S-FM Order of Nature

[Gyrlander]

Order of Nature

Role List

Dog

Kitten
Kitten

Mouse
Mouse
Mouse
Mouse
Mouse
Mouse
Mouse

Rolecards

Dog: Visit one player each night. If it's a kitten you'll kill it. Inmune to normal kitten attacks.

Kitten: Visit one player each night either you or the other kitten (factional kill). If the target is a mouse, it'll die. If the other kitten dies you become an Enraged Kitten and your attacks will be able to kill the dog. If your target is a mouse with a vest/a dinousaur you'll be told that he's inmune. Kittens share a night chat.

Possible Upgrade: If you visit the Milk at night you'll get a new rolecard.

Sexy Kitten: You are able to roleblock one player each night. You can perform the night kill and the night action at the same time. If you become an Enraged Kitten you don't lose this upgrade. You keep the night chat and the factional kill with the other kitten.

Mouse: You have a one time use vest.

If you visit a cheese during the night you will receive a new rolecard between these three.

Healer Mouse: Heal one player during the night. You're not informed if your target was attacked. You keep the vest that you had as a normal mouse. You will transform back into a normal mouse next day.

Watcher Mouse: You know which players visited your target. You keep the vest that you had as a normal mouse. You will transform back into a normal mouse next day.

Stalker Mouse: You will track your target and know who he visited. You keep the vest that you had as a normal mouse. You will transform back into a normal mouse next day.

Dinosaur: Nuke one person in the game during the day killing him instantly and poisoning both you and one random player. Poison kills you

Special Mechanics

Dinner is Served

Every night two different types of food will appear in two unknown sections. There are 3 sections in total (A, B or C). You will have to visit one each night.

Milk: You will transform into a Sexy Kitten and you will be able to roleblock a player each night. You can roleblock and perform the factional kill at the same time.

Cheese: If a mouse visits it, it will adquire one attribute for the next night between

Healer: Heal one player during the night. You're not informed if your target was attacked.
Watcher: You know which players visited your target.
Stalker: You will track your target and know who he visited.

WARNING: If you manage to visit a cheese three times during the game you'll become a Dinosaur!

Meat: If a dog visits it, he will be able to check one player Alignment next night.

Win Conditions

Dog: Survive and see both kittens dead and the dinosaur if there is one.
Kittens: Eliminate the mice, the dog and any dinosaur that is alive.
Mice: Eliminate the kittens, the dog and any dinosaur that is alive.
Dinosaur: Make it so nobody wins (except you)

Mechanics

Days are 48 hours long.
Nights are 24 hours long.
PM me your night action everytime. If you wish to not do any, send me a pm saying so.
Lynch is at 51%.
Performing your factional night kill is a night action.
Suicide is allowed if the game reaches Day 6.
Last Wills are allowed.
Death Notes are allowed.

Order of Operations

1. Kittens roleblock.
2. Mouse vests / Healer heals
3. Enraged Kitten/Dog visits.
4. Kittens kill.
5. Investigatives receive their feedback.

Rules

1. No OGC (out of game communication)
2. Insults are alright, but don't be extreme.
3. Don't quote PMs.
4. English only.
5. Minimum of 3 posts each day.
6. Images and videos are allowed, but don't spam them.
7. No excessive use of unrelated posts.
8. Threatened, attempted, or faked gamethrows are prohibited and will result in force replace, modkill or agressive warn at the host's discretion.

[Calix]

If the Mice have to kill the Dog, shouldn't that mean that the Dog should also have "kill all Mice" as part of its win condition?

Can Dinosaurs win with each other at all?

Does a player get to choose which attribute they get? Otherwise their chance of becoming a Dinosaur in the late-game seems like it would be determined by RNG.

This setup seems more determined by RNG and night actions than the last. Not seeing how most of these mechanics would assist with scum-hunting or deception.

[Gyrlander]

If the Mice have to kill the Dog, shouldn't that mean that the Dog should also have "kill all Mice" as part of its win condition?

Can Dinosaurs win with each other at all?

Does a player get to choose which attribute they get? Otherwise their chance of becoming a Dinosaur in the late-game seems like it would be determined by RNG.

This setup seems more determined by RNG and night actions than the last. Not seeing how most of these mechanics would assist with scum-hunting or deception.

When dog kills both kittens, mice can't do shit and dog insta wins.

