S-FM 209: Surreptitious: The Game of Spies

[Calix]

Let's say if everyone vote group 1, i know it doesn't mean game going to lynch entire player in the group, but does that mean the next day, people have to pick the group again or only can lynch the player in the group 1? It's kind of....confused v(o.o(<

Your query can be found here:

When all members of the mafia are lynched from a group, the remaining members of that will join the remaining group(s) as evenly as possible but will be random what players will join what group where applicable.I will be telling all the players what groups all players belong to at the beginning of DP: I for all days.
The group that was chosen will have a player lynched from that group.
The group that is chosen to lynch from cannot vote for lynch.
The same group may be chosen on consecutive days.
Mafia has to lynch from the Group that was chosen to lynch from.
All night actions proceed as normal.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Pick any group on any day.

I also believe there is a hidden mechanic to prevent town from losing on night 1. There is no way with 4 votes that it is possible for town to lose after one miss lynch.

I don't understand, there are 11 town, let's say if we mislynch today and mafia kill a town, that mean there are still 9 town left (am I right or there is something I am wrong?)

[Yukitaka Oni]

Your query can be found here:

Already read it but....I don't have any examples to understand it more clearly. That's my main problem

[Calix]

I don't understand, there are 11 town, let's say if we mislynch today and mafia kill a town, that mean there are still 9 town left (am I right or there is something I am wrong?)

Mafia's win condition is to gain majority among any one of the groups.

One of the groups has 2 scum. The other two groups has 1 scum.

GROUP 1	GROUP 2	GROUP 3
Titus Shapelog MattZed Klingoncelt Alles_Paletti	Calix JealousTL Slayer PLZLEAVEDUCKK Sprunce	Gingerape RLVG Kovath Yukitaka Oni Never Unlucky

So no, we cannot determine how many mislynches we have afforded to us. I am going to act as if we don't have any.

[Calix]

I'm only paging this because I suspect that the no-posters will also have queries over the setup and using the first 24 hours to ensure that people know what they're doing seems like the best move to me.

Anyhow, I'll be popping off for a bit. I expect SOMETHING to happen by the time I get back. Can't prod you all forever.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Mafia's win condition is to gain majority among any one of the groups.

One of the groups has 2 scum. The other two groups has 1 scum.

GROUP 1	GROUP 2	GROUP 3
Titus Shapelog MattZed Klingoncelt Alles_Paletti	Calix JealousTL Slayer PLZLEAVEDUCKK Sprunce	Gingerape RLVG Kovath Yukitaka Oni Never Unlucky

So no, we cannot determine how many mislynches we have afforded to us. I am going to act as if we don't have any.

I see. Thanks b)o.o)^!

[Yukitaka Oni]

No wonder why this setup have a lot of town power....

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

>making reads lists



That aside, doing that is a dangerous play for scum because they can slip in so many ways by dumping all of their reads into one post for everyone to see.

Your #11 point seems like it would apply here, actually. Looks like everything you said has enough backing in the thread and isn't making any stretches or using hidden information which makes your "I don't have a rolecard" post seem more legit > WIFOM9000 master plan.

In regards to reads, I think the majority of the scum are inactive. It doesn't feel like there's been any kind of scum manipulation or disruption going on in the thread - most of it was just Jealous/ me/ you prancing around and singing kumbaya and nobody was trying to break that up at all.

I laugh at this.

Did your first comment indicate you dislike the idea of read list or more that it is funny the person who does not know their alignment is trying to tell people their reads.

Read lists are just a staple of my play as every alignment. It

1) gives me a way to not get complacent on my reads and makes me remind myself of why I read people x
2) I am able to show a consistent (or be called out for inconsistent) game.

I am a bit worried that you are accepting my claim as true based on this post. You state that the game has just been US 4 prancing around. I don't need perfect information to give out accurate reads at this point in the game because I have been apart of everything, and as I am sure you know, I interject into fucking everything.

Then there is the whole "i don't think the scum have been manipulating us". I agree with this 100% if you are town, but if you are mafia this game it falls in line with what I would expect.

To clarify, if you just said "duck I think you could actually be telling the truth based on your reads list" I would expect it was because of my kovath read and not that my reads are feasible at this point in the game. You laugh at the main thing pointing to me being the real duck which I am sad about.

My dog keeps fucking up my train of thought, I don't even know where I was going or if I had a point in this entire post.

[Titus]

Calix, I am on board with frying Yuki as well. It's a joke in RVS screams lynch them from my own personal experience. I'd prefer group 2 but that desire is waning since I can only get Yuki there.

Basically, I am ok with Yuki or ginger flipping.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Calix, I am on board with frying Yuki as well. It's a joke in RVS screams lynch them from my own personal experience. I'd prefer group 2 but that desire is waning since I can only get Yuki there.

Basically, I am ok with Yuki or ginger flipping.

In a normal game I would lynch ginger, but with the potential to have 0 miss lynches, are you more confident that they are mafia or that they could be mafia and will give a lot of information from their flip?

Yuki is more of a day 2 player from my one game experience, but I am willing to entertain this lynch.

My lynch order from group 3(1 being want dead the most)

1)rlvg
2)kovath
3)yuki
4)Ginger
5)NU

I think my list might be a huge mistake though. RLVG is top just because of lack of activity, and the next three players in line all have reasonable spots to be pinged out for as scum. I think kovath being able to speak more, hes in the thread, and NU posting will help clear this up.

Hmm actually rlvg might just be a terrible lynch at this point.... fuck me.

[Kovath]

In a normal game I would lynch ginger, but with the potential to have 0 miss lynches, are you more confident that they are mafia or that they could be mafia and will give a lot of information from their flip?

Yuki is more of a day 2 player from my one game experience, but I am willing to entertain this lynch.

My lynch order from group 3(1 being want dead the most)

1)rlvg
2)kovath
3)yuki
4)Ginger
5)NU

I think my list might be a huge mistake though. RLVG is top just because of lack of activity, and the next three players in line all have reasonable spots to be pinged out for as scum. I think kovath being able to speak more, hes in the thread, and NU posting will help clear this up.

Hmm actually rlvg might just be a terrible lynch at this point.... fuck me.

Your one-game experience with Yuki was IM, wasn't it? How can you judge "day 2 player" off that?

What made you change your mind about RLVG?

Also, Calix is correct and I am currently out-of-town in a tournament. I will try my best but nowhere close to my normal activity levels. I'll be present for several-hour intervals around days.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Your one-game experience with Yuki was IM, wasn't it? How can you judge "day 2 player" off that?

What made you change your mind about RLVG?

Also, Calix is correct and I am currently out-of-town in a tournament. I will try my best but nowhere close to my normal activity levels. I'll be present for several-hour intervals around days.

Oh whoops, yeah that was an error by me. I was thinking about how he stepped up his game in the second half of the day and mistook it for a day 2, smh.

I changed my mind about rlvg because while I do not feel any of you, yuki, or ginger have enough mafia credit to be lynched currently, I see enough potential for mafia in you three where the odds are at least one of you is probably a hit, and rlvg is prob inno child. Well not inno child, but not a good lynch for day 1,

[Kovath]

Oh whoops, yeah that was an error by me. I was thinking about how he stepped up his game in the second half of the day and mistook it for a day 2, smh.

