Role Options, Game Options, Point Purchases, New Role: Psychiatrist, and more!

[Lagoonos]

New town role: Psychiatrist. Similar to Auditor, converting neutrals into scumbag or mafia/triad into mafioso/enforcer. If used on a jailed target, that target becomes a citizen. Does nothing to town roles. Visiting a scumbag/mafioso/enforcer turns them into a citizen.
Coroner moved to town power/investigative and can also bring 1-2 players back from the dead. Limited to 1 coroner per town. In addition, detective, investigator, and sheriff collect fingerprints for coroner to use, which allows coroner to detect roles that are immune to detection if they visited the target. If someone is framed when another person is killed and coroner checks this person, coroner will show up with evidence against the framed person.
Bus driver moved to town protective exclusively, escort move to town power, veteran removed from town power. Crier is government/power.
Detective and lookout merged into the same role with different options.
Game Setup Option for players to see who attacked you at night if you're healed by doctor or night immune, or protected by bodyguard where bodyguard doesn't kill target. Doesn't work if incense master or janitor are present.
Game Setup option where, after day 6, certain roles become superpowered. Limited use ability roles gain one more use. Ignore detection, ignore immunity, etc.
Game setup option - plague - random person dies of the plague every morning. Being plagued and visiting someone or being visiting has a chance of infection.
Game option where players are imprisoned instead of lynched. Jailor may release or execute some of the prisoners.
Game option to remove chat log
Game option for automated last wills.
Game option where only coroner can see last wills, or how someone died.
Game option where night immunity doesn't work if the target is attacked two nights in row (even if healed or protected by BG)
Scumbag has 1 bulletproof vest
Jester annoy counts as role block
Cult with immunity prevents conversion off can convert mafia/triad except GF/Dragon Head
Arson will not get killed if ignition kills victims targets and ignition always kills if arson is night immune. Arson must be doused or not night immune for hoist by his own molotov achievement.
Auditor options include: neutral roles become citizen when audited, neutral roles become scumbag when audited, neutral roles become jester when audited
Role option for unlimited Auditor conversions
Role Option to make Bus Driver, Witch, and Deceiver/Beguiler immune to Veteran/MM.
Role Option for Vigilante can become sheriff instead when out of shots. Marshall becomes vigilante when out of lynchings. Mayor can promote or demote a marshall/vigilante/sheriff. Depending on game option, Mayor can turn executioner into vigilante or judge. Mayor can also make a vigilante into a jailor, a citizen into a nurse or deputy or assistant (x).
Role Option to give citizen up to 3 bulletproof vests, and another to give citizen 2 votes, and another option for citizen to call an election at night for a mayor the next day.
Role option for mayor to have 1 bulletproof vest.
Role Options to allow Sheriff, Doctor, Witch Doctor, Investigator, Lookout, Detective, Administrator/Consigliere, and/or Vanguard/Agent and/or Arsonist, to target 2 players at night instead of just one.
Role options to make marshall, veteran, vigilante, and jailor become citizens when they have used up their ability.
Role option to allow spy see PMs (just like crier can confirm by saying who they are at night). Game option to allow spy to see cult/mason night chat. Limited 1 spy per town from randoms.
Role option to give veteran up to 5 alerts. Option for veteran to visit other people at night, only killing visitors (thus may visit mayor/marshall safely)
Role option to allow amnesiac become unique roles such as auditor, witch doctor, or judge. Amnesiac can become mafia/triad as undercover cop, where they are last to become mafioso/enforcer but win with town.
Role option for judge to -target # displayed for mafia/triad and neutrals. Spy and Crier can see this.
Role option to allow sheriff to detect neutral alignment. Another where if sheriff visits a citizen, that citizen is made deputy and becomes sheriff if the sheriff dies. Another where sheriff will shoot it out with their attacker if they investigate the person that attacks them the same night. Role option for sheriff to have one bulletproof vest.
Role option to allow doctor to make a citizen a nurse, making the nurse a doctor if the doctor dies. Role option for roles to be incapacitated for 1 day after being saved by doctor (or night immune roles to attack again)
Role Option for jailor to use their ability every other night even if there is a lynching.
Role Option for Jester/Executioner to be made immune to detection
Role option for Survivor has up to 5 bulletproof vests, and an option to hide behind players when out of vests.
Role Option to make witch doctor night immune. Another option to make witch doctor bring another player back to life as cult.
Role Option to allow culted roles to retain their abilities if any
Role Option to allow masons to recruit any town role and they retain their abilities
Role Option to allow masons to recruit neutral benign roles
Role Option to allow neutral killings to win with cult
Role option for framer/ to edit last will if last will automated is turned on
Role option for Consigliere/Administrator to recruit citizens/scumbags into mafia if discovered, as enforcer/mafioso or as a mafia/triad random. If Godfather/Dragon Head aren't kill capable, they recruit instead.
Role option to allow informant/disguiser or interrogator/kidnapper use their kill twice. (1-2 nights between use). Role option for informant/disguiser to choose a target being attacked by godfather/dragon head/mafioso/enforcer and disguise as them instead of having their own killing ability.
Role option to give deceiver/beguiler unlimited hidings

