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  1. ISO #1

    Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Now that gay rights are much more commonly accepted and widespread, transgender rights have become the recent progressive movement in politics. Things such as recognizing them as the gender they identify as, bathroom privilege, etc.

    I feel that I'm biased on this issue since I have close friends who are transgender. I think the issue has been diluted a lot by people who are jumping on a "trend", as I feel some people who claim to be transgender aren't genuine about their feelings. However, I think those who actually feel like they identify as the opposite gender should be recognized as such. Aside from just offering them basic respect (the biggest reason, IMO), it makes the most sense to do so from a societal point of view.

    Some claim that calling transgender people by the gender they identify with destroys the meaning of what it is to be a man or a woman. However, I argue that it's actually the opposite way around; that is, calling transgender people by their birth gender bases the meaning of what it is to be a man or a woman on arbitrary terms that don't make sense from a societal point of view. A trans man or woman, who outwardly presents as the gender they identify with and has undergone sex reassignment surgery, is practically indistinguishable from someone who has been that gender from birth. Brain structures in trans people have been shown to be "closer" to the gender they identify with than their birth gender, and physically they are outwardly indistinguishable. People against transgender rights claim biological bases, such as trans women being unable to give birth to children or trans people in general having a different genetic makeup from people who were born male/female. However, infertile women aren't considered to not be women, and there are rare genetic disorders where women are born with a set of male chromosomes, but those women are rarely considered to "actually" be men. With these in mind, it seems that people against trans rights base their definition of "men" and "women" on someone looking like a man or woman, with a specific exclusion for transgender people. I feel that calling people by the gender they outwardly express themselves as and identify with, trans or not, makes much more sense in everyday interaction.

    With regards to the bathroom issue, I feel it's a non-issue as it conflates transgender people with pedophiles or sexual predators. In fact, transgender people are more likely to be the victim of sexual violence than the general public, and rates of pedophilia/sexual violence among trans people are at the same level as the general public. Also, forcing transgender people to use the bathroom of their birth gender means that dudes like this will have to use the same bathroom as your daughter, which I doubt is the intent:


    What are your thoughts? pls be civil pls
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; November 6th, 2016 at 11:24 AM.

  2. ISO #2

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    In my local Mall. The toilets are all on one corridor, each with their own full door and own room without gaps. Meaning that any gender can use any bathroom, without having to worry about anyone taking a peak.
    Their are no Urinals (Sorry @yzb25 ).

    I frankly don't care much about what Gender you want to be, as long as you are happy and healthy.
    Cryptonic made this sig

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  3. ISO #3

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    In my local Mall. The toilets are all on one corridor, each with their own full door and own room without gaps. Meaning that any gender can use any bathroom, without having to worry about anyone taking a peak.
    Their are no Urinals (Sorry @yzb25 ).

    I frankly don't care much about what Gender you want to be, as long as you are happy and healthy.
    I've seen this as well in some bars/cafes, mostly in major cities. It's pretty cool.

  4. ISO #4

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    In my local Mall. The toilets are all on one corridor, each with their own full door and own room without gaps. Meaning that any gender can use any bathroom, without having to worry about anyone taking a peak.
    Their are no Urinals (Sorry @yzb25 ).

    I frankly don't care much about what Gender you want to be, as long as you are happy and healthy.
    Yuki has a slightly different opinion v)o.o)^
    Not only happy and healthy, please behave yourself nice and easy as well. I mean....we want no trouble right v(o.o(<?!?!?!?


    v)o.o)^
    A rare Yuki in ultimate form

    Yukitaka Oni ~Tafkal Hit Squad Member~

  5. ISO #5

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    As long as people fill out their biological sex on important government documents, then I'm all for it.
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  6. ISO #6

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    First thought/immediate reaction when seeing the post. "Oh dear god, not this again."

    Obviously, though, being as biased as I am (super progressive homosexual bernie loving democrat) I am all in favor of full rights for transgender people. I will correct the record that gay rights are not as widespread as we would like and there is still a huge fight there, one that we cannot ignore now just because we have marriage equality, at will states (working), we can be fired for our sexual orientation. We need to fight to get sexual orientation, and gender identity put on all laws pertaining to protections against discrimination.

