S-FM 8, 4v4; 2v2; 1v8

[Quick]

8 players. 2 groups of 4.

Hidden Town
Hidden Town
Hidden Town
Hidden Town
Town Citizen
Town Citizen

Hidden Mafia
Hidden Mafia

Hidden 3p
Hidden 3p




Group 1:
Hidden Town (Negative Utility)
Hidden Town (Positive Utility)
2HP Town Citizen
Hidden Mafia
Hidden 3p

Group 2:
Hidden Town (Negative Utility)
Hidden Town (Positive Utility)
2HP Town Citizen
Hidden Mafia
Hidden 3p

Possible Roles:

Special Note: Jester has been changed to Executioner.

Town:

Welcome [player X], you are a 2HP Town Citizen aligned with Town. You only have 2 HPs. You have no special actions or abilities.

Welcome [player X], you are a Lookout aligned with Town. You are Positive Utility. You have 3 HPs.

During the night you may investigate someone to learn who, if anybody, targeted that player that night (but not what actions were performed on that player).

Possible Results are:
Players [X, Y, Z ect.] targeted this player or no one targeted OR N/A

Welcome [player X], you are a Sherif aligned with town. You are Positive Utility. You have 3 HPs.

During the night you may investigate someone to learn what alignment they are.

Possible Results are:
Player is Town or Mafia or 3p OR N/A

Welcome [Player X], you are Doctor Aligned with Town. You are Positive Utility. You have 3 HPs.

During the night you may protect someone from Night Kill.

Welcome [Player X], you are 5 HP Townie Aligned with Town. You are Positive Utility. You have 5 HPs.

You have 5 HP instead of 3

Welcome [Player X], you are a Random active ability Town Enabler Aligned with Town. You are Negative Utility.

When you die a random TPR will lose their ability to do a Night action.

Welcome [Player X], you are a [Survivor OR Jester OR Cultist OR Malicious Savior] Millar (where applicable) Aligned with Town. You are Negative Utility. You have 3 HPs.

Upon investigation, you will show up as a 3p role not in the game.

Welcome [Player X], you are 1 HP Townie Aligned with Town. You are Negative Utility.

You have 1 HP instead of 3

Welcome [Player X], you are an Actor Aligned with Town. You are Negative Utility. You have 3 HPs.

You may only make the Hammer Vote or be ModKilled.

Mafia:

Welcome [player X], you are a Agent aligned with Mafia.

During the night you may investigate someone to learn what who visited this player and who that player visited that night and may execute the Night Kill.

Possible results are:
Player visited [Player Y] and was visited by [Player(s) Z].

Welcome [player X], you are a Consigliere aligned with Mafia.

During the night you may investigate someone to learn what exact Role that player is and may execute the Night Kill.

Possible results are:
Player is [X] Role.

Welcome [player X], you are a Consort aligned with Mafia.

During the night you may Roleblock a player that night and may execute the Night Kill.

Welcome [player X], you are a Sacrificer aligned with Mafia.

If you are lynched, you may pick a player that night to have their Night Results given to your remaining Mafia partner and may execute the Night Kill.

3p:

Welcome [player X], you are a Executioner and are 3p.

You win when you Lynch your target.

Your target is [Player Y].

Welcome [player X], you are a Survivor and are 3p.

You win when you survive the other 3p.

Welcome [player X], you are a Serial Killer Abductor and are 3p.

During the night, you may attempt to kidnap someone. If you bring a players HP to 0 you kidnap them, taking them and yourself out of the game and you win. Attempting kidnap takes up 1 HP.

Welcome [player X], you are a Malicious Savior and are 3p.

During the night, you may attempt to restore a player's HP. If you successfully restore a player's HP and live to see Mafia win, you win. you know who is Mafia at the start of the game.

Possible results:
You have successfully restored a player's HP OR You have not successfully restored a player's HP.

Win cons:
Town:
Lynch all mafia with at least 1 Town player remaining.
Mafia:
Gain a majority of the original members of any one group.
Executioner: Get your target lynched.
Survivor: Out survive the other 3p.
Serial Killer Abductor: Abduct a single person in the game thereby killing them.
Malicious Saviour: Add a point to someone's HP who has lost HP or add HP to 1HP townie and live to see Mafia win the game.