Expand maximum players to 18
Game option for spectators/observers to enter the game as citizens after night 5.
Players lose -1 points for killing or voting guilty on an ally (including neutrals)
Give doctors extra points for saving players and investigative roles for lynching a player they've found to be evil.
Give culted town half the points they would've gained if they were still town if town wins.
Neutral evils get a quarter of the points they would've gained if they won, if town loses and the neutral evil died.
Executioner with "must survive until end" turned on get double points for surviving and half points for dying.
Amnesiac receives half points if they don't choose a role to remember.
Players can earn achievements twice. Receive 5 times fewer points after the first time.
Host can rename roles for their variant of a save.


Points can be used to purchase certain items that enhance a role. Such as an unlock where investigator can detect sheriffs exact role or a cheap, early unlock that makes serial killers night immune. Host may make a game mode ignoring these under game options. Unlocks are necessary for certain roles to even become available; new players can only play as citizen, doctor, sheriff, or godfather/mafioso.
Points also purchase models, hats, being able to create a save, save options, coloured names, blacklisting roles, prefering roles.

[SuperJack]

What

[SuperJack]

[Lagoonos]

If you need me to clarify something, then say so.

[Funce]

Okay, Don't like Psychiatrist.
Rule of thumb. Once people are dead, they're dead. Coroner changes seem okay for the ones about self but I don't think the interactions with fingerprints will work.
Random changes. Nothing wrong with that.
Detective and Lookout Merged. I would like it, but from balance, I don't think it would work.
See who attacked you. Useful, interesting. Would need tweaks but essential concept is good
Superpowers? No
Plague, Would be an interesting twist.
Imprisonment forces the jailor into too much of a powerful role for me.
Thats a lot to read and write about..


Only thing really bugging me, no point unlocks pleeease. It's not nice thinking that pros have prefer. But then NOT being able to get it because points.
Don't like it.

[SuperJack]

If you need me to clarify something, then say so.

Honestly, if you are really suggesting these some thought and reasoning to why they should be added/changed/whatnot.
It just looks like a list. Is that the purpose?

[Lagoonos]

By superpowers I mean like investigator detecting exact role or veteran ignoring invulnerability, stuff like that. Becoming more powerful over time.

I also don't think that it makes jailor any more powerful than a mayor or marshall who has revealed, or when people PM their roles to a confirmed crier or veteran.

The main purpose is providing a couple of ideas. This post would be a lot longer explaining why. The short version of why is that it gives the game more options and therefore more variety for the hosts. As someone who makes custom saves very frequently, these would be very nice to have to create more fun, interesting and dynamic games.

[SuperJack]

By superpowers I mean like investigator detecting exact role or veteran ignoring invulnerability, stuff like that. Becoming more powerful over time.

The main purpose is providing a couple of ideas. This post would be a lot longer explaining why. The short version of why is that it gives the game more options and therefore more variety for the hosts.

When suggesting things to the game you have to think:

Is is possible? (Game Limit is set to 15 atm. (16 but we need AI to run the game)
Is it balanced? (A lot of your suggestions seem to literary make some town roles greatly overpowered)
Is it Mafia? (We strive for the game to be discussion based more than night action based)
Is there a real purpose for the suggestion?
Will people enjoy it?

I do like the fact you have tried to suggest many things.

[Lagoonos]

Possible...I was unaware of the limit being set to 15. I'm also unaware if the new expansion coming out in 6 days will increase the cap.

Balanced...I'd say none of my suggestions are any more overpowered than veteran with unlimited alerts, vigi with unlimited shots, marshall with 2 groups of 4 executions, healable mayor, healable bodyguard, or night and detection immune mm that can spree every night. I'd say it's up to the host to use these options to make a balanced game.

Yes, it is mafia. In fact, some of these suggestions were directly inspired (or copied from) the actual real-life game of mafia. Moreover, it adds new layers of discussions to be had.

The real purpose is creating more content for the game to keep it fresh and interesting.

I would strongly assert that a great many people would enjoy it, and even if they don't, they don't need to use these options.

[Stealthbomber16]

Possible...I was unaware of the limit being set to 15. I'm also unaware if the new expansion coming out in 6 days will increase the cap.

