M-FM Fringe - Page 2
Register

User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 51 to 94 of 94

Thread: M-FM Fringe

  1. ISO #51

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Lol, good luck overhauling the setup, but it should be good to go with those changes.

    Last last note about compulsive:
    -Mafia Assigned Kills - any random non-Mafia player
    -Alignment Cop Alignment Check - any random non-previously checked players
    -Tracker Track - any random non-previous tracked players

    ^ these should be the only compulsive night actions
    If players with these roles don't submit night actions, randomize it

    There are reasons with the roles I suggested where it may be optimal for them not to use their night action.

  2. ISO #52

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    Going through all 40 roles now:

    Starting with town. Asterisks indicate what I'd remove. I suggested plenty of changes.

    I'd also suggest you include the possibility of modifiers - especially for Mafia.

    Sheriff - Good as is considering last wills

    *Lookout - I'd take this one and keep Tracker instead.
    Yah Me takin et out

    Detective - This is a Tracker. I'd keep this one.

    *Journalist - I'd get rid of this
    Keeping. I like it, reveals message in both universes.

    Doctor -
    I'd change it so Targets are not informed of being healed.
    I'd still let Godfather and Neutral Killing know they were attacked, but not that they were healed.
    I'd let Doctor know if their target was attacked- this is different than successful heal. Normally I wouldn't even allow this because it gives Doctor an information on top of stopping a kill. It's a small mechanical hand hold since targets aren't notified they were healed, but Doctor knows they were attacked.
    Suggestion will be accepted. Only Doctors and Immune roles will be informed of attack.

    *Bus Driver - This is too powerful. I'd take it out.
    Keeping it in, may restrict to being unable to swap self.

    Escort - I'd make sure targets are not informed if they were blocked. Again, blocking a potential kill is enough of a power. By allowing players to confirm an escort it becomes a mechanical hand holding game.
    Yah Will removed inform.

    *Jailor - This is too powerful. I'd say just take it out. Even if it became a jail keeper with night chat it'd be a Roleblocker on steroids.
    I'm keeping this one. I like it.

    Vigilante - Great role. I'd say it's as powerful as a Night Zero Alignment Cop.

    *Veteran - I'd take this out
    Nah. I like it.

    *Architect - I'd take this out
    Nah I may just change the mechanics so they can also create cross universe chats between 2 players.

    *Mayor - I'd take this out
    Keeping this one also

    *Spy - I understand why this is here, but it would be a very time consuming role. I'd take it out for issue of theory vs practice - I doubt this role will be used to its potential.
    Keeping this, will change ability to find out which universe has more scum in

    *Transporter - I know this plays into your setup idea, but it could swing the game way too much. I'd rework it or get rid of it.
    Will give it limited charge, or only able it to move a player away from the universe with more players in to the lesser universe.

    Enhanced Citizen - I'd change this to 1-shot auto vest instead of universe jumping
    It exists for universe jumping.

    *Marshall - I'd take this out
    Nah I like it.

    Citizen - the best role
    I like it.

    I'd add:

    Innocent Child Nah I have mayor. But I may either lower his extra vote to only 1 or remove it. Ir make it Tempory

    Bodyguard Not a fan.

    Masons I dont fancy masons this game.

    Final lineup for town would look like:

    1. Alignment Cop
    2. Tracker
    3. Roleblocker
    4. Vigilante
    5. 1-Shot Autovest Citizen
    6. Citizen
    7. Innocent Child
    8. Bodyguard
    9. Mason


    No night zero alignment cop - last wills make it overpowered. Regular alignment cop is fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    Mafia roles now:

    Godfather - immune to detection and bulletproof is overpowered. Give godfather the choice of one or the other.
    Will do

    *Kidnapper - overpowered
    Still keeping it

    *Tracker - this is overpowered, I'd switch it to strictly Watcher.
    Nah, he has a choice of detective power or lookout power.

    *Chauffeur - overpowered
    I'm keeping roles that have the ability to swap universe.

    Consort - only change for Mafia roleblocker is targets shouldn't get feedback
    K

    Consigliere - Mafia role cop is fine
    K

    *Framer - I'd get rid of this. GF has the potential to be go Ninja or Bulletproof. Existence of Framer invalidates town investigatives far too much.
    Nope. I like the framer. But I may change the ability to or instead of and

    *Drug Dealer - I'd get rid of it
    Am doing, I fell they are annoying.