Order of Operations (OoO):
Sherif
Detector
Agent
Night Kill
Lookout
Serial Killer Abductor
Doctor
Malicious Savior
Consort

Mechanics:
Day cycle is 3 days; 48 hour day phase 24 hour night phase.
Mafia share DAY CHAT.
Lynch is decided by majority.
Player's Role and Alignment will be given upon death.
All roles are unique.


Special mechanics:
Each day a Group is picked (odd and even days) to vote someone off from. All parties can vote for someone from that group. Once one group has eliminated the mafia OR 3p from that group The groups join into one group. Winning survivor is taken out of the game if they achieve their win con, but that may or may not end the game. Each player gets 3 HP. Getting lynched counts as 3 points taken away and getting NKed counts as 2 point taken away. Players are told if they have a point(s) taken away. Mafia must NK someone from the previous group to Lynch from. Game ends when Town or Mafia Win. Serial Killer Abductor can try to recruit someone which takes 1 point. If Serial Killer Abductor depletes the target of HP then that person becomes abducted and is taken out of the game with the Serial Killer Abductor and they win solo vicory.

Lookout is paired with Enabler. Sheriff is paired with Millar. Doctor is paired with 1HP Townie. 5HP Townie is paired with Actor. Millar will be checked as a 3P that is not in the game. Agent is paired with Consort and Detector is paired with Sacrificer. Executioner is paired with Serial Killer Abductor and Survivor is paired with Malicious Savior. If Serial Killer Abductor recruits someone in the game they win and both parties are taken out of the game. The person recruited can still win with their original team and do not share a win con with the Serial Killer Abductor. for all intents and purposes lets just say Serial Killer Abductor kills the person they recruit.

RULES OF CONDUCT:
NO OUTSIDE COMMUNICATION ABOUT THE GAME (Ex. skype, pms, other threads, phones calls and the like.)
NO QUOTING ANYTHING FROM OUTSIDE THE GAME
NO FAKE QUOTING
NO EDITING OR DELETING POSTS
NO EXCESSIVE PERSONAL ATTACKS (I will be the one to decide that)
NO POSTING ANY LANGUAGE BUT ENGLISH
LIMIT FLUFF POSTING TO A BARE MINIMUM (I will be the one to decide that)
HYDRAS ARE ALLOWED BETWEEN 2 PEOPLE, BUT ONE MEMBER MUST HAVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE THAT THEY HAVE PLAYED AT LEAST 3 GAMES
GOLDEN ROD IS MY COLOR DO NOT USE IT
YOU MUST POST AT LEAST 3 CONTENT RELATED POST EACH 24 HOUR PERIOD.
YOU ARE TO PLAY TO YOUR WIN CONDITION. IF I THINK YOU ARE NOT AND I WARN YOU AND YOU DO IT ANYWAYS, I WILL EXPLAIN IN DETAIL TO THE MODS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND YOU WILL BE SUBJECTED TO PUNISHMENT IF THE MODS AGREE WITH ME
GAME THROWING OR THREATENING TO GAME THROW IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
THREATENING TO BREAK THE RULE IS JUST AS BAD AS BREAKING THEM IN MY GAMES.
HAVE FUN!!!

Special Note:
@MattZed said this site was in need of game with <10 people so I decided to oblige. I started Making this game 4 hours ago, so if it looks like crap its because I didn't spend much time making it. I will say that Knowledge is power and I learned a lot from making my other 15 player game.

[DarknessB]

Let me just say -- you have an unhealthy obsession with this odd group mechanic in games, lol. Might want to see how well it's received / the initial game goes before doubling and tripling down on it.

[ika]

whats to stope a mass claim and GG.

@DarknessB about 90% of setups here are odd mechanics so i dont get it

[Quick]

whats to stope a mass claim and GG.

