S-FM 209: Surreptitious: The Game of Spies

[JealousTL]

someone said soft!
Oh. I totally change my mind from last night. I've given it some thought and the setup pretty much 100% is a 2/1/1 mafia setup right? If there were 0 mafia in a group then they would automatically get shuffled into a new group? Correct me if I'm wrong.

This game seems like it will be only a few days long if I'm thinking correctly.

So I'll go through all the day/night one options that I'm thinking can happen:

Ok so we pick a group with one mafia and lynch him (best ^^)
That also means mafia night actions wont matter a ton. But the group will be reshuffled...giving us a group with 2 mafia and a group with one...but...we get 4 absolute trusted townmembers that we can believe in.
As well as a larger majority vote in each group.

So we pick a group with 2 mafia and lynch a mafia (second best case scenario in my opinion)
That means mafia night actions aren't an immediate threat, and our investigative roles have a longer time to find these guys. It also means there's confirmed only one mafia in each group so it'll be harder for them to get a majority.


^^

Oh...now if we pick a group with 1 mafia and lynch a town....
Well, mafia will probably try to take out a member of town at night from their 2 person group to put pressure on us or they will win by the next morning. However it gives us a good 50% shot of hitting a mafia member since it will be 2/2 tomorrow.
i feel like this is pretty much the only course of action mafia will take if they want to win quickly.

If we pick a group with 2 mafia and lynch a town~
Oh. That's game over by the morning ~<3

Decent post, I agree with more or less everything stated here. The 2/1/1 being confirmed was discussed before but restating it is no crime. Not sure I like your stating openly what mafia "should" do in the case of "1 mafia group and lynch town,' partially because I feel there is some potential for misdirection and that potential rises when town makes that evident. Either way, I am glad I didn't tunnel on you and you've posted something more-or-less constructive in terms of breakdown.

[JealousTL]

hahaahahahaa putting mafia, group, vocal in the same sentence on this site is a real knee slapper. sc2mafia meta 101, scum lurk and waste our time.

Also I am going to reiterate this again, You can NOT have a town lean on me. IT IS ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE. The one way it would be possible is if you scum read certain people and think they are against me, thus making me town barring any distancing/bussing. However, your post mentioned that you do not suspect anyone too heavily yet. I do not know my alignment, and we have already agreed that If I am lying, I am only lying as MAFIA!!

I will say it openly, if I was scum I would try pretty hard. I think you said the same thing a few pages ago, but please correct me if I am wrong.

And as I said before, "townlean" is not the right term but the concept of "not a scumlean" still applies in the sense that I am inclined to believe that you are being earnest in your alignment ambiguity woes. If I had a scumlean on you it would be because you are scum that is lying, as you said. So the opposite of that is usually townlean, hence the potential confusion. I apologize for that, I will try to be more vigilant in the future with this wording. So, in short, I see you as "not a cognizant scum," as of now but that read is admittedly rather weak.

I will discuss anything with anyone, you will notice I will be on the thread most of the time with minimal sleep. The site has a lot of people who view the thread then leave, so I like to just ping them out to encourage interaction.

I have read team liquid games, so I can see why this may be a bit different for you.

I'm not that type. I generally only view the thread when I am ready to respond. I generally respond between 13:00-02:00 EDT depending on the day and schedule, but rarely deviating from that.

To be fair, as I had stated in the sign-up thread, I am by no means a vet on any forum, including TeamLiquid. The things I say are my impressions as a relative newbie to that forum's mafia games as well. I honestly don't know why I was chosen for an "experienced player" game ;-; All I did was lead a mislynch against Quick in D1.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I will say it openly, if I was scum I would try pretty hard. I think you said the same thing a few pages ago, but please correct me if I am wrong.

And as I said before, "townlean" is not the right term but the concept of "not a scumlean" still applies in the sense that I am inclined to believe that you are being earnest in your alignment ambiguity woes. If I had a scumlean on you it would be because you are scum that is lying, as you said. So the opposite of that is usually townlean, hence the potential confusion. I apologize for that, I will try to be more vigilant in the future with this wording. So, in short, I see you as "not a cognizant scum," as of now but that read is admittedly rather weak.



I'm not that type. I generally only view the thread when I am ready to respond. I generally respond between 13:00-02:00 EDT depending on the day and schedule, but rarely deviating from that.