    *Beguiler - I'd get rid of this
    Nope, cross universe ability

    *Actress - I'd get rid of this
    Will do

    *Corrupted Spy - again, this would not get the potential it deserves
    I think the logic of the reason to remove it is silly.

    *Corrupt Enhanced Citizen - I'd change this to 1-shot Mafia Bullet Proof and do away with universe jumping.
    PRO UNIVERSE JUMPING so nope

    *Corrupt Journalist - I'd take this out
    nope. I like it

    *Corrupt Architect - I'd take this out
    Also like this

    *Witch - I'd take this out
    Nope.

    *Disguiser - I'd take this out
    Yeh I'm removing any account changing roles

    Mafioso - great

    I'd add:

    1-shot Mafia Strongman: if Strongman is elected to enact the assigned kill, he may also choose to use his 1-shot strongman ability. Will Do

    1-shot Autovest Mafia Nah

    Mafia Ninja Nah

    ALSO - since there are last wills/
    I'd allow the possibility of a Forger role. Forgot about him. Will add hin.


    Final Mafia Line-up would look like:

    1. Godfather (Bulletproof/Ninja) - must choose
    2. Mafia Ninja
    3. 1-Shot Mafia Bulletproof
    4. Mafia Watcher
    5. Mafia Roleblocker
    6. Mafia Role Cop (Consig)
    7. Mafioso
    8. Forger
    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    17 roles and only neutrals to go - this is much more manageable for game play and makes sense considering two 10 player setups.

    Still thinking through how to change neutrals and neutral killing to work with mechanics.

    Might have to amend mechanics a bit to make it work.

    *On Mechanics:
    Working out how player swapping will make sense while:
    A) Maintaining balance
    B) Not nullifying power roles
    C) Allowing the neutral to pass of required

    I think it's as simple as the 2 worlds must merge and everyone gains visibility of both worlds at a certain point.

    That point may be at a certain combined player count, when one world of the two worlds reaches a certain size, or some combination.

    I'll think through it.

    Let's say in world A 1 Mafia is lynched, 1 Mafia is killed, leaving either one neutral killing, or one neutral turned Mafia. If they're subsequently lynched, by Night 2 there's basically 7 confirmed townies. So if there were a merge, the game would be broken. I'd put in a provision if that were to occur, like one citizen becomes a member of the Mafia. It's not perfect, but it deals with that highly unlikely scenario.

    I'd say given the current death rate of 1 lynch, 1 kill, that'd be until D6 where 10 players are left. That's not factoring in the neutral killer or town killing. If it would, it would be until D4 where worlds merge. I'd say worlds should auto-merge on D4 or the day where combined players begin with 12 players, whichever comes first.
    A Universe will collapse when 2 or less players remain. If no scum remain in a universe it still does not collapse. Leaving to the possibility of town only having town to lynch in one universe,

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    On neutral roles:
    For the sake of balance, I'd make the neutral role the one I suggested.

    Neutral -
    Assume the vanilla role of the alignment of the first player lynched in your world. (Aka you flip vanilla)
    If neutral killing is lynched first in your world, you take their role and flip as neutral killing. If you win, the other neutral killing wins.
    If you are lynched first in your world, one random town in your world is killed and you lose.
    So like a Forced Amnesiac? Kinda neat. Will think about editing it

    Jester - is anti-town during day and night and punishing town most likely if vengeful upon lynch. Unbalanced.
    Jester does not get to kill anyone when lynched.

    Survivor - just needs to Mafia side to win. Unbalanced.
    May make it so he needs to be in the universe that does not collapse.

    Equalist - no longer relevant with my suggested mech overhaul
    Not really changing the mechanic overhaul so keeping it

    Ghost - I hate vents. I can link you yayap's spiel on vents.
    Yeh something I've agreed with after smurfing

    Lawyer - impossible with revised mechanics - and damned near impossible with the old ones
    I had @DarknessB in mind ;)

    Jk I forgot i was supposed to fix it, your right its damn near impossible, may reduce it too one / give him some kind of vote mechanic


    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    Last comment on the neutral killer-

    The KPN is significantly lower than that of an arsonist.
    Yeh, but he only needs to see the death of one universe, and I'll make him a tad stronger perhaps.
    I'd just use the exact two examples I suggest in the M-FM Rick and Morty setup.

    That and I'm lazy to think of another neutral killing that would make sense.

