Day 3: The Avatar and the Firelord

[FM MrSmarter]

More likely, they tailored themselves.

I know a way we can settle this, but we have to get feedback from FM Narks. I was going to prove he was lying today, because he slipped yesterday, but I can't because he didn't give us anything to go on. He was wrong about nobody visiting me, but you won't believe the reason I know that.

Say it then. You are already in a terrible position.

[FM Ganondorf]

Say it then. You are already in a terrible position.

I visited myself.

[FM divemaster127]

Can active mafia members direct the night actions of inactive living mafia members?

[FM MrSmarter]

I visited myself.

What is your "true" role then?

[FM Ganondorf]

What is your "true" role then?

I am a truthseer, and truthseer self visits when checking a post.

Confirm.

[FM Narks]

Role predictions

- Fire Nation -
Ozai (Phoenix King)
Azula (Crown Princess)
Hidden Fire Nation (Consort)
Hidden Fire Nation (Maybe Tailor?)
Hidden Fire Nation (Investigative)
Hidden Fire Nation (Wildcard)


- Neutral Evil -
Combustion Man (Mass Murderer)
Hama (Doppleganger?) (Most likely is saving up charges)

- The Gaang -
Aang (Avatar)
Katara (Doctor)
Sokka (Nurse)
Toph (Truthseer)
Zuko (Vigilante)
Appa (Bus Driver)
Iroh (Grand Lotus)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Blacksmith)
Hidden Gaang (Vigilante?)
Hidden Gaang (Escort / Doctor)
Hidden Gaang (Survivor / Executioner / Beguiler)
Hidden Gaang (Lookout) <----- Me!
Hidden Gaang (Possible Truthseer)
Hidden Gaang (Mayor / Marshall)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (White Lotus?)
Hidden Gaang (White Lotus)

- Ember Island Informant -
Cabbage Merchant (Survivor)

[FM Narks]

I visited myself.

That was stupid...

If someone visits themselves will it appear on lookout / detective feedback?

[FM Narks]

With some of the town roles in my prediction list they will at least be in their full role cards. (if aang or iroh visit them)

[FM Narks]

If a person with multiple roles activated dies, will they all be revealed?

[Forum Mafia GM]

Can active mafia members direct the night actions of inactive living mafia members?

Yes, but only if those mafia members did not submit an action themselves.

[FM Ganondorf]

-vote FM Narks

[Forum Mafia GM]

That was stupid...

If someone visits themselves will it appear on lookout / detective feedback?

Yes.

[Forum Mafia GM]

If a person with multiple roles activated dies, will they all be revealed?

Yes.

[FM Narks]

More likely, they tailored themselves.

I know a way we can settle this, but we have to get feedback from FM Narks. I was going to prove he was lying today, because he slipped yesterday, but I can't because he didn't give us anything to go on. He was wrong about nobody visiting me, but you won't believe the reason I know that.

Look at this you ass.

[FM Narks]

-vote FM Ganondorf

No one is going to vote me xpt your mafiascum buddies.

[FM FalseTruth]

I forgot the FM...

-vote FM Ganondorf

[FM Narks]

You lied yourself into a corner ganon.

[FM Ganondorf]

Look at this you ass.

Tell us then who visited me?

[FM Narks]

Exactly no one visited you last night, not even you.

[FM Narks]

Exactly no one visited you night 1, not even you.

Fixed

[FM Narks]

Well I visited you. But that is besides the point,

I was the only person to visit you, you did not visit yourself n1

[FM Ganondorf]

Exactly no one visited you last night, not even you.

That's exactly the point I'm making I did. I challenge you to get one day of feedback correct, I almost guarantee you won't.

[FM Narks]

Lol you can challenge me to get one day of feedback correct when your actually a truthseer.

[FM Spy]

-vote FM Ganondorf

[FM divemaster127]

Okay, so, about the lack of modkilling...

There are several players in the game who have made no posts despite the game being over a week in, making their chance of participating at all next to zero. Hosts should know very well that afk living town members are worse then useless, since they clog up the towns ability to lynch while providing zero contribution during the day or the night. However, an afk mafia member is much better for the mafia then a dead mafia, since they can still use their night actions while the inactive mafia members are unlikely to be at risk of dying and, even if they do die, require the other factions to spend their killing actions on them.

If the the afks are all town or almost all town, the hosts should know that not modkilling them puts the town at an even greater disadvantage, giving little reason for them not to be modkilled. If it was even three town to one mafia, modkilling all of them would be fairly evenly balanced and neaten out the game. However, if two or more of the afks are scum, not modkilling them would make up for any disadvantage given to the mafia by their inactivity since their night actions can be used with minimal chance of them being killed.

As such, if the afks are mostly or all town, the hosts should modkill them instead of further handicapping the town by keeping them alive. However, if the afks are not getting modkilled, killing them may become a viable option.

[FM Ganondorf]

Okay, so, about the lack of modkilling...

There are several players in the game who have made no posts despite the game being over a week in, making their chance of participating at all next to zero. Hosts should know very well that afk living town members are worse then useless, since they clog up the towns ability to lynch while providing zero contribution during the day or the night. However, an afk mafia member is much better for the mafia then a dead mafia, since they can still use their night actions while the inactive mafia members are unlikely to be at risk of dying and, even if they do die, require the other factions to spend their killing actions on them.

If the the afks are all town or almost all town, the hosts should know that not modkilling them puts the town at an even greater disadvantage, giving little reason for them not to be modkilled. If it was even three town to one mafia, modkilling all of them would be fairly evenly balanced and neaten out the game. However, if two or more of the afks are scum, not modkilling them would make up for any disadvantage given to the mafia by their inactivity since their night actions can be used with minimal chance of them being killed.