    The first big step in this direction is voting for Hillary Clinton. A Trump/Pence administration will assuredly push back all of the progress we've made in the past number of years.

    Unfortunately, my community can be a little bit exclusionary *which is unfortunate* to trans people. So, I think it's a priority to make sure we are including trans persons in our continued fight for 100% equality. I try to live this in my own life, and I believe as trans becomes more mainstream, and as gay rights become more mainstream I think the gay community has really come around to the trans faction of our community. However, within the gay community there still isn't 100% acceptance, and that's why i think people like Caitlyn Jenner, and Laverne Cox giving voice to the trans community is so important.

    I think people should be able to use the bathroom of the sex they identify as. I think they should be able to change all legal documents to identify with their identified sex, probably not until after they have reassignment surgery though. I don't know though, I haven't given that too much thought.

    I think single sex bathrooms are stupid. A little sign on a door is not going to stop someone who is going to sexually assault someone else. I think private use bathrooms or family bathrooms or just open bathrooms with completely enclosed stalls should be made available. I find putting people in sex binaries is outdated. I long for a more open and accepting America.

    It begins with us.
    Last edited by PowersThatBe; November 6th, 2016 at 06:26 PM.

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  8. ISO #8

  9. ISO #9

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    First thought/immediate reaction when seeing the post. "Oh dear god, not this again."

    Obviously, though, being as biased as I am (super progressive homosexual bernie loving democrat) I am all in favor of full rights for transgender people. I will correct the record that gay rights are not as widespread as we would like and there is still a huge fight there, one that we cannot ignore now just because we have marriage equality, at will states (working), still can me we can be fired for our sexual orientation. We need to fight to get sexual orientation, and gender identity put on all laws pertaining to protections against discrimination.

    The first big step in this direction is voting for Hillary Clinton. A Trump/Pence administration will assuredly push back all of the progress we've made in the past number of years.

    Unfortunately, my community can be a little bit exclusionary *which is unfortunate* to trans people. So, I think it's a priority to make sure we are including trans persons in our continued fight for 100% equality. I try to live this in my own life, and I believe as trans becomes more mainstream, and as gay rights become more mainstream I think the gay community has really come around to the trans faction of our community. However, within the gay community there still isn't 100% acceptance, and that's why i think people like Caitlyn Jenner, and Laverne Cox giving voice to the trans community is so important.

    I think people should be able to use the bathroom of the sex they identify as. I think they should be able to change all legal documents to identify with their identified sex, probably not until after they have reassignment surgery though. I don't know though, I haven't given that too much thought.

    I think single sex bathrooms are stupid. A little sign on a door is not going to stop someone who is going to sexually assault someone else. I think private use bathrooms or family bathrooms or just open bathrooms with completely enclosed stalls should be made available. I find putting people sex binaries is outdated. I long for a more open and accepting America.

    It begins with us.
    Trump plz win. I wanna see USA collapse


    v)o.o)^
    A rare Yuki in ultimate form

    Yukitaka Oni ~Tafkal Hit Squad Member~

  10. ISO #10

  11. ISO #11

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    First thought/immediate reaction when seeing the post. "Oh dear god, not this again."

    Obviously, though, being as biased as I am (super progressive homosexual bernie loving democrat) I am all in favor of full rights for transgender people. I will correct the record that gay rights are not as widespread as we would like and there is still a huge fight there, one that we cannot ignore now just because we have marriage equality, at will states (working), still can me we can be fired for our sexual orientation. We need to fight to get sexual orientation, and gender identity put on all laws pertaining to protections against discrimination.

    The first big step in this direction is voting for Hillary Clinton. A Trump/Pence administration will assuredly push back all of the progress we've made in the past number of years.