    That rounds it out to 20 role potentials total, which should be at the top end for ~20 player game.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  3. ISO #53

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    I think this last comment should finish up with balancing the setup:

    Mafia assigned kill must be compulsive. Yup will add

    There must always be 1 lynch a day. Nah. If town want to fuck up its their choice.

    The world with more votes on one player is the lynch that goes through. Yeh already a thing

    In the event where both worlds have the same amount of votes on the lynch, the world with more players enacts the lynch. no-Lynch

    Where both worlds have the same number of players, the lynch is randomized - although for balance I'd prefer it go to the world with more non-town players alive, I feel this would create mechanical hunting later on.
    no lynch

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    Lol, good luck overhauling the setup, but it should be good to go with those changes.

    Last last note about compulsive:
    -Mafia Assigned Kills - any random non-Mafia player Done
    -Alignment Cop Alignment Check - any random non-previously checked players Eh. If they want to be stupid its their choice. I'm fine with stupid. As long as its not gamethrowing
    -Tracker Track - any random non-previous tracked players Eh. If they want to be stupid its their choice. I'm fine with stupid. As long as its not gamethrowing

    ^ these should be the only compulsive night actions
    If players with these roles don't submit night actions, randomize it No, They will just be prompted like fuck.

    There are reasons with the roles I suggested where it may be optimal for them not to use their night action. makes sense.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  4. ISO #54

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Realize the last line of the last quoted post is poorly phrased.

    It's never optimal to not perform their night action for:
    Alignment Cop
    Or
    Tracker

    It's the equivalent of throwing the game.

    Mafia assigned kill being compulsive is more of a town-siding modifier. The alternative creates scenarios that may be optimal for Mafia not to kill or FPS unnecessarily from the start.

    All other roles may have reasons to not act their night action, including but not limited to:
    Being watched by Mafia watcher
    Accidentally healing a scum
    Accidentally shooting a town
    Accidentally roleblocking a town

    Etc.

    Tracker and Alignment Cop always benefit from enacting their night action, even if being watched.

  5. ISO #55

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    I'm not a fan of compulsive mafia night kills, if escort goes off and there is no night kill, it's a confirmed scum hit, effectively making escort a role-stopping sheriff.

    Allowing mafia to choose to night kill allows for gambits, false confirming doctor targets, getting a mislead on escort, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post

    But I'm not sure on the Force Factional Kill Option, would like more OPINIONS
    Last edited by deathworlds; September 5th, 2016 at 01:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Shocked Kirby Face View Post
    Deathworlds is simply better than us at this game. Don't kill them for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  6. ISO #56

  7. ISO #57

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    Realize the last line of the last quoted post is poorly phrased.

    It's never optimal to not perform their night action for:
    Alignment Cop
    Or
    Tracker

    It's the equivalent of throwing the game.

    Mafia assigned kill being compulsive is more of a town-siding modifier. The alternative creates scenarios that may be optimal for Mafia not to kill or FPS unnecessarily from the start.

    All other roles may have reasons to not act their night action, including but not limited to:
    Being watched by Mafia watcher
    Accidentally healing a scum
    Accidentally shooting a town
    Accidentally roleblocking a town

    Etc.

    Tracker and Alignment Cop always benefit from enacting their night action, even if being watched.
    If they are not playing towards their win it counts as gamethrowing. Which results in punishment.
    And yeh will assign that mafia kill to any non-mafia role.

    But I'm not sure on the Force Factional Kill Option, would like more OPINIONS
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  8. ISO #58

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    I'm not a fan of compulsive mafia night kills, if escort goes off and there is no night kill, it's a confirmed scum hit, effectively making escort a role-stopping sheriff.

    Allowing mafia to choose to night kill allows for gambits, false confirming doctor targets, getting a mislead on escort, etc
    ^ it is a town siding mechanic.

    You're not factoring in town killing, neutral killing, heals, blocks, etc. there are many ways in which it doesn't confirm anything.

    I can pull up an article on why compulsive assigned kills makes sense in 2 vs 7 games, but it's not EXACTLY apples to apples in a 10 player game.

  9. ISO #59

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    No lynch in ties is very tilting, lol.
    The game depends on lynching.
    Going out of your way to make a rule counter to the players objectives is weird.
    As long as world merge D4 or 12 players day start, which ever comes first, it shouldn't be an issue.
    No world Merging. Only Collapse of Universe when Players are 2 or less in said universe.
    I wanted an extra barrier to the lynching process which relates to the fact that their are two world.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  10. ISO #60

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    ^ it is a town siding mechanic.