Balanced...I'd say none of my suggestions are any more overpowered than veteran with unlimited alerts, vigi with unlimited shots, marshall with 2 groups of 4 executions, healable mayor, healable bodyguard, or night and detection immune mm that can spree every night. I'd say it's up to the host to use these options to make a balanced game.

Yes, it is mafia. In fact, some of these suggestions were directly inspired (or copied from) the actual real-life game of mafia. Moreover, it adds new layers of discussions to be had.

The real purpose is creating more content for the game to keep it fresh and interesting.

I would strongly assert that a great many people would enjoy it, and even if they don't, they don't need to use these options.

With this standpoint I would like to direct you to the simple forum mafia setup workshop.

[SuperJack]

Possible...I was unaware of the limit being set to 15. I'm also unaware if the new expansion coming out in 6 days will increase the cap.

Balanced...I'd say none of my suggestions are any more overpowered than veteran with unlimited alerts, vigi with unlimited shots, marshall with 2 groups of 4 executions, healable mayor, healable bodyguard, or night and detection immune mm that can spree every night. I'd say it's up to the host to use these options to make a balanced game.

Yes, it is mafia. In fact, some of these suggestions were directly inspired (or copied from) the actual real-life game of mafia. Moreover, it adds new layers of discussions to be had.

The real purpose is creating more content for the game to keep it fresh and interesting.

I would strongly assert that a great many people would enjoy it, and even if they don't, they don't need to use these options.

Sometime we include multiple options, yet certain selections make them OP. when that was not the original intention.
Veteran has Unlimited Alerts, but this is never selected in most game. (Only games I've seen are troll games) And when it is, its advised that it dosn't always kill. And it can hit town and be counter-town
Vigi does not have Unlimited shot. And they make mistakes.
Marshall was not supposed to be 4/2. Most games will not have that setup apart from troll games.
It was intened the 4 lynch one use, or 3/2 / 2/2 be used.
Mayor can be healed (Yet again, this is mostly off. Or if it is on, PM is off)

What I'm getting at is, yes there are ways to make the Roles OP. But most players will not do this because it makes a bad game.

A couple of things that always get a no:
Roles that are only created to directly counter another role
Roles that bring back the dead
Roles that talk to the dead
Random-Based roles or random events.




Honestly. Your suggestions can be of use in certain scenarios, but the Sc2Mafia mod is not designed to work in them ways. Sc2mafia, Even though it doesn't look it, is basic. And generally designed to have it played with ease.
But, I can understand what you are getting at: More Customizability and Variation.

May I suggest Forum Mafia?
We use Forum Mafia to play more complicated, or fun, or themed games. With more interesting mechanics.

[Lagoonos]

I'm not sure I have the patience to play forum mafia. I'm not sure it's as gratifying as SC2 mafia. Just doesn't have the same visceral appeal.

I'd say any perceived OPness can be mitigated by a host making a good save, in the same way you just pointed out.

A great many of these suggestions are simplistic in nature, operating on the same level as rules already in the game. I'd just like them to be put under consideration for the future. Just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. Hoping some of it. If there's a great modder that's going to be chosen for mafia 2.0, I'm sure they could take the time to implement some of the more complicated suggestions if it appealed to them to do so.

[DarknessB]

I'm not sure I have the patience to play forum mafia. I'm not sure it's as gratifying as SC2 mafia. Just doesn't have the same visceral appeal.

I'd say any perceived OPness can be mitigated by a host making a good save, in the same way you just pointed out.

A great many of these suggestions are simplistic in nature, operating on the same level as rules already in the game. I'd just like them to be put under consideration for the future. Just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. Hoping some of it. If there's a great modder that's going to be chosen for mafia 2.0, I'm sure they could take the time to implement some of the more complicated suggestions if it appealed to them to do so.

I thought the same thing re: Forum Mafia before I started. Give it a shot and try to get to know the community -- I imagine you'll have fun. At the very least, you can get more invested in an individual game vs. blasting through it in SC2Mafia where a lot of the players may vote people up out of boredom / to troll.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I have to admit...this should be for forum mafia game......i already predict the disaster if there is a change....in that list if it use on starcraft...

[DarknessB]

I have to admit...this should be for forum mafia game......i already predict the disaster if there is a change....in that list if it use on starcraft...

Yeah... the SC2 mod just isn't equipped for radical changes like this. Given the speed of games and little time that players have to review rules as they attempt to figure out what's going on, this role would be kind of a disaster, lol. Much better for Forum Mafia where people have time to parse through the setup at a more deliberate pace.

[Elixir]

This is a massive list of stuff. Seeing as you went to the time of writing it out, I guess I'll go through each point for you.