Dinosaurs can't win with each other.

Mice don't decide the atribute. It is random. But one can't be repeated.

This setup is based on The House thing to help players scum-hunt. I forgot to add that players know who were with them. Adding..

[ika]

this seems more mechanical based cus its jsut gonna be a game of "who visted where" and then they jsut sit there trying to fiugre out the parings.

I would consider makign the enrgaed kitten to be immune just so the game cant end in one cycle (day 1 lynch kitten, night one dog kills, GG)

[Sino]

If i understand it right, a dinosaur will die after using its ability, which will also make it impossible for the player to win.

I can't imagine a situation in which using the dinosaur ability would make you win the game.

[Gyrlander]

this seems more mechanical based cus its jsut gonna be a game of "who visted where" and then they jsut sit there trying to fiugre out the parings.

I would consider makign the enrgaed kitten to be immune just so the game cant end in one cycle (day 1 lynch kitten, night one dog kills, GG)

Given that 2 sections are possible and that for example kitten can claim that mouse is the actual kitten it has discussion in it. People can lie about who they saw.

Plus, town knows that they can't lynch the enraged kitten if the dog is alive or they lose so... they will need to hunt the dog! And... the enraged kitten knowing he's doomed.. he would help the dog to try to win?

I will make enraged kitten have an auto vest, but the dog won't be told if the player who visited was actually attacked because it was an enraged kitten or that it actually is a mouse.

[Gyrlander]

If i understand it right, a dinosaur will die after using its ability, which will also make it impossible for the player to win.

I can't imagine a situation in which using the dinosaur ability would make you win the game.

You convince town you're a mouse until you are 2v1. You use the assasination. You 1 v 1. Town can't win. Kittens can't win. Dog can't win. You win.

[Sino]

You convince town you're a mouse until you are 2v1. You use the assasination. You 1 v 1. Town can't win. Kittens can't win. Dog can't win. You win.

So you actually don't die from using the dinosaur's ability ?

Assasinate one person at day dying you with him.

You really need to clear that part up imo.

[Gyrlander]

So you actually don't die from using the dinosaur's ability ?



You really need to clear that part up imo.

Yeah, I'm crazy. I mean, you either confuse ppl until you are 1 v 1 and use the execution or you lose. DINOSAUR IS NOT A HAPPY ROLE. It is a punishment for having too many atributes.

[Sino]

Yeah, I'm crazy. I mean, you either confuse ppl until you are 1 v 1 and use the execution or you lose. DINOSAUR IS NOT A HAPPY ROLE. It is a punishment for having too many atributes.

Thanks for the perfect transition, my dear

Does the dinosaur keep the attributes ?

[Gyrlander]

Thanks for the perfect transition, my dear

Does the dinosaur keep the attributes ?

No.

[ika]

i would become a dinsoar for the lolz.

[ika]

Given that 2 sections are possible and that for example kitten can claim that mouse is the actual kitten it has discussion in it. People can lie about who they saw.

im not discounting discussion entirely, i just feel like its more mechanical play then real discussion. if I claim "oh X is cat cus feedback" and other person goes "no Y is cat cus feedback" it leads to a lot of potential 1v1s. Alos i can see the game being boilded down to "ok ABC goes to secions A and DEF goes to section B" and so on and so forth to make it that all feedback cant be lied about.

Plus, town knows that they can't lynch the enraged kitten if the dog is alive or they lose so... they will need to hunt the dog! And... the enraged kitten knowing he's doomed.. he would help the dog to try to win?

If i was enraged kitten i would kill the dog. worst case is that enraged kitten claims and gets leashed on who they visit

[ika]

if none of the pairs show up will nothing be said (ie mouse+mouse)

do kittens have nigh chat? if not how does it get decided who goes for the facitonal kill?

i think cats should eb able to mimic the mice abilites otherwise it can lead to confirmations of roles and lead to POE

[Gyrlander]

if none of the pairs show up will nothing be said (ie mouse+mouse)

do kittens have nigh chat? if not how does it get decided who goes for the facitonal kill?

i think cats should eb able to mimic the mice abilites otherwise it can lead to confirmations of roles and lead to POE

Pairs means no sound.

Kittens have a night chat. Added.

I agree that this may seem too town favored. I'm going to say that kittens also receive a random atribute with the milk.

[MattZed]

@Gyrlander , hoping to approve this for the next signups.