To be fair, as I had stated in the sign-up thread, I am by no means a vet on any forum, including TeamLiquid. The things I say are my impressions as a relative newbie to that forum's mafia games as well. I honestly don't know why I was chosen for an "experienced player" game ;-; All I did was lead a mislynch against Quick in D1.

"all I did was lead a mislynch against Quick in D1"

Doing the fucking Lords work. You are honestly the hero town needs.

As for your read on me, it makes sense now. I was confused as first because to say you had a town lean on me with no context would be heavily mafia indicative at this point, but your reasoning and play has been seemingly from a town perspective. I am glad you cleared that up for me.

I am willing to switch from group 3 to my group to vote between slayer and spruance. If town decides they want to yolo it on me, we can uh... discuss that...

[JealousTL]

"all I did was lead a mislynch against Quick in D1"

Doing the fucking Lords work. You are honestly the hero town needs.

As for your read on me, it makes sense now. I was confused as first because to say you had a town lean on me with no context would be heavily mafia indicative at this point, but your reasoning and play has been seemingly from a town perspective. I am glad you cleared that up for me.

I am willing to switch from group 3 to my group to vote between slayer and spruance. If town decides they want to yolo it on me, we can uh... discuss that...

Hahaha xD I think I should include the fact that I was actually town and instigated a mislynch against Quick who was also town because I tunneled on his trolly behavior. That probably makes my story a bit more pathetic.

Glad I could get my point across. I feel like sometimes I write many words but I don't accurately convey my meaning. It sucks.

I would rather not be so hasty in such a decision, main reason being timezones and work/sleep schedules. I am thankful that this first day fell on a weekend, but I also feel a trepidation in targeting anyone for inactivity in the first ~16 hours. The next 8 hours should be interesting and I would be willing to vote for my group given my logic of not wanting a free Group 3 vote. Group 1 seems to be the more quiet group so far, however, so I'd rather they raise their activity soon. If I were to vote as of this moment, it would be them.

Actually, given that there is only 8 hours left and that will likely include me working for 2-3 more hours and sleeping for the rest, I will park my vote on Group 1. Not sure how you guys do the hotlink for Group 1, so hopefully I get this right (if not, please inform me on how to do this properly in the next 15-30 minutes):

-Group1

[Gingerape]

awoo.
Oh...sorry duck. I think you're an evil mafia.
It's not your fault.
I just think that the host thought of this scenario where mafia kinda all steer everyone for the group with two people in it and attempt a game winning mislynch on day 1.
Shhhh. I'll pet you if it makes you feel better.

I just...there's a special hidden mechanic in the game with you. And there's also one group that has two mafia instead of one.
I just think they coincide.

Sorry. I love you but you scare me and I irony want to vote your group because I believe it has 2 mafia. You're probably one of them and you don't know it ^^

[Calix]

Lynching a townie from a 3v2 group makes us lose automatically because we create 2v2, then mafia lynches 1 of the 2 remaining townies and achieves majority at the end of N1, which is why I think that it is a solid strategy for scum to push a group where they have a 60% chance of winning on D1 when reads are less concrete.

Re: "What do you make of the individual voters on the train?"

Although I am slightly WIFOM on PLZLEAVEDUCKK I am leaning town on him for now. The rest, I have simply not seen enough to make a conclusion. I like that you are making moves in this game and more or less leading at the moment, but it might be a timezone thing. Either way, I don't necessarily suspect anyone in particular at the moment given that sheeping can be endemic and thus conceal whether a person is town or scum trying to profit. I'm suspicious of the relative strength of the motion. We know as per Quick that 13 players have confirmed, so the activity measure you have brought up is in my opinion a moot point. It could be a very vocal mafia group leading the charge or a very silent one allowing an existing motion to gain traction among townies, or anywhere in between. This may be my paranoia speaking, but switching a bunch of votes could lead to things. I would be more explicit but I don't want to reveal what I think scum should do in that scenario on the off-chance that this is the case.

Nah, I usually like to lead and be in charge. I am actually being less vocal/ demanding than usual (due to not wanting to clog the thread and make it hard for people to catch up, RL commitments, etc) - it's just how I operate.

You make a good point about the 13/15 confirmed-sign players.

Also you are self-aware about the possibility but I can't help but read this part as townie paranoia.

hahaahahahaa putting mafia, group, vocal in the same sentence on this site is a real knee slapper. sc2mafia meta 101, scum lurk and waste our time.

Given that this isn't going to be a long-term game, having the scum choose to lurk would ruin the entire point of the game. I imagine that Quick would replace/ extend the day/ modkill as necessary so that all factions have a fair chance. It's not fair for town to end up turning on each other because the scum couldn't be arsed to turn up.