    Unfortunately, my community can be a little bit exclusionary *which is unfortunate* to trans people. So, I think it's a priority to make sure we are including trans persons in our continued fight for 100% equality. I try to live this in my own life, and I believe as trans becomes more mainstream, and as gay rights become more mainstream I think the gay community has really come around to the trans faction of our community. However, within the gay community there still isn't 100% acceptance, and that's why i think people like Caitlyn Jenner, and Laverne Cox giving voice to the trans community is so important.

    I think people should be able to use the bathroom of the sex they identify as. I think they should be able to change all legal documents to identify with their identified sex, probably not until after they have reassignment surgery though. I don't know though, I haven't given that too much thought.

    I think single sex bathrooms are stupid. A little sign on a door is not going to stop someone who is going to sexually assault someone else. I think private use bathrooms or family bathrooms or just open bathrooms with completely enclosed stalls should be made available. I find putting people sex binaries is outdated. I long for a more open and accepting America.

    It begins with us.
    Also, the rest of the world :/ Not just America yeh?
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  12. ISO #12

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Also, the rest of the world :/ Not just America yeh?
    I think a larger part of the developed world is more open and accepting than America. At least a majority of Europe. Of course, i WOULD love the rest of the world to be more open and accepting. That goes without saying. However, given how America and it's policies directly impact me, and I can only speak of my experiences, given I live here.

    But yes. PROGRESS FOR ALL WORLD KIND.

  13. ISO #13

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    I think a larger part of the developed world is more open and accepting than America. At least a majority of Europe. Of course, i WOULD love the rest of the world to be more open and accepting. That goes without saying. However, given how America and it's policies directly impact me, and I can only speak of my experiences, given I live here.

    But yes. PROGRESS FOR ALL WORLD KIND.
    Plz don't progress to animal


    v)o.o)^
    A rare Yuki in ultimate form

    Yukitaka Oni ~Tafkal Hit Squad Member~

  14. ISO #14

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    I'm an ignorant person.
    What rights are we talking about now? I don't quite know what rights transgender people are missing.
    As for the restroom thing, I don't have an opinion on what law should be passed yet, but I think that people should be identified with their biological makeup for this.
    If one has undergone sex change surgery and is taking hormones they should go to the restroom that they now identify with.
    If one has not been taking hormones or just started, they should go to the restroom with the sex they were born with. It's more of a safety thing.


    >Regardless of what type of person one is, I think that people are deserving of a measure of respect. Also, as a disclaimer, I have no transgender friends or family.

  15. ISO #15

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
    What rights are we talking about now?
    Basically, Trans people are not fully accepted/protected under the law. Being transgendered is not widely considered "normal" or "accepted." I will break it down into some things for someone who has no experience with trans people to understand.

    1. Currently, laws that explicitly protect trans people are only offered in certain states.
    • "California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and the District of Columbia all have such laws. Their protections vary. For example, Nevada’s law bans discrimination in employment, housing, and public accommodations like restaurants, hospitals, and retail stores; Maine’s law covers those categories plus access to credit and education."


    *As you can see this is not the case in all 50 of our United States. :/

    2. Do federal laws protect transgender people against housing and employment discrimination?

    • "So far, Congress has been slow to pass laws that clearly protect people against discrimination based on gender identity. However, in recent years a series of court decisions and other developments have made more and more clear that federal laws against discrimination based on “sex” apply to discrimination based on gender identity."


    *While progress has been made under the Obama admin. it is still sort of case by case bases for people. Luckily, the civil rights act has had the "sex" portion stretched a bit to protect transgender people until more specific and detailed laws can be passed to specifically protect against various trans gender issues as they arise.

    3. Do state laws that bar sex or disability discrimination protect transgender people?
    • "Federal laws that prohibit disability discrimination specifically exclude coverage for gender dysphoria, as do some state disability laws (e.g., Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia). California, on the other hand, changed its disability law in 2000 to remove the exclusion and allow claims based on discrimination against someone for having gender dysphoria."


    4. Does the U.S. Constitution protect transgender people from discrimination?
    • "Although the Supreme Court has never considered this question, we think the answer is yes. It’s important to remember, however, that constitutional protections only cover discrimination or mistreatment by the government, not by private businesses or individuals.