New town role: Psychiatrist. Similar to Auditor, converting neutrals into scumbag or mafia/triad into mafioso/enforcer. If used on a jailed target, that target becomes a citizen. Does nothing to town roles. Visiting a scumbag/mafioso/enforcer turns them into a citizen.

The last point wont happen, going from mafia to town literally breaks the game in half
If the role gets feedback it becomes a broken investigative role that can faction confirm, so it wouldnt get feedback if it succeded or not
Immunity at night would prevent this.
The role itself isn't bad however

Coroner moved to town power/investigative and can also bring 1-2 players back from the dead. Limited to 1 coroner per town. In addition, detective, investigator, and sheriff collect fingerprints for coroner to use, which allows coroner to detect roles that are immune to detection if they visited the target. If someone is framed when another person is killed and coroner checks this person, coroner will show up with evidence against the framed person.

This isn't town of salem. The 1 main design point we hammer home in the loading screen is "Death is permanent, trust only yourself" - No Dead Chat Interatinos. No Revivals Period
Coroner is already a spasticly powerful role in the right hands. I dont really think it needs much more to be honest. I dont mind there being high skill cap roles... though the only area I'd be interested in exploring is framer countering -- but since the investigator update to crimes the framer has been underperforming anyway... I'd rather buff the framer tbh.

Bus driver moved to town protective exclusively, escort move to town power, veteran removed from town power. Crier is government/power.

I dont like any of these changes.
1) Bus Driver is a power role, it can affect every single other player in the game without counter (aside from block). Moreover it affects TWO PLAYERS every night. Its staying where it is.
2) Escort on the other hand is NOT a power role. It can be stopped by block immunity and by counter block (Serial Killer murders blocker)
3) Veteran, like bus driver, can become immortal and pierce immunity on command. Power role.
4) Crier is an interesting one because it can self confirm. It is currently limited to 1 so I dont think moving it into other categories is really needed. But it would fit in power if certain setups needed it.
Crier is government for a reason -- It needs to be limited to 1 as it can literally self confirm. Self confirmation is more or less what the government catalogue is about.

Detective and lookout merged into the same role with different options.

Not town of salem, they do polar opposite things and its fine that the town gets strictly worse roles than their mafia counterparts with some things. They're already powerful enough with ignore immunity.

Game Setup Option for players to see who attacked you at night if you're healed by doctor or night immune, or protected by bodyguard where bodyguard doesn't kill target. Doesn't work if incense master or janitor are present.

No. Non investigative roles dont need this kind of information.

Game Setup option where, after day 6, certain roles become superpowered. Limited use ability roles gain one more use. Ignore detection, ignore immunity, etc.

Most games are over by this point anyway... I dont think the editor will allow an option trigger check like this anyway but it adds little to the game aside from swinging tiebreakers? -- I mean the add one more use thing is easy enough and thats the only possible one that I could see making sense.

Game setup option - plague - random person dies of the plague every morning. Being plagued and visiting someone or being visiting has a chance of infection.

What?

Game option where players are imprisoned instead of lynched. Jailor may release or execute some of the prisoners.

This requires a complete rewrite of how the lynch system works, requires a jailor to spawn, puts ALL the town power in the jailors hands and actually weakens the town as their power comes from the lynch. Seems counter intuitive.

Game option to remove chat log

I can see why you'd want this as it forces people to remember claims and allows for easier counter claiming. This as an option is something I think could pass.

Game option for automated last wills.

We cant automate that. Its up to the player as to what they put in there. Its not the games job to record their feedback.

Game option where only coroner can see last wills, or how someone died.

This already exists. It's called Clue variant unless it was removed.

Game option where night immunity doesn't work if the target is attacked two nights in row (even if healed or protected by BG)

Undermines the entire point of immunity.

Scumbag has 1 bulletproof vest

This seems fine.

Jester annoy counts as role block

Jesters annoy is only meant to put them at a scene of a crime for detective purposes. I dont think they need a power.

Cult with immunity prevents conversion off can convert mafia/triad except GF/Dragon Head

We actually tried this and it broke the team system so we had to remove it in development.

Auditor options include: neutral roles become citizen when audited, neutral roles become scumbag when audited, neutral roles become jester when audited

Everything seems fine but the first one... I'm just worried again because going from neut->town could break cult games in half although currently there is no major stop to cult aside from masons. The auditor is an evil role however and it wants to see the town lose, I dont think it wants to be reinforcing the towns numbers.

Role option for unlimited Auditor conversions

Its already powerful enough I think... but Im not 100% opposed to changes that give more setup options within reason.

Role Option to make Bus Driver, Witch, and Deceiver/Beguiler immune to Veteran/MM.

