S-FM: Werewolf Assault

[MattZed]

WEREWOLF ASSAULT

Setup is ready for review!

Spoiler : Changelog :

8/7/15 - Half-Blood conversion no longer exceeds cap

8/2/15 - Added another Half-Blood

8/1/15 - Changed a lycanthrope to citizen and moved start back to Night 1
8/1/15 - Added Half-Blood and removed Jailor

7/28/15 - General tidying up/clarifying role cards
7/28/15 - Made game start on Day 1 instead of Night 1

7/13/15 - Clarified OoO to include factional roleblock

7/9/15 - Added factional roleblock to werewolves

6/22/15 - Prevented Werewolf from converting with 2+ Lycanthropes, clarified that jailor has an unlimited number of executions

For 13 Players

RP:For years, you have lived in a peaceful town. However, one of you has a dark secret: (s)he is a WEREWOLF. In this desperate time, you must work together to find and eliminate the WEREWOLF and their Lycanthropes before it is too late.

Roles list:
WEREWOLF
Lycanthrope
Priest
Sheriff
Doctor
Amnesiac
Half-Blood
Half-Blood
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Role Cards:

Spoiler : Werewolves :

WEREWOLF
You share a night chat with the Lycanthropes.
At night, you may choose to either kill or convert one person to a Lycanthrope.
In addition, you may choose a player to intimidate, preventing them from performing a night action.
You may not use your conversion ability when you have at least two Lycanthropes.
You must be alive to perform conversions.

Lycanthrope
You share a night chat with the WEREWOLF and other Lycanthropes.
If you became a Lycanthrope by conversion, you lose all powers you may have previously had.
If the WEREWOLF is dead, you confer with the other Lycanthropes to decide who to kill and who to intimidate.

Spoiler : Town :

Priest
At night, you may purify one player. Purifying a player makes them immune to conversion that night.
You will not be informed if your purification was successful.
If you attempt to purify a Lycanthrope or Half-Blood, it will kill them.
You cannot be converted to a Lycanthrope. Any attempt to convert you will instead become an attack against you.

Sheriff
At night, you may check one person for their alignment.

Doctor
At night, heal one person, saving them from death. (including by purification)
You will not be informed if your heal was successful.

Amnesiac
At night, choose to become one town role in the graveyard.

Half-Blood
Players are not informed of being a Half-Blood; they are given a Citizen rolecard instead.
If a doctor visits you, you will receive feedback informing you that you are a Half-Blood.
You appear as a werewolf to sheriff investigations.
If a priest visits you, they will attempt to kill you; if they are successful, you will appear as a lycanthrope in the graveyard.
(you will appear as a Citizen if killed by other means)
If the werewolves kill you and have fewer than three members, you will instead be converted to a lycanthrope.

Citizen
There is nothing special about you.

Order of Operations: (OoO)
1. Night begins
2. Last Wills written
3. Werewolf factional roleblock
4. Priest purifies
5. Werewolf/Lycanthrope kills
6. Werewolf converts
7. Doctor heals
8. Sheriff investigates
9. Amnesiac remembers

Mechanics:
Days last 48 hours or until a lynch has been achieved
Nights last 24 hours
Last wills allowed (and encouraged)
No death notes
Lynch requires 51% votes and will use the [vote] tags.
Day immediately ends after a lynch
Night actions must be PM'd to me or posted in night chat
Graveyard will reveal role and method of death
Game starts with Night 1

Win Conditions:
Werewolves: Kill/convert the entire town, or make it so nothing can stop you from doing so. (all remaining town will be mercy killed, not converted)
Town: Eliminate the Werewolf and Lycanthropes.

Rules:
1. Inactives will be replaced or modkilled. Missing a night action without telling me "perform no action" counts as inactivity, as does not posting in the first 36 hours of a day.
2. Town may not attempt to help the werewolves win with the hope of being converted. This will be considered gamethrowing and result in a modkill.
3.No out-of-game communication.
4. No editing or deleting posts.
5. No videos or links. (pictures OK, within reason)
6. No invisible text.
7. No quoting PM's.
8. English only.

[BananaCucho]

Looks fun

[deathworlds]

Mafiult is fun.

[MattZed]

Mafiult is fun.

I prefer to call it Cultafia, but I agree.

