New Investigator/Framer update

[Voss]

Thoughts?

What happened?

[Elixir]

There was a lot of other things changed but to summarize investigator

> Every role now has a list of crimes they can commit.
> Once they do an action they will have that crime marked against them if an investigator checks them
> Framers give their target a random crime that sticks with them
> Crimes range from tresspassing and soliciting to murder and conspiricy

[MichaelScott]

The investigator revamp is awesome and it would be nice to keep it that way. Works better and is more fun!

[Elixir]

Glad to hear you like it.

We're still compiling feedback on the changes and there may be a few small changes but the new system is here to stay.

[cattack]

This is a pretty hard nerf to the investigator really. I can see how this might be easier with last wills and some roles are easier to spot this way but it's special power to spot the godfather is pretty much gone now. With the new way, a immune to detection gf/dh would show up as a sheriff/citizen/doctor/amnesiac/witch/jester/executioner. Which is a large group of possible roles.

The arsonist also suffers from this change I think as it is the only role that gives Arson as crimes committed. Unless only after he ignited

> Framers give their target a random crime that sticks with them

Nerf. Framers will love that. Will Framer also stick for sheriff clues? Or only for investigator? What kind of crimes can we expect cause I'd assume you don't want it to lead to a town role crimes.

I got mixed feelings about this change. On the one hand it is refreshing and somewhat easier once you know what role gives which feedback. The fact that you are just useless at finding the gf/dh, which used to be the reason saves use a sheriff and a investigator. Sheriff gets normal mafia, the investigator gets the dragon head. That just clearly a nerf to town

It's also harder for new players to understand this role as it doesn't give a role anymore and if they don't realize they need to read ALL the roles on top on the screen to see which fits. He is even more useless

[Barmank]

I've got mixed feelings about that as well. First of all, it's indeed huge nerf for invest. Just an example of my lw last day:
n1 13 nothing, n2 1 trespasser, n3 10 kidnapping, n4 10 trespasser, n5 14 trespasser, n6 8 trespasser.
That info doesn't help much, implying that among those trespassers were arsonist, spy, consigliere and lookout. Personally, I can live with invest being weak, but I think that this role became even less newb-friendly than coroner, which is not acceptable for core town role, that is present in most setups. Also, I find it questionable why jailor roles remain obvious in that crimes model.
Another problem is that you most likely wont notice, if you were witched or target being switched by bus driver, because trespassing crime fits to nearly half of existing roles.

[Slaol]

Investigator needed a nerf to be honest. Revenant himself told me months ago that it never turned out how he intended and the impact it has on games, forcing players into specific claims, can be seen at all times. This will hold onto a sort of the grouping effect but much less directly. As well, immunity to detection will finally be that. Godfathers immunity was supposed to pair him with citizens but there are never citizens, so it just outed him.
Investigator used to be blatantly the best Investigative role at all times. Now it is just another tool.

[Helios]

I can just aggree with Slaol there, since it isnt called detection immune, just so you need a invest to find him, aswell Consiglieres now cant claim invest anymore wich nerfs mafia a bit aswell (espacially a few days after the patch when some guys didnt realise the change, like some ppl didnt knew till now the new invest pairings and said that doc is in a clue with sk^^).

[Cryptonic]

(espacially a few days after the patch when some guys didnt realise the change, like some ppl didnt knew till now the new invest pairings and said that doc is in a clue with sk^^).

used that to get lynched as jester countless times.

[Helios]

used that to get lynched as jester countless times.

I know it isnt bad (used it myself sometimes), sadly the guys i met and said that were townies like Doc, Citizen and even a Sheriff lol. Well we wont go off topic now. The Framer change is just to balance out the invest change i think, since it wouldnt make sense anymore to frame targets with random roles to invests. (Didnt looked at him, since the patch thought.)

[dooglrig]

is there a list of the new inv results?

[Dark.Revenant]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&usp=sharing