I changed my mind about rlvg because while I do not feel any of you, yuki, or ginger have enough mafia credit to be lynched currently, I see enough potential for mafia in you three where the odds are at least one of you is probably a hit, and rlvg is prob inno child. Well not inno child, but not a good lynch for day 1,

What do you even mean here lol, you first say he is probably a town role and then just say he's not a good lynch?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

What do you even mean here lol, you first say he is probably a town role and then just say he's not a good lynch?

We know that there is one mafia in every group. I started the game wanting to lynch him based on his recent activity. The game progressed, and three people in his group have been viewed as somewhat scummy. It is likely that one of the scummy people is actual scum. This means he is likely town. Upon rethinking as I was typing I realized, well he could still be in the group with 2 mafia, so maybe he is not town, but to lynch him under the assumption that he is in the 2 mafia group and over scummier players would be bad.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Your one-game experience with Yuki was IM, wasn't it? How can you judge "day 2 player" off that?

What made you change your mind about RLVG?

Also, Calix is correct and I am currently out-of-town in a tournament. I will try my best but nowhere close to my normal activity levels. I'll be present for several-hour intervals around days.

Leave it be, he didn't know i played more than 100 games

[Kovath]

Here is what we know:

1) If I am lieing, I am always mafia and doing this
2) I will likely have cooridnated this in night chat already and my partner will be going along with it in some way or fashion?

If you can find town or mafia motivation in what happened to me share it, and use it for or against me.

I have stated many times in previous games that I DO NOT plan my opening posts or plays. I do everything as it happens, if you think that is alignment indicative then read me in that way, because guess what I can't fucking tell you if you are right or wrong about me.

2. Wait, did the mafia even have a N0 chat?

zzzzz I hope I am mafia, because this post has calix as my new top town. Her thinking literally has mimic'ed mine. While this is not exactly indicative that I am the same alignment as her (assuming I am infact town), it does show that she wants to be able to vote on people SHE KNOWS HOW TO READ. Town perspective from calix so far IMO.

Also, I want to say Calix not bandwagoning titus when she was gifted an option is potentially a

1) calix is town, titus is mafia
2) calix is town, titus is town and open minded (what I am slightly leaning towards)
3) calix is mafia WITH ME, titus is town.

I don't think I am ever mafia with titus based on this opening reaction by her.

The setup has nothing at all about a scum N0 chat (unless it's a hidden mechanic in which case... fk me lol). So, this exchange strikes me as strange because Duck first suggests N0 coordination as what would probably be the case if he was mafia and had pre-planned this. Assuming that Duck has fully read through the setup, why wouldn't Duck immediately rule out that possibility for him as mafia in either his original post or after Calix brought it up? Or at least make some comment about it to reinforce his point that he wasn't lying in his claim?

Drunk Duck might be the explanation for this, however, and I don't think he was lying about being drunk lol. The primary no-lynch perspective otherwise I might see for this would be that he is approaching this game as town and thus brushes past it because then he would 'know' that he was town, but I am unsure whether he is able to so strongly believe it. All that said, there will probably be better lynches than Duck today.

[RLVG]

I don't know who Shapelog and Alles_Paletti is, but wow, MattZed and Titus in the same group? And Klingoncelt too?

I'm not voting Group 1, just hope that the three of them are not scum lol.

-vote Group 2

-vote Group 1

Guess this is the part where we talk about the setup? Not sure if I understand it correctly myself, but each group has 1 or 2 scum in it, right?

Assuming that's correct, we already have a lot of information about which scum teams AREN'T possible in the game.

I don't think we're ready to guess scum among MattZed, Titus and Klingoncelt.

Vote count isn't working. @Cryptonic , can you help me out here?

It requires to vote a player with the following existing name for it to work, so we can easily vote for banned players or admins that's not part of the game.
Assuming it has been fixed though in some way, but a headsup on how it originally works.

I had planned to vote on my own group, however since I do not know my alignment, I personally think it would be best to vote group 3 and lynch RLVG. There are too many players I do not know to risk going after new players, and I think it is better to see waht they have. RLvg has shown consistenlyy that he is posting below the normal threshold, and is more trolly. I think lynching him will be good for town regardless of flip. Also, I just pray others don't have the same or equally retarded fucking PM.

Sometimes I'm the most active player, believe it or not. Are you sure it's just nothing personal against me?
If that's the case, I'd like to have personal feelings to a minimum and more of the Mafia element instead.

Also this is scummy as fuck, "I think lynching him would be good for town REGARDLESS OF FLIP".

Also, I want to say Calix not bandwagoning titus when she was gifted an option is potentially a

1) calix is town, titus is mafia
2) calix is town, titus is town and open minded (what I am slightly leaning towards)
3) calix is mafia WITH ME, titus is town.

I don't think I am ever mafia with titus based on this opening reaction by her.

Are you attempting to set up a False Dilemma Titus and Calix?

RLVG is a fine player, however in cat and mouse he ONLY posted troll comments and then went MIA for several days. Then I saw one or two more games where I believe he did not post at all? Other players who were in those games can comment on that, and what they think of RLVG's recent posting habits. If he steps his play up this game this is all out the window obviously.

1. I don't only troll comment, I sometimes mix it with the serious though. Look on ThePaladin's & RLVG's Chess Game on that FM game, we were discussing seriously while playing Chess on the FM lol.

2. I went MIA because my computer commited suicide and I had to repair. Was replaced out due to no replying to the Host, I told them what happened and asked if there's a chance to replace in again on that same slot if something happened.

3. I'm a god damn European! I'm not going to be deep active with particular players.

THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THIS GAME WHO KNOWS MY ALIGNMENT IS THE MAFIA. Whether it is 3+me, or 4 people who know each other, they know my alignment. I think the way NU worded this post was NATURAL, not forced or fabricated and was completely TOWN.

I consider it a logical fallacy of some kind to assume that "the only people in this game who knows my alignment is the Mafia", some players might get a clear read based on what you're doing and how you're doing regardless of their own alignment. Also Town are prone to having both a clear scum and town read.

I am somewhat lenient with this rule, but there is a rule about quote manipulation. It is there so people are not making fake quotes saying someone said something they did not - ment to eliminate malicious quoting techniques, but I DO expect people to clean up their quote tags when they preview their posts.

So please, clean up quotes before making them, especially if you already see that someone misquoted the post you are quoting.

Thanks! It's extremely infuriating to look at lol.

I will say though IF I EVER ROLL NEUTRAL KILLING I WILL JUMP OFF THE FIRST BRIDGE I SEE IN REAL LIFE.

I keep quoting you because you say weird shit like this lol.

That totally werren't an appropriate sentence, just sayin'.

I am the only player who has mentioned anything that is not standard mafia 101.

I am known for making bizarre plays, making my claim questionable even if I am town read. If a player like kovath rng'ed this mechanic than everyone would, and probably should instantly believe him.

