S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)
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  1. ISO #1

    S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)

    Setup (13 players):

    Heretic Rogue
    Heretic Machiavellian

    Inquisitor
    Zealot Support
    Zealot Support
    Zealot Support
    Zealot Investigative
    Zealot Investigative
    Zealot Investigative
    Zealot Cooperative
    Zealot Cooperative
    Zealot Random
    Zealot Random


    Win Conditions and Major Game Mechanics:

    A player is voted for lynching via anonymous PM. A player is lynched IF:
    1) Hard Majority: If most of the votes are on a particular player
    OR:
    2) Strong Plurality: If the player has the most votes and the player is "ahead" of the second-most-voted by at least 2 votes.
    (You have to declare you are sending a PM in daychat, or I'll roleblock you for that night)

    Game ends when Heretics kill everyone else, or when the Heretics are dead.

    Heretic WC: Kill everyone else

    Inquisitor WC: Heretics lose.

    Zealot WC:
    -Survive until the end
    (AND)
    -Accomplish one of the following:
    1) See player A OR player B lynched. (A and B will always be zealots)
    2) See all the Heretics lynched by the end of day X. (X is a number between 3 and 5)

    Alsoooo:

    -At the end of each day, every player can start a single night chat of whatever size with whoever he pleases.
    -Heretics will have a factional night kill (Rogue will have the final say).
    -Heretics can manipulate all investigative information related to themselves. This means, each night, they can choose what investigatives see if an investigative investigates them that night.
    -Both day and night will be 48 hours.
    -Roles are revealed upon death.
    -No LWs.
    -Heretics will be able to talk 48 hours pre-game.
    -You can ping a player with the @ thingy during the day. If a player fails to acknowledge to your ping before 24 hours have passed, they will be roleblocked. If you ping a player more than twice, you will be roleblocked. An acknowledgement can be "#243 Ping dunno lol" or "#561 Ping can't be bothered to read that", but they must acknowledge the ping to avoid roleblock.

    Oh shit! I just remembered I forgot to mention something! Also, if day X passes and both of a zealot's targets have died at night (in other words, they can't win the game), they'll auto-commit suicide.

    ^Anywayy, that's not a major rule that stops the game breaking or anything lel.


    Breakdown of Roles:

    Spoiler : Zealots: Support: Bishop, Magister, Missionary, Consultor Investigative: Monk, Astrologist, Confessor, Archivist Cooperation: Auditor, Exorcist, Sexton :


    Bishop
    Can choose a target at night, rendering all votes on them the following day null.
    Cannot target the same person twice in a row.
    Cannot self-target.

    Magister
    Can choose a target at night, redirecting all night actions towards that target to another player of your choice.
    Cannot target the same person twice in a row.
    Cannot self-target.

    Missionary
    Can choose a target at night, granting them an extra night action for that night.
    Targets must have sent the host an extra night action for that night, or they will only use their night action once.
    Cannot target the same person twice in a row.
    Cannot self-target.

    Consultor
    Can PM players at any time via. an anonymous account.
    Can be PMed back.
    Can also open up up to 3 night chats each night rather than one.

    Monk
    Can choose a target at night, learning their role subset (support, investigative or cooperative) and their "Player A and Player B".
    Can target dead people.
    Visiting an inquisitor will give investigative as the subset, and 2 random players.
    You won't get feedback until 24 hours into the day.

    Astrologist
    Can choose a target at night, learning every role that visited that target for this night and previous nights.
    Can target dead people.
    You won't get feedback until 24 hours into the day.

    Confessor
    Can choose a target at night, gaining a transcript of the target's night chat, and learning who their target visits.
    Inquisitors will seem to visit the first investigation submitted in PM.
    You won't get feedback until 24 hours into the day.

    Archivist
    Will be given a list of all investigations that took place the previous night at the beginning of the day.
    Can select an investigation during the day, learning its contents by the end of the day.
    Can select an investigation that took place on an even earlier night.
    You won't get feedback until 24 hours into the day.

    Auditor
    Can choose a target at night, changing their "player A and player B" to a single "player C" of your choice.
    The lynch-target-switch has 2 charges.
    Targets are informed their target changed (lol).

    Exorcist
    Can choose a target at night to be "marked".
    Can choose to kill a "marked" player at night.
    Cannot mark and kill on the same night.
    Kill has 2 charges.
    Targets are informed they are marked.

    Sexton
    Can choose a role from the graveyard at night, gaining its power for that night and the next.
    Cannot choose a new role until 2 nights have passed (including the night on which the original role was chosen).


    Spoiler : Heretics: Rogue, Machiavellian :


    Rogue
    Can choose a player at night, learning all investigative information that can be received from that player for that night.
    Can twist that information during the first 24 hours of the following day to however he sees fit.

