FMXX: day 2

[Yayap]

Each post will have 1 page of 50 posts ... I remember from fm3 that the old forums had a character cap and I dont know if that is still the case here.
Also Vornksr is welcome to edit these posts and add his thoughts (in a different color than my own).

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Day II: Fires of War


You ever been to Ascension Parish kid?

Biggest Cemetary in all of New Marais there. Gets bigger every day. Got bigger back then too, what with the conduits fighting the militia and all that.

They found two people were missing when they met the following day; expecting them to be Conduits that tried to flee the scence they instantly went on a manhunt.

The half that went to find FM Tamiyo saw smoke bellowing from behind her home. Rushing around they saw what looked like some form of ritualistic sacrifice; Tamiyo already dead but still on fire, burning away. Even after the fire was extinguished not enough remained of her for anyone there to decipher if she was anything of note, or if she was carrying anything on her person. Her house was empty too... someone had been in there however looking for something.

The other half went to find FM Gideon Jura.

You know... I always read the death reports from these things and can hardly picture what they describe. He was frozen from the waist down and then they smashed that side with something, shattering it to pieces. I assume while he screamed they shot him in the chest. The report said he bled out... dunno where from but damn man thats an awful way to go. He was found next to a bus... in the bus was ID that matched him, so it looks like he was just a simple Bus Driver... a man doing his job getting people from A to B...

Was he meant to be an example? Is this what the Militia brought on themselves?

It didn't deter them at all, infact it rallied them more to get back to the town house.

Once there people started throwing blame and pointing fingers all across the room.

Someone wasn't walking out of here today.

It was time for Martial Justice.

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Role List:

Cole MacGrath [MacGrath]
Lucy Kuo [MacGrath]
Zeke Dunbar [MacGrath]
Nix [MacGrath]

Conduit [Vermaak 88]
Conduit [Vermaak 88]
Conduit [Vermaak 88]
Conduit [Vermaak 88]

Soul of The Beast
Sasha (Reaper Leader)
Random Killing Conduit
Random Conduit
Random Conduit

Joseph Bertrand
Cop
Investigator
Extremist
Medic
Detainer
Priest
Coroner
Random Power Militia
Random Power Militia
Random Power Militia
Random Power Militia
Random Power Militia
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member


There is 1 more role in the list than players due to 1 role being cleaned

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Graveyard:

FM Tamiyo(???)[Night 1]: Corpse was too burned to make any form of identification. House trashed.
FM Gideon Jura(Bus Driver)[Night 1]: Frozen from the waist down and broken into pieces with a hammer. Shot twice in the chest. Bled to death.

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The Day will End and at the Following Time: Day Ends
It will Take 18 votes to hammer.
Vote with the following command: [vote]FM Name[/vote]

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THE BEAST IS 1109 MILES FROM NEW MARAIS

---

Yayap: So now night 1 has happened, the first set of kills have hit and the game really starts.
Analysis on the first wave of kills is that it was 2 people that weren't really noteworthy from day 1, which tells me that either
1- mafias decided to random their n1 kills
2- mafia may have spotted something that I didn't
3- mafia aren't analyzers and didn't see the pro-town targets I saw
4- bus driver was not the intended target (meaning he swapped himself with someone who was)


Being n1, option 1 seemed to be the more likely to me.

Also of note is the first cleaning, one of the mafias have decided to get that going before knowing anything or even eliminating the coroner, this could be to lure the coroner out before using the rest of the cleans or just because they wanted to..

The last piece of information is the location of the beast which allows us to set a timeline when he will arrive.

Hey.

Nothing happened to me last night.

Still want to cram a lynch down this guy's throat.

At least until he starts doing things.

-vote FM Parcher

I think I summarized the case against him yesterday. Should be evident if you read his posts.

Dispite this post being rushed, it gives us a starting point on something to talk about in the starting hours, also because you were mounting a case against him the day before, I cannot discount the possibility that you might be an investigative role that checked him during the night and just don't want to reveal.

Good morning duelists! And good morning America!

SOME TERRORIST FROZE ME LAST NIGHT! ME! She might as well have frozen America!


There were some things I wanted to discuss yesterday but I didn't want to help the vermakk pick an optimal setup.

I'm not sure that Nicol Bolas is scum. He posted his suggestion for what the vermakk could pick but I feel as though he was convincing them to pick a suboptimal setup. Specifically I think the vermakk needed to pick an enforcer. If any of them are converted to a reaper, the reapers will immediately know all the remaining members of the vermakk and any information they have gathered. Sasha should already be the number one target for cole's conduits for this reason but without an enforcer she should be the number one target for the vermakk too.

I feel that if our priest succeeded in converting our militizen that it is extremely likely that the vermakk do not have an enforcer as town will then have double the priests for confirming cit claims.

For the remaining vermaak roles, there is no chance they don't have a kidnapper. Next I feel that a consig, willbender combo is their best bet. As soon as the consign finds someone the will bender can safely attract every night it immediately becomes a superior option to consort.

The forth is likely enforcer but if its not, my guess is another willbender but possibly a sapper or disguiser. An extra kill or an extra double roleblock.

Now lets take back America from these terrorists!

This tells me that mafia are paying attention and did identify Meshuvel as a potential town player, also since the docs didn't have any specific target that needed healing, Meshuvel was a decent choice so mafia blocking him instead of trying to kill him is a rather good choice. I doubt an escort would have blocked Meshuvel.

So he did see the omissions in my list for vermaak, but kept quiet about them. I'm reading Meshuvel as a more analytical player that knows when to keep quiet and let things play out. He also has studied the setup and knows good roles for vermaak to take.

Praise the Sun that nothing happened to me last night.

Considering that he is my #1 pick for being scum right now, because of how much he wanted to PR/citizen hunt day 1, nothing happening to him does not surprise me.

Invalid match, but I'll defend myself anyways.

Yesterday was Day 1 No Lynch, there were no Night 0 actions, and 40+ player's worth of posts to read. That requires too much of my effort for too little reward. So I chose not to give a fuck that day.

My read on him being a strong player rather than a circle jerk troll is becoming stronger, the use of expletives however did not fit with the 2 peoples personality that I was looking for (Vornksr and Clem) so I have to assume that he may be someone that I have not taken notice of in previous games or have not played with. In either case, I must read and translate his posts in the similar manner I would read and translate Vornksr posts.

How do you see Ajani? Is he part of the light or part of the darkness?

And here we go again with the meta. Current meta is that asking other people for reads on someone is considered pro-town, I don't and here is why: it encourages PR and COM hunting more than scumhunting. If someone has a good viewpoint on someone who has been scummy and does not have a textual basis for that outlook, its usually because they know something that the rest don't. Scum will pick up on the subtleties of the slips more than town will because the scum know who is on their team and what actions they did. They are on the lookout for PRs and cits, getting someone to spill their reads will either show that you know nothing about someone that isn't obvious or that you do. If you do, its most likely because you had interactions with this person at night and are hinting that you are a PR, most likely an investigative PR if you have a opinion on someone that goes against the grain.

Considering that I don't remember any posts by him, Darkness

I didn't read too much into this because I too am still having trouble telling people apart, unless you did something memorable, I dont know who you are yet and I have to look back on all your posts to remember.

I have no illumination or information on the subject of the neutral killer. Speculation on his dark identity may be random. What may be rays of light is speculation on the role.

There was no kill from this shade. It means one of three possibilities for us of the light to understand how he works.
The serial or spree killer may have not acted for whatever dark reason of his. Alternatively, if there is such a twisted individual, the spree killer may have been shown the light of inactivity.
The light of healing may have shone down upon the intended target.
The role may require inertia to start his reign of darkness.

Only a small ray of light is shown to us today on this matter. I believe and hope that more will come soon.

Translation: Neutral killer did not kill + a few possibilities why.
Do you give any insight about the matter, no .. which means you are either concealing information about the no neutral kill or you dont have a clue.

Hmm, I certainly did not expect that we'll lose our Bus Driver first. Usually roles like this are very crucial in defeating Mafia, hmm? But with the most important protecive role gone, we could be in a good trouble.
Hmm... It hurts my head just to think myself. Well, there is nothing much I can do right now. Maybe you got us a good lead, hmm?

Yes, we lost the bus driver.. ok so you read the opening post and have posted to let me know that you are online. No mention about you being bussed so this post doesn't add anything to my notes.

Yo. Nothing happened to me last night.

Straight to the point... for now that is all I need to know from you.

Nothing happened to me either, to get that out of the way.