Quick was excited for this save, I CANT be the only one who knows something that the rest of town does not. If nobody claims claims it means either they have positive changes, unknown changes, I am a fucked like goats in cabbage town, or one of the sides was too strong so this was done to make it somewhat more balanced (isolated mafia, vs few TPR's) or (Town is strong and has an invest, and I am actually a town)

Am I taking fucking crazy pills?

What the fuck am I reading?

So let's unfuck it a bit, you're claiming to be Setup Power of some kind? Some kind of guy that can manipulate the setup?
And you think you're the only one with this Setup Power?
Which makes it more significant of that if anyone knew your alignment, they're scum?

I would rather say that I am analytical and questioning, but I can see the cautious/paranoid vibe there too. I wouldn't say I am averse to such a characterization. I'd rather be paranoid than give free passes.

That's a good personality, except I don't see enough questions for this claim.

I am having issues determining my alignment. There has been a fair amount of pressure and backing off of me that makes me unsure if I am mafia, and they are backing off of me or if I am town and mafia are distancing/not really yet pouncing on me. If I am town, mafia WILL pressure me, likely for things that do not warrant the level of pressure given.

Only way for you to not be sure of your alignment is if you have the role name of roles that's of two factions and you didn't ask the Host what it belongs to.
They are : Rolestopper, Voyeur, Follower, Motion Detector, Neopolitian.

I doubt you'd slip on something so critical though as to reveal you're a TPR of some kind.

Oh, I'll use this text color so people passively think I'm town since town is green ^^

Then I will use this color to make people passively think of my alignment.

Yea...so only the really bad guys will vote for me. So for sure get them if they do. ^^

Until a random Town decides to vote a Town because they think they're scum. Anyone can vote anyone except themselves.

traitor+amnesiac would mean mafia only has a working team of 2 right now, and I do not see how that would be the case.

AMNESIAC?!

Freudian slip or are you making a stupid slip of trying to gambit a role that's not in the game?

Very true. How should we preemptively plan for this possibility?

My thoughts are as follows: If we lynch from Group 3 (for example) and do not hit scum, it becomes 2-2. That's game lose for us, right? We have to be very careful with where and why we go to a certain group, it seems.

Night actions could lead to Scum being killed or preventing a kill, so even if we mislynch it doesn't necessarily mean we lose based on odds and lynching power.

Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't all of those remaining members be confirmed as town? Because the assignment of players to other groups can only happen when all of the scum in a given group are dead.

Exactly, we confirm players this way. The question is though, is a hidden mechanic going to give the Traitor a free pass if there's one?

SO what do we think the over/under is for RLvg's post count this game?

Dude, I were asleep. Stop trying to purposely paint me as scummy based on my absense. You don't even get a proper read of me if I don't even give you any material that you can cherrypick on.

Also I am going to reiterate this again, You can NOT have a town lean on me. IT IS ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE. The one way it would be possible is if you scum read certain people and think they are against me, thus making me town barring any distancing/bussing. However, your post mentioned that you do not suspect anyone too heavily yet. I do not know my alignment, and we have already agreed that If I am lying, I am only lying as MAFIA!!

True, there can't be a town lean and it's impossible, because by default this whole game you're scummy lol.
+1 points to Duck for being correct. I don't townlean him.

You might be right about me being mafia, and in the two mafia group. I actually really like this comment as it seems to be a read not easily thought of and outside of the box. The only downside is that would mean I hate my alignment, and that I am stuck with either a mod player or spruance LOL NO FUCK THAT.

MattZed is the most definitive mod player, so are you saying you could be in a team specifically with Zed and Spruance?

Stop painting yourself as scummy.

Come on, why you aim me so badly? What about your illuminati buddy RLVG v(o.o(<?!?! I didn't make any plan yet

Yeah, we're totally illuminati pals together, together with Sen(pai).
Considered though, an odd statement coming from you. Is it a subtle guess on teams?

NU, RLVG and Kovath aren't terrible, but you're dealing with the best ;) However RLVG has been doing his damnedest to impersonate ika in recent games while Kovath is busy for the next few days so that makes me wonder wherever they'll even turn up to respond to being voted for.

Since no one can understand this... PICTURE

14. Kovath- Never lynching him today, he is likely mafia. Yes I mean't what I just typed. He is busy so he will be a tough read for day 1, but town Kovath does not open the way he did this game. I do not want to lynch him because my day 1 read on him sucks, my day 2 read on him is amazing, and I forgot my third reason, but I promise you it sucked.

So your read on him sucks but you don't want to lynch him because he is likely Mafia.
Okay!

Calix, I am on board with frying Yuki as well. It's a joke in RVS screams lynch them from my own personal experience. I'd prefer group 2 but that desire is waning since I can only get Yuki there.

Basically, I am ok with Yuki or ginger flipping.

I don't think I ever have seen you want to lynch based on personal experience.

My lynch order from group 3(1 being want dead the most)

1)rlvg
2)kovath
3)yuki
4)Ginger
5)NU

I think my list might be a huge mistake though. RLVG is top just because of lack of activity, and the next three players in line all have reasonable spots to be pinged out for as scum. I think kovath being able to speak more, hes in the thread, and NU posting will help clear this up.

Hmm actually rlvg might just be a terrible lynch at this point.... fuck me.

So I'm on the top spite having not posted anything at all.
Werren't I a Town role when I was replaced out due to computer suiciding?

I really feel it's more personal.

Then there's Kovath who you don't want to lynch based on a shitty read, but I'm the more shitty read.

[Never Unlucky]

Catching up.

You do use it to manipulate others because if there's one thing you adore, it's being widely town-read. Hence why this move of yours stands out as it does.

Reminds me of Calix.

The main advantages fake-claiming No-Alignment has as scum is to take yourself off the table for the lynch. However, mafia in that position would want their group voted so that the chances of a ML are higher. Also you could have drawn less attention to yourself by simply voting for a different group and thus save yourself that way.

This leads me to a concern. If he himself doesn't know his alignment, do the scum know his alignment (by POE or by seeing his name in the groupscum chat)? If not, that makes it a very good WIFOM play on his part. If his alignment is town, then he is discouraging the scum to push for him as he may be one of theirs.

Also, it cant be random, or if all 4 mafia go in one group, the game just ends lol.

About this setup spec discussion between Duck and JTL -- assuming this is 2-1-1, it makes up for a good NKA. Scum are most likely to kill a player from the group they have 2 members in as they just need to eliminate 2 players from this group rather than 4. Let's keep that in mind.

If group 2 was selected, are you able to vote based on your reads and not personal bias against that player?

I don't want personal bias to shape your reads.

Naturally, yes.

Jealous’s tone gives me a town feel so far. Early T-R on Jealous.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

The setup has nothing at all about a scum N0 chat (unless it's a hidden mechanic in which case... fk me lol). So, this exchange strikes me as strange because Duck first suggests N0 coordination as what would probably be the case if he was mafia and had pre-planned this. Assuming that Duck has fully read through the setup, why wouldn't Duck immediately rule out that possibility for him as mafia in either his original post or after Calix brought it up? Or at least make some comment about it to reinforce his point that he wasn't lying in his claim?