The code behind this is fucked enough as it is. Changing it anymore could break all kinds of things.

Role Option for Vigilante can become sheriff instead when out of shots. Marshall becomes vigilante when out of lynchings. Mayor can promote or demote a marshall/vigilante/sheriff.

Mayor and Marshall are fine as they are. The vigilante one isn't too bad but we already have plans for vigilantes.

Depending on game option, Mayor can turn executioner into vigilante or judge. Mayor can also make a vigilante into a jailor, a citizen into a nurse or deputy or assistant (x).

Mayor is fine. I like the idea of executioner changing into something else though... That could be interesting to explore.

Role Option to give citizen up to 3 bulletproof vests, and another to give citizen 2 votes, and another option for citizen to call an election at night for a mayor the next day.

Citizens are working as intended.

Role option for mayor to have 1 bulletproof vest.

Mayor is fine.

Role Options to allow Sheriff, Doctor, Witch Doctor, Investigator, Lookout, Detective, Administrator/Consigliere, and/or Vanguard/Agent and/or Arsonist, to target 2 players at night instead of just one.

We dont have that much option space. I think theoretically it is possible but I don't think the game would benefit - and it'd also break bus drivers and witches.

Role options to make marshall, veteran, vigilante, and jailor become citizens when they have used up their ability.

This is actually decent. I like it.

Role option to allow spy see PMs (just like crier can confirm by saying who they are at night). Game option to allow spy to see cult/mason night chat. Limited 1 spy per town from randoms.

This was in the game for the longest time and really fucked the meta up. We removed it and its not going back in.
Spy already has an option to see the cult/mason chats I'm pretty sure.

Role option to give veteran up to 5 alerts. Option for veteran to visit other people at night, only killing visitors (thus may visit mayor/marshall safely)

Veteran has already been reworked like twice. I think its in a good spot right now and I dont think it needs more power.

Role option for judge to -target # displayed for mafia/triad and neutrals. Spy and Crier can see this.

You mean at night? Eh... It's sorta interesting but really I think it should be up to the judge when its the right time to pseudo-reveal at night but in doing so puts himself at risk. A target command would be such a riskless way of doing things even with spy/crier because they're not always going to be there.

Role option to allow sheriff to detect neutral alignment. Another where if sheriff visits a citizen, that citizen is made deputy and becomes sheriff if the sheriff dies. Another where sheriff will shoot it out with their attacker if they investigate the person that attacks them the same night. Role option for sheriff to have one bulletproof vest.

None of these really add to the sheriff in a balanced way and I dont see a reason for it to be linked to citizen, they're fine as is.

Role option to allow doctor to make a citizen a nurse, making the nurse a doctor if the doctor dies. Role option for roles to be incapacitated for 1 day after being saved by doctor (or night immune roles to attack again)

Citizens are working as intended.

Role Option for jailor to use their ability every other night even if there is a lynching.

This increases the town KPN too much. We tried it and it was really busted. Even now with interro/kidnapper I dont want to risk putting this back in because it will become the standard option.

Role Option for Jester/Executioner to be made immune to detection

But jester wants to be detected lol.

Role Option to make witch doctor night immune. Another option to make witch doctor bring another player back to life as cult.

Immunity maybe,
Dead interaction, No.

Role Option to allow culted roles to retain their abilities if any

I wanted it like this originally but it is extremely difficult to code. At the end of the day, Rev made an executive decision and I stand by it.

Role Option to allow masons to recruit any town role and they retain their abilities

Role Option to allow masons to recruit neutral benign roles
Role Option to allow neutral killings to win with cult[/quote]

We have plans to expand how masons/cultists work.

Role option for framer/ to edit last will if last will automated is turned on

I dont like automated last will, but I do like framers maybe having a charged system to just edit a will. Maybe... Possibly... With more thought

Role option for Consigliere/Administrator to recruit citizens/scumbags into mafia if discovered, as enforcer/mafioso or as a mafia/triad random. If Godfather/Dragon Head aren't kill capable, they recruit instead.

I think there may be an avenue for scumbag recuitment to mafioso. Possibly citizen, I dunno. The mafia even getting 1 more person is huge because they can dictate a vote really easy... Its very dangerous water.

Role option to allow informant/disguiser or interrogator/kidnapper use their kill twice. (1-2 nights between use). Role option for informant/disguiser to choose a target being attacked by godfather/dragon head/mafioso/enforcer and disguise as them instead of having their own killing ability.

The ability to have multiple kills per night is massive to the mafia. Doing this more than once can really swing the balance hard.

Role option to give deceiver/beguiler unlimited hidings

How do you stop them then?

Expand maximum players to 18

Cant be done in Sc2 from what I understand.