I don't consider FM Parcher a good target for today because from the way he said things it looks like he just really dislikes a no lynch day 1. There are better targets than someone like him for today I'd say. Though who it should be, I cannot really say.

First person to respond to Vraskas fos. From what I can tell, I agree that Parcher doesn't have any text based slips, however I still don't know what role Vraska is and thus don't know the full extend of his read on Parcher.

Nothing happened to me either, to get that out of the way.

I don't consider FM Parcher a good target for today because from the way he said things it looks like he just really dislikes a no lynch day 1. There are better targets than someone like him for today I'd say. Though who it should be, I cannot really say.

Who do you suggest we pursue this day? Who is hiding in the dark?

Filler and unneeded pointing out the obvious.... still reading him as scum.

Ugin is my FOS target. The fact that he wanted to weaken the jailor out of fear he might be converted makes me this he is scum

-vote FM Ugin

Ok, this is a follow up from day 1, Ugin was one of the few (2 I think) who argued against a jailor plan. Meshuvel being rbed, I can't determine anything other about his role.

I'd also like to discuss what we should do with Elspeth Tirel, the person who claimed Witch. In my opinion, if we can't agree on a lynch target, then we should get rid of the Witch in order to eliminate an unknown variable.

I am also very curious to see if anything at all happened to Elspeth... so far, all that I know is that mafia didn't kill her, neutral killer failed or didn't kill (possibly hit immune?), vig didn't shoot or hit immune. Most likely consort didn't block him.

Haha, apparently the consorts/strippers in this game are outfitted with freeze rays, because I received feedback of being "frozen" last night, which it says could have been done by Lucy Kuo, a Stripper, or a Consort.

I guess that means I was roleblocked?

Who are you again? Had to go look up your posts.. oh yea, someone who is busy and wont be on till tuesday - might explain why you got roleblocked .. could be from either faction - scum thinking you are a PR that wants to get more info into the late game or town thinking you are trying to slip under the radar.

Hmm... Elspeth Tirel? I vaguely start to remember. I believe she introduced herself as "Sabrina the Teenage Bitch" yesterday, hmm?

Thx for the reminder of who this person is - other than that, this post doesn't add much.

Not all killers are of the darkness. A killer who is of the light ought to bring this witch into her darkness of death. I do not think there is any need to lynch this shade.

Full out directing of the Vig/jailor - you are looking scummier in my eyes every time you post.

Well, you haven't given me any real reason to remove my vote, due to your lack of still doing anything.

Riddle me this, Parcher - if you're motivated to actually defend yourself, then how come you aren't.. scumhunting? Building cases? Asking questions? Interested in doing things to Figure Things Out?

If you genuinely think there's a superior target, make a real case against them. But I just don't see a better option than you right now.

Although the reasoning behind the Fos is weak, I still think Vraska knows something that he is concealing.

How do you see Ajani? Is he of the dark or of the light?

Why are you so interested in Ajani? He hasn't even posted yet day 2. Do you know something that we dont? Possibly... Still don't like the meta PR/cit scumhunting tactics but I can't use it as a scumtell since the meta says its pro-town so more townies do it now without realizing it.

Still think she should be policy vigged or jailed. Not worth the lack of information, or the possible risk of a Jester, if we lynch her and she flips Witch.

This is slightly.. out of game-ish, but I really hate her playstyle. Mafia's a team game, and her playstyle is wholly self-centered - making them game about them, making them the center of attention.

Pretty miffed that a hypothetical vig didn't vig her last night, given that they have three shots. And... hm.

Vigs can dayvig.

Well, if there's a hypothetical vig out there, she'd be an excellent target.

Supports Domri directing vig/jailor. "hypothetical vig" meaning he either did not read the obvious extremist on the role list or is just trying to make others that didnt' read the role list think so .. I'm leaning more towards he didn't see it... and that Vraska is not the Vig. Mention of the jester is a possibility.... except that I know that I'm a jester and I don't think that there are 2 jesters. As for hating the playstyle - you are gonna hate me.

I would prefer to give a vig a chance to kill her, he strat is so unlikely to win for a witch even with our hesitation that I don't think she is witch

More support for the vig to shoot.. did not expect this from Meshuvel. Him thinking that she is not the witch but still supports the vig taking her out is interesting as well.. knowing that Meshuvel was roleblocked. Unless he lied about the roleblock - and is one of the scums..... but my gut still says he is town.

How do you see Ajani? Is he of the dark or of the light?

Well, let's see, shall we?

Hi guys! I'm going to be reading through the setup real quick again. We must kill the Nazis and not the bioterrorists. The UN can deal with the chemical weapon stuff.

Reads through the setup, typical check in post. Not sure what he's meaning by "Nazis" or "bioterrorists".

Hey guys, I'm back and I'm going to read through the current day posts... @Nissa Revane's post. Can you please tell me why you would mark a whole bunch of people scum just by the fact that they said they were going away or made a little trolly post?

I mean, this can be a bit of a scum-impulse catch, because he didn't take the time to read through Nissa's post. Kind of picking low-hanging fruit. Can't discern much from it.

6 members viewing - Boss = 5, Are we all lurking? Seriously, there are a lot of trolly people here and I don't approve of it. I don't care if you like it or not, we WILL lose if you keep this up. When I come back, somebody better have a constructive response to this:

How would you mark people scummy in this game and why?

Should the people talking in third person and making trolly posts be marked scummy?

Dislike this. He asks two questions that aren't really good at all - in fact, they're rather bad. Marking people scummy is... not helping you figure out the gamestate at all, and talking in third person/trolly posts are simply common sense.

1) We should not be marking people scummy based on the fact that they made scummy posts. Even though they might get annoying, it might become a useful tool for us to use later on in the game when they might get recruited into the Reapers. However, we should be basing it on text analysis and some kind of evidence that puts the person accused at a tight spot, and maybe they'll slip then. Until that happens, I don't believe we have room for random lynches.

2) Above.

This is pretty bad. He says that "we should not be marking people scummy because they're scummy" and "we should base it on text analysis", and those two statements contradicts each other. Also, proposing no lynching until our power roles find the scum is a stupid idea.

Don't worry friend, for I have just returned from school... where they blocked only this FM thread. Which sucks. Anyways, I'm still reading (skimming), so I'll get back to you guys. I also propose that NOBODY role claims. All that role claim from this point, I will consider them scum. No role claiming = No lying. No lying = No chaos. No chaos = Better chance of winning. I hope you follow this commandment. I will tell Noah to add it to the Ten Commandments, and I don't care if you're not Jewish.

Says that everyone should not role claim, which I'll be holding onto him for this. Kind of a slippery slope argument (if you're the Mayor, role reveal, Ajani considers them scum).

How do we plan to find the Soul of the Beast?

Asks a question, but it's mostly again common sense. Tell me this - do you think SotB gives out specific "SotB" tells?

(Hint: They don't.)

1- day 1 posts are trolly by most people.. not just scum
2- talking in 3rd person is more of a COM thing rather that scum thing
other than that... there is nothing really to analyze on day 1 in Ajanis posts... nothing really stands out which is what has got me puzzeled about Domris interest in her.

So my final conclusion of Ajani is kind of scummish, which should be self-evident by the pseudo-case I wrote on him. I'd be willing to vote him but I want Parcher to do things first.

Still holding onto Parcher - still hints to me that you are an investigative role that found scum.

I would prefer to give a vig a chance to kill her, he strat is so unlikely to win for a witch even with our hesitation that I don't think she is witch

Well, she just comes in and claims a anti-town role then leaves. Another Mazzy in the works, I believe.

If she's town gambitting then it's a stupid move, though would prefer if the dayvig happened at the tail end of the day so that she has a chance to claim her real role, if she's town.

But would support shooting her if she continues this "strategy" of being blatantly anti town. If she, say, actually does what I'm doing on Day 2 then I would support her claiming real role, if she's town.

I agree that its a stupid move, but giving her time to explain herself is protown.

Ugin is my FOS target. The fact that he wanted to weaken the jailor out of fear he might be converted makes me this he is scum

-vote FM Ugin

Don't know why you're doing this.

Town and scum can have a fear of being converted, and besides, look at the bigger picture.

He was the most active poster on Day 1, and he actively tried to drive the game forward by asking questions and scumhunting.

I mean.

Ugin notices this and thinks you should explain why.

Ugin thinks you should explain post 15 then. Ugin also finds it odd how you become defensive after being called out. He notices the sun is setting. He thinks it will be gone in about 2 hrs 45 mins. Ugin is glad that he got to meet many people. Ugin starts to scribble a heart and pass them out to all the people he likes.