Drunk Duck might be the explanation for this, however, and I don't think he was lying about being drunk lol. The primary no-lynch perspective otherwise I might see for this would be that he is approaching this game as town and thus brushes past it because then he would 'know' that he was town, but I am unsure whether he is able to so strongly believe it. All that said, there will probably be better lynches than Duck today.

Oh I glossed over that line. Like I have told you many times, I do not plan or edit my posts ever.

-Calix questions my negative utility claim
-I think to myself what the fuck does this accomplish as town and mafia.
-Town has no reason to do it from what I see
-Mafia has no reason to do it by themselves as it just makes them stand out and puts a target on their back. This is where I got the idea that it has to be coordinated. I know there is no night 0 chat, but in trying to entertain a world from your guys perspective that is the way I went in my thinking.
-If anything this should show you that I am in fact no alignment because if I am mafia pulling a play, I clearly did not think it through. I guess you could think I was playing dumb and doing one of those "GUYS i THOUGHT THERE WERE ONLY 2 MAFIA, I CANT BE MAFIA", but I think you know me well enough to know that is not really my style.

I really do not think I am even making sense at this point

[RLVG]

-If anything this should show you that I am in fact no alignment because if I am mafia pulling a play, I clearly did not think it through.

Duck, answer me this.

I am a town role who received sufficient coloring, as in I'm a Town Role who's part of the Alignment.
Of course this means I will play out my own win condition over the fact I am a Town.

Where does this bring you? Did you seriously not get the same treatment?
What win condition are you aiming for, considering going for the opposite win condition is against the rules of the game?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I don't know who Shapelog and Alles_Paletti is, but wow, MattZed and Titus in the same group? And Klingoncelt too?

I'm not voting Group 1, just hope that the three of them are not scum lol.

-vote Group 2

I don't think we're ready to guess scum among MattZed, Titus and Klingoncelt.



It requires to vote a player with the following existing name for it to work, so we can easily vote for banned players or admins that's not part of the game.
Assuming it has been fixed though in some way, but a headsup on how it originally works.



Sometimes I'm the most active player, believe it or not. Are you sure it's just nothing personal against me?
If that's the case, I'd like to have personal feelings to a minimum and more of the Mafia element instead.

Also this is scummy as fuck, "I think lynching him would be good for town REGARDLESS OF FLIP".



Are you attempting to set up a False Dilemma Titus and Calix?



1. I don't only troll comment, I sometimes mix it with the serious though. Look on ThePaladin's & RLVG's Chess Game on that FM game, we were discussing seriously while playing Chess on the FM lol.

2. I went MIA because my computer commited suicide and I had to repair. Was replaced out due to no replying to the Host, I told them what happened and asked if there's a chance to replace in again on that same slot if something happened.

3. I'm a god damn European! I'm not going to be deep active with particular players.



I consider it a logical fallacy of some kind to assume that "the only people in this game who knows my alignment is the Mafia", some players might get a clear read based on what you're doing and how you're doing regardless of their own alignment. Also Town are prone to having both a clear scum and town read.



Thanks! It's extremely infuriating to look at lol.



I keep quoting you because you say weird shit like this lol.

That totally werren't an appropriate sentence, just sayin'.



What the fuck am I reading?

So let's unfuck it a bit, you're claiming to be Setup Power of some kind? Some kind of guy that can manipulate the setup?
And you think you're the only one with this Setup Power?
Which makes it more significant of that if anyone knew your alignment, they're scum?



That's a good personality, except I don't see enough questions for this claim.



Only way for you to not be sure of your alignment is if you have the role name of roles that's of two factions and you didn't ask the Host what it belongs to.
They are : Rolestopper, Voyeur, Follower, Motion Detector, Neopolitian.

I doubt you'd slip on something so critical though as to reveal you're a TPR of some kind.



Then I will use this color to make people passively think of my alignment.



Until a random Town decides to vote a Town because they think they're scum. Anyone can vote anyone except themselves.



AMNESIAC?!

Freudian slip or are you making a stupid slip of trying to gambit a role that's not in the game?



Night actions could lead to Scum being killed or preventing a kill, so even if we mislynch it doesn't necessarily mean we lose based on odds and lynching power.



Exactly, we confirm players this way. The question is though, is a hidden mechanic going to give the Traitor a free pass if there's one?



Dude, I were asleep. Stop trying to purposely paint me as scummy based on my absense. You don't even get a proper read of me if I don't even give you any material that you can cherrypick on.



True, there can't be a town lean and it's impossible, because by default this whole game you're scummy lol.
+1 points to Duck for being correct. I don't townlean him.



MattZed is the most definitive mod player, so are you saying you could be in a team specifically with Zed and Spruance?

Stop painting yourself as scummy.



Yeah, we're totally illuminati pals together, together with Sen(pai).
Considered though, an odd statement coming from you. Is it a subtle guess on teams?



Since no one can understand this... PICTURE





So your read on him sucks but you don't want to lynch him because he is likely Mafia.
Okay!



I don't think I ever have seen you want to lynch based on personal experience.



So I'm on the top spite having not posted anything at all.
Werren't I a Town role when I was replaced out due to computer suiciding?

I really feel it's more personal.

Then there's Kovath who you don't want to lynch based on a shitty read, but I'm the more shitty read.

First of all, I don't have anything personal against you. I was just concerned you would not be around to contribute. I literally say at the end of the post you are a bad lynch.

And second of all read my first post, because you just read everything from me out of context.

[RLVG]

And second of all read my first post, because you just read everything from me out of context.

Maybe I am, but this is Mafia so subliminal messages is a thing, breadcrumbing and all that jazz.
You're saying I read incorrectly?

[Yukitaka Oni]

I don't know who Shapelog and Alles_Paletti is, but wow, MattZed and Titus in the same group? And Klingoncelt too?

I'm not voting Group 1, just hope that the three of them are not scum lol.

-vote Group 2

I don't think we're ready to guess scum among MattZed, Titus and Klingoncelt.



It requires to vote a player with the following existing name for it to work, so we can easily vote for banned players or admins that's not part of the game.
Assuming it has been fixed though in some way, but a headsup on how it originally works.



Sometimes I'm the most active player, believe it or not. Are you sure it's just nothing personal against me?
If that's the case, I'd like to have personal feelings to a minimum and more of the Mafia element instead.

Also this is scummy as fuck, "I think lynching him would be good for town REGARDLESS OF FLIP".



Are you attempting to set up a False Dilemma Titus and Calix?



1. I don't only troll comment, I sometimes mix it with the serious though. Look on ThePaladin's & RLVG's Chess Game on that FM game, we were discussing seriously while playing Chess on the FM lol.

2. I went MIA because my computer commited suicide and I had to repair. Was replaced out due to no replying to the Host, I told them what happened and asked if there's a chance to replace in again on that same slot if something happened.

3. I'm a god damn European! I'm not going to be deep active with particular players.



I consider it a logical fallacy of some kind to assume that "the only people in this game who knows my alignment is the Mafia", some players might get a clear read based on what you're doing and how you're doing regardless of their own alignment. Also Town are prone to having both a clear scum and town read.



Thanks! It's extremely infuriating to look at lol.



I keep quoting you because you say weird shit like this lol.

That totally werren't an appropriate sentence, just sayin'.