    Machiavellian
    Has the powers of a consultor.
    Can Bishop, Magister or Preach a player at night.
    Or, they can remove all supporting buffs from a chosen player at night.
    Cannot target the same person twice in a row.
    Cannot self-target.



    Spoiler : Inquisitors: Inquisitor :


    Inquisitor
    Can Monk, Astrologist or Spy on a player at night.
    Can conduct two investigations.
    Can choose a player to become the new inquisitor at night, in the event that the inquisitor dies.



    Fin

    I have ideas for feedback text and flavor text. I'll write that up with an OoO if the setup shows any promise.

    Ideas to make setup less shit / general feedback are deeply appreciated, obviously.
    Last edited by yzb25; July 24th, 2016 at 04:40 PM. Reason: OOPS

  2. ISO #2

    Re: S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)

    Concern: You mention that every player can select a player to have a night chat with at the end of every day. This sounds like it's expected that every player is there are at the end of day, which I can see becoming a huge problem throughout the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  3. ISO #3

    Re: S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)

    Concern: I feel like this game could end up with multiple suicides. For example, if player 3 has player 1 and 2 as their target, and player 1 is dead and player 2 JUST died, causing them to suicide, then others who had (for example) players 1 and 3 as a target, they would suicide as well, and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  4. ISO #4

    Re: S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Heretic WC: Kill everyone else

    Inquisitor WC: Heretics lose.
    Why is Inquisitor in the setup? Just seems like a cult that cannot actually die and can side with the Zealots. (thus meaning they are extremely unlikely to lose as they only have to lynch two players)

    Zealot WC:
    -Survive until the end
    (AND)
    -Accomplish one of the following:
    1) See player A OR player B lynched. (A and B will always be zealots)
    2) See all the Heretics lynched by the end of day X. (X is a number between 3 and 5)
    Given that the Heretics have a night kill, having the Zealots have a Survivor/ Executioner win condition seems unfair. It also means that even if a Zealot accomplishes one of their win conditions, they would lose just by being targeted by the Heretics. (I'm definitely not biased here)

    It's also possible that everyone decides to claim their player targets and lynch the players who are mentioned the most. (e.g., if 4 players have Player A as a target, they would be lynched) This also narrows down who the Heretics are quickly as every Zealot knows at least two other Zealots. Heretics would be unable to fake-claim with their partner as a target either.

    POE becomes an even bigger issue with the specific categories for the Zealots in the role list. I don't see that doing anything but making it harder for the Heretics to fake-claim a role.

    It also doesn't make much sense for the "see all Heretics lynched by DX" win condition because the Zealots have to kill the Heretics anyway...otherwise the game doesn't end and they can't "survive to the end"


    -At the end of each day, every player can start a single night chat of whatever size with whoever he pleases.
    What is the purpose of this mechanic?

    -You can ping a player with the @ thingy during the day. If a player fails to acknowledge to your ping before 24 hours have passed, they will be roleblocked. If you ping a player more than twice, you will be roleblocked. An acknowledgement can be "#243 Ping dunno lol" or "#561 Ping can't be bothered to read that", but they must acknowledge the ping to avoid roleblock.
    See above question. Not sure why some of the mechanics you have included are in this game.

    What incentive does the Bishop [Governor] have to use their role, given their win conditions?

    Why would a Missionary want to use their role?

    Are the Magister's targeted informed of being controlled?

    Again, I'm not sure why Investigatives would care to use their role.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orpz View Post
    Why'd you leave out the sun emoji? I think it creates a huge sense of tone that is critical for the interpretation of the chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM Romeo View Post
    Go fuck yourself in the cucho.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed
    Your accent has ruined medieval fantasy films.

  5. ISO #5

    Re: S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    Why is Inquisitor in the setup? Just seems like a cult that cannot actually die and can side with the Zealots. (thus meaning they are extremely unlikely to lose as they only have to lynch two players)
    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    It also doesn't make much sense for the "see all Heretics lynched by DX" win condition because the Zealots have to kill the Heretics anyway...otherwise the game doesn't end and they can't "survive to the end"
    At the beginning of the game, zealots will have a vested interest to lynch (or at least frame their lynches) in an attempt to kill scum. The DX wincon is doable, and even if it goes pear-shaped, the zealots have a decent chance of weakening the heretics enough to finish them later (assuming 3 random lynches happen, 11/13*9/11*7/9[=0.54] is the probability of 3 town mislynches with pure random lynch). Even if some zealots disagree, they'll get forced to publicly go with the consensus or risk looking like heretics trying to deprioritize a heretic lynch - the vote is anonymous so zealots can silently policy lynch / scumread those who dislike a heretic lynch.