Ugin wonders why you care about that.

And you're voting him, over, say.. the people who randomly voted for someone and lurked with the mess of other lurking lurkers and having no attention put on themselves.

You're smarter than this, Meshuvel.

Make a case against someone where there is actually something they've done that hasn't helped town.

Well, I know why Meshuvel is going after Ugin, and I'm guessing Vraska does not since he is pre-occupied trying to get a lynch going on Parcher.

I like the case against Ajani because it's worth pursuing.

Also yeah, I agree on vigging the Witchclaimer on the condition that Vraska has given.

New post: Aaand I once again agree with Vraska about the Ugin vote.

The case against Ajani being nothing but day 1 spam and trollyness? More support on the vig shot.. (I wonder how the vig handles peer pressure, if no one gives a valid argument why not to shoot Elspeth, inexperienced players usually cave and take the shot)
And another person who didn't see the reasons why Meshuvel is Fosing Ugin.

Vraska you seem to see Ajani in the same shade of darkness that I do. Thank you.

I am the Sheriff. I have found a shade. Specifically a Reaper. Glissa Sunseeker is of that darkness you all call cult.

She defended Nichol Bolas in subtle manners that seem to be damage control. May I be so grossly incandescent to be accurate. I checked Glissa and not the dark Nichol because Nichol is framerbait. I could not trust any result on him because so many found him to have little light. I was expecting a mafia result but was surprised.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

This fine, bright day, I ask her who she finds dark. She does not answer my question but wishes to discuss the matter of the claimed witch shade. She does not know who to find shady. I believe that she was part of one group of shades but was recently corrupted. Her lynch can help show connections between many shades.

So the person I find the scummiest is claiming sheriff with a guilty on the highest priority target a sheriff can find... This really screams executioner or scum trying to look as an executioner to me rather than sheriff. Me being framer bait was obvious... so no points there from me. And Glissa not knowing who to find scummy is 100% normal at this state of the game.
So my options are:
1- go along with him because I dont care since I'm jester
2- oppose him and possibly deny the textbook executioner play

As for a towns point of view, this shuts down most of the other scumhunting efforts and getting any kind of reads will be difficult from this point on.

I like the case against Ajani because it's worth pursuing.

Also yeah, I agree on vigging the Witchclaimer on the condition that Vraska has given.

New post: Aaand I once again agree with Vraska about the Ugin vote.

If you like the case against Ajani, then.. why aren't you voting him?

(I would, but I need to see Parcher post meaningful content)

Just because someone thinks that something is worth pursuing doesn't mean that they have to jump onto a train and run after only that one lead.. patience can lead to more information. And in this case, the case against Ajani is weak ... its just because there isn't any other obvious scum lead that makes that one worth looking into.

If you were hiding a cult check in your pants, how come you asked everyone to comment on Ajani? Shouldn't you ask people to comment on Glissa, instead, to find her cult buddies?

Ah, maybe I can get some answers as to why so much interest was placed on Ajani... its the one thing that doesn't quite fit into my executioner read. Is domri pulling a scum gambit?

I wish to put my target at ease, make her think that I was focusing another dark individual. I do find Ajani to be shady but my prime target today was Glissa.

Regardless, I would like Glissa to comment.

Not voting her yet, because an early Glissa lynch would be unproductive to the thread (everyone sheeps vote on Glissa, day ends with little information gotten)

I mean.

If I was the Sheriff, I would make a case on Glissa without revealing I was the Sheriff.

To, y'know.

Protect myself, since you're probably going to be a roleblock/kill target if Glissa flips cult.

And get the desired result.

Mounting an argument on Glissa right now was near impossible with only day 1 troll posts.

There was no case against her based on text alone. She is dark but not dark enough for a lynch. There needs to be some enlightenment to get the masses moving.

Correct... but now you have to convince me that you aren't scum yourself.

Hmm? M-hmm! I remember that Sasha is not immune to detection, so maybe you hit the bullseye, hmm?

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

Did you just look that up or you trying to contribute something? Whatever... sheep train starts now.

Ok.

-vote Glissa Sunseeker

Question time: Why did you feel it necessary to reveal your role so early to push a lynch on someone who you could have just as easily FoS'd based on ignoring questions, lurking, and active sheeping with others? I am asking because early sheriff reveals usually leads to useless sheriffs due to Consorts/Witches/etc which are in this game.

As explained above... so this is really just useless questions and shows me that Baltrice and Vraska both didn't analyze that mounting a text based argument that would lead to a lynch on Glissa was near impossible.

There was a textual case against her. You just had to put it all together.

Not one that would lead to a lynch without claiming. Anyone with common sense ignores the troll posts from day 1 when it comes to mounting a case against someone that NEEDS to be lynched. Meaning... you have no support if you try to mount the case on that alone.

I didn't realize that one of your questions was directed at me, sorry.

Though it does greatly surprise me that you got the feedback that I am part of the Reapers. Since a Framer is unlikely to have been on me, I wonder if you are trying to pull a gamble? After all, the reasons you have given alongside your feedback are sound though misplaced.

To Vraska: I was preparing my food and wanted to get started on eating. However, I will wait until the case on me is over before I'll vote Ajani.

Poor defense.. your chance at exposing how scummy Domri is is slipping away quickly. "wondering" if someone is pulling a gamble is horribad! If you know that you are not cult ... then you KNOW that he is lying. You need to defend yourself being convinced that those are fact and not up for debate.

As for the msg to Vraska... food preparation is irrelevant to typing vote tags or not in a post.

Because I feel that this information is worth my life. I hope to be a beacon of light with information flowing from the actions leading up to the end of this bright day.

Even though I still think that you are scum... Glissas poor defense might convince me that she is some type of scum as well.

Well, I could build a case against her if I was motivated, doing a quick skim of her posts.

But most likely, Ockham's Razor, from our great William of Ockham, says that you're probably right and got a cult check.

-vote Glissa Sunseeker

Who are your suspects after Glissa and Ajani?

Or.. we can have the dayvig vig Glissa, and free up our lynch to see if you're lying or you're right.

I might like that idea better.

Thoughts?

Since when does day vig give instant results? It was always at the end of the day in Elixirs previous FMs and nothing has shown that something has changed .. so I'll assume you didn't play or read FM5.
Also... directing the Vig to waste his day shot is a terrible idea and is scummy.

And yeah, sorry Baltrice.

You don't get townpoints for repeating the same questions I had.

You both dont get any town points at all from me.

Why did you decide to wait with the vote on me but then gave a completely different reason to justify your vote now?

You are defending yourself against the wrong arguement... Its Domri's credibility you need to destroy, not Vraskas... he is just sheep following Domri.

Told you, wanted to see your reaction.

I think you should claim now.

Shooting in the bright of day. What imagery! I like it.

The dark ones on my list are Nichol and Glissa, Jace and Dack, and Ajani. I do not know how to place Ajani. I believe he is mafia but I cannot figure out his color. Nichol and Glissa are probably of Cole's Conduits. Jace and Dack are probably of Vermaak 88. There are more but I shall keep them hidden away for my last will.

So you get a cult reading on Glissa but still think she is green mafia... yea, that makes alot of sense. You must think that she is a culted green... Then you have Jace, who I thought was protown for stopping the citizen/Pr hunt day 1 and Dack who is nothing but an analyzer........ and I also find it funny that you have Dack and myself on opposite teams since I supported him more than anyone day 1. And you have no clue how to place Ajani, well at least that is true.

And more derpiness about day vig shot... sigh... although this would benefit me if I don't have to worry about the vig shooting me during the day.

Hmm, I believe that he revealed himself early just to eliminate our biggest threat as soon as possible, even at the expense of being permanently "frozen" afterwards. I like that determination, Cop, or... Sheriff, or, hmm... Domri?

But with our Bus Driver dead, what will you do afterwards, hmm?

Purpose of this post = ?

And yeah, sorry Baltrice.

You don't get townpoints for repeating the same questions I had.

O.o

You assume I'm looking for any.
I typed up my questions, posted, got the stupid new posts error, reposted, then read back.
In any case inflating self worth isn't a town tell ;)

Its not a tell of alignment but is a personality tell.

I wish to illuminate one annoying part of the voting system. You must use the whole account name. FM is part of that name.

This was actually something that helped me.. not because I didn't know about the voting system but because I wasn't looking at everyones votes and hadn't noticed that both Baltrice and Vraska didn't add the "FM" in the name.
This is more against Vraska since he demonstrated that he knows that he needs the FM when he voted Parcher in the first post.