What happens if multiple people visit the same food?

Concern: Letting people choose to become dinosaurs, and thus alter their wincon, may become problematic for players who want to troll.

How are the house sections determined?

[Gyrlander]

@Gyrlander , hoping to approve this for the next signups.

What happens if multiple people visit the same food?

Concern: Letting people choose to become dinosaurs, and thus alter their wincon, may become problematic for players who want to troll.

How are the house sections determined?

1. If they are a role of the class that interacts with it they all gain the bonus. If not, nothing happens.

2. It is not an option, it occurs yes or yes the moment they gain the 3 attributes.

3. Em.. There are three slots A B and C.
@MattZed

[MattZed]

I am concerned that the mouse faction is overpowered at this point. It seems to me that clever use of the house mechanic, over a night or two, can let players rule people out as non-kittens rather quickly.
@Gyrlander

[Gyrlander]

I am concerned that the mouse faction is overpowered at this point. It seems to me that clever use of the house mechanic, over a night or two, can let players rule people out as non-kittens rather quickly.
@Gyrlander

I do agree. The thought that the house thing is too imbalanced was present but I tried to ignore it. Hm... do you suggest removing it completely or trying to change the setup a bit to make it somehow balanced?

[MattZed]

I do agree. The thought that the house thing is too imbalanced was present but I tried to ignore it. Hm... do you suggest removing it completely or trying to change the setup a bit to make it somehow balanced?

It's your setup, so if you really want it in, we can talk about ways to work around it. But I think you have a fairly solid setup otherwise, so I'd suggesting leaving it out.

[Gyrlander]

It's your setup, so if you really want it in, we can talk about ways to work around it. But I think you have a fairly solid setup otherwise, so I'd suggesting leaving it out.

Then what cheese gives needs to be changed (that's easy) but town won't have Investigative Night Actions to help them. They will only have scum hunting. What do you think?

[MattZed]

Then what cheese gives needs to be changed (that's easy) but town won't have Investigative Night Actions to help them. They will only have scum hunting. What do you think?

Hmm. Yeah, just scum hunting probably isn't enough. You could just make it a system where two people randomly get some form of TPR-like buff each night.

Unrelated suggestion: Let the dog go before cats in the OoO so it can win 1v1s more easily

[Gyrlander]

Hmm. Yeah, just scum hunting probably isn't enough. You could just make it a system where two people randomly get some form of TPR-like buff each night.

Unrelated suggestion: Let the dog go before cats in the OoO so it can win 1v1s more easily

Hum... One idea may be that mice that visit the cheese get a buff for 1/2 nights and they can be either Doctor Power - Detective/LO power.

Changed the OoO.

[MattZed]

Hum... One idea may be that mice that visit the cheese get a buff for 1/2 nights and they can be either Doctor Power - Detective/LO power.

Changed the OoO.

Hmm. Edit the setup with what you're thinking and let me see?

Approved for signups. I'm not going to let you start the game until we finish working out these details, but I'm confident they'll be resolved soon enough for the game to start.

[Gyrlander]

I just changed it. Deleted The House thing and changed Dinner is Served (both Milk and Cheese).

Thank you for the approval!

[MattZed]

Is the Dinosaur kill a suicide?

I think there's a phrasing issue on the "Stalker" power.

Does visiting a section count as a night action?

The Randomness of Meat seems a little odd; why not just let the dog get to check one person for free?

How many sections are there?

[Gyrlander]

Is the Dinosaur kill a suicide?

I think there's a phrasing issue on the "Stalker" power.

Does visiting a section count as a night action?

The Randomness of Meat seems a little odd; why not just let the dog get to check one person for free?

How many sections are there?

1. Yes, he kills him and his target. I can change it so that he can nuke one player and poisoning himself and a random player dying the following night. (This will be the only option for the Dinosaur to win (in a 2v1) )

2. Fixed.

3. We just deleted that mechanic (?)

4. Changed.

5. We just deleted that mechanic (?)

[Cryptonic]

Does someone get feedback if they attacked a immune player?
Dinosaur wincon is broken. You win if nobody wins except you, that's extremely redundant and vague.

You stated you deleted the mechanic, is this the "Section" mechanic? If so, then how do people find food?
How does someone become a Dinosaur? Or Sexy Kitten?