My main concern at this point is balance. This is actually a few iterations past what I had originally conceived of. There are some balanced features I really like, such as one protective role for each scum action, an amnesiac that can be a backup for power roles, and that town can afford two mis-lynches. (three seems too many with two "killing" roles.) Feedback to this dimension of the game would be most appreciated!

My current inclination is that town is slightly OP.

[deathworlds]

Not really, mafiult will convert 2+ people and kill the rest.

Bigger ratios of mafia : town = steamroll of town

[MattZed]

I don't mean so much imbalance as to warrant adding another lycanthrope, but maybe change the power roles or number of players up a little

The current version has a night start so a jailor doesn't get to possibly do an N1 werewolf kill or something like that. However, this may not be too big of a concern. Perhaps a day start?

[deathworlds]

I don't mean so much imbalance as to warrant adding another lycanthrope, but maybe change the power roles or number of players up a little

The current version has a night start so a jailor doesn't get to possibly do an N1 werewolf kill or something like that. However, this may not be too big of a concern. Perhaps a day start?

It's fine the way it is. Really.

[powerofdeath]

My main concern is obviously balance. The werewolves already start with 3 members. The game start on night one so Day 1 will end up being 4v9. Converting is actually removing a member from the town + adding a member to the scum. Let say town will lynch wrong or skip day 1 like most games, it will end up being 5v7 or 5v8 and werewolves will just steamroll the town on Day 2. Even if town successfully lynched a lycanthingy, the werewolves will still be able to hold a good number because theyre really replaceable. I would prob start the game with 1v12 or changing the mechanics. Just my personal opinion. I'm sure Orpz or Cryptonic have a lot better idea of balance than I do.

The main werewolf have to die on Day 1/Day 2 if town want to win. Lynching a lycanthingy wont help the town, instead it just stall the game giving the werewolves more conversion.

[MattZed]

My main concern is obviously balance. The werewolves already start with 3 members. The game start on night one so Day 1 will end up being 4v9. Converting is actually removing a member from the town + adding a member to the scum. Let say town will lynch wrong or skip day 1 like most games, it will end up being 5v7 or 5v8 and werewolves will just steamroll the town on Day 2. Even if town successfully lynched a lycanthingy, the werewolves will still be able to hold a good number because theyre really replaceable. I would prob start the game with 1v12 or changing the mechanics. Just my personal opinion. I'm sure Orpz or Cryptonic have a lot better idea of balance than I do.

The main werewolf have to die on Day 1/Day 2 if town want to win. Lynching a lycanthingy wont help the town, instead it just stall the game giving the werewolves more conversion.

This is why I have a priest, who can kill Lycans, and an amn who can possibly act as backup for the priest.

[powerofdeath]

This is why I have a priest, who can kill Lycans, and an amn who can possibly act as backup for the priest.

You shouldnt be relying on priest too much though. Priest would have to have correct action every night to make things fair for town. I like the set up, but I kinda don't think the balance is good.

[MattZed]

You shouldnt be relying on priest too much though. Priest would have to have correct action every night to make things fair for town. I like the set up, but I kinda don't think the balance is good.

My first draft was either 0 or 1 starting lycans. I'm not opposed to going back to that. My issue with that was the sheer probability of Werewolf dying early being too much of a landslide for town. I'd rather increase town power.

From the perspective of your concerns, what do you think about a cap on werewolf faction size? (either in terms of just living or living+dead)

I'm thinking, tentatively, max living+dead werewolf faction size at 5?

[ika]

make it that if WW converts, he can not convert nor kill the next night.

ill have a more though lookover when im not tired jsut worked overnihgt

[deathworlds]

make it that if WW converts, he can not convert nor kill the next night.

This approve of this.

[MattZed]

Hmm. I seem to be getting feedback to the effect of "Werewolf OP," mostly over his ability to convert.

Possible resolutions:
1. Cap werewolf faction size. This encourages the Werewolf to be more strategic in his conversions and prevents "win by just converting every night."
2. Add some form of "every other night" restriction to conversions. This accounts for the "double" strength of conversion in that they increase werewolves by one AND decrease town by one.
3. Decrease starting number of Lycanthropes. Maybe even 0? (although I'd rather also decrease player size at that number) This buys the town quite a bit of time before the super-badguy wrecks everything.
3. Increase town power. After all, I do like the idea that the Werewolf is powerful and NEEDS to be hunted. No matter how the game turns out, I want the town to have lynching the Werewolf as their first priority, with lycans being only secondary. I'd probably increase town power by just adding more roles, or just make the current roles more powerful.