I definitely did not forget about this game. Nothing happened to me last night, I believe. I haven't read D1 and tbh I cba to either so time to analysa two pages worth of stuff.

Now lets take back America from these terrorists!

This post was bad, you spend it waffling on Nicol Bolas ("I'm not sure he is scum" - is he town? Is he leaning scum? What is your exact opinion on him) or speculating who's going to be culted and what roles scum have and not actually FoSing anyone or doing any sort of actual scumhunting. Then, almost an hour later, you drop a vote as if it's an afterthought instead of a primary concern.

-vote FM Meshuval

At least until he starts doing things.

Why aren't you harping on at me then considering I didn't do squat day 1? His response was terrible though.

I third/fourth/Xth the idea of vigging the witch. Lynching is fine too.

Glissa is scum and I will sheep sheriff if need be.

1st post of the game, very possible that you didn't read day1 or simply skimmed over it, so I wont judge you on that.
If you didn't read day 1, then your analysis on Meshuvel will be more scummy than my own since it was day 1 that got him on my town side. Also I really like how you expose how weak Vraskas Fos is against Parcher. More peer pressure on the vig .. good.
Now for something completely different - Liliana says Glissa is scum but is voting someone else, I find this more productive than just sheeping sheriff claims.. because if the sheriff claim proves to be false, what ever information that Liliana uncovers will most likely be the next possible train.
Sheeping sheriff gains nothing while looking for other leads while holding onto the possibility that he can be a sheriff leads to much more. It should be noted that its neither protown or antitown to look for other leads... both factions need more info.
Another thing of note is manual quotes, meaning she typed them out instead of hitting the quote/multiquote button.. usually done from a phone instead of a computer.

As for first impressions - I'm reading Liliana as a strong analytical player, possibly Vornksr. I'll be keeping an eye on further developments.

Hmm, I believe that he revealed himself early just to eliminate our biggest threat as soon as possible, even at the expense of being permanently "frozen" afterwards. I like that determination, Cop, or... Sheriff, or, hmm... Domri?

But with our Bus Driver dead, what will you do afterwards, hmm?

I enjoy the filler nature of your post.
Would you take a look at Glissa response me and see what it is all about?

Glad I'm not the only one seeing that his post contributes nothing.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

To fix an error

Since it is requested: I am a Medic. As such, as I said before, I believe the case against me to be a justified gamble.

I healed Bealtrice, by the way.

Aaaaand... you just sealed your fate to the graveyard.

O.o

You assume I'm looking for any.
I typed up my questions, posted, got the stupid new posts error, reposted, then read back.
In any case inflating self worth isn't a town tell ;)

Fair, but to me it looked like you were repeating my questions.

I think Glissa should claim and the hypothetical vig should shoot her via PM.

Good grief... what is with this town trying to direct the vig to do everything.

[Helz]

I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

-Edit. I asked the staff about a character cap a while back and they said there was not one but it was something they considered putting in place.

[Yayap]

Day 2 posts 51-100

Don't hammer.

Glissa claim.

Uhh... no comment? I might have to reevaluate my read on her being a strong player....

I would greet this gathering kindly. Just Checking in and rereading through some of the past posts.

Guessing you haven't read day yet...

-vote FM Gliss Sunseeker

The tone of her post isn't annoyed enough for a real Medic.

​Pretty much spot on reasoning, isn't scummy because Domri says so but because of how she defended herself.. except you misspelled her name.

Fair, but to me it looked like you were repeating my questions.

I think Glissa should claim and the hypothetical vig should shoot her via PM.

She has. She claimed Medic and stated she healed me.
However I am not sure if it is valid considering she misspelled my name.

​Looking at the post times, I already know that he was writing his post while she claimed, but many people feel the need to bring it up.. what ever... No idea what is getting at about the claim not being valid because of spelling.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

tone of her claim*

Fixing spelling before anyone says anything - eliminates false vote in my notes.

Why aren't you harping on at me then considering I didn't do squat day 1? His response was terrible though.

I third/fourth/Xth the idea of vigging the witch. Lynching is fine too.

Glissa is scum and I will sheep sheriff if need be.

Your first post actually has content! Excellent.


The answer to your question should be fairly obvious? Tell me if you want me to actually answer, but it's pretty obvious.

Where is my popcorn, this could get interesting and reveal if Vraska is a PR or not.

Don't hammer?
What is with your eyesight Liliana? She is L-15

When reading from a phone, thread looks like it has much more posts than there really are.... and checking the vote count is not easy, and if you are using an app to read the forums, vote counter doesn't show up.

What Medic claims herself at L-15 anyway, hmm?

Umm.. I think if I look hard enough I can find a few... but even more noteworthy is that the people are TELLING her to claim and the current meta is that if you dont claim, you are scum. (I'll deal with that bad meta when the time comes)

Cut sorry.


Not sure as to the legitimacy of that claim though, medic could be seen as an easy ticket out of a lynch.


Dunno why I was worried about hammer though lol.

-vote FM Gliss Sunseeker


The tone of her post isn't annoyed enough for a real Medic.

It's because I realize that my attempt to be active looks scummy as hell.


Oh and I can ask if it was valid or not Baltrice, I mean it was close enough but even if it didn't work, it's atleast what I intended to do.

Maybe you should realize that your attempts to defend yourself are scummier than the initial sheriff claim..

Your first post actually has content! Excellent.

The answer to your question should be fairly obvious? Tell me if you want me to actually answer, but it's pretty obvious.

It might have been more noteworthy to have directed more response to her suspicion on Meshuval which was rather well summerized for a Day One type FoS.

So you want Vraska to focus on the Meshuvel part instead of answering the question directed to him.... and you don't comment on the Meshuvel part yourself... I would just ignore you if you did that to me.

What Medic claims herself at L-15 anyway, hmm?

We specifically asked her to claim.


Feels like a ploy to draw out any real Medics, in which case, don't claim.

Ty for pointing out the obvious to someone who isn't paying attention.

Refer back to the previous FM. The early mislynched Medic was pretty much bloody rage and tried to resist claiming as much as possible. I use this as a standard to judge early Medic claims.


Glissa is too threatened by the Cult feedback which shouldn't happen for a Medic.


"Warning - new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post."
^This fucking thing happened like 6 times

I remember this... but I didn't play 19, too lazy to go look it up but I think he is talking about the same game I remember which means he has previous FM game experience.

I believe I've addressed Meshuval already, in one of my posts.

What made you choose to heal me over the revealed Citizen?
What made you choose to heal me over any of the other players in the game?
Important questions to my view

Information that isn't as pertinent as later days... but its not a bad idea to ask anyways. Being the 2nd top poster for day 1 by only 1 post is usually reason for medics to heal.... day 1, medics can heal the obvious or not.. wifom choice or random or a mix of the 2.

Parcher, besides Glissa, who do you want to lynch today and why?

Well with 1 sheriff claim already out and Glissa marching off to the gallows, setting up vig targets would seem like the next best choice for a Pr that has info. But the way you ask for information is just pure meta based.. Asking them directly doesn't yield the best results... and especially Parcher who is strong willed, if he doesn't want to answer, he won't.

I misspoke.
Liliana placing her suspicion on Meshuval would have been worth some looking at since it is her first substantial post and she FoS'd someone while doing so. What I mean is looking at what she has said and checking their validity. If its stretching the truth it can be seen as a weak redirect off of Glissa.

True, it can look like that, but it also encourages discussion rather than sheep, shows independent thought and the willingness to pursue ideas rather than go with the obvious choice. Checking the validity of the post can both be good and bad depending how you interpret them - since she claimed to not have spent time analyzing day 1, there are key pieces of information that you will account for that she did not.

What made you choose to heal me over the revealed Citizen?
What made you choose to heal me over any of the other players in the game?
Important questions to my view

Hmm, may I answer instead?


I believe it's because she probably, hmm, loves you.

Is Sifa going to say anything that isn't spam? Sifa has fit into the circlejerk trolls part of my notes now .. which means pretty much nothing alignment wise, just that he isn't worth analyzing much unless he is under direct threat of being lynched or gets jailed.

Refer back to the previous FM. The early mislynched Medic was pretty much bloody rage and tried to resist claiming as much as possible. I use this as a standard to judge early Medic claims.

Glissa is too threatened by the Cult feedback which shouldn't happen for a Medic.