      A few federal courts have ruled that the Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection under the law bars the government from discriminating against people based on their transgender status or gender transition. For example, a federal appeals court in 2011 ruled in favor of a transgender woman whose boss fired her from her state government job because he was uncomfortable with her gender transition. The court ruled that “discrimination against a transgender individual because of her gender nonconformity is sex discrimination, whether it’s described as being on the basis of sex or gender.” However, how courts view constitutional equality protections for transgender people is an area of the law that’s still evolving."


    *As you can see by the highlighted portion, government cannot discriminate but until specific language is introduced, there is a lot of grey areas with businesses and individuals when it comes to discriminating against transgendered people.

    5. Are there laws that specifically protect transgender students from harassment or discrimination?
    • "More and more, schools are protecting transgender students from harassment or discrimination. Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, and the District of Columbia have state laws that specifically protect transgender students in public schools from harassment and/or discrimination. Some of these state laws explicitly apply to education, while other states (including Colorado, Delaware, Illinois, Maine, New Jersey, Nevada, Vermont, and Washington) include public schools in their bans on gender identity discrimination in public accommodations. In Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Nevada, New Jersey, and the District of Columbia, gender identity discrimination laws also cover some or all non-religious private schools. Several states also have more general laws that ban bullying and harassment of any sort but don’t specifically mention gender identity."


    *Once again there is nothing that specifically protects persons that are transgendered in the broad scheme of things. Individual states have made progress, but it is not 100%.

    6. Does the law protect a transgender person’s right to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity?
    • "There’s no clear answer here because very few courts have considered this question and the results have been mixed. In two recent positive decisions, an administrative agency in Colorado in 2013 and the Maine Supreme Court in 2014 both ruled that under those states’ gender identity discrimination laws, transgender girls had the right to use girls’ restrooms at their public schools. On the other hand, a 2001 Minnesota Supreme Court decision found that even a law prohibiting gender identity discrimination didn’t necessarily protect a transgender woman’s right to use the women’s restroom at work"

    *As you can see, allowing someone to use the bathroom of their identified sex is very important...but it is something that is a very hot topic that is mixed at best. Contentious if realistic.

    7. Does changing the gender marker on a birth certificate legally change one’s sex?
    • "Although changing the gender marker on one’s birth certificate should put to rest all questions about one’s legal gender, there have been cases, usually involving marriages, where courts have ignored the corrected birth certificate. For example, when only different-sex marriage was allowed, courts in Kansas and Texas considered only the birth-assigned sex when ruling on a person’s sex for the purpose of deciding whether their marriage was valid. These courts ignored the fact that the transgender people in these cases had corrected birth certificates from the other states in which they were born. Similarly, in an Illinois case, a court looked past a transgender man’s reissued birth certificate, which had a male gender marker, and ruled that he should be considered female for purposes of state marriage law because there were other surgeries he hadn’t undergone that would in the court’s view “complete” his transition."


    *As you can see, even changing your sex on your birth cert does not necessarily have viewed as that gender. We need to make it so that corrected birth certificates are what must be followed as to protect the person who has changed their sex.


    I could continue with adding some more stuff, but I don't wanna make this too much of a text book post. I pulled the above quotes from my source b/c I was too lazy to write it in my own words. What I listed is only snippets. I will list my source below so that you can get the full details. It's broken down on the site by question and then a drop down for the answer.


    Source: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-right...people-and-law

  16. ISO #16

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Drunken Honesty:

    I absolutely fucking hate any laws that give rights to a specific group. Race, Sex, Sexual orientation, or culture. Its all bullshit. Granted its only necessary because bigots decide to interprate laws in a way that fucks these groups over but if simple blanket laws were passed and enforced things would be more fair. Just try to be Asian and get into an ivy league school in America. Your totally fucked because of laws designed to prevent racial discrimination and that's bullshit.