What the fuck am I reading?

So let's unfuck it a bit, you're claiming to be Setup Power of some kind? Some kind of guy that can manipulate the setup?
And you think you're the only one with this Setup Power?
Which makes it more significant of that if anyone knew your alignment, they're scum?



That's a good personality, except I don't see enough questions for this claim.



Only way for you to not be sure of your alignment is if you have the role name of roles that's of two factions and you didn't ask the Host what it belongs to.
They are : Rolestopper, Voyeur, Follower, Motion Detector, Neopolitian.

I doubt you'd slip on something so critical though as to reveal you're a TPR of some kind.



Then I will use this color to make people passively think of my alignment.



Until a random Town decides to vote a Town because they think they're scum. Anyone can vote anyone except themselves.



AMNESIAC?!

Freudian slip or are you making a stupid slip of trying to gambit a role that's not in the game?



Night actions could lead to Scum being killed or preventing a kill, so even if we mislynch it doesn't necessarily mean we lose based on odds and lynching power.



Exactly, we confirm players this way. The question is though, is a hidden mechanic going to give the Traitor a free pass if there's one?



Dude, I were asleep. Stop trying to purposely paint me as scummy based on my absense. You don't even get a proper read of me if I don't even give you any material that you can cherrypick on.



True, there can't be a town lean and it's impossible, because by default this whole game you're scummy lol.
+1 points to Duck for being correct. I don't townlean him.



MattZed is the most definitive mod player, so are you saying you could be in a team specifically with Zed and Spruance?

Stop painting yourself as scummy.



Yeah, we're totally illuminati pals together, together with Sen(pai).
Considered though, an odd statement coming from you. Is it a subtle guess on teams?



Since no one can understand this... PICTURE





So your read on him sucks but you don't want to lynch him because he is likely Mafia.
Okay!



I don't think I ever have seen you want to lynch based on personal experience.



So I'm on the top spite having not posted anything at all.
Werren't I a Town role when I was replaced out due to computer suiciding?

I really feel it's more personal.

Then there's Kovath who you don't want to lynch based on a shitty read, but I'm the more shitty read.

That a lot of reading on leaveduck..

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Maybe I am, but this is Mafia so subliminal messages is a thing, breadcrumbing and all that jazz.
You're saying I read incorrectly?

I do not have an alignment. I am not TOWN or MAFIA.

[RLVG]

MRW multiple players quote my long, full post.



You're flooding the page this way, boiz.

[RLVG]

I do not have an alignment. I am not TOWN or MAFIA.

That's contradictory to what I got and I see nothing on the setup that whos this as a possibility.
Maybe I know a hidden mechanic myself, but it certainly ain't this.

Not to mention that the host explicitly put a rule to play out your win condition, not knowing yours just makes the rule invalid.
You're supposed to know your win condition.

YOU ARE TO PLAY TO YOUR WIN CONDITION. IF I THINK YOU ARE NOT AND I WARN YOU AND YOU DO IT ANYWAYS, I WILL EXPLAIN IN DETAIL TO THE MODS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND YOU WILL BE SUBJECTED TO PUNISHMENT IF THE MODS AGREE WITH ME

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

That's contradictory to what I got and I see nothing on the setup that whos this as a possibility.
Maybe I know a hidden mechanic myself, but it certainly ain't this.

Not to mention that the host explicitly put a rule to play out your win condition, not knowing yours just makes the rule invalid.
You're supposed to know your win condition.

Well you are going to have to accept that I do not have an alignment until the end of night 1, or try to get the town to lynch me. We can talk post game whether or not "forgetting" my alignment invalidates a rule. If you do not believe me, and read me mafia then you should be able to easily construct a case against me of why I am mafia. I will love watching you try to find something in my play that indicates I am mafia when I can't possibly know if I am.

[RLVG]

Well you are going to have to accept that I do not have an alignment until the end of night 1, or try to get the town to lynch me. We can talk post game whether or not "forgetting" my alignment invalidates a rule. If you do not believe me, and read me mafia then you should be able to easily construct a case against me of why I am mafia. I will love watching you try to find something in my play that indicates I am mafia when I can't possibly know if I am.

Making yourself a low-hanging fruit while negetating reads by stating you don't know your alignment is a way to avoid a lynch prematurely, which itself is a scummy move, only possible as the setup says that there's a hidden setup.

Unfortunately, I may have caught you in a string of gambits that contradict the setup, if you don't know your own alignment Day 1 when there's a possibility of dying by Lynch during Day 1, you can essentially go against your own win condition and you don't even know it. The setup promotes that everyone should know their own alignment by rolecard or otherwise the general win condition so they don't contradict a rule on the setup.

Because this claim is unbelieveable, I may have to request you to share what you received from the host (don't quote it).

[Calix]

I don't know who Shapelog and Alles_Paletti is, but wow, MattZed and Titus in the same group? And Klingoncelt too?

I'm not voting Group 1, just hope that the three of them are not scum lol. I don't think we're ready to guess scum among MattZed, Titus and Klingoncelt.

You overestimate their ability to play the exact same way as all alignments. I'm also not in the business of giving Day 1 passes to 'experienced' players.

It's been a while since I've played with you so I forget the finer details of your meta, exactly. However I wasn't a fan of this post. You get way too touchy over Duck's comments about wanting to policy-lynch you. (which he can't follow through on his own, thus meaning that you look like you're overreacting to the suggestion)

You're also misjudging his posts a lot.

Spoiler : Case in point :

Also this is scummy as fuck, "I think lynching him would be good for town REGARDLESS OF FLIP".

Dude, I were asleep. Stop trying to purposely paint me as scummy based on my absense. You don't even get a proper read of me if I don't even give you any material that you can cherrypick on.

...

MattZed is the most definitive mod player, so are you saying you could be in a team specifically with Zed and Spruance?

Stop painting yourself as scummy.

Night actions could lead to Scum being killed or preventing a kill, so even if we mislynch it doesn't necessarily mean we lose based on odds and lynching power.

Exactly, we confirm players this way. The question is though, is a hidden mechanic going to give the Traitor a free pass if there's one?

This is out of order but I also fucking hate these posts. You are low-key trying to justify town fucking up in advance. There is literally no town motivation to trying to make town MORE complacent in this setup when we have hidden mechanics and the potential to lose N1.

Second post just reeks of someone trying to keep his options open in the case that townies DO get confirmed.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Making yourself a low-hanging fruit while negetating reads by stating you don't know your alignment is a way to avoid a lynch prematurely, which itself is a scummy move, only possible as the setup says that there's a hidden setup.

Unfortunately, I may have caught you in a string of gambits that contradict the setup, if you don't know your own alignment Day 1 when there's a possibility of dying by Lynch during Day 1, you can essentially go against your own win condition and you don't even know it. The setup promotes that everyone should know their own alignment by rolecard or otherwise the general win condition so they don't contradict a rule on the setup.

Because this claim is unbelieveable, I may have to request you to share what you received from the host (don't quote it).

.... I can't tell if you are trolling or not at this point. If you do not go back and reread my first post (you quoted part of it, it is on page 2) then I can't discuss anything with you. I have literally already done this.

