could side with town.

-vote Sino

[Sino]

Because the Neutral changes win condition if we lynch one of their targets.

Not a good point, one target is lynch immune atm and the other one can claim and be confirmed.

[MattZed]

I have town/ scum motivations for you posting that. I'm asking to see whether your answer aligns more closely to my town-motivated theory or not. Would you kindly assist by answering properly instead of with rhetorical questions so that I can clarify this? You are, of course, welcome to say no.

Much love.

"Much Love?" Boy, you might have a point about being entirely changed.

I've already given you an answer, which you took as a non-answer, but it wasn't. I think my intentions are actually rather transparent to you, and I'm taking the gambit that you're of the appropriate alignment to receive those intentions.

tbf, I don't see which end of this rabbit hole ends up with scum motivation, though.

[SuperJack]

If I recall correctly, the Emperor's the lynch-proof dude, right? It's incredibly unlikely that the Neut will turn into a literal Serial Killer unless we fuck up and mislynch the Pleb Leader.

For this reason, we should always get a claim from people that we're lynching. No quick-hammering unclaimed players/ switching onto someone AFK at EOD or any of that shit.

And yes, MZ is right that the Neut is going to have a hard time finding the Pleb Leader unless they reveal. That's why hitting the Emperor first and giving town leeway to lose their confirmed role is WAY better.

Aka Don't try to Mis-Lynch SuperJack again on D1.

[Sino]

You seem pretty upset that there is even a chance the SK could side with town.

-vote Sino

You didn't tell me how i was wrong about the no trusting.

[Calix]

I feel like half the players don't realise that the Neutral isn't actually like, a Serial Killer and can win with the town since the only way that the Neutral turns into a Serial Killer as of now is if the Pleb Leader is mislynched.

I feel like those same players don't read setups.

I also feel like those same players are the ones that get annoyed when I explain simple shit to them like they are three years old.

It would explain why people are going "emergerd Neut spotted" instead of scum-hunting.

[deathworlds]

Why are you Neutral-hunting? Why are you posting your thoughts on who the Neutral is to the chat?

There is literally no reason not too, lol.

[ika]

I feel like half the players don't realise that the Neutral isn't actually like, a Serial Killer and can win with the town since the only way that the Neutral turns into a Serial Killer as of now is if the Pleb Leader is mislynched.

I feel like those same players don't read setups.

I also feel like those same players are the ones that get annoyed when I explain simple shit to them like they are three years old.

It would explain why people are going "emergerd Neut spotted" instead of scum-hunting.

says the player who didnt realzie that the neutral was II and that pleb leader couldnt be healed

[Unknown1234]

So do we lynch, or do we like No Lynch every single day? I want the NK to be on our side.

I don't really like this. Gives me the vibe that you plan to do nothing in a helpless sense.

[MattZed]

who said im coaching the assasin? im just pointing out obvious flaws in your plan

you plan basicly says "follow town like a mindless slave"

im saying: "why should they do that? they have a brain of their own"

No, that's not what you said. You were talking about what the optimal play for Assasin is, and how it wasn't necessarily aligned with us. I fail to grasp why you would tell the Assasin that he shouldn't trust town. His best strategy isn't going to change, but how we work together as factions can, and you're jeopardizing that.

[Gyrlander]

Shortcuts for Setup and future Nights/Days have been added in the first post. @secondpassing

[Calix]

There is literally no reason not too, lol.

Ello Tunnelworlds. Where are those ""neutral slips"" that we know and love?

[Sino]

I feel like half the players don't realise that the Neutral isn't actually like, a Serial Killer and can win with the town since the only way that the Neutral turns into a Serial Killer as of now is if the Pleb Leader is mislynched.

I feel like those same players don't read setups.

I also feel like those same players are the ones that get annoyed when I explain simple shit to them like they are three years old.

It would explain why people are going "emergerd Neut spotted" instead of scum-hunting.

Once the assassin kills the Emperor, he's gonna go after the town, how does that help us ?

Not to mention it's in his best interest to have the Emperess survive as long as possible.

[SuperJack]

This is some early shade dropping from Dino himself. I can't tell if he's just playing really badly as scum or trying to impress Calix by seeming helpful.

How is this Shade Dropping? Explain more Detail.

[Unknown1234]

As an observation, most people are diverting attention solely on the neutral.

[MattZed]

There is literally no reason not too, lol.

Reason #1: It gives the three-scum faction a night kill if the guard kills him.

Reason #2: Was "scum gets a night kill" not enough of a reason for you?