As such, if the afks are mostly or all town, the hosts should modkill them instead of further handicapping the town by keeping them alive. However, if the afks are not getting modkilled, killing them may become a viable option.

Agreed.

[FM Narks]

The vig(s) need to target the COMPLETELY inactive players.

Not the semi-inactive players.

[FM divemaster127]

Role predictions

- Fire Nation -
Ozai (Phoenix King)
Azula (Crown Princess)
Hidden Fire Nation (Consort)
Hidden Fire Nation (Maybe Tailor?)
Hidden Fire Nation (Investigative)
Hidden Fire Nation (Wildcard)

I find it interesting that you didn't include blackmailer. The obvious conclusion about Raiden's death is that he is the blackmsmith and he was blackmailed yesterday. Do you know something I don't, or do you just disagree with that assumption?

[FM Narks]

I visited myself.

I find it interesting that you didn't include blackmailer. The obvious conclusion about Raiden's death is that he is the blackmsmith and he was blackmailed yesterday. Do you know something I don't, or do you just disagree with that assumption?

It's the same problem with the tailor hypothesis.

[FM Narks]

I'm sorry, I do not work multi-quote well.

[FM divemaster127]

It's the same problem with the tailor hypothesis.

Explain more. The tailor hypothesis is that Slaol could have been tailored to appear as Toph to frame Ganondorf. Do you believe that Raiden was tailored to appear as blacksmith?

[FM Ganondorf]

Explain more. The tailor hypothesis is that Slaol could have been tailored to appear as Toph to frame Ganondorf. Do you believe that Raiden was tailored to appear as blacksmith?

I think its more along the lines of Raiden and Slaol were both vig shot.

[FM Spy]

I think he means that both Slaol and Raiden were too low profile to attract the attention of any potential blacksmith or tailor.

[FM Ganondorf]

But the obvious blackmail claim in the FAQ is obvious.

[FM Spy]

Tailor or blackmailer, excuse me.

[FM Narks]

I think he means that both Slaol and Raiden were too low profile to attract the attention of any potential blacksmith or tailor.

I think its more along the lines of Raiden and Slaol were both vig shot.

Both are kinda what I was referring too.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Is that so? In that case. Which charge was a lie?

Charge a player at night.
When 2+ charged players interact at night they will die.
When 3+ charged players interact at night their last wills will be wiped.
When 4+ charged players interact at night their roles will be wiped.
When 5+ charged players interact at night there will be no host statement about their deaths.
When 2+ charged players interact they will be uncharged.
You are immune to charge death.

I was charged on Night 1 so we cannot interact with each other or we die.

[FM Ganondorf]

I was charged on Night 1 so we cannot interact with each other or we die.

I don't interact, again I self visit to check a post.

[FM Narks]

I don't interact, again I self visit to check a post.

If you actually were a truthseer.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

So what proof is there that FM Ganondorf is scum? Not hypothetical proof but physical/call out proof?

[FM Narks]

The fact that on n1 he did not visit himself / take no action.

[FM divemaster127]

We know two things for sure about Raiden.

1) He was indirectly claiming blackmailed TPR yesterday.

2) He appeared as a blacksmith in the graveyard.


The possible explanations for this are as follows...

A) He really is the blacksmith and really was blackmailed. This seems the most obvious and likely conclusion.

B) He is scum and was tailored to appear as the blacksmith, with his blackmailed claim being a lie. While it is possible, I find it extremely unlikely that scum would correctly predict his death, tailor him and then choose blacksmith as his fake role.

C) Raiden really was the blacksmith, but doing an incredibly weird and risky gambit. While very strange moves have been made in previous games, I am having a really hard time believing a town aligned player would fake blackmailed.



Raiden being the blacksmith and the existence of a blackmailer seems by far the most probable conclusion, so I am still interested why blackmailer didn't appear on Narks' role list and its existence is being brought into much question.

[FM Narks]

We know two things for sure about Raiden.

1) He was indirectly claiming blackmailed TPR yesterday.

I never caught that.

[FM Crimson]

when a truthseer "checks" a post are they "visitng" anyone? and if so, who?

I just got home from work

[FM TheJackofSpades]

The fact that on n1 he did not visit himself / take no action.

And that would make him scum because?

[FM Ganondorf]

And that would make him scum because?

If his lead were true it would mean I'm not truthseer, which I am.

[FM Narks]

He claims truthseer, which visits him/herself whenever they check a post.

[FM divemaster127]

So what proof is there that FM Ganondorf is scum? Not hypothetical proof but physical/call out proof?

Gandondorf claimed Toph the truthseeker, a character which turned up in the graveyard today. Additionally, Narks who claimed Lookout, says that no one visited Ganondorf on a previous night even though Ganondorf should have appeared to the Lookout since truthseeker is a self target, meaning that one of them is not being honest.

It is also worth mentioning that this is an FM. You are meant to read the threads and realize this yourself. If the town only ever lynches when there is 100% conclusive evidence of someone being scum, the town would be disadvantaged since they would have a very hard time killing scum as quickly as scum killed town. Ganondorf does not have a 100% chance of being scum. However, there is more then enough evidence pointing at a fairly high likelihood of him lying about his truthseeker claim to warrant a bandwagon and possible lynch against him.

[FM AscendedOne]

I was either bussed, or there is two of my power role.

Your responses to this post will determine if you are scum.