4.a Add more power roles. Depending on how OP people think the Werewolf is, the main options I'm considering are adding a confirmable role of some sort, (Journalist?) a town protective (Escort or Bodyguard), and/or a town investigative (Watcher, or I had considered a invest role that can only find the Werewolf, but buffed with some other power such as night immunity)
4.b Buff the existing town roles. In my first draft of these roles, citizens had a one-use "poison" which would cause them to commit suicide that night, but if a werewolf/lycan visited them that night, it would instead kill them. I'm not sure that's actually powerful enough. There is also the option of making the priest into a full-on "Mason Leader" who can recruit purified citizens, possibly even starting with a "mason."

5. Some combination of the above. In particular, I think some combination of methods 3&4 can work well together.
6. Do nothing. It may actually be the case that, despite the concerns of those in this thread, that the setup is balanced as-is. After all, aside from the Werewolf, the werewolf faction has no power roles. We'll need more discussion to find if this is the case. (Orpz, where art thou?)

[deathworlds]

1+2 will balance it I believe

[Cryptonic]

I think you should make it so the Werewolf can convert if Lycan < 2, and has to kill if Lycan > 1

[MattZed]

1+2 will balance it I believe

If adopting 2, I'm not sure how necessary 1 will be. If the faction could only convert every-other like that and still managed to win by just converting, I'm not sure capping their conversions would change their win.

I appreciated 1 and 2 from balance perspectives, but from a design perspective I worry that those options severely dilute the need for town to find the Werewolf himself, instead making any scum lynch roughly as valuable as any other.

[MattZed]

I think you should make it so the Werewolf can convert if Lycan < 2, and has to kill if Lycan > 1

This may actually be my favorite solution; Werewolf is still strong and the most important to kill, but not so strong that he can convert 3 nights and gg.

If I go with this, a day start or one-less-starting-lycan would make more sense so that I don't have a player who dies without being able to have done anything.

[Orpz]

I actually thought Town looked powerful since its power roles are the top-tier town roles. The problem would be the numbers since they still have to get rid of a "Mafia" after killing the "Cult Leader".

You definitely did a good job getting a preliminary sense of balance. I will review your setup in more depth when I return home.

Does Doctor heal prevent conversions?

[MattZed]

I actually thought Town looked powerful since its power roles are the top-tier town roles. The problem would be the numbers since they still have to get rid of a "Mafia" after killing the "Cult Leader".

You definitely did a good job getting a preliminary sense of balance. I will review your setup in more depth when I return home.

I appreciate the feedback! I think, following a small Werewolf nerf, the balance will be in a real nice place. (I'm thinking either cap max living+dead werewolves at 5 or not allow conversions at 3+.)

Does Doctor heal prevent conversions?

In the current iteration, no. My idea was that Priest stops one kind of scum night action, Doctor stops the other.

If two people could stop conversions, then town might get too confident about a confirmed sheriff or jailor, which I don't like. If doctor were able to prevent conversion, I'd probably also make them a roleblocker for balance.

[MattZed]

Updated Werewolf to not be able to convert with 2+ Lycans. Still considering adding a "no more than 5 living+dead can ever be on the werewolf side," but this currently feels like it would be a little too much.

I swear this is not just an attempt to boost my position in the S-FM Queue, (<_<) and feedback, especially on the factional balance, is appreciated.

[Firebringer]

The only problem is.

WHERE ARE THE WEREWOLF HUNTERS (Aka Masons)

How can you have games with cult without masons #Confused.

[MattZed]

The only problem is.

WHERE ARE THE WEREWOLF HUNTERS (Aka Masons)

How can you have games with cult without masons #Confused.

I had considered a "werewolf hunter" role but couldn't get something that preserved werewolf-town balance and made sense thematically. The closest thing that I ever got was a jack-of-all-trades role with a lot of 1-use night abilities. I also considered a super-invest that could check multiple people in one night, but could only detect the original Werewolf. These ideas just weren't cutting it.

However, I certainly wouldn't add masons to this game. Since the cultafia form the only scum, the already-strong masons would be even more powerful. I already gave the town 5 power roles in a 10v3 setup.