    However, if zealots fail to finish scum quickly, the incentive to rely on victory by lynching their A or B will grow. Naturally, if the game ends before a zealot can satisfy the day X or lynch a target condition, then that zealot will lose. So the game will slowly begin to degenerate into zealots trying to win by picking off a target.

    At this point, the permanently-present pure town inquisitor will become relevant. Though only a single player, he represents half the heretic's lynching power. And, if the inquisitor lineage plays their cards well, they will have a very good idea of who the scums are by the late game, and who everyone else is for that matter. They will give the heretics a final challenge, and give some zealots a glimmer of hope.

    So, an individual zealot's path to victory will depend on if the DX wincon can be pulled off and, if not, how he ensures he can still win through the other wincon.

    This is my "ideal vision" for how the setup would look. I'll probably make some way to reduce heretic KPN in the later stages to let the game play out like that.

    I hope this indirectly explains the intended effect of the obscure wincons and the immortal inquisitor ^^.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    Given that the Heretics have a night kill, having the Zealots have a Survivor/ Executioner win condition seems unfair. It also means that even if a Zealot accomplishes one of their win conditions, they would lose just by being targeted by the Heretics. (I'm definitely not biased here)
    While it's true that everyone has a vested interest to kill scum on the first few days, (so light scumhunting won't be punished as everyone is doing it) a player who scumhunts too aggressively without tunneling has a good chance of being policy-night-killed. Though, it's probably moreso in scum's interests to kill potential cooperatives/inquisitors who could screw them hard if they grow too powerful.

    Of course, a "survive to the end" WC will always suck for players who are too active and get focused down. That is why to win Calix, you must find your inner lurker =P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    What is the purpose of this mechanic? (everyone forming night chats)

    See above question. Not sure why some of the mechanics you have included are in this game.

    What incentive does the Bishop [Governor] have to use their role, given their win conditions?

    Why would a Missionary want to use their role?

    Are the Magister's targeted informed of being controlled?

    Again, I'm not sure why Investigatives would care to use their role.
    Feedback only comes from Exorcist and Auditor.

    Anyway, my game is about making friends.

    Investigatives' information is shit for scumhunting, but it will help them find out about other players, and find out what they want and what they can offer. And making friends is all about stalking.

    Support's gifts will never directly help themselves, but it will give them reason to be helped / protected by others, so that the support can give more gifts. And making friends is all about materialistic alliances.

    Exorcist and Auditor can force people to do what they want, through the threat / control of their win condition. And making friends is all about coercion.

    And of course, friends cannot be well-made without private, intimate conversations in the dead of night.

    It is possible to read someone and figure out whether they're playing like a heretic or role X, naturally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#ffffff]It's also possible that everyone decides to claim their player targets and lynch the players who are mentioned the most. (e.g., if 4 players have Player A as a target, they would be lynched) This also narrows down who the Heretics are quickly as every Zealot knows at least two other Zealots. Heretics would be unable to fake-claim with their partner as a target either.
    That's an interesting strat., but I can't imagine that happening due to several flaws.
    1) Probability for group: It's very possible everyone only has 2 people targetting them. Even then, I am making sure everyone has at least one person who hates them with the RNG method I'll use, so 4 people hating one person is not impossible but unlikely.
    2) Probability for you: It's unlikely you will benefit from partaking in the strategy whole-heartedly, because it's unlikely you'll be in a "big clump" in the first place. Even if you take the gamble, you're revealing first and hoping everyone else does.
    3) Cooperation: If you see loads of players piling on you, you will probably lie and say your target is second-most-likely. Scums will likely unite and create an extra pile. If you truly say your targets out loud, and your targets are unpopular, you will make it almost impossible to get your targets lynched for the first few days: "say, don't you want to lynch that guy anyway? He's like 90% confirmed if he's your target". Inquisitor will likely make up targets rather than reveal. My point is, many people will have a vested interest to lie, making it an unreliable/dodgy way to narrow things down, or even create a consensus.
    4) Arguments: The arguments that will inevitably arise from all the above flaws being discussed for 5 pages will likely make this strategy never happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    POE becomes an even bigger issue with the specific categories for the Zealots in the role list. I don't see that doing anything but making it harder for the Heretics to fake-claim a role.
    I can play around with the number of Zealot Randoms to reach a good place, but roleclaiming in daychat is probably not in each zealot's vested interest, meaning CC issues are smaller as well lol. (Sorry, I don't know what POE stands for and I'm guessing from the context of your comment). I have no issue with having the same role 4 times, unless it's sexton or archivist. So you can shove your host meta up your arse lol. It's purely meant as a way to say "there will be at least a few of this kind of role".