    On trans its a 2 sided coin for who the victim is. I had a friend that took a 'girl' home just to find out she had a dick. He is really religious and was totally fucked up that he had been making out with some guy and getting a semi-hand job. If he had beat the crap out of that guy/girl I wouldn't have blamed him one bit. If that had happened who would be the victim there? The asshole who decided to be violent or the asshole who decided to hide their sex? And what if they were post op? Would that make them any less of a dick even if the person they hooked up with didn't find out but would be offended?

    My opinion is that transgender is a decision. Someone chooses to take that path in life. When they do it comes with responsibilities. Romantically those social responsibilities are tough to own up to but they do exist. When they are neglected people get offended on a very deep level that may lead to violence but it is a result of their own actions. However learning you violated some basic principal that is part of the foundation of who you are without ever having the opportunity to make an informed decision is like getting raped.

    Im not sure if you could say that I lean left or right here. I support Racial/Gay/Trans/whatever the fuck rights all day in that I believe no discrimination is appropriate. I just think the legal system sucks at eliminating discrimination and usually ends up being counter productive when laws are passed that specify obligations or privileges to any sect of society.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  17. ISO #17

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Drunken Honesty:

    I absolutely fucking hate any laws that give rights to a specific group. Race, Sex, Sexual orientation, or culture. Its all bullshit. Granted its only necessary because bigots decide to interprate laws in a way that fucks these groups over but if simple blanket laws were passed and enforced things would be more fair. Just try to be Asian and get into an ivy league school in America. Your totally fucked because of laws designed to prevent racial discrimination and that's bullshit.

    On trans its a 2 sided coin for who the victim is. I had a friend that took a 'girl' home just to find out she had a dick. He is really religious and was totally fucked up that he had been making out with some guy and getting a semi-hand job. If he had beat the crap out of that guy/girl I wouldn't have blamed him one bit. If that had happened who would be the victim there? The asshole who decided to be violent or the asshole who decided to hide their sex? And what if they were post op? Would that make them any less of a dick even if the person they hooked up with didn't find out but would be offended?

    My opinion is that transgender is a decision. Someone chooses to take that path in life. When they do it comes with responsibilities. Romantically those social responsibilities are tough to own up to but they do exist. When they are neglected people get offended on a very deep level that may lead to violence but it is a result of their own actions. However learning you violated some basic principal that is part of the foundation of who you are without ever having the opportunity to make an informed decision is like getting raped.

    Im not sure if you could say that I lean left or right here. I support Racial/Gay/Trans/whatever the fuck rights all day in that I believe no discrimination is appropriate. I just think the legal system sucks at eliminating discrimination and usually ends up being counter productive when laws are passed that specify obligations or privileges to any sect of society.
    obviously the victim is the transgendered. your friend was obviously attracted to her until she took off her pants. you wouldnt beat a woman just because she took off her panties and had herpes; the fact you think differently about transgendered just highlights your ignorant bigotry.

  18. ISO #18

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    What kind of guy who is "really religious" would be fine to engage in premarital sex, but it would be "fucked up" to be with a trans. He's not religious, he's just homo/transphobic.
    Yes, he should've probably told him, but the trans probably thought it was obvious. Or maybe he did tell him, and he was just drunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  19. ISO #19

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Drunken Honesty:

    I absolutely fucking hate any laws that give rights to a specific group. Race, Sex, Sexual orientation, or culture. Its all bullshit. Granted its only necessary because bigots decide to interprate laws in a way that fucks these groups over but if simple blanket laws were passed and enforced things would be more fair. Just try to be Asian and get into an ivy league school in America. Your totally fucked because of laws designed to prevent racial discrimination and that's bullshit.
    In this case, the conversation isn't about giving them special status, it's protecting them from active discrimination. It's illegal to refuse to hire people because they're black, or because they're a woman, if they meet all other criteria. However, currently it's fully legal to refuse to hire a transgender person because you don't like transgendered people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    On trans its a 2 sided coin for who the victim is. I had a friend that took a 'girl' home just to find out she had a dick. He is really religious and was totally fucked up that he had been making out with some guy and getting a semi-hand job. If he had beat the crap out of that guy/girl I wouldn't have blamed him one bit. If that had happened who would be the victim there? The asshole who decided to be violent or the asshole who decided to hide their sex? And what if they were post op? Would that make them any less of a dick even if the person they hooked up with didn't find out but would be offended?
    I mean, I get that your friend was pissed, but it's kind of messed up to beat someone up because they're transgendered and you didn't realize. If the girl your friend took home was actively hiding something then it'd be kind of a dick move, but I don't really get what the alternative is. Should transgendered people announce to everyone they interact with that they have a dick/vagina just in case they end up fucking them? Perhaps the person in question thought your friend realized that she was trans.