Game option for spectators/observers to enter the game as citizens after night 5.

Cant code it

Players lose -1 points for killing or voting guilty on an ally (including neutrals)

Nope. Not putting the point system into play as it'll change how people think and vote.

Give doctors extra points for saving players and investigative roles for lynching a player they've found to be evil.

This sorta already happens a little bit.

Give culted town half the points they would've gained if they were still town if town wins.

Nope. Puts an incentive for culted town to throw.

Neutral evils get a quarter of the points they would've gained if they won, if town loses and the neutral evil died.

I understand its harder to win as a neut, but thats why they get like 300% of the points a town win normally gets.

Executioner with "must survive until end" turned on get double points for surviving and half points for dying.

I'd be cool with upping the points a little here. If you die you dont deserve anything.

Host can rename roles for their variant of a save.

We cant risk the map getting banned because someone wanted to name their variant cock smoking fuck bang.

Points can be used to purchase certain items that enhance a role. Such as an unlock where investigator can detect sheriffs exact role or a cheap, early unlock that makes serial killers night immune. Host may make a game mode ignoring these under game options. Unlocks are necessary for certain roles to even become available; new players can only play as citizen, doctor, sheriff, or godfather/mafioso.
Points also purchase models, hats, being able to create a save, save options, coloured names, blacklisting roles, prefering roles.

We dont want the points system to be a barrier to entry for newer players. Its meant as a cosmetic reward for long time users (with some pregame benefits like prefer).

[Lagoonos]

I understand, and thanks for taking the time to go through each idea and reply Elixir!

I'd like to understand the stigma towards town of salem...players coming back to life was a thing in the party game mafia. My idea from Psychiatrist originally came from the wiki entry there...specifics might be able to be worked out better for that role, but it's a jumping off point for an idea.

For plague...it's a variation of the game I found on the wiki "A random player dies of plague each morning. A player who had targeted the plagued player the previous night may be infected."

Jester appearing as citizen can add some chaos to the game if invest has detect exact role.

Seems odd to me that janitor can have unlimited cleanings, vigi can have unlimited killings, veteran can have unlimited alerts but auditor can't have unlimited audits. It also seems odd that veteran can either have unlimited alerts but NOT 4. Only 3 or unlimited, no in-between.

Would sheriff detecting neutrals really break sheriff?

If psychiatrist makes it into the game, recruiting mafia may be more viable later on, eh?

You didn't comment on disguiser/informant targeting the same target being killed and then becoming that target. Slight change in how it operates, and doesn't give them an extra kill.

With "citizens working as intended" I'd like you to at least consider being made nurse/deputy or recruitment into mafia...because over half the time I've played people get citizen and just ragequit. And I don't blame them, if I couldn't blacklist it and prefer something else I'd not even care about the game anymore.

What about amnesiac becoming unique dead roles?

What about survivor being able to hide behind targets?

Spy is a role that seems almost completely useless, same with coroner, hence suggesting improvements to them. In my saves I remove them from possibly existing as wasted town roles.

I don't get why spy seeing PM's was removed...a crier, marshall, or mayor can reveal and people PM them roles, and at least marshall gets 3 lynches and mayor gets 3 votes...spy revealing gets...people to PM them and that's it. I don't see what's so overpowered about that -plus- seeing useless night chat that mafia doesn't even use unless it's their first time playing.

As far as mafia having more than one kill...I sometimes like to make saves with 2 mafia and 4 or 5 neutrals, also that's why I suggest giving judge a mechanism of interacting with mafia that doesn't clue up town protectives/investigatives.

Night immune being killed if double tapped still makes them twice as tough as everyone else.

Automated last wills already happen for coroner, now that I think about it. Coroner gets to see everyone that person targeted.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Yeah... the SC2 mod just isn't equipped for radical changes like this. Given the speed of games and little time that players have to review rules as they attempt to figure out what's going on, this role would be kind of a disaster, lol. Much better for Forum Mafia where people have time to parse through the setup at a more deliberate pace.

Slaboga.....(thanks god) newbie is worst enough lol.

[Elixir]

I'd like to understand the stigma towards town of salem...players coming back to life was a thing in the party game mafia. My idea from Psychiatrist originally came from the wiki entry there...specifics might be able to be worked out better for that role, but it's a jumping off point for an idea.

In SC2mafia because of dead chat, its very liekly that discussions are taking place about the game state. In the party game mafia dead people are silent. If a mafia player is dead and is having a discussion with a dead towns player and then that towns player isthen revived they get information that they shouldnt have in a game state. Thats just one of the gameplay reasons we don't want to interact with dead. If you then consider it thematically it doesn't make realistic sense to bring someone back to life (yeah you can argue witches and witch doctors all you like but most of the game tries to lie within close to reaility as possible - ESPECIALLY when considering town roles). There are also technical reasons tied into how the graveyard operates.