    You're not factoring in town killing, neutral killing, heals, blocks, etc. there are many ways in which it doesn't confirm anything.

    I can pull up an article on why compulsive assigned kills makes sense in 2 vs 7 games, but it's not EXACTLY apples to apples in a 10 player game.
    Compulsive kills severely nerf the utility of the mafia night kill. Mafia should have more control during the night, who lives and who dies, not just "who dies".
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Shocked Kirby Face View Post
    Deathworlds is simply better than us at this game. Don't kill them for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  11. ISO #61

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    No world Merging. Only Collapse of Universe when Players are 2 or less in said universe.
    I wanted an extra barrier to the lynching process which relates to the fact that their are two world.
    Ok, with the current state of the setup I disagree with this mechanic.

    I guess first balance the setup more and then there's something to talk about?

    My ideas to balance the setup aren't the only way to balance it- it's just what I came up with.

  12. ISO #62

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Compulsive kills severely nerf the utility of the mafia night kill. Mafia should have more control during the night, who lives and who dies, not just "who dies".
    It depends on the setup.

    I'm going off of virtually every setup norm rule of thumb, so I'd disagree with you here most of the time.

    This appears to be a very different setup, although it is not yet complete, so maybe compulsive assigned kills don't apply to this one setup.

    *edit* this is the meat of custom games by the way. Figuring out how different you want your setup to be from standard.

  13. ISO #63

  14. ISO #64

  15. ISO #65

  16. ISO #66

  17. ISO #67

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Permission to open the Sign-Ups?


    Also some opinions are wanted:

    Lynch is currently set to 51% or above. Should this be changed to Highest voted player? (Draws will still result in No Lynch)
    Should Mafia be given a 24/7 Chat as opposed to Night?
    Should the comfirmed Godfather be replaced with another ZFT, but let the ZFT choose one player to either get Immunity to Detection OR Kills
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  18. ISO #68

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Permission to open the Sign-Ups?


    Also some opinions are wanted:

    Lynch is currently set to 51% or above. Should this be changed to Highest voted player? (Draws will still result in No Lynch)
    Should Mafia be given a 24/7 Chat as opposed to Night?
    Should the comfirmed Godfather be replaced with another ZFT, but let the ZFT choose one player to either get Immunity to Detection OR Kills
    Bump
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  19. ISO #69

  20. ISO #70

  21. ISO #71

  22. ISO #72

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Permission to open the Sign-Ups?


    Also some opinions are wanted:

    Lynch is currently set to 51% or above. Should this be changed to Highest voted player? (Draws will still result in No Lynch)
    Should Mafia be given a 24/7 Chat as opposed to Night?
    Should the comfirmed Godfather be replaced with another ZFT, but let the ZFT choose one player to either get Immunity to Detection OR Kills
    1) I think a combination of majority lynch locking thread on maj combined with plurality lynch (whoever has most votes EOD is lynched) is great. It severely takes away from issues wrt slankers.

    2) Mafia night chat only vs. 24/7 chat - your call - it's your custom

    3) I'm not sure I follow the third question so I'll check it out. I usually set Godfather having a Night Zero choice of either bullet proof or detection immune. I don't see a difference with that suggestion you've made, but I'll reread the rolecards. Also, it's your custom to make sense of it with roles you choose. Generally a detection immune bullet proof with night kill ability is too op for factional scum though.

  23. ISO #73

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    1) I think a combination of majority lynch locking thread on maj combined with plurality lynch (whoever has most votes EOD is lynched) is great. It severely takes away from issues wrt slankers.

    2) Mafia night chat only vs. 24/7 chat - your call - it's your custom

    3) I'm not sure I follow the third question so I'll check it out. I usually set Godfather having a Night Zero choice of either bullet proof or detection immune. I don't see a difference with that suggestion you've made, but I'll reread the rolecards. Also, it's your custom to make sense of it with roles you choose. Generally a detection immune bullet proof with night kill ability is too op for factional scum though.
    I'm not always the best at slang like Maj, Wrt. So forgive me If I dont know what they mean.

    I'll make it 24/7. I'm feeling towards that.