    For the record, personally, I would have a similar reaction if I was in the same situation. However, I consciously understand that it isn't a "rational" reaction, and that it's based off of bigotry that I've internalized.

    My opinion is that transgender is a decision. Someone chooses to take that path in life. When they do it comes with responsibilities. Romantically those social responsibilities are tough to own up to but they do exist. When they are neglected people get offended on a very deep level that may lead to violence but it is a result of their own actions. However learning you violated some basic principal that is part of the foundation of who you are without ever having the opportunity to make an informed decision is like getting raped.
    Being transgender is absolutely not a decision. There is evidence that brain structures in transgender people are closer to the sex that they identify with rather than the sex they were born as. If you woke up tomorrow and you were suddenly in the body of a woman, wouldn't you be kind of weirded out and want to transition back to being a male?

  20. ISO #20

    Re: Thoughts on transgender rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo View Post
    obviously the victim is the transgendered. your friend was obviously attracted to her until she took off her pants. you wouldnt beat a woman just because she took off her panties and had herpes; the fact you think differently about transgendered just highlights your ignorant bigotry.
    It would be every bit as fucked up to fuck someone without a condom knowing you have some incurable STD. (If not more so)
    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    In this case, the conversation isn't about giving them special status, it's protecting them from active discrimination. It's illegal to refuse to hire people because they're black, or because they're a woman, if they meet all other criteria. However, currently it's fully legal to refuse to hire a transgender person because you don't like transgendered people.
    I agree that this is wrong. Im just saying that legislation should be worded against discrimination of any kind as opposed to specifically identifying groups. Specifically identifying groups allows for discrimination. Case and point would be the fact you cant refuse to hire a girl because you don't like women but can do the exact same thing to a trans gender. Women got rights but sexism was not eliminated.

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I mean, I get that your friend was pissed, but it's kind of messed up to beat someone up because they're transgendered and you didn't realize. If the girl your friend took home was actively hiding something then it'd be kind of a dick move, but I don't really get what the alternative is. Should transgendered people announce to everyone they interact with that they have a dick/vagina just in case they end up fucking them? Perhaps the person in question thought your friend realized that she was trans.

    For the record, personally, I would have a similar reaction if I was in the same situation. However, I consciously understand that it isn't a "rational" reaction, and that it's based off of bigotry that I've internalized.
    Im not saying that they should announce it to everyone. But somewhere before getting naked is a good idea. A core ethical concept in any model is respecting someones autonomy. People have to be allowed to make informed decisions for themselves. Its a basic assumption that a persons sex is identified by how they look. When someone exercises deception I have less sympathy for any consequences they suffer as a result; especially when it can be damaging to a person. Im not saying they deserve to get beat up. Just that in this specific situation I am outlining they are not a total victim. The legal precedence of this concept heavily influences the American judicial system.
    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Being transgender is absolutely not a decision. There is evidence that brain structures in transgender people are closer to the sex that they identify with rather than the sex they were born as. If you woke up tomorrow and you were suddenly in the body of a woman, wouldn't you be kind of weirded out and want to transition back to being a male?
    I disagree. I have read into this before and totally agree that the desire to be a different sex is not something that can be helped. But if you have an operation or if you decide to present yourself as and call yourself a different sex a decision is made there. You could also say that heroin addicts brains are wired to want the drug so its not a choice for them to shoot up. The desire is not a choice- the action is.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

 

 

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