You need to clarify all this in your OP if you changed the setup completely. Or at least clarify the dinner part if it's not changed completely, because I don't understand how you choose a section, when you choose it, or anything about the special mechanic at all.
@Gyrlander

[Gyrlander]

Attackers get feedback if they attacked an inmune target.

About the dinosaur role, it is supposed to be a punishment/a troll thing if you MAGICALLY manage to get the cheese 3 times during the game (almost impossible) so we will not have one appearing very probably. I'm going to change his ability to the nuke thing and see what people think about it.

Okey, so it is true that Dinner is Served uses the sections (I forgot about that). Well, then there will be 3 sections and people visit one every night hoping to get their corresponded food. They will not have more use than that.

[Cryptonic]

Attackers get feedback if they attacked an inmune target.

About the dinosaur role, it is supposed to be a punishment/a troll thing if you MAGICALLY manage to get the cheese 3 times during the game (almost impossible) so we will not have one appearing very probably. I'm going to change his ability to the nuke thing and see what people think about it.

Okey, so it is true that Dinner is Served uses the sections (I forgot about that). Well, then there will be 3 sections and people visit one every night hoping to get their corresponded food. They will not have more use than that.

OK, thanks, that makes more sense

[Cryptonic]

You also state a person HAS to visit one, what if they don't submit a choice?

[Gyrlander]

You also state a person HAS to visit one, what if they don't submit a choice?

Inactivity: Warn/Replace/Modkill

[MattZed]

How does Dino poison work?

[Gyrlander]

How does Dino poison work?

When it is used the dinosaur and one more player get poisoned. They die at the start of the next day.

[Gyrlander]

I always forget to do the cool mention @MattZed

[Orpz]

"Kitten: Visit one player each night either you or the other kitten."

What did you mean by this?
Does this mean only one kitten gets to visit per night? How is this decided?

[Gyrlander]

"Kitten: Visit one player each night either you or the other kitten."

What did you mean by this?
Does this mean only one kitten gets to visit per night? How is this decided?

It basically means they share a factional kill.

[Orpz]

It basically means they share a factional kill.

Okay, that's what I was thinking. This leads into my main concern of organization. I think you should restructure the original post better so the flow of information is more favored towards the most urgent. For example, you should have Win Conditions somewhere in the later sections, while Rolecards and Special mechanics should be moved up.

Also Sexy Kitten and the Upgraded Mice should be in the rolecards.

If the Dog kills both kittens and there are no dinosaurs, does the game end immediately? If so, it could pose a problem as it forces Town to have to kill the Dog first.

[Gyrlander]

Okay, that's what I was thinking. This leads into my main concern of organization. I think you should restructure the original post better so the flow of information is more favored towards the most urgent. For example, you should have Win Conditions somewhere in the later sections, while Rolecards and Special mechanics should be moved up.

Also Sexy Kitten and the Upgraded Mice should be in the rolecards.

If the Dog kills both kittens and there are no dinosaurs, does the game end immediately? If so, it could pose a problem as it forces Town to have to kill the Dog first.

Okey, I'll try to organise it better

I'll add them as upgrades for rolecards.

About the dog thing, it is supposed that when he kills both Kittens he becomes unstopabble as Mice are too weak to try to fight him. I guess I could change it/add another interesting thing in case that both Kittens die and there are 2 or more mice alive.

[Gyrlander]

@Orpz

@MattZed

I need someone to approve this to start.

[Kovath]

@Orpz

@MattZed

I need someone to approve this to start.

Not until you renounce your heresy and join the Order of Charmander

[Gyrlander]

Not until you renounce your heresy and join the Order of Charmander

*IGNORED*

Emm... yeah, where were we?

[BananaCucho]

Why did you post sign ups before approval?

[Quick]

Why did you post sign ups before approval?

@MattZed Technically approved the setup, but said it shouldn't go to signups until all the kinks were worked out. Good ol' Gyrl posted signup anyways.

[Gyrlander]

Hmm. Edit the setup with what you're thinking and let me see?

Approved for signups. I'm not going to let you start the game until we finish working out these details, but I'm confident they'll be resolved soon enough for the game to start.

I don't see where you guys read that I shouldn't make signups. What I really see is he recommending me to start signups but not start until he approves this to start getting ppl

[MattZed]

@Gyrlander , you may start.

Final note: please clarify how Dinosaur poison works on their rolecard.