Assassin's Oath and Citizens

[Stealthbomber16]

So recently I'm sure you guys are aware that Firebringer's S-FM Assassin's Oath ended unusually quickly. This was highly reminiscent of a sc2mafia game, with no citizens. This made it unusual. As the arsonist in that game, I think Firebringer's TPR only game is getting too much hate (even though i lost horribly). This may be a decent idea.

A few games come to mind on this topic

M-FM Voodoo
There are 2 cults, which get bonuses if they recruit a TPR.

M-FM Five Sided Town
A game with 5 citizens, one for each faction in the game, which win if their faction wins.

My game, S-FM Wraith Night
If enough citizens died the King was revived

S-FM Your Everyday Average Game
Most citizens had an anti-majority primary role

In each of these games citizens were either buffed or non-existing. So do we really call them citizens?

If we're revolving around the fact that citizens have no night action, then lets look at a few other roles
Ghost/Jester
The ghost has no night action but often plays a lot differently than a citizen. The jester does the same thing.
Veteran
Citizens are often very active in day chat and so are Veterans.

But in Assassin's Oath, there were NO roles with no night actions. Is this a bad idea?

Lets look at S-FM Sherlock Holmes
There are energetic citizens, which visit someone at night.
This, combined with some detectives and Mass Murderers, made for a lot of kills.

But they are still considered citizens, right?

My point is that we do a lot of no-citizen-like games than we think. Firebringer just put the names differently.

[deathworlds]

Actually in my setup 3/4 of the citizens were rule followers, the other one was a gamethrower.

and 3/7 of the rule followers were citizens.

[Stealthbomber16]

Actually in my setup 3/4 of the citizens were rule followers, the other one was a gamethrower.

and 3/7 of the rule followers were citizens.

stahp it

[Cryptonic]

None of my games made the list
*rejoices*

[Firebringer]

Fire's game was shit!

Naah, it couldve went alot better, bad luck ruined it.

I will use more of the citizens you guys love. I was testing a theory for that game. You were all guinea pigs. The test was a failure, I am on my way to the Citizen love train.

How do I get on Cryptonic?

[BananaCucho]

Fire's game was shit!

Naah, it couldve went alot better, bad luck ruined it.

I will use more of the citizens you guys love. I was testing a theory for that game. You were all guinea pigs. The test was a failure, I am on my way to the Citizen love train.

How do I get on Cryptonic?

No, it was just shit

[Firebringer]

No, it was just shit

You are right. I am just trying to cheer myself up.

Hope you join the Terminator game Banana

[Slaol]

You are right. I am just trying to cheer myself up.

Hope you join the Terminator game Banana

/presign

[Stealthbomber16]

I love how this has degraded from its topic.

Topic is:
Is firebringer's Assassin's Oath deserving of so much hate?

[DarknessB]

Depends whether you were town or scum -- I, for one, am very happy about my steamroll win. I got to assemble the Assassin dream team of POD and TDL.

I love how this has degraded from its topic.

Topic is:
Is firebringer's Assassin's Oath deserving of so much hate?

[Cryptonic]

I don't think the problem was that there were no Citizens, I think the balance fell short because the role slots were disclosed so openly. You know the max # of each role in the game, and that makes it incredibly hard for scum.

D1 roleclaim would basically reduce the lynch down to 4-5 people (due to claims & cc's), and give you the near same amount of confirmed town. If scum doesn't outnumber the amount of confirmed town, then it's insta-lose.

[BananaCucho]

I love how this has degraded from its topic.

Topic is:
Is firebringer's Assassin's Oath deserving of so much hate?

Hate? Naw this isn't hate, its ridicule.

[Stealthbomber16]

I don't think the problem was that there were no Citizens, I think the balance fell short because the role slots were disclosed so openly. You know the max # of each role in the game, and that makes it incredibly hard for scum.

D1 roleclaim would basically reduce the lynch down to 4-5 people (due to claims & cc's), and give you the near same amount of confirmed town. If scum doesn't outnumber the amount of confirmed town, then it's insta-lose.

I can second this.

More random roles.

[Cryptonic]

To clarify my thoughts:



Mentor
Town Government: Mayor, Marshall
Town Investigator: Investigator, Thief, Lookout
Town Investigator: Investigator, Thief, Lookout
Town Killing: Veteran, Mercenary, Jailor.
Town Protective: Courtesan, Bodyguard, Doctor
Test Subject-Courtesan, Mercenary, Thief
Neutral Killing: Arsonist, Serial Killer, and Crazed Gunmen
Neutral Benign: Survivor, Eurdito, and Amnesiac.
Templar
Jester


I highlighted the roles.
Let's say town did d1 roleclaim.

Best roleclaims for scum: Thief (can be up to 3), any Investigative (as there are two).
Easiest roleclaims for scum: Benign Neutral, Doctor, Veteran, Bodyguard.
Jester would CC anything except Killing, incase of Vigilante (unless Jester waits until last to claim).

Now, let's just say the scum decide to make smart & safe claims, and the Jester is trying not to stand out.

Mentor ---claims---> Mentor
Mayor ---claims---> Mayor
Lookout ---claims---> Lookout
Thief ---claims---> Thief
Veteran ---claims---> Veteran
Bodyguard ---claims---> Bodyguard
Courtesan ---claims---> Courtesan
Arsonist ---claims---> Doctor
Survivor ---claims---> Survivor
Templar ---claims---> Thief
Jester ---claims---> Bodyguard

Confirmed players:
Mentor
Mayor
Veteran
Survivor

Scum falls within these 3 categories:
1) Lookout/Thief/Thief = 33% scum, 67% town.
2) Thief/Thief/Bodyguard/Bodyguard/Doctor = 40% scum, 40% town, 20% Jester.
3) Thief/Thief/Courtesan = 33% scum, 67% town.

Town can then direct night actions to confirm players.

Veteran stays on alert to avoid target.
Lookout watches Mayor & Courtesan via WIFOM. (gives ballsy scum 50% chance of succeeding)
Courtesan blocks non-confirmed town.
Mentor converts non-confirmed town.

Survivor becomes best target for Cult, basically... Which doesn't hurt the town very much.

This doesn't even take into account if BG is successful with healing.

[Firebringer]

If i was jester i would claim something insane like Mentor or Mayor. Maybe that would make me a target for night kills but it would be fun getting lynched that way, BG is boring.

You are right there shouldve been more room for claims.

[Cryptonic]

If i was jester i would claim something insane like Mentor or Mayor. Maybe that would make me a target for night kills but it would be fun getting lynched that way, BG is boring.

You are right there shouldve been more room for claims.

True, Jester could make those claims, they wouldn't be bad for WIFOM.