[Firebringer]

I had considered a "werewolf hunter" role but couldn't get something that preserved werewolf-town balance and made sense thematically. The closest thing that I ever got was a jack-of-all-trades role with a lot of 1-use night abilities. I also considered a super-invest that could check multiple people in one night, but could only detect the original Werewolf. These ideas just weren't cutting it.

However, I certainly wouldn't add masons to this game. Since the cultafia form the only scum, the already-strong masons would be even more powerful. I already gave the town 5 power roles in a 10v3 setup.

How about a evil masons team that wants to see town dead too? LIKE VAMPIRES!

[MattZed]

How about a evil masons team that wants to see town dead too? LIKE VAMPIRES!

I am not that malevolent.

[MattZed]

After recent games, I worry that the confirmed power roles make my town OP because priest can just kill converted power roles.

To combat this, I think I will also give the werewolves a factional roleblock. (Or maybe just nerf priest)

Thoughts?

[BananaCucho]

This will be the first game where the host will be lynched day 1.

Count me in!

[MattZed]

I was actually going to kill myself N0 as the inciting incident...

[DarknessB]

Let me get the party started early.

-vote MattZed

[Stealthbomber16]

Let me get the party started early.

-vote MattZed

-vote MattZed

Borg Queen.

[MattZed]

Funny, I had also considered making a Borg S-FM.

Someone comment on my idea of balancing by adding a factional roleblock.

[Stealthbomber16]

Funny, I had also considered making a Borg S-FM.

Someone comment on my idea of balancing by adding a factional roleblock.

Its an idea.

[Orpz]

Funny, I had also considered making a Borg S-FM.

Someone comment on my idea of balancing by adding a factional roleblock.

Last time there were Borgs in an FM, it flopped hard and the host canceled the game

(FM22)

[Firebringer]

Last time there were Borgs in an FM, it flopped hard and the host canceled the game

(FM22)

So what you are saying is that we need to bring back Borgs. . . .

[BananaCucho]

4 votes to hammer.

-vote MattZed

[BananaCucho]

Damnit why didn't that work lol

-unvote

[Firebringer]

-vote MattZed

I knew he wasn't Survivor!

[MattZed]

-vote MattZed

I knew he wasn't Survivor!

Firebringer, you always believed in me before.

[Firebringer]

ALright :P

-vote Unvote

[Stealthbomber16]

-vote Satan

[MattZed]

Added the factional roleblock because no one said it was a bad idea.

[Orpz]

Can Werewolf both kill and roleblock in one night?

If Jailor jails Werewolf and doesn't execute, but Werewolf already has two lycanthropes, will Jailor still be converted?

[MattZed]

Can Werewolf both kill and roleblock in one night?

If Jailor jails Werewolf and doesn't execute, but Werewolf already has two lycanthropes, will Jailor still be converted?

Yes. Roleplay-wise, I envisioned the factional roleblock as something where the entire pack goes out and surrounds the victim's house, making them too afraid to perform a night action. Saying the Werewolf can do it was more of a tiebreaking mechanic.

It has been my intention that a jailor failing to execute would be allowed to exceed the limit.

[deathworlds]

This game looks really balanced MattZed!

[MattZed]

This game looks really balanced MattZed!

It does have the appearance of not being a landslide victory for either side, doesn't it?

[deathworlds]

It does have the appearance of not being a landslide victory for either side, doesn't it?

Yeah!

It's really great that the only confirmable role in the game is jailor, which is also more vulnerable to being converted.

[Stealthbomber16]

I agree.

Now for FM Werewolf Assault

do it now

[MattZed]

I agree.

Now for FM Werewolf Assault

do it now

I wonder if I can convince Orpz that I can get 13 signs and start before RLVG would be able to.

[Cryptonic]

You need to make it so the werewolf or lycanthropes need to be chosen for roleblock and kill.
that way, jailor has a way of preventing it

Just my opinion

[MattZed]

You need to make it so the werewolf or lycanthropes need to be chosen for roleblock and kill.
that way, jailor has a way of preventing it

Just my opinion

I mean for the roleblock to act as an anti-roleclaim power. If someone calls jailor, it should be able to mess them up.

As for kills being able to get around jail, that was mostly a balance thing. (I still think my setup is slightly town-favored) It's hard for me to think of how to change it, since jail happens at start of night and the action is factional. I'm not opposed to making it always the "living Alpha wolf" (either WW or earliest converted Lycanthrope) in charge of kill, though.