"all I did was lead a mislynch against Quick in D1"

Doing the fucking Lords work. You are honestly the hero town needs.

I am willing to switch from group 3 to my group to vote between slayer and spruance. If town decides they want to yolo it on me, we can uh... discuss that...

lmao

Although I don't wish to switch, I can meta-read Spruance to an extent, at least. I have no idea about Slayer, but apparently he's a mod player - have you played with him before? What is his playstyle like?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Hahaha xD I think I should include the fact that I was actually town and instigated a mislynch against Quick who was also town because I tunneled on his trolly behavior. That probably makes my story a bit more pathetic.

Glad I could get my point across. I feel like sometimes I write many words but I don't accurately convey my meaning. It sucks.

I would rather not be so hasty in such a decision, main reason being timezones and work/sleep schedules. I am thankful that this first day fell on a weekend, but I also feel a trepidation in targeting anyone for inactivity in the first ~16 hours. The next 8 hours should be interesting and I would be willing to vote for my group given my logic of not wanting a free Group 3 vote. Group 1 seems to be the more quiet group so far, however, so I'd rather they raise their activity soon. If I were to vote as of this moment, it would be them.

Actually, given that there is only 8 hours left and that will likely include me working for 2-3 more hours and sleeping for the rest, I will park my vote on Group 1. Not sure how you guys do the hotlink for Group 1, so hopefully I get this right (if not, please inform me on how to do this properly in the next 15-30 minutes):

-Group1

Imagine the quote /quote brackets as vote and type what you are voting for so

-vote group 1

[Calix]

Jealous, you need to use vote tags.

[vote]GROUP X[./vote]

Remove the .

[JealousTL]

Thanks for the help, guys.

-vote Group 1

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

awoo.
Oh...sorry duck. I think you're an evil mafia.
It's not your fault.
I just think that the host thought of this scenario where mafia kinda all steer everyone for the group with two people in it and attempt a game winning mislynch on day 1.
Shhhh. I'll pet you if it makes you feel better.

I just...there's a special hidden mechanic in the game with you. And there's also one group that has two mafia instead of one.
I just think they coincide.

Sorry. I love you but you scare me and I irony want to vote your group because I believe it has 2 mafia. You're probably one of them and you don't know it ^^

You might be right about me being mafia, and in the two mafia group. I actually really like this comment as it seems to be a read not easily thought of and outside of the box. The only downside is that would mean I hate my alignment, and that I am stuck with either a mod player or spruance LOL NO FUCK THAT.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Nah, I usually like to lead and be in charge. I am actually being less vocal/ demanding than usual (due to not wanting to clog the thread and make it hard for people to catch up, RL commitments, etc) - it's just how I operate.

You make a good point about the 13/15 confirmed-sign players.

Also you are self-aware about the possibility but I can't help but read this part as townie paranoia.



Given that this isn't going to be a long-term game, having the scum choose to lurk would ruin the entire point of the game. I imagine that Quick would replace/ extend the day/ modkill as necessary so that all factions have a fair chance. It's not fair for town to end up turning on each other because the scum couldn't be arsed to turn up.



lmao

Although I don't wish to switch, I can meta-read Spruance to an extent, at least. I have no idea about Slayer, but apparently he's a mod player - have you played with him before? What is his playstyle like?

The name has come up several times, but slayer is a generic name and could be a totally different person. Mod players are usually bad at handling pressure, so I think by pressuring him, and your meta read on spruance, we should be able to get a hit on day 1 from our group.

Potential problem if we town read them both as that means I am the most likely to be a hit, or if you are mafia and having a strong day 1 and then we will probably miss lynch twice in our group.

also PSA: early game reads for me flip on a dime, and while I have some players as extremely strong town and am not considering them for lynches, events in the game, even if they seem to not relate to that person, could cause me to do a complete 180 on them.

[JealousTL]

Nah, I usually like to lead and be in charge. I am actually being less vocal/ demanding than usual (due to not wanting to clog the thread and make it hard for people to catch up, RL commitments, etc) - it's just how I operate.

You make a good point about the 13/15 confirmed-sign players.

Also you are self-aware about the possibility but I can't help but read this part as townie paranoia.