Why would I make myself low hanging fruit to avoid lynch? I have never been miss lynched, and with my group, I would ALWAYS be able to out talk a lynch over the other group members. Literally every comment you made on your long iso about me is a misrep or false. Do I really have to get out of bed and put effort into this right now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[RLVG]

I have a friend visiting me and I'll be going to cinema soon, so I won't be around.

Back later!

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

You overestimate their ability to play the exact same way as all alignments. I'm also not in the business of giving Day 1 passes to 'experienced' players.

It's been a while since I've played with you so I forget the finer details of your meta, exactly. However I wasn't a fan of this post. You get way too touchy over Duck's comments about wanting to policy-lynch you. (which he can't follow through on his own, thus meaning that you look like you're overreacting to the suggestion)

You're also misjudging his posts a lot.

Spoiler : Case in point :

This is out of order but I also fucking hate these posts. You are low-key trying to justify town fucking up in advance. There is literally no town motivation to trying to make town MORE complacent in this setup when we have hidden mechanics and the potential to lose N1.

Second post just reeks of someone trying to keep his options open in the case that townies DO get confirmed.

Why have you been so defendy of me this game? While RLVG's post certainly was bad, you have been consistently pro-duck this game. Even if you believe me, I still COULD be mafia.

[Calix]

Why have you been so defendy of me this game? While RLVG's post certainly was bad, you have been consistently pro-duck this game. Even if you believe me, I still COULD be mafia.

Calling out a shitty post =/= a defense of you. It was an attack on RLVG's shitty post and would have been done regardless of who he was talking to. Of course he disappears the moment I get on the thread

I don't buy his logic about the win conditions. Players cannot attempt to game-throw if they do not know what their win condition is.

The fact that RLVG/ Yuki (two suspicious players in Group 3) are both voting for Group 2 for spurious reasons makes me skeptical of the odds of lynching correctly if Group 2 is chosen.

[Never Unlucky]

Playing in a ‘marathon’ game and a 15 player game at the same time is a bad idea. zzz

I want to lynch in two imo. I don't like the fact there's so much diversion from 2, when two arguably has easier to sort players (less skilled).

You'd prefer lynching from the easier to sort players than from the easier to read?

I buy Duck as the hidden mechanic referenced in the setup. I think he's honest there.

I, too, think he's honest. In that sense, I wouldn't support lynching today to flip the coin and would rather wait until Day 2 to see how his play style change with an alignment's win-con in mind.

You're just trying to trick me--you're not even an alignment, you're believable though. The host did say there were special hidden snowflake mechanics and I can totally buy into you being a traitor.
I...I mean a temporary amnesiac >~< sorry...I don't know why I said that ^^;

Throws shade while keeping a town tone.

Now that I think about it, if Group 3 is in fact the 2 scum group and they blitzed the vote, it would be a strong strategy. The empirical chances of lynching town are 3/5, therefore the chance of scum winning D1/N1 is hypothetically around 60%. I will wait for counter-arguments and etc. before casting my vote, but it seems to me this G3 bandwagon came on too easily and therefore should be reversed.

His reasoning and cautiousness is another thing I like about him. They seem town-motivated for me.
Considering removing my vote from my group in that regard.

Not liking GingerApe so far. The dude states the obvious and sheeps Calix’s and Jealous’s thoughts.
[SPOILER]

someone said soft!
Oh. I totally change my mind from last night. I've given it some thought and the setup pretty much 100% is a 2/1/1 mafia setup right? If there were 0 mafia in a group then they would automatically get shuffled into a new group? Correct me if I'm wrong.

This game seems like it will be only a few days long if I'm thinking correctly.

So I'll go through all the day/night one options that I'm thinking can happen:

Ok so we pick a group with one mafia and lynch him (best ^^)
That also means mafia night actions wont matter a ton. But the group will be reshuffled...giving us a group with 2 mafia and a group with one...but...we get 4 absolute trusted townmembers that we can believe in.
As well as a larger majority vote in each group.

So we pick a group with 2 mafia and lynch a mafia (second best case scenario in my opinion)
That means mafia night actions aren't an immediate threat, and our investigative roles have a longer time to find these guys. It also means there's confirmed only one mafia in each group so it'll be harder for them to get a majority.


^^

Oh...now if we pick a group with 1 mafia and lynch a town....
Well, mafia will probably try to take out a member of town at night from their 2 person group to put pressure on us or they will win by the next morning. However it gives us a good 50% shot of hitting a mafia member since it will be 2/2 tomorrow.
i feel like this is pretty much the only course of action mafia will take if they want to win quickly.

If we pick a group with 2 mafia and lynch a town~
Oh. That's game over by the morning ~<3

[/SPOILER]
Feels like a person who’s IIOA. Null-read.

Decent post, I agree with more or less everything stated here. The 2/1/1 being confirmed was discussed before but restating it is no crime. Not sure I like your stating openly what mafia "should" do in the case of "1 mafia group and lynch town,' partially because I feel there is some potential for misdirection and that potential rises when town makes that evident. Either way, I am glad I didn't tunnel on you and you've posted something more-or-less constructive in terms of breakdown.

What makes you view Gingerape's post as constructive?

[Calix]

Playing in a ‘marathon’ game and a 15 player game at the same time is a bad idea. zzz

Seconded

Throws shade while keeping a town tone.


Not liking GingerApe so far. The dude states the obvious and sheeps Calix’s and Jealous’s thoughts.

Feels like a person who’s IIOA. Null-read.

This read progression confuses me. You claim he's throwing shade (although in a 'townie' way), then criticise him for sheeping/ stating the obvious...then you claim he uses IIOA (typically a scum tell)...and you concluded null...?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Calling out a shitty post =/= a defense of you. It was an attack on RLVG's shitty post and would have been done regardless of who he was talking to. Of course he disappears the moment I get on the thread

I don't buy his logic about the win conditions. Players cannot attempt to game-throw if they do not know what their win condition is.

The fact that RLVG/ Yuki (two suspicious players in Group 3) are both voting for Group 2 for spurious reasons makes me skeptical of the odds of lynching correctly if Group 2 is chosen.

Yeah I was finally about to pass out, and then I read that contrived bullshit, and he just bounces without discussing it.... Quick literally specifically asked me about the gamethrowing rule in the signup thread, and this guy comes in here and says I have to be playing against my win condition because I do not know my own role? I think the host is aware of his fucking mechanics and made sure they would not breach his own rules....

Why are you skeptical about our odds in group 2 though? If I am in your POV and know I(calix) am town, then the only way our odds would be bad is IF the read on TL is wrong, and he is in fact mafia. RLVG would be pushing me so if he is mafia, we will assume I am town, you know you are town, I believe TL is town, and that would leave us with a 50/50.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Calling out a shitty post =/= a defense of you. It was an attack on RLVG's shitty post and would have been done regardless of who he was talking to. Of course he disappears the moment I get on the thread

I don't buy his logic about the win conditions. Players cannot attempt to game-throw if they do not know what their win condition is.

The fact that RLVG/ Yuki (two suspicious players in Group 3) are both voting for Group 2 for spurious reasons makes me skeptical of the odds of lynching correctly if Group 2 is chosen.