    By point 3, i was just saying to remove the confirmed GF role card, in exchange for the scum picking who the GF is. I guess I waffled.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  24. ISO #74

  25. ISO #75

  26. ISO #76

  27. ISO #77

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    if william bell is dead can framer still frame someone as him? same for mafia

    detective does not track jailer/journalist right?

    are players attacked informed of heals?

    if someone is bus driven are they switching universes entirely or only for the night phase?

    are escorts informed of failed roleblock, what about targets?

    jailor has no limitations on executions?

    can vig be witched to shoot self?

    if veteran is witch does it activate alert, if so does it kill witch?

    can mayor be healed if not revealed?

    if spy detects 0 in a universe, would it say? if there were 0 in both universe would it say?

    hwo many charges does transporter have? can it target self? can it target a player not in its universe?

    can marshall be healed when revealed? if not when not revealed?

    are citizens the only ones who have public last wills?

    can chauffer target their own sxum mates?

    is consort immune to roleblocking? is consort infromed of failed rbing? are players informed of consrots rb? if so whats the feedback?

    can consig learn William bell? if not what does he show as?

    corrupted spy has no night action?

  28. ISO #78

  29. ISO #79

  30. ISO #80

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    if william bell is dead can framer still frame someone as him? same for mafia
    I'm removing the William Bell detection

    detective does not track jailer/journalist right?
    Correct.

    are players attacked informed of heals?
    Nope. That was removed to create less comfortable roles.

    if someone is bus driven are they switching universes entirely or only for the night phase?
    Entirely

    are escorts informed of failed roleblock, what about targets?
    No one is informed about roleblocks.

    jailor has no limitations on executions?
    Fixed. They now will have X amount of executionns

    can vig be witched to shoot self?
    Sure he can.

    if veteran is witch does it activate alert, if so does it kill witch?
    It activates his ability. But because the witch is before him in the OoO, the witch does not die.

    can mayor be healed if not revealed?
    Nope.

    if spy detects 0 in a universe, would it say? if there were 0 in both universe would it say?
    Yes. And Yes.

    hwo many charges does transporter have? can it target self? can it target a player not in its universe?
    I'll fix this up. But X charges means that its up to me. It can be different if 2 people get the role. (aka A gets 1 charge and B gets 2)
    Also this ->-Roles can only target players in the same Universe unless specified otherwise.

    can marshall be healed when revealed? if not when not revealed?
    I'm going to leave him heal-able because his is a one shot power unlike the mayors.

    are citizens the only ones who have public last wills?
    Everyone can have last wills. In Mechanics section.

    can chauffer target their own sxum mates?
    Sure he can.

    is consort immune to roleblocking? is consort infromed of failed rbing? are players informed of consrots rb? if so whats the feedback?
    No, No, No feedback.

    can consig learn William bell? if not what does he show as?
    I'll make that a no. And he will show as Citizen.

    corrupted spy has no night action?
    Nah. Just the ability to read both universes.
    Last edited by SuperJack; October 10th, 2016 at 04:32 AM.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  31. ISO #81

  32. ISO #82

  33. ISO #83

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    @SuperJack

    seeing how kill comes before heal (and others) do all roles after kill still go through even if dead? i know it says for citizens but what about doc healing and transporter?

    do all kills resolve simultaneously? reason being if overload goes off and person is vig shooting, would the vig shot go through (or anything else like that)

    if a jailor/kiddnaper is killed would they not execute?

    when they are executing will they be seen visting the target? what about detaining?

  34. ISO #84

  35. ISO #85

  36. ISO #86

  37. ISO #87

  38. ISO #88

  39. ISO #89

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    Any update re; start date?
    Participant in Forum Mafia:
    FMIV: Citizen Jacqulyn | FMV:Investigator Amber | FMVII: Doctor Jaret| FMVIII: Godfather & Ventriloquist Ike/ Stephen | FM IX: Citizen Matvei| FMX: Escort fm_oops_ur_dead FMXI: Citizen Kony FMXIII: Citizen Greedo FMXIX: Citizen FM Yoshimo

  40. ISO #90

  41. ISO #91

  42. ISO #92

  43. ISO #93

    Re: M-FM Fringe

    @SuperJack

    How does William Bell appear to Sheriff?

    Is a heal "successful" if the target is attacked twice and still dies?

    Concern: Spy action can confirm alignment of ZFT/Town Corrupted Citizens

    How do you determined the "first" person visited for Detective/Tracker?

    If a Veteran uses their action while a Bruiser uses their bypass on the Veteran, what happens?

    Please edit the non-cross Graveyard into the setup description.

    Is the ZFT chat cross-universe?

    So... if ZFT kill everyone in one universe, the remaining members of that universe just... die?


    When does the game end?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  44. ISO #94

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •