Role: Witness Protector

[Fragos]

On the behalf of the Creative Masterminds, I present to you yet another creative role! This time it's a town-aligned role, which is usually rarely comes from suggesstions in those days!

Role name: Witness Protector
Description: An agent of the witness protection program, which goal is to protect witnesses by giving then new idenitity.
Alignment: Town/Advanced
Abilities: During a day, you can type "-protect player". That player will receive a message that a Witness Protector just asked him to join the protection program.
Special: If your target agrees to receive a protection, then once day is over, Witness Protector will receive his target's name and his target will receive Witness Protector's name - they will switch identities. Later in the game Withess Protector can also do the reverse - giving himself and his target original idenitites back, on the similar day requests. After getting his original identity back, Witness Protector may pick up a different target. Which means he cannot switch identities with someone if he doesn't have his own original name.
Goal: Help the town to win.


The primary purpose of Witness Protector is to protect identities or proved town roles, such as Sheriff, Jailor or Doctor. By risking his own life, he can switch names with power town player, which can allow that player to remain hidden even after he revealed himself already. The identity switch occurs before most night actions, so that Witness Protector can confuse Mafia. The downside of such protection is that everyone can be a vaild target for witness protection - including Mafia and other scum! And of course, whoever was switched will know who the Witness Protector is. Another thing: before any name switch happens, Witness Protector must hide his own identity from anyone else, no matter what. Otherwise the next person to die will be most likely the one with Witness Protector's original name.
Keep one thing in mind: The request from Witness Protector is anonymous, so you won't be able to find out who he is until you actually switch identities with him.

So? Care to accept the witness protection offer? Would you like to trade identities with someone else?



Also, as a matter of fact, I may "switch identities" with one of the members of the Creative Masterminds. Which means anything he posts will be actually MY post, and anything I post from now on will be THAT person's actual post. In a duration of 3 days, we could essentialy switch each other (through sending, receving and copy-pasting private messages from each other). Of course this DOES NOT affect our postings inside Forum Mafia. So, try to find me among one of the Creative Masterminds now! Good luck.

[Ubernox]

It's like a weird, town-aligned cross between a bus driver and a disguiser.... kinda cool, I guess.

[wolfcheese]

This is pretty interesting. My first impression was "This is just like the bus driver." But it actually could be a more thoughtful and less chaotic version of one.

What happens when he swaps with someone with night chat like mafia? Does the team still get to chat with their man, seeing his swapped name for that night? That would bring some interesting risk to the protector (much better than if the protector got to chat with the team he swapped into, and find out who they all are).

Another question: does the protection last into the day, or does it end when night ends?

I like the sound of this.

[ReauxTzunami]

This is pretty interesting. My first impression was "This is just like the bus driver." But it actually could be a more thoughtful and less chaotic version of one.

What happens when he swaps with someone with night chat like mafia? Does the team still get to chat with their man, seeing his swapped name for that night? That would bring some interesting risk to the protector (much better than if the protector got to chat with the team he swapped into, and find out who they all are).

Another question: does the protection last into the day, or does it end when night ends?

I like the sound of this.

The way I see it:

If WP switches his name with someone else, it's pretty much the disg's role without killing someone. Of course, at the same time though, being town aligned means that managing a win is almost as risky as a well played spy that doesn't reveal until he's dead. If the name switch stays, the player protected would be forced to not reveal any action done until the name switch is changed back. Mafia could profit from having their own protected, especially if he ends up protecting GF and gets found the first day, though, if the protected names are changed permanently it could really confused all players in the end. I'm sure it's a very awkward role with many situations, but I'm all for it.

[Lysergic]

I think this role sounds really interesting. I was just thinking yesterday that I would love to have a role that allowed a revealed sheriff or doc to hide (especially when a troll/noob invest reveals a doctor).

[Luna]

Fragos is amazing. He is a totally awesome dude.

Raichu is kickass.

This role is a really good idea.

[Ubernox]

But is he a bro?

[TheJackofSpades]

This role does not fulfill it's purpose. You've made a major logical error in the creation of this role, and once you see it you'll probably be able to unravel the issue yourself but I'll explain it you anyway.

There is a huge difference between swapping names, and swapping identities. I've noticed you implemented a "fix" to this on your own, but it also makes this role painfully overpowered, so it is in my opinion a non-workable solution.

When two players swap names, they themselves do not change. Any actions directed at them are unaffected, because all they have done is traded labels. To simplify this to it's basest form, it'd be like asking someone to pick up a glass jar of stones labeled "Stones" and on the same shelf there's a glass jar filled with sand labeled "Sand". But before they get there to retrieve the jar, someone switches the labels. Which one would the person pick up? The jar of stones labeled "Sand". It doesn't matter what the label says, it's a jar of stones.

Swapping identities is a great deal more complicated. Everything about you changes, you physically fool the person who comes to visit the person you are swapping identities with. So in this circumstance, actions would be redirected to whoever you swapped identities with, much like a bus driver swap. The problem, however, is how painfully short term this is. You die when you swap identities, so you've offered them one night of protection. Or if they were protected, you only serve to severely confuse the town as now an entirely seperate person is claiming the same power role as the proven town power role from yesterday. Not to mention the beurocratic nightmare that would be town protection roles speaking up in outrage when someone they didn't heal is claiming to have been healed(as you have swapped names, you'll note). And ontop of all that, your role was pretty much completely pointless in the whole ordeal because the power role will have to surface again and it will make trust vastly more difficult to manage and communication will likely break down in the favor of the mafia.