Ok, I decided group 2 not because of you Calix, i pick 3 in group
- except Calix and plzduck
-> i pick the rest due to problem.
That's my reason for now

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Ok, I decided group 2 not because of you Calix, i pick 3 in group
- except Calix and plzduck
-> i pick the rest due to problem.
That's my reason for now

If Calix and I are both town, do you think we would have posted any less if we were mafia? This setup does not have the room for error to allow a lynch on someone who is lurking. I realize that I am partially advocating a group 2 lynch while criticizing you for it, but it seems you purely only want to lynch within lurkers, and not because of any town read on the other players.

[Never Unlucky]

Almost up-to-date.

In a normal game I would lynch ginger, but with the potential to have 0 miss lynches, are you more confident that they are mafia or that they could be mafia and will give a lot of information from their flip?

Yuki is more of a day 2 player from my one game experience, but I am willing to entertain this lynch.

My lynch order from group 3(1 being want dead the most)

1)rlvg
2)kovath
3)yuki
4)Ginger
5)NU

I think my list might be a huge mistake though. RLVG is top just because of lack of activity, and the next three players in line all have reasonable spots to be pinged out for as scum. I think kovath being able to speak more, hes in the thread, and NU posting will help clear this up.

Hmm actually rlvg might just be a terrible lynch at this point.... fuck me.

1) Lynching someone simply for being inactive when Quick has at least 2 replacements at his disposal is your #1? Why is he your top target?
If you want to lynch people based on their inactivity, why not vote for Group 2 [Spruance and or Slayer] or Group 1 [MZ, Alles_Palleti, Klingofthecelts]?

2) I know that you've said that you can 180 people you previously town-read, but I don't understand why Kovath is your #2 when you clearly stated that you weren't lynching him today because your D2 reads on him were better. He didn't post since you made your reads list either. Care to explain why he's #2?

He's also sitting in a similar spot as RLVG as he's only posted once. Why is RLVG more important of a lynch to you?

3 and 4) Other than Gingerape's town tone, I haven't noticed anything AI in their posts. I wouldn't (Vocally) support their lynch today.

I actually am considering Group 2 to be a better group to lynch from since I town-read Jealous, leantown Calix and have faith in DUCK's claim. It basically leaves me with two policy lynch options. (In contrast, my group has 2 PL targets and 3 players who aren't strongly read by anyone.)

Calix, I am on board with frying Yuki as well. It's a joke in RVS screams lynch them from my own personal experience. I'd prefer group 2 but that desire is waning since I can only get Yuki there.

Basically, I am ok with Yuki or ginger flipping.

Why is that?

[Yukitaka Oni]

If Calix and I are both town, do you think we would have posted any less if we were mafia? This setup does not have the room for error to allow a lynch on someone who is lurking. I realize that I am partially advocating a group 2 lynch while criticizing you for it, but it seems you purely only want to lynch within lurkers, and not because of any town read on the other players.

No, i want a little bit push to check if they're active or not.

[Yukitaka Oni]

!
........it's me or....my group....is suspicious.....the most....?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hm.....maybe not

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Almost up-to-date.


1) Lynching someone simply for being inactive when Quick has at least 2 replacements at his disposal is your #1? Why is he your top target?
If you want to lynch people based on their inactivity, why not vote for Group 2 [Spruance and or Slayer] or Group 1 [MZ, Alles_Palleti, Klingofthecelts]?

2) I know that you've said that you can 180 people you previously town-read, but I don't understand why Kovath is your #2 when you clearly stated that you weren't lynching him today because your D2 reads on him were better. He didn't post since you made your reads list either. Care to explain why he's #2?

He's also sitting in a similar spot as RLVG as he's only posted once. Why is RLVG more important of a lynch to you?

3 and 4) Other than Gingerape's town tone, I haven't noticed anything AI in their posts. I wouldn't (Vocally) support their lynch today.

I actually am considering Group 2 to be a better group to lynch from since I town-read Jealous, leantown Calix and have faith in DUCK's claim. It basically leaves me with two policy lynch options. (In contrast, my group has 2 PL targets and 3 players who aren't strongly read by anyone.)



Why is that?

I don't mean this is a negative way although it is going to come across so. Are my posts not making sense? I feel like multiple people have asked questions that the very post they are quoting answers. It is entirely likely and probable that I am too out of it and am not being very crisp in my wording, so if so my bad. I do not care if people need to repeat myself, but I want to know if I am hallucinating or others just overlooked something.

Anywhoooooooo back to your questions

1) I dont plan or edit posts. I type as I think and unless its a typo I dont really backspace. I was thinking about my lynch order for that group and when I started I wanted to lynch rlvg ( purely off a now proven false assumption that he would not be posting). As I thought about each player in the group, i reevaluated and realized that there are a lot of scummy people in group 3, and if there are several scummy people, I should NOT be policy lynching RLVG.

Keep in mind I have also been advocating the whole time about the merits of voting group 2. You post the same conclusion about a potential 50/50 in slayer/spruance (although it might turn out not to be this simple).

2)Okay so this is one of those things where I am a special snowflake and I have my own duck way of doing things. I scum read Kovath, but my day 1 reads are wrong on him. This means he very likely could be town. I think his play is scummy, but I am more confident in my ability to accurately read him on day 2 that I think there are better lynches on people I am better able to read on day 1. He is #2 because his question and bounce style reminded me of his play in IC and several other games. He tends to ask more hollow and less thought provoking questions as non town roles. He is at a tournament so I don't want to make an error in reading him as others have in previous games from him not being able to respond.

In short I think he is and could be scum, but my day 1 reads on him are notoriously bad, and he has been out of town. Like you said he has a similar post count to rlvg. The difference for me is I thought rlvg had a recent history of no showing, but he had computer issues I did not know about. I mentioned others knew better and should chime in, I guess nobody really felt like clarifying for me.

3) I probably agree with you here? I think their next several posts will shift them from the middle for me. Probably a great lynch for information, bad lynch to risk a MYLO.

4) I mentioned this several times, and it is starting to feel like one of those too good to be true type scenarios. Calix never buddies me this hard, the other guy is either town or a really strong day 1 mafia play, who the fuck knows what I am, and we have two MIA. If B turns out to be a double mafia group, we could potentially just hit runner runner...

I don't know what to think. Every fucking word is a blur, nobody even mentions group 1, like what the fuck do we do with that group.

[Never Unlucky]

Seconded

:/

This read progression confuses me. You claim he's throwing shade (although in a 'townie' way), then criticise him for sheeping/ stating the obvious...then you claim he uses IIOA (typically a scum tell)...and you concluded null...?

Sheeping and stating the obvious = NAI.

He's thrown shade on Duck by mentioning the possibility of him being the traitor (which is a possibility), but he didn't push the idea and he kept his tone. It's the opposite of what Eggy and MattZed did in IC to you: they mentioned the possibility of you being scum and killing Mesk who was defending you for town cred and pushed the idea to discredit you. Ginger isn't doing this.

Yes, IIOA is a scum-tell just like town tone is a town-tell. I don't feel like any of these points are over-shadowing the other atm (especially after mislynching SP in BN who showed many scum-tells while still having a town tone), so I conclude null.

