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Thread: No Cult

  1. ISO #1
    abacab
    Guest

    No Cult

    Hello there.

    I'm sorry, but I have decided for myself that I won't play any game that includes cult. Worse, if Mafia, SK, Arso AND Cult is involved (or even worse, mason+/leader).
    I have not that much experience, though realized that without actual faces and mimics, this game is more about guessing than true lying. Even the pure text-based part, checking chatlog for facts and probabilities gets rough when people who would normally - confronted in real life with a table of gamers - exchange looks and think things through, go trolling and typing bullshit. So, as a matter of fact, the more factions you take into game, the harder it is to "guess" a role. Plus, having almost no "random/basic/adv" roles from any side makes the lying near impossible. I stumbled across a building that had it all, arso, sk, mafia, town, cult and no random/basic/adv roles. The game crawled right under the bleeding nose of ugly madness, with people scammed between trolling and hating. Wait, no! That does only apply to those who like the original game, lying and investigating, combining facts and faerie-tales. Those who don't give a f*** about original intended game mechanics had their fun. I can't and won't ruin their fun by stating the obvious. I will just leave any game that has cult in it. BEFORE I get a role. If that goes against any rule here, then tell me please and I won't bother you again, ever.

    -Z-

  2. ISO #2

    Re: No Cult

    Playa you be trippin', Cult is da shizznit

    Though having 3 maf, an SK, an Arso AND a cult is indeed a crap setup.

    Why you hating on the Masons/Mason Leader? There's your anti-cult tool right there :P

    I be leaving this thread now mon, 'cos you be steamin'



    I don't know why I couldn't decide on just one dialect in this post.
    Spoiler : Previous FM roles :
    FM - VI: Commoner | VII: (Lionel) Gunner, Shinra Inc. | VIII: Investigator | X: (HerrZynisch) Black Wizard | (Graves) Citizen | XII: (Ser Jorah) Armoursmith | XIII: Host (Roxy)!
    M-FM- I: Host | II: Framer | III: Host | IV: Exe | V: Devil Dog | VI: Exe | VIII: DD
    S-FM - I: Jailor | II: Vigilante | V: Sheriff | CI: Paranoid Cop | Torment: Citizen

  3. ISO #3
    Sookie
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    I also have a strong dislike for cultist, and often wont play games with them defined in the set up, but on the other hand i like masons and citizens because they are important. in my opinion a third "facton" if you will just gets in the way of the game.

    now if I'm in a game and there just happens to be a cult in the randoms i just live with it. if they show up deal with them then. i wont be happy, but i wont leave.

  4. ISO #4
    Troll
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    Cult wanna see maf dead. Means more investigation for town.

  5. ISO #5
    NettleS
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunavium View Post
    Playa you be trippin', Cult is da shizznit

    Though having 3 maf, an SK, an Arso AND a cult is indeed a crap setup.
    Lol sounds like my setup , although mine is 2 mafia , arson , sk & cult
    I changed form 3 mafia/sk/2 neutral because people kept complaining my setup was too boring/unoriginal or w/e
    Well now you know why so many people don't make saves in the first place , they can't be bothered putting up with the whiners.

  6. ISO #6

    Re: No Cult

    So, as a matter of fact, the more factions you take into game, the harder it is to "guess" a role.
    Stopped reading there. A much more useful method of finding enemies is to "guess" (I'm guessing you play pubs too much) their alignment, and having more people as your enemies makes that easier (when you have a majority, anyway)


  7. ISO #7

    Re: No Cult

    I don't see why people hate the cult so much. After the initial random nights, it's easy to determine what roles/players become likely cult targets. And having a mason leader in the game helps to find and eliminate the cult.

    I see the cult as being a much more fun alternative to a serial killer. For one, cult targets actually stay in the game. They can keep participating and having fun in the chat. Many early deaths are always frustrating (which is why I also find the arso much more fun than the SK). Secondly, if you die as a cultist it's not immediately game over, which means you stay excited to see how the game unfolds. If some lucky sheriff or a mafia gets you lynched as an SK or arsonist on day 2 or 3, whatever happens afterwards is not very interesting to you. For that very reason, in my setups where I include both an arso and a cult, the arso can be culted.

    The kind of games I personally despise are those with a godfather, an SK, a doctor, a sheriff, an investigator, a failor and randoms. Every other game has that exact setup and it's not because it's "the best," but rather because it's familiar and easy to copy from someone else. The worst kind are those games where the random neutrals allow 3 or 4 killing roles (including godfather) while there might as well be just one.

  8. ISO #8
    Portaloo
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    i'll be honest, if a game starts with any cult whatsoever in the setuup, i'll leave before i get assigned a role. if i am selected as cult from one of the nuetrals, i'll leave the game. if someone recruits me midgame, i'll leave the game. cult just implements more trolling and bullshit by either getting someone mad by taking away their role (by recruiting them) or if someone is recruited they'll ratt out the other cults in pure rage. cult was bad idea from the start.

  9. ISO #9
    Nick
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    Be happy you are not killed. At least you can still "troll" around .

    Still... I do agree that most setups with cult are not balanced >.< . Apparently, town were added with the sole reason of being cult recruits ...
    Last edited by ; November 12th, 2011 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Buggy editor

  10. ISO #10

    Re: No Cult

    People rarely actually troll as cult on the EU servers. Some people complain about it.. but most will play accordingly once the game has started. Though rage quitting does happen at the start sometimes.