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Concern: You mention that every player can select a player to have a night chat with at the end of every day. This sounds like it's expected that every player is there are at the end of day, which I can see becoming a huge problem throughout the game.
    Dead people won't create night chats, and if an alive person attempts to set up a night chat including dead people, there will only be alive people. Sorry if I've misinterpreted what you were saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Concern: I feel like this game could end up with multiple suicides. For example, if player 3 has player 1 and 2 as their target, and player 1 is dead and player 2 JUST died, causing them to suicide, then others who had (for example) players 1 and 3 as a target, they would suicide as well, and so on.
    Yep. I tried to avoid a domino effect occurring too easily by having zealots have 2 executioner targets. But I am still drawn to the idea heheh ^^.
    If it's disgusting I can make people have a third target or I can try and make "suicide chains" less likely by making an RNG that avoids too many shared targets. I can also adjust the KPN of the heretics if too many zealots are naturally suiciding.
    Last edited by yzb25; July 25th, 2016 at 07:01 AM.

  6. ISO #6

    Re: S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)

    I also don't know how the scum-hunting will actually work. What it feels like, and correct me if wrong, but it looks like the only thing that will be done is people trying to lynch their target. No scum-hunting, it will be people just trying to vote their targets. I'm not sure if there would be a way around this, but unless a single person has a ton of people targeting him, I would expect it to be a bunch of no-Lynches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  7. ISO #7

    Re: S-FM Love Thy Lurker (WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At the beginning of the game, zealots will have a vested interest to lynch (or at least frame their lynches) in an attempt to kill scum. The DX wincon is doable, and even if it goes pear-shaped, the zealots have a decent chance of weakening the heretics enough to finish them later (assuming 3 random lynches happen, 11/13*9/11*7/9[=0.54] is the probability of 3 town mislynches with pure random lynch). Even if some zealots disagree, they'll get forced to publicly go with the consensus or risk looking like heretics trying to deprioritize a heretic lynch - the vote is anonymous so zealots can silently policy lynch / scumread those who dislike a heretic lynch.

    However, if zealots fail to finish scum quickly, the incentive to rely on victory by lynching their A or B will grow. Naturally, if the game ends before a zealot can satisfy the day X or lynch a target condition, then that zealot will lose. So the game will slowly begin to degenerate into zealots trying to win by picking off a target.
    That's not really a game of mafia then, is it? You admit yourself that the game is more focused on cooperating, using night actions to determine who the best targets to negotiate are and using POE (process of elimination) to find the scum while trying not to get targeted by the scum.

    If you're interested in a bartering-type game, wouldn't a Doctor/ roles that offer protection make sense?

    Can you tell me what your intent was when making this setup? As in, what inspired you to make it? I don't quite follow.


    At this point, the permanently-present pure town inquisitor will become relevant. Though only a single player, he represents half the heretic's lynching power. And, if the inquisitor lineage plays their cards well, they will have a very good idea of who the scums are by the late game, and who everyone else is for that matter. They will give the heretics a final challenge, and give some zealots a glimmer of hope.

    Not sure what your point is here as I still do not understand the point of Inquisitor. Their win condition is far too easy and thus they are likely to win regardless of how poorly they play. Please clarify.


    While it's true that everyone has a vested interest to kill scum on the first few days, (so light scumhunting won't be punished as everyone is doing it) a player who scumhunts too aggressively without tunneling has a good chance of being policy-night-killed. Though, it's probably moreso in scum's interests to kill potential cooperatives/inquisitors who could screw them hard if they grow too powerful.

    Of course, a "survive to the end" WC will always suck for players who are too active and get focused down. That is why to win Calix, you must find your inner lurker =P.
    Speaking from experience, I can tell you that the scum will go for a) the active, savvy players or b) the veteran players first without a doubt. I've lurked and still died on N1 on multiple occasions. (see: World of Music, Matrix6) The game will just turn into a lurkfest that is filled with players who are too inexperienced to use the strategies that you provided in your response which won't be very entertaining. That's not going to provide any incentive for many players to sign up...

    Interesting thoughts on the strategy although I am inclined to think that players will consider my idea in an attempt to "break" or mechanically solve the game.


    I can play around with the number of Zealot Randoms to reach a good place, but roleclaiming in daychat is probably not in each zealot's vested interest, meaning CC issues are smaller as well lol. (Sorry, I don't know what POE stands for and I'm guessing from the context of your comment). I have no issue with having the same role 4 times, unless it's sexton or archivist. So you can shove your host meta up your arse lol. It's purely meant as a way to say "there will be at least a few of this kind of role".
    I would remove the possibility of host meta entirely.

    All this is doing is making me think I've taken Mesk's drugs ;)

    I share Unknown's concerns that this game is not actually playable. Interesting base concept but needs a lot of tweaking in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orpz View Post
    Why'd you leave out the sun emoji? I think it creates a huge sense of tone that is critical for the interpretation of the chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM Romeo View Post
    Go fuck yourself in the cucho.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed
    Your accent has ruined medieval fantasy films.

 

 

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