@DarknessB about 90% of setups here are odd mechanics so i dont get it

This game relies heavily on what 3p does. 2 Town claim TPR and Mafia claim TPR and then the only question is what 3p is going to do. If 3p claim TPR its a wash. What 3p is going to do a real claim though? Prolly only Survivor would even risk claimin 3p. Worst case scenario: So say the two town claim Doc and 1 HP Townie. Mafia in that group claim Actor and 3p claim Lookout. Say those are the exact Roles the other Group has as Town and the Mafia and 3p are CC. There would then be a 4/10 (I'm not good at math so this could be wrong) chance of Town Lynching Scum with town taking up 4/5 of the votes. So it would have to be 4 Town Votes + 1 3p Vote to lynch mafia, otherwise 3 Town Votes + 2 3p to lynch mafia Otherwise 2 Town Votes + 2 3p Votes + 1 mafia Vote.

I hope I actually answered your question in there somewhere. Basically because Town will never have enough votes for a majority, it depends on what 3p does. Town have to win over 3p to vote with them.

But if you have thought this out more than me, I'd like to hear how game can be solved with mass claim.

[DarknessB]

whats to stope a mass claim and GG.

@DarknessB about 90% of setups here are odd mechanics so i dont get it

Coincidentally, I don't like 90% of setups here with those odd mechanics. S-FM Watermeloann being the notable exception of course for its greatness.

[ika]

my big issue on this looking at it agin @Quick is that the 3rd party should jsut claim outright and block town form ever gaining a majority lynch, even if you make it pluarlity, that makes it a "chance" game, not only that but then if nobody got lynched the person who got attacked can jut claim and be confirmed not mafia.

[ika]

Coincidentally, I don't like 90% of setups here with those odd mechanics. S-FM Watermeloann being the notable exception of course for its greatness.

why are you an smod again? :P

[Quick]

my big issue on this looking at it agin @Quick is that the 3rd party should jsut claim outright and block town form ever gaining a majority lynch, even if you make it pluarlity, that makes it a "chance" game, not only that but then if nobody got lynched the person who got attacked can jut claim and be confirmed not mafia.

What if I add a Vig and buss driver instead of Sherif and Doc? For the second thing, anyone can really claim they were hit during the night.

[ika]

What if I add a Vig and buss driver instead of Sherif and Doc? For the second thing, anyone can really claim they were hit during the night.

i think a 3v1v1 would be a better grouping by adding 2 towns to each group and make them citizen

i like the idea of vig a little more, death should not be distinguised though, bus driver should also be uninformed and compulsive

yes anyone can claim to eb attck but if jester claims it and then someone CC its jsut a 1v1 game

[ika]

also if you leave it as it it does not solve the problem of a neutral/mafia from jsut abstaining the lycnh or tie voting and making it chance

[Quick]

also if you leave it as it it does not solve the problem of a neutral/mafia from jsut abstaining the lycnh or tie voting and making it chance

I will prolly end up making this a plurality lynch. You have to remember that you have 8 people voting for 4 people. I can think about adding some citizens, but the point of me making this setup was to make it <10 players, since that is what Matt said the site was short on. I also said the setup could very well be crap since I didn't spend a whole lot of time working on it and it seems to be apparent that that is the case. I mean, I can even go a set 2 vig with 2 1 HP Townies and I think it would be better balanced at this point..

[Edit] My original plan was to make 2 survivors try and out survive the other and that might be an option worth exploring.

[ika]

wait, the entire 8 people are voting and not jsut the 4?

[Quick]

wait, the entire 8 people are voting and not jsut the 4?

Yeah. Its a little different than the 15 player game. One diff is that the groups alternated days and then the 8 people vote someone off from that group.

[DarknessB]

why are you an smod again? :P

Mostly for the Wiki and for in-game moderation, lol. I tend to like more vanilla S-FMs, at least not ones off in the Deathworlds corner of the universe (no offense to intended Deathworlds of course).

[MattZed]

@Quick , I plan on approving this soon if you're interested in hosting.

[Quick]

@Quick , I plan on approving this soon if you're interested in hosting.

Absolutely! I'll admit I almost forgot about this game. I waited for a decent amount of time to get my one of my setups run here so pretty excited that its becoming a reality.

Do you have any questions about the setup?

[MattZed]

Absolutely! I'll admit I almost forgot about this game. I waited for a decent amount of time to get my one of my setups run here so pretty excited that its becoming a reality.