Now note, this all is considering that this swap occurs at night, and this is plausibly the only way I could see this role being balanced. There is no skill involved with swapping identities during the day(or as close to as during the day as technically possible while the actual swapping still occuring during technical night), as there is no way of analyzing if your target has been swapped or not and thus is basically in the god-tier of town "support" roles. There is absolutely no downside to this form of protection in the hands of someone highly capable, it offers a fool-proof form of double-layered protection(that is more or less unseen in any other role) because you yourself will be protecting the power role ontop of the protection roles protecting you. THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.

I am a strong believer that FM roles should be balanced around pristine play, and in it's current form this role is simply too powerful of a protection role AS WELL as creating huge holes in how the game itself is played(this may not make sense, but just trust me on this. Something can be overpowered while still offering huge detriments to it's faction i.e. the day start jailor). In my opinion before this role could ever be implemented into a game, it needs to be seriously revised.

[jaczac]

ah... can u make a TL/DR?

[Ganondorf]

Fragos is amazing. He is a totally awesome dude.

Raichu is kickass.

This role is a really good idea.

Magikarp > Raichu: Your argument is invalid

[jaczac]

YAy USELESs POKEMON GOGOGO!

[TheJackofSpades]

ah... can u make a TL/DR?

No Fragos, I cannot. Either take the same amount of effort I took writing what I did to read it, or give up. I don't care.

[Fragos]

Oh yeah, forgot to add the important part - it IS indeed identity switch rather name switch. And the identity switch can last as long as Witness Protector wants, and he can also choose to reverse the process. So, the role description is now correctly updated.

Also, to avoid confusion, if nessesary, swapped people should openly say to town that they swapped identities - both WP and his target. Or WP can openly say that he is talking instead of a person who talked the day before. Unless WP's target was scum, it should solve any possible confusion. And if WP under guise of another person thinks that he might die, then he should also write in his last will that he swapped himself with that person - without revealing his original alias. Of course a person may refuse WP's offer, if they think that this might hurt town's progress.

And yes, I do not have any actual guise yet. So ignore for now what Jaczac said.

[Luna]

Magikarp > Raichu: Your argument is invalid

I agree, although Machop is clearly the king of pokemon. I also don't accept any pokemon outside the original 151 (I include Mew solely because having Mewtwo without Mew is craazyyyyy, the the first film is the only film I recognise).

Just tried to WIFOM a bit in an attempt to make you think Fragos was talking through me - which he has nullified with his post, inconceivable! (You'd think with the amount of times WIFOM is mentioned more people would quote the film?)

[Lysergic]

I agree, although Machop is clearly the king of pokemon. I also don't accept any pokemon outside the original 151 (I include Mew solely because having Mewtwo without Mew is craazyyyyy, the the first film is the only film I recognise).

Level. One-Hundred. Abra.

[Ash]

Pikachu owns all

[Yayap]

Also, to avoid confusion, if nessesary, swapped people should openly say to town that they swapped identities - both WP and his target. Or WP can openly say that he is talking instead of a person who talked the day before.

Scum 1: I want to kill sheriff, but he is in Witness Protection program
Scum 2: Lucky for they told us who the WP is so we can target him instead.

I fail to see what benefits this role would bring.

[Fragos]

Scum 1: I want to kill sheriff, but he is in Witness Protection program
Scum 2: Lucky for they told us who the WP is so we can target him instead.

I fail to see what benefits this role would bring.

In ideal scenario, mafia shouldn't know about witness protection switch. They try to kill "sheriff", but he turns out to be Witness Protector instead. In the meantime, the sheriff finds out another Mafia and reveals himself for the second time to make town win. If they suspect that there is WP switch, they should force players to reveal roles or force the "sheriff" to give his next investigation report to the town. But then again, such action would give then unwanted attention. This works even better if Witness Protector cooperates with Jailor or Escort. If the Doctor is still alive then you should'n worry about your death if you think that your target might also be healed.

Also, I would like to present for you another interesting tactic for Witness Protector.

Say, you suspect a person for being a scum and want to force the town to lynch him. Here is what you do as Witness Protector:
You voluntarily make yourself suspicious and attract some attention to the town. Then you target the potential scum role and ask him to join "the protection program". The trick here is to make him accept your offer without realizing your true intentions. If he accepts, then you will switch identities with "scum" on the next night. By the next day, he should throughly investigated by town roles, which can be followed by lynch. Why lynch? Because "he" acted suspicous on the last day! If he tries to say that identities were switched then you can simply deny being Witness Protector and the town lynches him anyway.
Cheesy tactic, not sure if it's going to work yet. Like bad Jailors and bad Mayors, there could be also bad Witness Protectors

[Yayap]

A mods nightmare for all the game throwing complaints that would result from this when the WP gets his target wrong. A nightmare I'd like a avoid.

[Fragos]

Well, Mafia IS he game, when you sometime experience "nightmares". This can't be avoided in SC2, but here on forums it is more controllable.

[Celt]

No Fragos, I cannot. Either take the same amount of effort I took writing what I did to read it, or give up. I don't care.

100% Agreed.

[RandomNumbers0]

I like it, but the person who has it is suicidal...

[Yayap]

but the person who has it is suicidal...

Don't give me any ideas...

[TheJackofSpades]

Oh yeah, forgot to add the important part - it IS indeed identity switch rather name switch. And the identity switch can last as long as Witness Protector wants, and he can also choose to reverse the process. So, the role description is now correctly updated.

There are no words to express my disappointment for this response. As such, I will oppose this role until the end of time.

Why? Because if you had any idea of what you were doing you'd realize if they swap identities at the end of day it is NO DIFFERENT than if they had just swapped names.

You sidestepped my entire post while still being wrong.

[Lazers]

not wholly original or unexplored, but i do support the basic idea of name swapping

+1

[Lysergic]

I like it, but the person who has it is suicidal...

No more suicidal than a Bodyguard who intentionally puts himself in harms way to save a confirmed townie.