An alternate "team style"

[yzb25]

While the fundamental "team style" of mafia, (small but ordered/strong team of mafia vs. large but chaotic/weak team of town) is cool, I think we could grow some alternatives.

Like, imagine this as an alternative: There's Rocks, Papers, Scissors and then the usual neutrals. The Rocks want to kill all the Papers and be left with only scissors alive to win, Papers need to kill scissors and keep a rock alive to win, and so on.

Admittedly, the logic may make your head hurt when you first think about it, but wouldn't this make for some really interesting interactions? Like a Rock trying to kill a scissor, but the scissor not wanting to fight back in self defence because he doesn't want to reduce the number of Rocks. Or a lack of Papers resulting in the Papers temporarily making a truce with the Scissors they plan to kill so that they can work together to stop the Rocks killing all of the remaining Papers. You may even, as a Rock, backstab a fellow Rock that's doing more harm than good! While it may not seem intuitive to kill someone who's theoretically working towards the same objective as you, you only need one Rock and many scissors for the Rocks to have an ensured victory.

Now, there's some blindingly obvious issues with this - trials wouldn't really work so well in their usual state, the mass killing we're used to in mafia would probably suck even more in this "alternate team style", but, with creative, rational theory crafting, I think this has the potential to be a pretty cool idea, if it is built up by multiple minds. I was thinking that the game would be focused on an economic system instead, with the buying of gadgets and income being the main thing that advances the game, rather than loads of deaths over the course of the game. Most deaths would take place towards the end when people can safely afford it.

[Cryptonic]

This seems way to different from Mafia to be accepted in the mod. This is basically a completely different game using roles from Mafia. Only way that this would work would be if there were more than 3 teams, and you can win with 2 different teams, but those 2 teams can't win together. Then still have a majority powerless team, and a minority power team with night kill. Then side teams that have TPR, ect.
If you want to try things like this, I would recommend just playing Forum Mafia.

[DarknessB]

I believe other draft FMs have actually proposed your rock-paper-scissors mechanic in the form of a gang war type game with 3 factions. A's goal is to eliminate faction B, B's goal is to eliminate faction C, and C's goal is to eliminate faction A. I think there were also some neutrals to avoid a voting deadlock and encourage alliances among different players.

Specifically, I recall Firebringer having come up with this type of an idea before. Fire, feel free to jump in if you want, lol.

[yzb25]

This seems way to different from Mafia to be accepted in the mod. This is basically a completely different game using roles from Mafia.

My apologies if I made my intentions unclear. I have no hope of this ever being considered to be added into sc2mafia. (like most of my suggestions, admittedly) The pessimist in me is expects some interesting discussion and theory crafting. The optimist in me is hoping that this might even culminate into a SFM game. Speaking of which...

I believe other draft FMs have actually proposed your rock-paper-scissors mechanic in the form of a gang war type game with 3 factions. A's goal is to eliminate faction B, B's goal is to eliminate faction C, and C's goal is to eliminate faction A. I think there were also some neutrals to avoid a voting deadlock and encourage alliances among different players.

Specifically, I recall Firebringer having come up with this type of an idea before. Fire, feel free to jump in if you want, lol.

Ooooh I'd love to see how that turned out! It's always intriguing when people come up with the same / similar idea in different times / places. Is there any way I could find out the general result of such a game? Anyway...

Only way that this would work would be if there were more than 3 teams, and you can win with 2 different teams, but those 2 teams can't win together. Then still have a majority powerless team, and a minority power team with night kill. Then side teams that have TPR, ect.
If you want to try things like this, I would recommend just playing Forum Mafia.

Aww don't say things like "Only way this would work is this"! Those kinds of statements are the murderers of creative thought! Though, admittedly, I can't imagine voting working very well in a rock/paper/scissor system without a majority team/majority opinion as you say, no matter what kind of logic chains we try to build with win conditions. (because that gives everyone a "majority opinion" to vote with, or pretend to vote with rather than openly voting against enemies). Ultimately, in this system, if someone says "vote this guy", your response will just be "what do I get out of it" rather than "FOR DA TOWN!!!".

Anyway, I'm not 100% sure what you're proposing. Does it go like this?:

TEAM A WINS WITH B AND C, IT IS MAFIA LEVEL COMMONNESS.
^
B AND C HATE EACHOTHER, THEY NEED TO VIE FOR A'S SUPPORT, AND HELP IN THE COMMON GOAL OF FIGHTING "THE WEAK MAJORITY TEAM"

TEAM E, F AND G EXIST IN A SIMILAR FRAMEWORK AND FIGHT AGAINST TEAM A, B AND C.

THEN THERE IS A MAJORITY TEAM THAT HATES ALL OTHERS, LIKE THE TOWN.

Also, I was hoping we could detatch from the classic sc2mafia rules and thinking - to see it as inspiration rather than a rulebook on how to make text-based manipulation/plan formulation games.

[Cryptonic]

What I'm proposing would be like this:

Mafia
Team A
Town
Team B

Mafia wins w/ Team A or Team B
Team A wins with Mafia or Town
Town wiins w/ Team A or Team B
Team B wins with Mafia or Town

Game ends when only 2 teams without conflicting win conditions exist.