    It's really not hard to balance a setup with cultists in it though. Just don't use a serial killer alongside mafia and only allow a recruit every other night. Can't have 2 kills per night AND potential cult recruits. An arso is fine if cultists can recruit him and thus remove the threat of incinerations. Also make sure there are at least 3 townies for every mafia player (happens far too often that people put in 3 mafia with only 7 town in addition to neutrals.. of course the town loses then), as well as a mason leader to bludgeon cultists.

  11. ISO #11
    Tags
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    Allow conversion after two full nights, and cult is balanced.

    By the way, stop getting mad and posting rant threads. If you aren't happy, then post in suggestions or don't play.

  12. ISO #12

  13. ISO #13

  14. ISO #14

    Re: No Cult

    I don't think there is a single sc2 mod that likes cult setups. I know a personally throw a rage-fit everytime tries to force a cult setup onto the lobbies I am in, as plenty of people could likely attest to.

    Most boring garbage plausibly imaginable, a balanced setup involving them is always the slowest mafia game.

  15. ISO #15

  16. ISO #16

    Re: No Cult

    That's the thing though. The extra time isn't necessary in the slightest to finding out people's roles, because the less people there are the easier it becomes. So the only thing cult offers is stagnant gameplay, and since the cult has been basically gimped into the ground it's not even fun to play as them because not only are you restricted by frequency of recruitment but also by maximum size AND you cannot recruit certain roles AND you cannot control who does the recruiting so you're extremely susceptible to roleblocking.

    Seriously, I question the sanity of anyone who enjoys cult setups.

  17. ISO #17
    Celt
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades View Post
    That's the thing though. The extra time isn't necessary in the slightest to finding out people's roles, because the less people there are the easier it becomes. So the only thing cult offers is stagnant gameplay, and since the cult has been basically gimped into the ground it's not even fun to play as them because not only are you restricted by frequency of recruitment but also by maximum size AND you cannot recruit certain roles AND you cannot control who does the recruiting so you're extremely susceptible to roleblocking.

    Seriously, I question the sanity of anyone who enjoys cult setups.
    +1'd for this, Cult is quite stupid.

  18. ISO #18

    Re: No Cult

    The extra time isn't necessary in the slightest to finding out people's roles, because the less people there are the easier it becomes
    That's one of the main reasons why I DISlike 2+ deaths per night setups. There's hardly any challenge involved in matching the pieces of the puzzle together. I find it much preferable if you have to depend on the information of various investigative roles combined in order to come to a conclusion. Those fast paced setups rely on sheriffs and jailors getting lucky and finding at least one bad guy within 2 days tops with absolutely no doubt about it. If they don't, the game ultimately ends up with the mafia winning with a majority around day 5. The whole deception element is unimportant in such games, which is a shame. The only thing that can make those game moderately exciting is if the town succeeded in the first few days, but all those left near the end are somehow unable to read the role chart and someone claims "doctor" on trial while there's absolutely no way for there to be another one in the setup. Cult setups on the other hand have a lot more deception in them because cultists actually lie and use combined information to try and trump the mafia, whereas the mafia generally just keep their mouths shut until someone tries to lynch them.

    Seriously, I question the intelligence of people who enjoy mass killing setups. See wut I did thar? ;)
    Last edited by ; November 16th, 2011 at 02:16 PM.

  19. ISO #19
    Troll
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    GF vs BD vs Jester.

  20. ISO #20

  21. ISO #21

    Re: No Cult

    Quote Originally Posted by Goonswarm View Post
    I liked cult when it was able to take over all roles that are not immune. When cult lost the ability to take over mafia, it was somewhat dulled down to me. Made the game interesting when everyone was able to be a victim. Anyways, mabye DR will allow cult to take over mafia again.
    Have you played the newest version of the cult? The one with a size restriction on cult where for every X amount of deaths divided by half or some shit you get an extra recruitment back? It's like, ludicrously ridiculous.

  22. ISO #22

    Re: No Cult

    For normal games, the cap isn't a very strict limitation if you're playing with 12 or more. It's 1/3rd of the total player count, rounded down. So with 12 players it's 4 and with 15 it's 5.

    Starting out with 1 cultist in a 12 man game where you're able to recruit once every other night, it'll take 5 nights before the cult is "full" if you had no immune targets. That's pretty rare though, because usually you'll hit at least one immune target or possibly a dead target. Considering the average cult game is over in about 8 nights, it's not that big of a limitation.

    You get an extra recruitment attempt for every 2 cultists that die. The only thing that's a bit of a nuisance is that the maximum total number of cultists (including dead ones) can never exceed 5. So in a 15 man game you can't replenish cultists at all.

    It's also not possible to create a pure masons vs. cult game with these limitations, because it's impossible to get a lynching majority over the town if there are no killing roles to cut down the town's numbers.

  23. ISO #23

  24. ISO #24

  25. ISO #25
    YrLastChance
    Guest

    Re: No Cult

    Personally I do not like the cult. Unless there is a mason leader to help weed them out, then the cult becomes too powerful. I wouldn't mind the cult if they had 2 nights in between conversion and they were the only neutral in the game. I have had many games being the last standing town member that helped kill off the mafia and other neutrals and still don't win because the cult can't convert me.

 

 

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