"Warning - new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post."
^This fucking thing happened like 6 times

That's a bad measurement because how one reacts is dependant on the personality. I never rage, or atleast haven't done so in the past 4 years.

Correct about it being personality but thats not gonna stop this train.. Mentioning that you haven't raged in 4 years only seems like you are trying to look like a Vet .. your posts indicate otherwise. If you have been on the site for 4 years, you are not someone that I've been paying much attention to.

Refer back to the previous FM. The early mislynched Medic was pretty much bloody rage and tried to resist claiming as much as possible. I use this as a standard to judge early Medic claims.

Glissa is too threatened by the Cult feedback which shouldn't happen for a Medic.

"Warning - new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post."
^This fucking thing happened like 6 times

Hence my turning it off.

I definitely did not forget about this game. Nothing happened to me last night, I believe. I haven't read D1 and tbh I cba to either so time to analysa two pages worth of stuff.



This post was bad, you spend it waffling on Nicol Bolas ("I'm not sure he is scum" - is he town? Is he leaning scum? What is your exact opinion on him) or speculating who's going to be culted and what roles scum have and not actually FoSing anyone or doing any sort of actual scumhunting. Then, almost an hour later, you drop a vote as if it's an afterthought instead of a primary concern.

-vote FM Meshuval




Why aren't you harping on at me then considering I didn't do squat day 1? His response was terrible though.

I third/fourth/Xth the idea of vigging the witch. Lynching is fine too.

Glissa is scum and I will sheep sheriff if need be.

As an example of what I mean Liliana says she cant be bothered to go back and read day one to anaylze the posts there but she clearly has already done so to some extent with her analysis on Meshuval and the quotes she put down to support/direct it.
Other than that it is a valid point

Funny, because its the fact that she didn't read d1 that her reads make sense.. even if she skimmed d1, as an analyzer, its almost the same as not reading it. And both her quotes were from d2 so I still see no evidence that she lied about not reading d1 yet.

What made you choose to heal me over the revealed Citizen?
What made you choose to heal me over any of the other players in the game?
Important questions to my view

I felt like you could play an important part if we want to successfully scum hunt because of your aggressive behaviour with which you push for answers. I thought it to be important to have you in the future and you were the only one that stood out to me as scum hunter.

Translation: I healed you because of your COM name and meta.

That's a bad measurement because how one reacts is dependant on the personality. I never rage, or atleast haven't done so in the past 4 years.

One's alignment is more influential on their reaction than their personality. No one would bother with reaction tests in M-FMs/FMs if this wasn't the case.

Partially true... reaction tests are useful but people tend to not understand what a reaction test is and call many things reaction tests when they are not.. I find that very few reaction tests are used.... and sadly the meta hasn't been translating the results very well.

Parcher, besides Glissa, who do you want to lynch today and why?

No one else sticks out atm.
I'm still watching Sifa since I don't have a good feel on him

Sifa the spammer... don't have a good feeling on him either but I never do have a good feeling on cj trolls.

Hm. I suppose thats a valid answer Glissa.
Im gonna have to think on this a bit more.

One's alignment is more influential on their reaction than their personality. No one would bother with reaction tests in M-FMs/FMs if this wasn't the case.

Hm, that may be a valid point, but I've never seen it that way. That's probably why I think reaction tests on experienced players are useless and had to argue for that the last time this was brought up..

Reaction tests are 99% useless on experienced analytical players.

Nicol is viewing this thread but hasn't spoken.
I'd like his thoughts on this atm

Oh? Did you spot my post in the FaQ? hehehe

Riddle me this, Baltrice.


Why would anyone redirect a sheriff-check onto someone else? Would anyone do that?


(Hint: No, they would continue supporting the wagon on Glissa)


I like the accusation she put on Meshuval but he's not on my priority list at the moment.

I can think of a few reasons:
1- Liliana is the sheriff and possibly doubts Domri's claim but find Glissa scummy by her defense
2- Liliana is scum with Domri on her team
3- Liliana is jailor and wants to find someone to jail before the lynch
4- Liliana is an investigative role that has a not guilty on Glissa but doesn't want to reveal
5- Liliana is just looking for alternatives / preparing a lynch for following days
6- Liliana is trying to direct other PRs without being as bold as saying: Pr go here (cough vig cough)

Alright.


Sifa's on my watch list at the moment too. Was #68 really needed?

soo Sifa is getting onto everyones radar for being useless spammer. Noted.

Oooh a sheriff reveal has found a Reaper! I think we should not lynch this player but instead force the mafia to kill this player at night. Why waste a town lynch when scum wants to kill the Reapers, too? Now it's unclear whether Glissa is Sasha or if Glissa was recruited, but it's a 50:50 toss up IF you believe the sheriff claim.


If the sheriff claim is fake, it's probably from one of the mafia teams, leading a gambit. But the other team won't know that. Let's make scum waste resources on dealing with the reapers while we get rid of the witch claim who can win with scum but not with us.


There is no incentive for scum to kill the witch, but there is incentive for scum to kill a reaper. -> we should lynch the witch today.

-vote FM Elspeth Tirel

Ok.. meta-glasses on! I've already mentioned that I found Dack to be a strong candidate to being a FM Veteran..... which means I can't analyze his post word for word but need to read between the lines and find the true purpose.

Possibilities offered after reading the post:
1- Obvious diversion off of the Glissa lynch train
2- Dack knows the true identity of the Cult Leader
3- Dack knows Domri's role and doesn't trust it
4- Dack knows Elspeths role and knows that she is a superior target - possibly immune at night
5- Dack is actually counting on scum to do as he says
6- Dack is actually scum
7- Dack is trying to gain Glissas trust in hopes of getting a hint who the other cult is

The fact that he doesn't offer the plan to kill Elspeth at night and lynch Glissa is an obvious omission that I need to consider, as well as I know that he knows how scummy his idea sounds ... in fact its too obviously scummy and falls right back into townish.

Either way, I do not have a good enough read on Dack to discover his true intentions are yet.. need more input.

Someone who was a light may now be dark. Glissa may or may not have been a healer. What I know is that she is cult right now. What I think is that she was mafia with Nichol.

True about Glissa - wrong about me .. but if you prove to be a real sheriff, who is aware that I'm a high probability to be framed, keeping you against me can be useful in the end.

Arguing like that is valid, but wouldn't we want to go back then to the idea of vigging the Witch to pressure and lynch someone else we think to be a good target today?

Translation: Oh! someone is here to save me!

Plus, if we lynch Elspeth then Sifa Grent can safely remember the bus driver role.


Night 2: Sifa Grent remembers bus driver
Night 3: Sifa Grent should bus a towny member
Day 4: If nobody was bussed to prove Sifa remembered bus driver, then we should think about lynching Sifa.

Ah.. you are more concerned about the spammer that we can't get a read on other than his blubber on day1 hinting that he is amnesiac.

Dack Fayden - Sasha
Glissa - Converted reaper

Ok, Parcher is either concealing a gambit or just doesn't see that Dack might be pulling off a gambit.

As an example of what I mean Liliana says she cant be bothered to go back and read day one to anaylze the posts there but she clearly has already done so to some extent with her analysis on Meshuval and the quotes she put down to support/direct it.

That vote was based off of everything they've done so far today, I did not read D1 at all.

Riddle me this, Baltrice.

Why would anyone redirect a sheriff-check onto someone else? Would anyone do that?

(Hint: No, they would continue supporting the wagon on Glissa)

I like the accusation she put on Meshuval but he's not on my priority list at the moment.

You took an example and pushed it into an implication. It's a good twist to words but not something I, remotely, intended to be taken as.The likelihood of this occurring isn't very and if you noticed the recent post I had on the subject it showed a liking to her accusation as well. I am only naturally curious about tone and content of the post which weakly contrasted each other.
However I would answer your question.
A jester would see this as a prime opportunity to gain scummy views on himself while other scum might have taken advantage of a weak sheriff claim or having already framed the target to gain town points based on the flip.
Before someone attempts to twist these words into more implications, they are examples of things that could happen.




I am more positive that Domri is telling the truth than Glissa hence my vote in his favor.

Baltrice does see other possibilities and has weighed them accordingly.. as for the twisting of words, manipulating wifom happens all the time, you either tried to manipulate it or it just happened.

Do you really think Sasha would be this blatant in defending her cult buddy, if she is indeed cult?


I think Glissa should be dealt with today (by dayvig or lynch) but I like the outspoken stance Dack is taking.

Ok, so he is against the idea Dack put forth but is for the outspoken stance.. meaning he has detected the gambit and doesn't know how to interpret it yet and is letting it play out.