[Never Unlucky]

I don't mean this is a negative way although it is going to come across so. Are my posts not making sense? I feel like multiple people have asked questions that the very post they are quoting answers. It is entirely likely and probable that I am too out of it and am not being very crisp in my wording, so if so my bad. I do not care if people need to repeat myself, but I want to know if I am hallucinating or others just overlooked something.

It's not that your posts don't make sense, it's more that you contradict yourself (sometimes in the same post, lol) and flip-flop your opinions quickly. This is something my 'good buddy' Eggy does a lot as scum, so I am intrigued to know what goes through your head when you make said posts. It seems to be NAI for you though, so I'll just have to get used to it.

Anywhoooooooo back to your questions

1) I dont plan or edit posts. I type as I think and unless its a typo I dont really backspace. I was thinking about my lynch order for that group and when I started I wanted to lynch rlvg ( purely off a now proven false assumption that he would not be posting). As I thought about each player in the group, i reevaluated and realized that there are a lot of scummy people in group 3, and if there are several scummy people, I should NOT be policy lynching RLVG.

Keep in mind I have also been advocating the whole time about the merits of voting group 2. You post the same conclusion about a potential 50/50 in slayer/spruance (although it might turn out not to be this simple).

What would your Group 3 lynch priority be atm then?

2)Okay so this is one of those things where I am a special snowflake and I have my own duck way of doing things. I scum read Kovath, but my day 1 reads are wrong on him. This means he very likely could be town. I think his play is scummy, but I am more confident in my ability to accurately read him on day 2 that I think there are better lynches on people I am better able to read on day 1. He is #2 because his question and bounce style reminded me of his play in IC and several other games. He tends to ask more hollow and less thought provoking questions as non town roles. He is at a tournament so I don't want to make an error in reading him as others have in previous games from him not being able to respond.

In short I think he is and could be scum, but my day 1 reads on him are notoriously bad, and he has been out of town. Like you said he has a similar post count to rlvg. The difference for me is I thought rlvg had a recent history of no showing, but he had computer issues I did not know about. I mentioned others knew better and should chime in, I guess nobody really felt like clarifying for me.

3) I probably agree with you here? I think their next several posts will shift them from the middle for me. Probably a great lynch for information, bad lynch to risk a MYLO.

"A great lynch for information" -- How?

Neither Yuki nor Gingerape has had any serious interaction with anyone, so I don't see what information their flip would give. The only information they'd give is that Kovath, RLVG, [The one of them who hasn't been lynched], and I mechanically have more chance of flipping scum.

4) I mentioned this several times, and it is starting to feel like one of those too good to be true type scenarios. Calix never buddies me this hard, the other guy is either town or a really strong day 1 mafia play, who the fuck knows what I am, and we have two MIA. If B turns out to be a double mafia group, we could potentially just hit runner runner...

From an outside Calix - Duck interaction POV, I did not feel like she was buddying you. What makes you feel that way?


I think Jealous is a town. Fuck his typing style though.

I don't know what to think. Every fucking word is a blur, nobody even mentions group 1, like what the fuck do we do with that group.

Because there's nothing to be said about group 1. 3 inactive players asking to be PLed, Titus (null for me), and Shapelog being the scummiest with his "Oh, I didn't know there was X mafia" comment doesn't propose an educated lynch.

[Calix]

I actually am considering Group 2 to be a better group to lynch from since I town-read Jealous, leantown Calix and have faith in DUCK's claim. It basically leaves me with two policy lynch options. (In contrast, my group has 2 PL targets and 3 players who aren't strongly read by anyone.)

Why is the idea of a policy lynch option being entertained?

1) I dont plan or edit posts. I type as I think and unless its a typo I dont really backspace. I was thinking about my lynch order for that group and when I started I wanted to lynch rlvg ( purely off a now proven false assumption that he would not be posting). As I thought about each player in the group, i reevaluated and realized that there are a lot of scummy people in group 3, and if there are several scummy people, I should NOT be policy lynching RLVG.

Your logic is flawed. Scummy doesn't necessitate them being scum, so the switch to "RLVG is likely town" (or like an Innocent Child or something like that - it was in a different post so going off memory here) does not make sense.

I also don't see why you'd want to lynch a non-poster of all targets.

4) I mentioned this several times, and it is starting to feel like one of those too good to be true type scenarios. Calix never buddies me this hard, the other guy is either town or a really strong day 1 mafia play, who the fuck knows what I am, and we have two MIA. If B turns out to be a double mafia group, we could potentially just hit runner runner...

I don't know what to think. Every fucking word is a blur, nobody even mentions group 1, like what the fuck do we do with that group.

Firstly, I haven't been 'buddying' with you. Going from "this claim doesn't make much sense for mafia but could be a gambit" to "he's probably legit because of XYZ in his reads list" =/= buddying. Calling out RLVG's poor logic without sheeping your reasoning also doesn't qualify.

We also haven't played enough games together for you to go "Calix never does X this much"

:/

Sheeping and stating the obvious = NAI.

He's thrown shade on Duck by mentioning the possibility of him being the traitor (which is a possibility), but he didn't push the idea and he kept his tone. It's the opposite of what Eggy and MattZed did in IC to you: they mentioned the possibility of you being scum and killing Mesk who was defending you for town cred and pushed the idea to discredit you. Ginger isn't doing this.

Yes, IIOA is a scum-tell just like town tone is a town-tell. I don't feel like any of these points are over-shadowing the other atm (especially after mislynching SP in BN who showed many scum-tells while still having a town tone), so I conclude null.

I accept this explanation. I like the comparison in the second paragraph in particular.

[Yukitaka Oni]

So both town and scum try to pick group in the name of scum-hunting.
That mean one of the player who's trying to scum-hunting right now is a Mafia. But....that only can reduce a little bit risk so far....

[Yukitaka Oni]

-unvote

Group 2 is not a good pick with so many afk/lurker so far. Beside nobody give a damn about them anyway...

[Never Unlucky]

Why is the idea of a policy lynch option being entertained?

Players who've posted:
Titus - null
Shapelog - null-leaning-scum
Calix - Lean-town
Jealous - Town
Duck - I trust his claim and would like to keep him at least until D2 to see how his role and play evolve.
Yuki - Null
Ginger - Null
Kovath - Null
RLVG - Null

This set-up obliges lynches to happen everyday. My mentor told me that PLs are forseeable when you don't have a strong scum-read on anyone, and this is the situation I'm in right now.

What idea do you entertain?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Players who've posted:
Titus - null
Shapelog - null-leaning-scum
Calix - Lean-town
Jealous - Town
Duck - I trust his claim and would like to keep him at least until D2 to see how his role and play evolve.
Yuki - Null
Ginger - Null
Kovath - Null
RLVG - Null

This set-up obliges lynches to happen everyday. My mentor told me that PLs are forseeable when you don't have a strong scum-read on anyone, and this is the situation I'm in right now.

What idea do you entertain?

Nah, I accept being called a null this time, my previous reason to vote group 2 and my plan was ruined by afk/lurkers. Going to change my plan