Do you have any questions about the setup?

I'll have quite a few questions because of the special mechanic and the fact that town starts without a majority; it seems to me that mafia can win by just getting a single mislynch and then shooting one other person in the first group. Will get to these soon.

[Quick]

I'll have quite a few questions because of the special mechanic and the fact that town starts without a majority; it seems to me that mafia can win by just getting a single mislynch and then shooting one other person in the first group. Will get to these soon.

I could simply add a citizen to each group. The thing is tho that as soon as Mafia OR 3p die then the groups are conjoined.

[Edit] Also, there is a point system. This means that upon a NK that person doesn't die with a single shot.

[Quick]

@MattZed , I have Edited the OP.

[Quick]

@MattZed ,

I don't suppose you have a Time line for what happens when with this? There is a game on my home site I want to play and I feel I can't do both. But thing is, hosting this game is a priority to me, so if I know when you think this game is going to be run, then I can make a decision on if I want to stay in the game I want to play in or not.

[MattZed]

@Quick , you're approved for signups, but will need to respond to the questions/concerns below before the game start. Was just busy last night. =)

Given this is a Town v Mafia game, I really do insist that town starts with a majority. You can add a town of hidden utility to each group, for instance.

There seems to be a general issue here of too much information; the pairing of roles and guarantee of one positive and one negative utility give the town a lot of room to simply win the game by clever roleclaims. (IE: everyone claims positive or negative utility, then sort out who can be paired with whom.)

Suggestion: Unpair the roles and perhaps not reveal the number of positive and negative utility roles in the game.

"Detector" is more commonly called "Consigliere" on our site, and would be easier for players to follow if you renamed it.

For the Sacrificer, does "that night" refer to the night after they're killed?

Cultist works by taking away 1 HP from a player, and then recruits successfully if they reduce the player to 0 HP, correct?

Can the Cultist recruit a mafia?

Concern: The Malicious Savior's wincon is too hard; he needs to survive, have the mafia win, and correctly guess someone who needs HP, in doing so making his wincon harder by keeping them alive. Not to mention that, in the current pairing, he has a survivor trying to kill him.

[Quick]

@Quick , you're approved for signups, but will need to respond to the questions/concerns below before the game start. Was just busy last night. =)

Given this is a Town v Mafia game, I really do insist that town starts with a majority. You can add a town of hidden utility to each group, for instance.

I can add a 2HP citizen to each group, but the reason that Town doesn't have a majority is because a NK from that previous night is not at all guaranteed to end in a death.

There seems to be a general issue here of too much information; the pairing of roles and guarantee of one positive and one negative utility give the town a lot of room to simply win the game by clever roleclaims. (IE: everyone claims positive or negative utility, then sort out who can be paired with whom.)

Adding a 2HP citizen to each group might solve this since it adds more roles to the game to make Mass Claim harder to figure out in the time needed before Scum win. That would mean if all 4 Scum (Mafia and 3p) claim citizen then you would be left with 6 citizen claims which would not be enough lynches for Town to solve the game with mass claim.

Optimal strategy to get to LyLo if Positive Utility and Negative utility claim their roles and all Scum Claim Citizen and only Town is lynched:

slash denotes dead.
Dark Orange denotes Lynch
Red denotes Mafia
Number denotes NK order by Night
Purple Denotes 3p
Navy Denotes NKed

Group 1	Group 2
Positive: 1, 2	Positive
Negative	Negative
Citizen	Citizen
Citizen	Citizen
Citizen	Citizen

Because of this, I am going to let Scum NK Whoever they want on all nights instead of saying they have to NK someone from the previous group to vote off.

Suggestion: Unpair the roles and perhaps not reveal the number of positive and negative utility roles in the game.

I wanted to make this a game where there were no citizen roles in the game at all. I am willing to add a single Citizen role to each group so that per Group all roles are Unique with a positive utility, negative utility and neutral for the Town Roles. So as you see, if Citizen is lynched because of claims it creates a 3 way dynamic where there is one of each faction in that group and Mafia and 3p both know who Town is, but Town doesn't know who Mafia and 3p are, but as long as Mafia or 3p get voted off, it conjoins the Groups. Could make things interesting.