As for the stigma, I personally disagree with some of the design choices they've made. They did after come to us and made sure we were cool with them pretty much using the sc2mafia concept standalone and we are, that hasn't changed. It's also their game and their vision so they're free to do what they like.

For plague...it's a variation of the game I found on the wiki "A random player dies of plague each morning. A player who had targeted the plagued player the previous night may be infected."

Still dont understand how adding RNG into a game like Mafia makes it more interesting to play. The jester kill is as RNG as I'd like to go.

Jester appearing as citizen can add some chaos to the game if invest has detect exact role.

Okay, that makes a little sense. I guess it wouldn't be a horrible option but it's unbelievably niche... and if you annoy someone then the cover is already going to be blown anyway.

Seems odd to me that janitor can have unlimited cleanings, vigi can have unlimited killings, veteran can have unlimited alerts but auditor can't have unlimited audits. It also seems odd that veteran can either have unlimited alerts but NOT 4. Only 3 or unlimited, no in-between.

The veteran thing is an option limitation I think. Most roles likes that normally get 3/4 unless we dont have enough room for options.

The reason Auditor is strictly imited is because it affects overall team power a lot more than the other ones in question (maybe not janitor, thats arguable but I digress) - A town that begins losing roles to citizen makes the entire game based on a role list much harder to figure out and makes the field a LOT easier for scum to claim. For every random role that becomes a citizen it becomes increasingly more difficult to get a role list that fits the setup when trying to deduce whos claiming a role that can't actually exist. Again, janitor skirts this line too but because it also requires the mafias kill to not be prevented and it also puts 2 mafia in one place for a lookout creating additional risk.

Would sheriff detecting neutrals really break sheriff?

Not enough options on the sheriff. He can already see the neutrals he needs to.

If psychiatrist makes it into the game, recruiting mafia may be more viable later on, eh?

I doubt it. The moment a mafia gets moved from one team to another they sell out their mafia team. In the case the pysch only demotes them to mafioso it doesnt affect the overall vote power that a mafia recruiter would give the mafia.

You didn't comment on disguiser/informant targeting the same target being killed and then becoming that target. Slight change in how it operates, and doesn't give them an extra kill.

Godfathers are the bosses of the Mafia. A disguiser targetting the same target would be overridden by the boss anyway. the most you could get away with is giving priority to digusier over a mafioso and to do that you'd need to bring that kill earlier in the Order of Operations which leaves it open to another faction killing you after the disguise.

I think this is technically unfesible and an organized team should be able to work this out on their own.

With "citizens working as intended" I'd like you to at least consider being made nurse/deputy or recruitment into mafia...because over half the time I've played people get citizen and just ragequit. And I don't blame them, if I couldn't blacklist it and prefer something else I'd not even care about the game anymore.

In a game as power role heavy as mafia I suppose thats just what has happened over time. Citizens are meant to be the simplest role in mafia. It actually was a major talking point to even give them the vest and the tie winning thing. I dont think theres a reason to expand them when we could just make a new role.

What about amnesiac becoming unique dead roles?

The roles are unique because they have massive impact on the game state. Having 2 marshalls in one game would pretty much end the game for example. I don't really think it's needed. The ONLY exception I think its an administrator/consig promotion to DH/GF... which I don't recommend anyone use anyway.

What about survivor being able to hide behind targets?

Too much power for what should be a relatively simple role.

Spy is a role that seems almost completely useless, same with coroner, hence suggesting improvements to them. In my saves I remove them from possibly existing as wasted town roles.
I don't get why spy seeing PM's was removed...a crier, marshall, or mayor can reveal and people PM them roles, and at least marshall gets 3 lynches and mayor gets 3 votes...spy revealing gets...people to PM them and that's it. I don't see what's so overpowered about that -plus- seeing useless night chat that mafia doesn't even use unless it's their first time playing.

Then you didn't play the game when Spy literally changed the entire meta and NO evil teams talked ever and NO ONE PM'd ever and PMs were only used to confirm spies. IE person A messages person B and the person claiming spy reveals what they said -- which then became confirmed town and forced role calls. The role needs to be completely reworked -- and this has been done a few times. Its still not where it should be. Then you get times where 3 spies spawn and you instantly have a voting power bigger than the Mafia.

The confirmable roles are the ones we have to keep a very close eye on. The Judge exists solely to deter from mass claims and we dont need more roles to do that.

You can argue to give him the power back if you made it Unique, but then it would have to go onto the government line and be treated pretty much like the crier.