[Cryptonic]

I don't mean to discourage your idea, I just know that games tend to have a hard time (limited discussion, barely any plotting, teams found out easily) in games where all teams are the same size. Need to do something to encourage people to hunt and others to lie.

All it takes is someone to be like
X is this faction! Lynch him!
And everyone who votes him is one team, and everyone who doesn't is the other.

[DarknessB]

I don't mean to discourage your idea, I just know that games tend to have a hard time (limited discussion, barely any plotting, teams found out easily) in games where all teams are the same size. Need to do something to encourage people to hunt and others to lie.

All it takes is someone to be like
X is this faction! Lynch him!
And everyone who votes him is one team, and everyone who doesn't is the other.

Unfortunately, this has been the case in other faction v. faction type games. As soon as a member of Faction A, for example, is lynched, provided Faction B knows its membership, the game is effectively over, and might in fact be called by the host at that point. I could see the faction-type games working between with more than two and with conflicting goals among each faction. That might encourage more diplomacy, temporary alliances, etc. Another idea I've seen is something like 5 factions with each faction being able to win with up to 2 other teams, but needing to eliminate 2 other teams for its wincon to be met. Think the MTG color wheel where Black can win with Red or Blue, but needs to eliminate White and Green, Red can win with Black or Green, but needs to eliminate White and Blue, etc. The game could either end upon the first team's win condition to be met or continue until all conflicting wincons have been resolved.

[Cryptonic]

5-sided: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...e-list-and-FAQ

[SuperJack]

Honeslty op, why not experiment? Create s-fm and I'm sure people will play it and test it.

[yzb25]

Honeslty op, why not experiment? Create s-fm and I'm sure people will play it and test it.

Yeah, I think the best thing is to just make a setup and show you what I mean.

I'll be back! But for now, I shall return to the lurking!

[SuperJack]

Or join in and sign up for a FM!

[yzb25]

Or join in and sign up for a FM!

lol I don't wanna get banned by Slaol after I rek so hard.

[SuperJack]

Nah you won't go on.

[Darkcrusader]

Or join in and sign up for a FM!

Lol stop stealing people Jack, I've had my eyes on Zekrom before you. He said he might join the FM because of me not ye' focking hell.

[DarknessB]

Lol stop stealing people Jack, I've had my eyes on Zekrom before you. He said he might join the FM because of me not ye' focking hell.

Solution: Zekrom shall be cut in half and each of SuperJack and sekov shall receive 0.5 points?

[Darkcrusader]

Solution: Zekrom shall be cut in half and each of SuperJack and sekov shall receive 0.5 points?

Dude no....he's already been cut once, *ba dum tsssss* Lol jewish circumcision joke xD

[Zekrom2802]

Seriously... First you mentioned me in the S-FM and now HERE?

[SuperJack]

Zekrom specified that the reason he didn't join a game was due to you. And I've been trying my best to persuade him.

[Cryptonic]

Seriously... First you mentioned me in the S-FM and now HERE?

ur becoming a mememe

[Darkcrusader]

Seriously... First you mentioned me in the S-FM and now HERE?

I'm sorry, I was just playing diablo and it just came to mind senpai

Zekrom specified that the reason he didn't join a game was due to you. And I've been trying my best to persuade him.

Wow, nice way to blame it on me... I've been trying to ask him to play too, even if the sf-m made by you.

[Zekrom2802]

That escalated quickly ._.

[DarknessB]

ur becoming a mememe

To that end, let me take the honor of connecting memes past with new memes:

Okay, I want everyone to know how disappointed I am in Zekrom. He ruined a perfectly fine forum by not signing up for FM games. I will be attempting to start again later (between this week and next week), you will all be signed up for new FM games (probably just S-FMs), and you (Zekrom) will be barred from posting until you can prove to me that you signed up for an FM game.

Welcome Zekrom! You're famous now.

[Zekrom2802]

To that end, let me take the honor of connecting memes past with new memes:

Okay, I want everyone to know how disappointed I am in Zekrom. He ruined a perfectly fine forum by not signing up for FM games. I will be attempting to start again later (between this week and next week), you will all be signed up for new FM games (probably just S-FMs), and you (Zekrom) will be barred from posting until you can prove to me that you signed up for an FM game.

Welcome Zekrom! You're famous now.

That watermeloann reference xD

Well... We are kinda offtopic now

[DarknessB]

That watermeloann reference xD

Well... We are kinda offtopic now

Watermeloann is a forum legend, an artist if you will. Also, just like a lot of famous artists, he's way more popular now vs. when he was active. We all yearn for his triumphant return.

But yeah, you should join an FM game -- it's fun.

[Zekrom2802]

Watermeloann is a forum legend, an artist if you will. Also, just like a lot of famous artists, he's way more popular now vs. when he was active. We all yearn for his triumphant return.

But yeah, you should join an FM game -- it's fun.

Yeah, SuperJack and Darky persuaded me. I'll just wait until a new signup appears.