"Detector" is more commonly called "Consigliere" on our site, and would be easier for players to follow if you renamed it.

I see no reason why this can't be done.

For the Sacrificer, does "that night" refer to the night after they're killed?

Yes. So if they are lynched day 1, they can pick a player on Night 1 and the remaining Mafia will get the results of that chosen person at SOD on day 2.

Cultist works by taking away 1 HP from a player, and then recruits successfully if they reduce the player to 0 HP, correct?

Yes. So if they choose say, a person with 3 HP then they have 3 nights to recruit them if they aren't targeted for NK. If they bring that persons HP to 0, then that person basically dies and is taken out of the game and Cultist is taken out of the game and they win. The game doesn't necessarily stop then though. It could end the game or it couldn't.

Can the Cultist recruit a mafia?

Yes, cultist can recruit Mafia and the same thing would happen.

Concern: The Malicious Savior's wincon is too hard; he needs to survive, have the mafia win, and correctly guess someone who needs HP, in doing so making his wincon harder by keeping them alive. Not to mention that, in the current pairing, he has a survivor trying to kill him.

I think I will pair the Malicious Savior with Jester and Cultist with Survivor. I will also add that Malicious Savior knows who Mafia is.

[MattZed]

@Quick , I said you could post signups. Are you interested in hosting this soon, or would you prefer to postpone this game?

Adding a 2 HP Cit to each setup would probably do well. I understand the night kill is nerfed, but town should be able to actually get lynches off without needing bussing/assistance from the neuts.

[Quick]

@MattZed ,

Sorry, I've been away for a while. I'm ready to start the game whenever.

[MattZed]

@Quick , Approved for signups.

[Quick]

@MattZed , I made some changes to the OP for balance and changed somethings. Cultist is now Serial Killer Abductor and has a different win con. Malicious Savior now knows who Mafia is at the start of the game. I made the name change of Detector to Consigliere. I changed a rule where players now only have to make 3 content related posts instead of 5 each 24 hour period. I added 2 HP townie citizen to the OP. Please look over the OP to see if I missed anything else. Pretty sure i got everything, but just want to make sure.

[Quick]

I am going to have to delay the game until I get back from vacation. I am leaving on thursday and will get back the following thursday. I have no idea how much I will be able to be online during this time. If on vacation it turns out I will have ample time for online access with a PC I will post the sign ups then.

[MattZed]

@Quick , please post the signup thread when you return this Thursday, or let me know if this won't be possible.

[MattZed]

@Quick , if you'd like to host back-to-back, I'm ready to re-approve this setup. Otherwise, you can wait a bit between hosting.

[Quick]

More than one person has shown their disdain for there being Jester in this setup so I changed it to Lyncher. Are you OK with this @MattZed ?

[MattZed]

More than one person has shown their disdain for there being Jester in this setup so I changed it to Lyncher. Are you OK with this @MattZed ?

You should probably call it an Executioner, as is the more standard name for the role on our site, but that's fine.

[Frog]

Yeah, this hp mechanic is already a major issue

[Frog]

Meh - I'll read it later and comment - but lynches resulting in no lynch and NKs not killing are meh

I'll read it more later

[Frog]

Ok I played out optimal play for any team - it's complacent without regard to night actions. The more conviction you push, the worse for your alignment. This is essentially a jester setup with ho mechanics

[Frog]

@Quick have you played this setup through?
How many times?

The gameplay is very jestery :-/

*edit I'm still signed

[Quick]

@Quick have you played this setup through?
How many times?

The gameplay is very jestery :-/

*edit I'm still signed

There is no jester in the game. Can you elaborate?

[Frog]

Ok, I misread the setup originally.

So lynching is basically the single most important aspect in the game since 4/6 towns can't die at night in one go at least.

It seems like scum can cross kill each other easily, must not get lynched, can't really kill town, and must lynch town consecutively.

I see how the negative utilitie townies make sense.

Looks like 3P's can play whichever way they want, but are very susceptible to night kills (unlike Mafia)

Town 'appear' disadvantaged due to 3:2 ratio, but are much less likely to get NKed, making it more like 5:1:1

Ok, I'm on board, this looks interesting