I can respect both what you claim to be your standard approach and why you are not doing it as vehemently right now. I hope that we both stay in this game further so I can read you better/learn from you. I feel that the more vocal players tend to be the better players, because vocal players who suck get lynched early and learn the wrong lessons from their mistakes (in contrast to the generally accepted vocal=town hypothesis).

Townie paranoia is, as always for me, a definite possibility. However, from what I recall at this juncture, the strongest supporting evidence for voting G3 has been that vets are familiar with the players within, and that therefore there are strong players there. Correct me if I am mistaken. This by definition means that scum could be trying to silence or put under defensive pressure the strong players that would otherwise be working to solve the game as opposed to protect their own necks. This also still carries the possibility of a free 60% D1 win condition for scum, if scum has already voted. You've accepted that my 13/15 comment is a valid point; if we pessimistically assume that the other 2 players are still MIA, that means the 4 votes (going by your word here) for G3 make up nearly 1/3rd of the confirmed active player list, and a much greater fraction of the actively posting population. It can't be written off, hence my paranoia.

[Yukitaka Oni]

v)o.o)> c[_] v(o.o(v going to do nothing day 1

[JealousTL]

Maybe I should switch to G3

[Calix]

The name has come up several times, but slayer is a generic name and could be a totally different person. Mod players are usually bad at handling pressure, so I think by pressuring him, and your meta read on spruance, we should be able to get a hit on day 1 from our group.

Potential problem if we town read them both as that means I am the most likely to be a hit, or if you are mafia and having a strong day 1 and then we will probably miss lynch twice in our group.

also PSA: early game reads for me flip on a dime, and while I have some players as extremely strong town and am not considering them for lynches, events in the game, even if they seem to not relate to that person, could cause me to do a complete 180 on them.

Spruance has a very...unique...meta, to put it nicely. Only seen him as scum once so I have to hope that he'll play the same way as it was a recent game. (Politico)

While we're on meta, I'd like to claim. I'm an important Town Power Role, otherwise known as Calix. I'm the same size as a waste bin and I'm just as full of shit. I'm the sort who posts/ contributes a lot regardless of alignment. Typically I'm aggressive, stubborn, and impulsive in how I play, have a bad tendency to tunnel and disregard town tells when pushing my scum-reads because I rarely jot them down and then I forget about them. I'd like to avoid that this game as it ended up badly last time.

Duck can opine on how he views me. I think I'm pretty decent at self-awareness but I could always be better.

[Calix]

v)o.o)> c[_] v(o.o(v going to do nothing day 1

>sees discussion on why we can't afford to fuck around on Day 1
>openly admits to not wanting to do anything on Day 1 after said discussion

Lynch this pls.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I can respect both what you claim to be your standard approach and why you are not doing it as vehemently right now. I hope that we both stay in this game further so I can read you better/learn from you. I feel that the more vocal players tend to be the better players, because vocal players who suck get lynched early and learn the wrong lessons from their mistakes (in contrast to the generally accepted vocal=town hypothesis).

Townie paranoia is, as always for me, a definite possibility. However, from what I recall at this juncture, the strongest supporting evidence for voting G3 has been that vets are familiar with the players within, and that therefore there are strong players there. Correct me if I am mistaken. This by definition means that scum could be trying to silence or put under defensive pressure the strong players that would otherwise be working to solve the game as opposed to protect their own necks. This also still carries the possibility of a free 60% D1 win condition for scum, if scum has already voted. You've accepted that my 13/15 comment is a valid point; if we pessimistically assume that the other 2 players are still MIA, that means the 4 votes (going by your word here) for G3 make up nearly 1/3rd of the confirmed active player list, and a much greater fraction of the actively posting population. It can't be written off, hence my paranoia.

I read all three groups as reasonably balanced. If mafia is voting for a group based on player names it would be because the scum in that group are unlikely to be lynched. For example, our group has calix and myself who both know that we are not going to get lynched barring something drastic. It does not even have to do with our ability to play the game, but I believe due to the site meta of activity = town ( false obviously). If we have two mafia in group 3, but I am the solo mafia in group 2, then I would tell the mafia to pick group 2 because I know I am never getting lynched.

Because of this I think it is more likely mafia is going to go for a group where their "star" players are and will be able to carry their team. Scum do not want to come out and put the spotlight on a strong player when they know they are town because that strong town play will show easily, and then good luck risking the night kill with likely bodyguards in the setup.

[Yukitaka Oni]

>sees discussion on why we can't afford to fuck around on Day 1
>openly admits to not wanting to do anything on Day 1 after said discussion

Lynch this pls.

Come on, why you aim me so badly? What about your illuminati buddy RLVG v(o.o(<?!?! I didn't make any plan yet

[Calix]

I can respect both what you claim to be your standard approach and why you are not doing it as vehemently right now. I hope that we both stay in this game further so I can read you better/learn from you. I feel that the more vocal players tend to be the better players, because vocal players who suck get lynched early and learn the wrong lessons from their mistakes (in contrast to the generally accepted vocal=town hypothesis).

Townie paranoia is, as always for me, a definite possibility. However, from what I recall at this juncture, the strongest supporting evidence for voting G3 has been that vets are familiar with the players within, and that therefore there are strong players there. Correct me if I am mistaken. This by definition means that scum could be trying to silence or put under defensive pressure the strong players that would otherwise be working to solve the game as opposed to protect their own necks. This also still carries the possibility of a free 60% D1 win condition for scum, if scum has already voted. You've accepted that my 13/15 comment is a valid point; if we pessimistically assume that the other 2 players are still MIA, that means the 4 votes (going by your word here) for G3 make up nearly 1/3rd of the confirmed active player list, and a much greater fraction of the actively posting population. It can't be written off, hence my paranoia.

NU, RLVG and Kovath aren't terrible, but you're dealing with the best ;) However RLVG has been doing his damnedest to impersonate ika in recent games while Kovath is busy for the next few days so that makes me wonder wherever they'll even turn up to respond to being voted for.

I don't want to speculate too much on the group choices until other players turn up and respond/ vote, so I'll cut that short.

NU/ Kovath are also more vocal players usually so I wouldn't agree with your theory because I don't think them being scum-read would deter them much FME.

[Calix]

Come on, why you aim me so badly? What about your illuminati buddy RLVG v(o.o(<?!?! I didn't make any plan yet

Because you're deliberately trying to vote for a player based on their experience, even though this has never bothered you before in previous games, you refuse to comment on anything that's happened and then you admit to wanting to slack off when it's been made clear that town can lose very quickly.

Please explain how you're helping the town. Go on, I'll wait.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Spruance has a very...unique...meta, to put it nicely. Only seen him as scum once so I have to hope that he'll play the same way as it was a recent game. (Politico)

While we're on meta, I'd like to claim. I'm an important Town Power Role, otherwise known as Calix. I'm the same size as a waste bin and I'm just as full of shit. I'm the sort who posts/ contributes a lot regardless of alignment. Typically I'm aggressive, stubborn, and impulsive in how I play, have a bad tendency to tunnel and disregard town tells when pushing my scum-reads because I rarely jot them down and then I forget about them. I'd like to avoid that this game as it ended up badly last time.

Duck can opine on how he views me. I think I'm pretty decent at self-awareness but I could always be better.

Your play is fine, I am telling you if you put more emphasis on building a town circle you would be a top tier player.

I feel making a tight town circle for reference would help you when your tunneling was wrong, so rather then being at square one, you have a town circle to go off of.

You seem to town shield scum in recent games, and tunnel on towns. I think a town circle would have made you flip on either your town shielding the scum, or your tunneling the towns.

also I didnt mean to actually vote group 1

-vote group 3

[JealousTL]

You both make good points. WIFOM tells me, almost too good. I will leave my vote parked where it is, go to sleep, and hopefully wake up to a clearer tomorrow-that-is-actually-max-7-hours-from-now because i am getting slammed right now. Thank you for the discussion, it has been a refreshingly pleasant D1 for me for the most part.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Because you're deliberately trying to vote for a player based on their experience, even though this has never bothered you before in previous games, you refuse to comment on anything that's happened and then you admit to wanting to slack off when it's been made clear that town can lose very quickly.

Please explain how you're helping the town. Go on, I'll wait.

Now do you see why I flipped out on him in your last game, and how his follow ups have differed from ginger?

I will say it is likely NAI from him, and that his play did improve over time in the last game.

Group 3:
Not lynching kovath, I have probably the best day 2+ read on kovath here( my day 1 read on him is actually garbage)
yuki - noose
rlvg - wanted to noose him from the start
ginger- I have so many conflicting mafia and town tells that I would be hesitant on this lynch, and if it flips opposite I will probably be very mad with myself as there were plenty of tells to show they were the alignment they were
NU- I played with him yesterday when I was mayor and he literally said "I am to lazy to fake claim"... and then I didnt lynch him and lost to jester rng... sigh. I don't have much experience with him, but he seems to be posting and providing content so I think we will be able to make an educated decision on him.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Because you're deliberately trying to vote for a player based on their experience, even though this has never bothered you before in previous games, you refuse to comment on anything that's happened and then you admit to wanting to slack off when it's been made clear that town can lose very quickly.

Please explain how you're helping the town. Go on, I'll wait.

I told you I don't have a plan yet, not yet. Right now my vote is just to balance the group vote, buy some time. I can go no further at this point. You can't get anymore information from me right now v(o.o)^

[Yukitaka Oni]

Because you're deliberately trying to vote for a player based on their experience, even though this has never bothered you before in previous games, you refuse to comment on anything that's happened and then you admit to wanting to slack off when it's been made clear that town can lose very quickly.

Please explain how you're helping the town. Go on, I'll wait.

Oh wait, how can town loose very quickly v)O.o)v?!?!?!?! Did mafia can kill more than 2 town per night or something?!?!?!?!

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I told you I don't have a plan yet, not yet. Right now my vote is just to balance the group vote, buy some time. I can go no further at this point. You can't get anymore information from me right now v(o.o)^

Hey yuki, how are you doing.

Do you not worry that by "balancing" the group vote, it gives the mafia more power to controlling the decision. If 11 of us split our votes into three groups evenly, mafia will always get the group they want.

We will see I suppose.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I told you I don't have a plan yet, not yet. Right now my vote is just to balance the group vote, buy some time. I can go no further at this point. You can't get anymore information from me right now v(o.o)^

Hey yuki, how are you doing.

Do you not worry that by "balancing" the group vote, it gives the mafia more power to controlling the decision. If 11 of us split our votes into three groups evenly, mafia will always get the group they want.

We will see I suppose.

[Calix]

I told you I don't have a plan yet, not yet. Right now my vote is just to balance the group vote, buy some time. I can go no further at this point. You can't get anymore information from me right now v(o.o)^

Again, your explanation does not add up because you cited completely different reasoning when you actually voted for your group. The only other vote on Group 2 at the time was Titus while Group 3 was well ahead.

Town!Yuki wouldn't care about being pressured/ questioned because it's what you come to expect. You're being unusually responsive/ direct to me now that I've drawn attention to you.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Again, your explanation does not add up because you cited completely different reasoning when you actually voted for your group. The only other vote on Group 2 at the time was Titus while Group 3 was well ahead.

Town!Yuki wouldn't care about being pressured/ questioned because it's what you come to expect. You're being unusually responsive/ direct to me now that I've drawn attention to you.

It's just a joke Calix, Don't make it big. You're big horse around here, I ain't Firebringer to dare solo you 1v1
Why so serious about I poke you v(o.o(<?!?

[Calix]

It's just a joke Calix, Don't make it big.

"I didn't mean it guise. It was a joke! R/SM!"

You're big horse around here, I ain't Firebringer to dare solo you 1v1
Why so serious about I poke you v(o.o(<?!?

I like how you are trying to back down away from the spotlight.

How many bloody explanations do you have for your Group 2 vote? You've literally given 3 or 4 at this point.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hey yuki, how are you doing.

Do you not worry that by "balancing" the group vote, it gives the mafia more power to controlling the decision. If 11 of us split our votes into three groups evenly, mafia will always get the group they want.

We will see I suppose.

I see...but we don't have real idea about which groups had the most mafia, I don't know which group to pick now. To be honest I even doubt my group right now...

[Calix]

I see...but we don't have real idea about which groups had the most mafia, I don't know which group to pick now. To be honest I even doubt my group right now...

What changed to make you doubt your group members?

[Yukitaka Oni]

"I didn't mean it guise. It was a joke! R/SM!"



I like how you are trying to back down away from the spotlight.

How many bloody explanations do you have for your Group 2 vote? You've literally given 3 or 4 at this point.

Stop please, you're not my target. <(o.o(v

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

"I didn't mean it guise. It was a joke! R/SM!"



I like how you are trying to back down away from the spotlight.

How many bloody explanations do you have for your Group 2 vote? You've literally given 3 or 4 at this point.

Fucking hilarious. I would say keep it up and I will night kill you, but by the time I remember my role you will already be night killed or confirmed mafia :P

[Yukitaka Oni]

What changed to make you doubt your group members?

I'm a Snow Eagle v)o.o)> I trust no one remember?

[Calix]

Stop please, you're not my target. <(o.o(v

"Calix-chan pls, you're drawing attention to the fact that I'm not doing anything in the thread."

And your target is? You weren't doing anything.

[Yukitaka Oni]

What changed to make you doubt your group members?

Blame MikeVipe for mafia game loading screen: Trust no one, except yourself
But i went deeper: I trust no one, not even myself
I already declared that every game i trust no one v(o.o(<

[Yukitaka Oni]

"Calix-chan pls, you're drawing attention to the fact that I'm not doing anything in the thread."

And your target is? You weren't doing anything.

i have to repeat again? I have no plan at the moment. I'm allow you to get any information from me but I am NOT allow you to order me or control my vote power. Don't cross the line Calix v)x.o)>

[Calix]

Blame MikeVipe for mafia game loading screen: Trust no one, except yourself
But i went deeper: I trust no one, not even myself
I already declared that every game i trust no one v(o.o(<

If you can't trust yourself, isn't that basically a scum claim?

[Calix]

i have to repeat again? I have no plan at the moment. I'm allow you to get any information from me but I am NOT allow you to order me or control my vote power. Don't cross the line Calix v)x.o)>

"I have no plan." - This implies that you have no agenda in the thread.

"Stop, you're not my target." - This implies that I am distracting you from an agenda in the thread.

These two lines of thought do not go together.

How have I been trying to control your vote power? I have been questioning you/ asking you to contribute.

[Yukitaka Oni]

"I have no plan." - This implies that you have no agenda in the thread.

"Stop, you're not my target." - This implies that I am distracting you from an agenda in the thread.

These two lines of thought do not go together.

How have I been trying to control your vote power? I have been questioning you/ asking you to contribute.

I'm still confused about the group vote mechanics here. Since this is my first time playing with this group mechanism

[Yukitaka Oni]

If you can't trust yourself, isn't that basically a scum claim?

Deceiving myself it's also a part of my plan in every game. Back to Koopalitic i even give a lot of hint that i am a scum, or even in mafia war I already claim i am a scum, amirite v(o.o(<?!?!?
Self-Hypothesis
Two plus two equal five

[Calix]

I'm still confused about the group vote mechanics here. Since this is my first time playing with this group mechanism

You haven't said how there ISN'T a discrepancy in the two thought processes I outlined in the post above, nor have you explained how or why you thought I was trying to control your vote.

What about the mechanics don't make sense to you?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I am like a crack whore obsessed with posting, so I will post where I am at with a brief synopsis rather than detailed ISO's.

1. Never Unlucky - not much from him so far but leaning town. I think if he does flip scum it confirms that calix and myself are town as his avoidance of group b as scum would mean that his partner in that group is likely to get lynched.
2. JealousTL - I see town motivation in his posts. I feel a town trying to solve the game vibe here.
4. Gingerape - Breadcrumbs so openly, too scummy to be scum type play? However, I have also seen well thought out logic, and I liked that she went along with my terrible analogy. I think mafia would have been more likely to just call me an idiot and move on rather than continue discussing it and trying to get both of us to the same place.
6. Yukitaka Oni - I personally saw the responses as NAI, but if calix believes Yuki is more defensive than normal, he began to conform more to his usual yuki self afterwards, and could be a mafia trying to correct behavior that got him pinged out.
7. Shapelog - had a scum read on him for his opening. Went back and reread the first page and realized he was not pulling a g4slight but referencing that the game started because 13 players confirmed, and not that he was player 13. I will need to third read his posts before I put him anywhere so he is null for me.
11. Titus - Pretty strong town so far. The considering of all possibilities and reevaluating them this early on is a good sign that they do not have perfect information.
12. PLZLEAVEDUCKK - Hi.
13. Calix - Don't even know what her mafia play is, but her play this game is definitely different. Players change their playstyle all of the time, and they should. Based on the play alone I am leaning town. I don't think finding the best course of action for town to take is AI as she would and should be doing it as both alignments. I think her questions have been from a town mindset this game. My worry is that she is being a bit too public relations focused. Will have to juggle if I think this is calix trying to adjust her play from previous games or if she is mafia and does not want to start a war.
14. Kovath- Never lynching him today, he is likely mafia. Yes I mean't what I just typed. He is busy so he will be a tough read for day 1, but town Kovath does not open the way he did this game. I do not want to lynch him because my day 1 read on him sucks, my day 2 read on him is amazing, and I forgot my third reason, but I promise you it sucked.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

i have to repeat again? I have no plan at the moment. I'm allow you to get any information from me but I am NOT allow you to order me or control my vote power. Don't cross the line Calix v)x.o)>

Was about to tell calix to back off of you thinking you were softing a PR here, then I remembered you did a similar post in the previous game as VT and it is just your posting style lol

[Yukitaka Oni]

You haven't said how there ISN'T a discrepancy in the two thought processes I outlined in the post above, nor have you explained how or why you thought I was trying to control your vote.

What about the mechanics don't make sense to you?

Let's say if everyone vote group 1, i know it doesn't mean game going to lynch entire player in the group, but does that mean the next day, people have to pick the group again or only can lynch the player in the group 1? It's kind of....confused v(o.o(<

[Yukitaka Oni]

Was about to tell calix to back off of you thinking you were softing a PR here, then I remembered you did a similar post in the previous game as VT and it is just your posting style lol

Sorry, i will not softclaim any role this time day 1. Gotta change my play style, doesn't mean I have any good plan at the moment...<(o.o)>

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Let's say if everyone vote group 1, i know it doesn't mean game going to lynch entire player in the group, but does that mean the next day, people have to pick the group again or only can lynch the player in the group 1? It's kind of....confused v(o.o(<

Pick any group on any day.

I also believe there is a hidden mechanic to prevent town from losing on night 1. There is no way with 4 votes that it is possible for town to lose after one miss lynch.

[Calix]

I am like a crack whore obsessed with posting, so I will post where I am at with a brief synopsis rather than detailed ISO's.

1. Never Unlucky - not much from him so far but leaning town. I think if he does flip scum it confirms that calix and myself are town as his avoidance of group b as scum would mean that his partner in that group is likely to get lynched.
2. JealousTL - I see town motivation in his posts. I feel a town trying to solve the game vibe here.
4. Gingerape - Breadcrumbs so openly, too scummy to be scum type play? However, I have also seen well thought out logic, and I liked that she went along with my terrible analogy. I think mafia would have been more likely to just call me an idiot and move on rather than continue discussing it and trying to get both of us to the same place.
6. Yukitaka Oni - I personally saw the responses as NAI, but if calix believes Yuki is more defensive than normal, he began to conform more to his usual yuki self afterwards, and could be a mafia trying to correct behavior that got him pinged out.
7. Shapelog - had a scum read on him for his opening. Went back and reread the first page and realized he was not pulling a g4slight but referencing that the game started because 13 players confirmed, and not that he was player 13. I will need to third read his posts before I put him anywhere so he is null for me.
11. Titus - Pretty strong town so far. The considering of all possibilities and reevaluating them this early on is a good sign that they do not have perfect information.
12. PLZLEAVEDUCKK - Hi.
13. Calix - Don't even know what her mafia play is, but her play this game is definitely different. Players change their playstyle all of the time, and they should. Based on the play alone I am leaning town. I don't think finding the best course of action for town to take is AI as she would and should be doing it as both alignments. I think her questions have been from a town mindset this game. My worry is that she is being a bit too public relations focused. Will have to juggle if I think this is calix trying to adjust her play from previous games or if she is mafia and does not want to start a war.
14. Kovath- Never lynching him today, he is likely mafia. Yes I mean't what I just typed. He is busy so he will be a tough read for day 1, but town Kovath does not open the way he did this game. I do not want to lynch him because my day 1 read on him sucks, my day 2 read on him is amazing, and I forgot my third reason, but I promise you it sucked.

>making reads lists



That aside, doing that is a dangerous play for scum because they can slip in so many ways by dumping all of their reads into one post for everyone to see.

Your #11 point seems like it would apply here, actually. Looks like everything you said has enough backing in the thread and isn't making any stretches or using hidden information which makes your "I don't have a rolecard" post seem more legit > WIFOM9000 master plan.

In regards to reads, I think the majority of the scum are inactive. It doesn't feel like there's been any kind of scum manipulation or disruption going on in the thread - most of it was just Jealous/ me/ you prancing around and singing kumbaya and nobody was trying to break that up at all.

I laugh at this.

[Yukitaka Oni]

You haven't said how there ISN'T a discrepancy in the two thought processes I outlined in the post above, nor have you explained how or why you thought I was trying to control your vote.

What about the mechanics don't make sense to you?

Beside, what if Traitor were lynched before all other mafia is died, does that mean game count him as town?!?!?!
Eh....too many questions I guess, you could just ignore it if you want to. I don't want to disturb your plan or your reading scum right now v(o.o(<