As far as mafia having more than one kill...I sometimes like to make saves with 2 mafia and 4 or 5 neutrals, also that's why I suggest giving judge a mechanism of interacting with mafia that doesn't clue up town protectives/investigatives.

Possible but the option would just end up being turned on in normal scenarios on battle.net. Its such a strong addition that people would just turn it on and it would become the new norm.

Automated last wills already happen for coroner, now that I think about it. Coroner gets to see everyone that person targeted.

It's not a last will, that's just their action to be able to see targets. Theres no reason this needs to be automatic for every role.

[Elixir]

I would strongly assert that a great many people would enjoy it, and even if they don't, they don't need to use these options.

I want to highlight this quote.

Because of how battle.net operates (and Mafia has been on battle.net for almost 5 years now) certain options that may be designed for certain niche setups or certain scenarios will just be turned on by b.net pubs if it seems to make something more powerful. In certain cases because of this, certain options which may be easy to add and may make sense in certain setups or ideas might not make it in because they have the potential to break or upset the balance in other setups (especially if it becomes the norm).

It's not possible to simply add things under the assumption they wont be used or people dont have to use them.




Hopefully I'm making some form of sense. I'll try to answer any more follow ups.

[DarknessB]

I want to highlight this quote.

Because of how battle.net operates (and Mafia has been on battle.net for almost 5 years now) certain options that may be designed for certain niche setups or certain scenarios will just be turned on by b.net pubs if it seems to make something more powerful. In certain cases because of this, certain options which may be easy to add and may make sense in certain setups or ideas might not make it in because they have the potential to break or upset the balance in other setups (especially if it becomes the norm).

It's not possible to simply add things under the assumption they wont be used or people dont have to use them.




Hopefully I'm making some form of sense. I'll try to answer any more follow ups.

This is an excellent point. A healable Mayor is supposed to be a pretty niche / specialized option, yet a ton of hosts enable it probably because "why not soup up an important Town role?" If you give hosts unbalanced options, they will be used far more often that you might like. Another example in the opposite direction would be the unfortunate Executioner combination of "must survive until end" and no night immunity. Basically, a Survivor sans vests with an extra wincon.

[Kenny]

I like the idea of audited neutrals becoming jester and editing lw's as maf. And spy should be able to see cult chat, as it's otherwise pretty useless in these kind of setups.

[DarknessB]

I like the idea of audited neutrals becoming jester and editing lw's as maf. And spy should be able to see cult chat, as it's otherwise pretty useless in these kind of setups.

I know it's super fun to play Jester, but it would be incredibly unbalanced to allow an Auditor to create Jesters out of audited Neutrals. This also rewards an audited Neutral whereas the mechanic of being audited is supposed to be punitive (who wants to be audited in real life?).

I don't disagree with a special Mafia role that could edit LWs (especially upon the death of a player -- think an alternate version of Janitor), but that would require a lot of coding changes, I'd imagine.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Let's try all these change in a forum game. Give it a shot to see if there is anything goes wrong

[DarknessB]

Let's try all these change in a forum game. Give it a shot to see if there is anything goes wrong

Sure, i'd be in favor of that, but the only problem is that the Forum Mafia meta isn't the same as the SC2 mod meta. When you're flagging big differences from the norm upfront, people are probably going to pay attention, especially when they have more time to think before posting (Forum Mafia).

In contrast, SC2 games are usually started from host saves, where tons of settings might be tweaked and players don't necessarily have the time in-game to scroll over every role and look at every single rule tweak that carefully. That's why radically different game modes in the SC2 mod are much harder to pull off, especially given the very limited time for daytime discussion in most setups.

EDIT: This lack of time also explains why the Firebringer approach tends to work much better in the SC2 mod:

1. "I am Town Leader, get X"
2. (Everyone votes for either X or Firebringer himself)
3. Hopefully, the guilty person was scum.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Sure, i'd be in favor of that, but the only problem is that the Forum Mafia meta isn't the same as the SC2 mod meta. When you're flagging big differences from the norm upfront, people are probably going to pay attention, especially when they have more time to think before posting (Forum Mafia).

In contrast, SC2 games are usually started from host saves, where tons of settings might be tweaked and players don't necessarily have the time in-game to scroll over every role and look at every single rule tweak that carefully. That's why radically different game modes in the SC2 mod are much harder to pull off, especially given the very limited time for daytime discussion in most setups.

EDIT: This lack of time also explains why the Firebringer approach tends to work much better in the SC2 mod:

1. "I am Town Leader, get X"
2. (Everyone votes for either X or Firebringer himself)
3. Hopefully, the guilty person was scum.

Because he's a sheriff jailor confirmed >)O.o)v