Someone who was a light may now be dark. Glissa may or may not have been a healer. What I know is that she is cult right now. What I think is that she was mafia with Nichol.

What I don't understand is your bolded part. I wasn't the only one who thought that Nicol isn't super scummy for creating that list. Sure, it was dumb, but all I saw was a mistake due to inexperience or whatever. And I felt like I wasn't the only one who felt that way about Nicol. That's what irritates me (besides you accusing me of being a Reaper of course).

So now you are trying to argue against "why" he checked you. This is not helping to defend yourself. As for the rest of your post, you bring up an interesting thing about "mistakes".

There is something that you should know about me when I'm analyzing. I intentionally ignore the possibility of someone making a mistake when posting, I always consider someones post as fully intentional. Now I know that we are not perfect and mistakes WILL be made but I will not consider them mistakes until proven to be so. In other words, the "it was a mistake" defense will not work on me even if it was.

Oooh a sheriff reveal has found a Reaper! I think we should not lynch this player but instead force the mafia to kill this player at night. Why waste a town lynch when scum wants to kill the Reapers, too? Now it's unclear whether Glissa is Sasha or if Glissa was recruited, but it's a 50:50 toss up IF you believe the sheriff claim.

If the sheriff claim is fake, it's probably from one of the mafia teams, leading a gambit. But the other team won't know that. Let's make scum waste resources on dealing with the reapers while we get rid of the witch claim who can win with scum but not with us.

There is no incentive for scum to kill the witch, but there is incentive for scum to kill a reaper. -> we should lynch the witch today.

-vote FM Elspeth Tirel

The mafia have no rule but themselves. We can only choose what we do. Do you claim to control the darkness?

Obviously doesn't see the potential gambit and only reads the words posted and not the intent.

Arguing like that is valid, but wouldn't we want to go back then to the idea of vigging the Witch to pressure and lynch someone else we think to be a good target today?

This seems incredibly scummy to me.

That vote was based off of everything they've done so far today, I did not read D1 at all.

Then I apologize, as I misread something along the way.

Or you tried to manipulate people into thinking what you wanted them to think.... remember, I don't see mistakes...

Hmm... don't you bother to think who Glissa "was" before. I personally don't bother to think about such, hmm, trivial things. What matters about Glissa is her current role from today, not from yesterday.

Who she was before matters if the sheriff is a fake, who she was before matters in determining if she is the priority target or not, also we are also fishing for any hints we can get to the identity of her teammate(s). Why are you trying to stop people from discussing it?

Do you really think Sasha would be this blatant in defending her cult buddy, if she is indeed cult?

I think Glissa should be dealt with today (by dayvig or lynch) but I like the outspoken stance Dack is taking.

Only if she had a competent argument, which Dack does.

"competent argument" not sure I can classify Dack's argument as competent yet. Either way, you are helping his argument.. intentionally helping gambit or not knowingly doing so?

What I don't understand is your bolded part. I wasn't the only one who thought that Nicol isn't super scummy for creating that list. Sure, it was dumb, but all I saw was a mistake due to inexperience or whatever. And I felt like I wasn't the only one who felt that way about Nicol. That's what irritates me (besides you accusing me of being a Reaper of course).

You go out of your way to defend him against Meshuval's accusation against him. That's what brought you to my attention.

So did many other people... I guess you didn't look past the first.

You took an example and pushed it into an implication. It's a good twist to words but not something I, remotely, intended to be taken as.
The likelihood of this occurring isn't very and if you noticed the recent post I had on the subject it showed a liking to her accusation as well. I am only naturally curious about tone and content of the post which weakly contrasted each other.
However I would answer your question.
A jester would see this as a prime opportunity to gain scummy views on himself while other scum might have taken advantage of a weak sheriff claim or having already framed the target to gain town points based on the flip.
Before someone attempts to twist these words into more implications, they are examples of things that could happen.


I am more positive that Domri is telling the truth than Glissa hence my vote in his favor.

For me personally I would think that scum would be more inclined to toss a vote on Glissa and lurk out the rest of the day. Taking a "devil's advocate" view (like Dack and Liliana) presents more accusations on the person (see Parcher over there), which I think is a town tell for "breaking out of the mold".

I'd say its more of a COM tell than a town tell, it just happens that the people who are doing it are town. But they are also the ones I consider to be analyzers.

This seems incredibly scummy to me.

Not sure why it does. If we hypothetically follow Dack's suggesting and leave me be for today, and we wanted to get rid of the Witch, then it would be better to use a vigilante on the Witch rather than lynch her because then we can use the day to pressure someone else for information and then possibly lynch them.

It makes you think you can live... of course it sounds good to you..

Arguing like that is valid, but wouldn't we want to go back then to the idea of vigging the Witch to pressure and lynch someone else we think to be a good target today?

Yeah ok, I think this would be a good idea in theory. But I want us to lynch a scum today. I'm uncomfortable with letting two valid scums off the hook for the purpose of pressuring other people.


Imo, we lynch the witch, and the vig should shoot Glissa during the day which will give us instant information on Domri Rade.

​1- Pop goes Glissas bubble
2- Giving misleading information about the vig mechanics... I know you are smarter than this, what are you up to?

You go out of your way to defend him against Meshuval's accusation against him. That's what brought you to my attention.

It is the comparable to Dack going out of his way to "defend" me. See Vraska's post, #93, for what I mean.

Except that there was no lynch train nor was there a sheriff claim - its the sheriff claim that you need to defend yourself against, not all the textual arguments that go with it. Without the sheriff claim, this train goes dead.

Yeah ok, I think this would be a good idea in theory. But I want us to lynch a scum today. I'm uncomfortable with letting two valid scums off the hook for the purpose of pressuring other people.

Imo, we lynch the witch, and the vig should shoot Glissa during the day which will give us instant information on Domri Rade.

Ah, I see now.

It is the comparable to Dack going out of his way to "defend" me. See Vraska's post, #93, for what I mean.

Dack gives an argument to why it's good to not lynch you today. I may not agree with it but I see the validity in it. You just say forgive and forget. What is dark cannot change to light, Glissa.

yes... the forgive and forget that you are scum does not happen automatically.

Yeah ok, I think this would be a good idea in theory. But I want us to lynch a scum today. I'm uncomfortable with letting two valid scums off the hook for the purpose of pressuring other people.

Imo, we lynch the witch, and the vig should shoot Glissa during the day which will give us instant information on Domri Rade.

I agree with this, and my thoughts on lynching the witch is presented in an earlier post of mine.


Dack, besides Elspeth and Glissa, who do you want to lynch today and why?

Ok, now you are fishing for too many.. you might reveal his gambit/role if you continue this discussion. Although if Dack answers, it will shed light on what he is up to.

Just read everything quickly. I'm kind a busy today/tomorrow so dont expect me to read/say everything.


Why are we sure we have a vig? Shouldn't we save vigi day shot for night immune roles like godfather?

Still no read on personality - question about the obvious extremist on the role list tells me that he didn't study the setup. (after reading the masons chat, I found out that it was trap - one that I feel no longer helps find alignments but does help identify COM categories)

Saying to save the vigi shot for immune roles is the same as trying to tell the vig to not shoot during the day.

[Yayap]

posts 101-150

An early claim for Sheriff. Now one has to question whether Glissa is worth lynching.... Well obviously she is pretty much outted, however to detrimine is she is Sasha would require another day. So what it really comes down to is if their is anyone thats of higher value to lynch.

Top targets = Sasha > Neutral Killer > Beast > Cole > Mafia > other evil neutrals (including cult)
Since the claim was that Domri found a cult, its a 50/50 chance its Sasha.... good luck trying to find a higher priority target without massive role claims.

I disagree with Dack's idea of letting the dark take care of the dark. It's what links the darkness of Jace with the darkness of Dack. Both think that shades should fight each other. I take issue because this early, the light is every shade's problem. Gimping other scum teams only aids the light. History is replete with examples.

The light is responsible for what the light does and does not do. Do not expect the dark to clean themselves up. I cannot let this town let the dark overrun the light by standing idle.

As I said... I don't think Domri realizes what Dack is doing. It's not what it appears.

Do you really think Sasha would be this blatant in defending her cult buddy, if she is indeed cult?

I think Glissa should be dealt with today (by dayvig or lynch) but I like the outspoken stance Dack is taking.

If Glissa flips reaper, consort on me. Make scum block a potential Sasha so that town resources can be used elsewhere.

The mafia have no rule but themselves. We can only choose what we do. Do you claim to control the darkness?

I claim aspirations to manipulate darkness into performing semi-pro-town actions. Whether darkness listens to me, only time will tell.

Not sure why it does. If we hypothetically follow Dack's suggesting and leave me be for today, and we wanted to get rid of the Witch, then it would be better to use a vigilante on the Witch rather than lynch her because then we can use the day to pressure someone else for information and then possibly lynch them.

Lynch = witch
Vig = Glissa or the pressure suspect

Using a vig to enact the lynch means that we don't have to shuffle votes at the end of the day. We should vote whoever we want to pressure and if no better target emerges, vig can hit Glissa.

Your attempts to manipulate are obvious to me... manipulating them to do what remains to be seen.

Oh I also forgot to mention that I was rudely awaken by some drunk individual and forced to spend the night so other chick's house.

Bus Driven by who I suppose to now 6 feet under.

Takes note of this info - nothing more to say.

The Basileus of Byzantium has returned...

With a Catholic Zealot -Reaper- possibly discovered, and maybe even the Pope -Sasha- shall we stand by and let them tear us apart from within?

I would suggest the Vigilante day shoot the claim of the Witch, and we lynch the possible Zealot -Reaper-.

I am unsure of I trust our Sheriff, claiming this early in the game doesn't seem Sheriffy. Although I would likely do the same if I believed I had found the Pope -Sasha-.

As to Glissa, she seems to be far too eager and calmed to claim to be a Surgeon -Medic- and I normally would not expect a claim with this few votes. It seems as if she wants it off her as fast as possible and to not leave the town with a choice of either lynching her or lynch no one.

Also, nothing happened to me last night.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

I shall return in a while, something came up in RL today.

Similar view to my own, finds Glissa scummy for the defense but isn't convinced about the sheriff... the more people that start hinting about this, the more it becomes plausible that they know something and are concealing it. Also of note is the reverse suggestion to Dacks plan - I await a response from Dack to see how he responds.

I agree with this, and my thoughts on lynching the witch is presented in an earlier post of mine.

Dack, besides Elspeth and Glissa, who do you want to lynch today and why?

I have some unfinished business with yourself, FM Meshuvel, and FM Nicol Bolas. Please comment on those two other players or link me to the post where you said you did.

I would also like FM Baltrice to claim a random scum role just as an exercise in fun.

Need this information plus time to analyze flips to figure out where my reads stand.

Error! Not understand gambit.. Error! Need more input!

Nicol is viewing this thread but hasn't spoken.
I'd like his thoughts on this atm

When I logged on comma there was twenty dash five posts comma now you are all posting at fifty posts an hour period I am still catching up comma just finished page two period Ill give my thoughts when I have a more complete picture of the chaos someone just started period

Translation: I have no clue what Dack is up to and need more time to analyze before I officially join the discussion.

Why are we sure we have a vig? Shouldn't we save vigi day shot for night immune roles like godfather?

......

Well he hasn't found it but at least he is consistently confused and is seeking the answer as to why we think its in the game.

1) I support the dayvig on Glissa and then a lynch on either the witch or possibly Domri (if Glissa doesn't flip cult).
2) I see no need to act on any other purely observation-based FoSes right now since we may very well have a sheriff to investigate for us tonight.
3) Magikarp > Sandshrew

1- More misinformation about dayvig mechanics about the reveal.... was there an sfm or mfm that I'm not aware of that had instant graveyard info?

2- Lucy still alive - Sheriff getting more results tonight = improbable. This is an attempt to stop scumhunting!

3- whatever...

Hey kids, votes on Elspeth. Scum has literally no incentive to kill her at night whereas there is marginal incentive for scum to kill Glissa at night.

Probabilities of scum on scum kills:
0% Elspeth the witch gets killed by scum
10% Glissa gets killed: mafia fears the reapers, Domri is actually mafia and they outed a doc claim, etc. these are just off the top of my head.

This is why your vote should be on Elspeth.

So if Dack reads Elspeth the way I do, he would think that Elspeth is a PR and not the witch.. if Dack was scum, he would have taken the shot - non killing neutral maybe? or Town looking for who would follow his plan?

I have some unfinished business with yourself, FM Meshuvel, and FM Nicol Bolas. Please comment on those two other players or link me to the post where you said you did.

I would also like FM Baltrice to claim a random scum role just as an exercise in fun.

Need this information plus time to analyze flips to figure out where my reads stand.

No.

Lol... figures, who would want to claim scum for thrills..... other than monkey wrenches.

Nothing happened to me and I'm rather disappointed that my claim was to avail.

I am not part of any group, which mean that the plan was not followed.

Enforcer bait - either masons were smart and didn't recruit you or failed because of enforcer... or failed because you are not a citizen... still hard to say at this point.

Aight I'm totally missing something, how do we know Elspeth is Witch

With everyone trying to get the vig to pull the trigger, if you think Elspeth is town as I do, making people realize that lying is possible is probably a good idea right about now.

Hmm, maybe because she said so herself?

Ty captain obvious.... now can you plz give me an analysis of what she said between the line?

She claimed that dark role. I don't know if anyone has definite proof of her alignment either in the light or dark.

Sarkhon, Praise the Sun you are still alive. It is a shame that you were not recruited into that shining order.

or was he recruited by evil masons?

Because we should take everything everyone says at face value? Come now. You must know that will not do.

Oh, and before I forget, my night was uneventful.

Welcome to day 2 sir with common sense.

More reasons for lynching Elspeth:

-Domri Rade can continue to check people at night without risk of results being tampered with by the witch.
-vig could be afk and not follow through with our plan for him to shoot the witch
-scum has to use a consort block on Domri Rade to prevent investigations. WIFOM lookout on Domri and we can figure out who a mafia member might be and/or continue to have successful sheriff results.

-doesn't solve the mafia blocking/luring/killing her problem
-sadly as a host, I know this to be all too true... all these plans revolving around an afk PR
-this counters Lucy but not orange kidnapper/willbender/consort who is immune to lookouts

then again... mafia might take the wifom bait and not do anything...

Any reason everybody is ignoring me??

Your question still hasn't been answered, I know... oh well - read the setup. :P

Your questions are not directed at any one individual in particular. Be a laser, not a lightbulb for those questions.

LMAO... answers the question why people are ignoring him but doesn't answer the initial question that he wants answered. Domri is really not very helpful. Still high doubts about his claim.

More reasons for lynching Elspeth:

-Domri Rade can continue to check people at night without risk of results being tampered with by the witch.
-vig could be afk and not follow through with our plan for him to shoot the witch
-scum has to use a consort block on Domri Rade to prevent investigations. WIFOM lookout on Domri and we can figure out who a mafia member might be and/or continue to have successful sheriff results.

How will Glissa die then? She is of the darkness and has no place in the light.

Town has 2 confirmed killing roles.. I would hope that at least 1 of them is not afk and is paying attention. Besides, Dacks plan was for scum to take her out.

I almost forgot-

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

If we lynch her, we either:
1. Eliminate a scum and confirm a sheriff
2. Eliminate a townie, but confirm a liar (or the existence of a framer).

In either case we gain information.

Or dont gain anything and the executioner wins.. glaring omission.

Ok Ive seen this one too many times to jump onto this sheriff claiming he found super scum this early on period It goes something like this colon
fake sheriff dash Hey him super scum period
town dash choo choo
lynch victim dash wut me innocent
fake sheriff dash if Im wrong you can lynch me tomorrow period
town dash choo choo
lynch victim - dies a horrible death and flips town
dash next day dash
town dash fake sheriff could be a jester ploy
real sheriffs and real invests dash wont check him because of obvious frame targets
fake sheriff - he must have been framed of bus driven or maybe I was witched
town - focuses on new person and forgets about fake sheriff

So yeah comma Im a little scketical about this sheriffs luck comma I dont trust PRs who reveal so early but then again I dont trust PRs who reveal to defend themselves cough mr fake medic cough period

Before anything else however comma I want mr witchiness to tell us exactly what she did last night period

There was one hundred and twelve posts when I started writting this and have not read any new posts since period

On a side note comma Im not at home this weekend and am using a friends laptop comma which is very annoying since I dont have a mouse comma my settings comma or my notes on my pc braket even though I didnt have many notes from day 1 braket

So pretty much through out my real thoughts on the situation - I doubt Domri is sheriff but the awful medic claim defense might convince me to join. And yes, I was away that weekend.
Being jester, I could afford to discredit a future confirmed town and work in opposition of him, my goal is for him not to think I'm town in the end and right now he doesn't seem town to me. So win-win situation for me to get into.
Also, I was surprised no one tried to get Elspeth action out of her before I asked.

Come on people. I have to go soon. I will give my vote to whoever gives me my best answer.

aww.. now you look sad. No harm in directing you to the setup if no one else is going to.

Shooting Nicol tonight.

Strong willed player.. best not to answer this and let it play out - Vig wouldn't be so obvious when possibile witches and people wanting to kill him are out there.

Ok Ive seen this one too many times to jump onto this sheriff claiming he found super scum this early on period It goes something like this colon
fake sheriff dash Hey him super scum period
town dash choo choo
lynch victim dash wut me innocent
fake sheriff dash if Im wrong you can lynch me tomorrow period
town dash choo choo
lynch victim - dies a horrible death and flips town
dash next day dash
town dash fake sheriff could be a jester ploy
real sheriffs and real invests dash wont check him because of obvious frame targets
fake sheriff - he must have been framed of bus driven or maybe I was witched
town - focuses on new person and forgets about fake sheriff

So yeah comma Im a little scketical about this sheriffs luck comma I dont trust PRs who reveal so early but then again I dont trust PRs who reveal to defend themselves cough mr fake medic cough period

Before anything else however comma I want mr witchiness to tell us exactly what she did last night period

There was one hundred and twelve posts when I started writting this and have not read any new posts since period

On a side note comma Im not at home this weekend and am using a friends laptop comma which is very annoying since I dont have a mouse comma my settings comma or my notes on my pc braket even though I didnt have many notes from day 1 braket

This isn't sc2mafia.

I see no value whatso ever in this post... Executioner play is the same in an FM as it is in sc2 ... don't believe me? Check Crimson in FM2 lynching MrSmarter.

Come on people. I have to go soon. I will give my vote to whoever gives me my best answer.

Whoring your vote out is a terrible idea. Using the light before it is extinguished is a high calling. Using the light to gimp the shades this early can only help the town.

Shooting Nicol tonight.

Are you claiming you are the light's bringer of death?

soo he is offering his free vote to whoever answers his question and instead of answering, you question his methods.. Just answer the damn question!

Oh look, that looks like a vig claim, better ask to clarification to make sure its a PR... in other words, why did you even bother to ask?

Ok Ive seen this one too many times to jump onto this sheriff claiming he found super scum this early on period It goes something like this colon
fake sheriff dash Hey him super scum period
town dash choo choo
lynch victim dash wut me innocent
fake sheriff dash if Im wrong you can lynch me tomorrow period
town dash choo choo
lynch victim - dies a horrible death and flips town
dash next day dash
town dash fake sheriff could be a jester ploy
real sheriffs and real invests dash wont check him because of obvious frame targets
fake sheriff - he must have been framed of bus driven or maybe I was witched
town - focuses on new person and forgets about fake sheriff

So yeah comma Im a little scketical about this sheriffs luck comma I dont trust PRs who reveal so early but then again I dont trust PRs who reveal to defend themselves cough mr fake medic cough period

Before anything else however comma I want mr witchiness to tell us exactly what she did last night period

There was one hundred and twelve posts when I started writting this and have not read any new posts since period

On a side note comma Im not at home this weekend and am using a friends laptop comma which is very annoying since I dont have a mouse comma my settings comma or my notes on my pc braket even though I didnt have many notes from day 1 braket

That's a heck of a risk to take with a hypothetical vigilante in the game...

What? not believing every claim that is said? If the vig has any common sense, there is no risk.... and since Elspeth is still breathing, I'm assuming he is smarter than the gullible townsmen that have been in this day chat.

Vig is not hypothetical comma he is comfirmed period

Although not a direct answer to Chandra - I'm trying to get him to find out where it says he is confirmed... which would be the role list.

Elspeth's case is common. Could certainly be witch. It could also be a direct ploy of WIFOM. I don't find any reason why she would out herself right at day 1. So I certainly don't believe she is Witch, but still needs to be checked.

Agreed.

I do not see how he is confirmed at all.

Tibalt has not read setup... or is actually trying to spread misinformation but its too obvious and doesn't gain anything to do so... so I'll have him as does not know setup.

Extremist...is listed in the Role List

Tadaa! Sandruu has read the role list.

Analysis of the night kills:

FM Tamiyo
Green Mafia killed and cleaned FM Tamiyo (and spent 2 night actions doing so):

I've read through the previous and find one post extremely disconcerting, I won't tell you what it is atm, I will probably not be around for a bit.

FM Tamiyo indicates she is holding something back. A post to pique interest in her, but probably not the reason she was killed.

I'd like to assert this line of discussion is useless atm, I'd like to urge a single citizen to step forward, so we can then proceed to discuss other options.

FM Tamiyo makes a really priestly sounding comment. Mark my words, this is why FM Tamiyo was killed.

Implications: FM Tamiyo may have been Priest, however conversions come before death and FM Tamiyo was in favor of the plan to recruit FM Sarkhan Vol. Therefore I infer that the orange mafia picked an enforcer.

Reactions: Green mafia will push for Glissa's lynch today, knowing that the priest is possibly dead and might not be able to purge Glissa. I'm asking in the Q&A if they would know with any certainty if it is so. -> people pushing for Glissa's lynch should be suspected of being green mafia.


FM Gideon Jura
Orange mafia killed Gideon Jura with no cleaning, just used one night action on this.

...
Joseph Bertrand
Cop
Investigator
Extremist
Medic
Detainer
Priest
Coroner
Random Power Militia (Gunsmith/Armorsmith)
Random Power Militia (Bus driver)
Random Power Militia (Veteran)
Random Power Militia (Lookout)
Random Power Militia (Bodyguard)
Random Power Militia (Detective)
Militia Member X9
My thoughts on the roles list. I will reveal the Vermaak 88 roles after their roles are chosen.

Posted thoughts on the role list. I bet orange mafia killed him because they thought he was one of the town power roles that he listed in the town section. OR he also says that there is a revolutionist under his killing neutral.

My idea;

Step 1: Two Citizens must step up each day.
Step 2: Mason converts one of them
Step 3: Medic must anti cult one of them
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Win

Could have seemed vaguely pro-priest-who-didn't-read-setup here (not knowing enforcer has 2 targets) or pro-revolutionist.

Implications: Orange mafia killed Gideon because he seemed like a revolutionist or one of the TPR that he put on his role list.


[size=5]What the kills tell us about the mafia night actions:[/color]
Cole MacGrath - kill FM Tamiyo
Zeke Dunbar - ?
Lucy Kuo - ?
Nix - clean FM Tamiyo
Vermaak 88 - Enforcer - enforce FM Sarkhan Vol & ?
Vermaak 88 - Kidnapper? - ?(but can't be sent to kill)
Vermaak 88 - ?? - sent to kill FM Gideon Jura
Vermaak 88 - ?? - ??

Tamiyo = I had forgotten about that post.. since to me it was rather obvious what she held back... If mafia killed her because of that post, then I have to set green mafias personality profile as easy to bait and very simple minded.
I do not think that she was the priest but do think that this is part of the gambit to see who will react and unvote the Glissa train.

Gideon = possible but I'll stick with my huch that it was random hit or poorly thought out hit.

Enforcer target: Sarkhan is the obvious, maybe by pointing this out people will realize why Sarkhan is not a mason... if he is telling the truth about not being recruited.

Dack, I would agree with your choice of lynch if it were not for the fact that Jester is both a possibility and basing off the posts of the person in question a good likelihood. Claiming Witch like this seems to have been a very good tactic in that regard. I would rather have a vigi shoot her and have us lynch Glissa which results in the exact same information that you propose we would get.

Pretty much the reasons I can't be too scummy early on - I need to dodge town killers.

People currently on Glissa:

FM Glissa Sunseeker (6 [L-12]):
FM Domri Rade, FM Sifa Grent, FM Baltrice, FM Parcher, FM Jace Beleren, FM Ravi Sengir

At least one of them is probably green mafia who is more worried about the threat of the reapers since they believe to have killed the Priest last night. FM Domri Rade can be sheriff until proven otherwise because I don't see why Zeke would reveal a possible Sasha when it could result in him getting lynched if he's wrong. FM Sifa Grent is amnesiac. Therefore, FM Baltrice, FM Parcher, FM Jace Beleren, FM Ravi Sengir seem like possible green mafias.

Possible, I'll wait and see what develops in the next few posts before judging.

Although it seems quite unlikely that Elspeth would be a jester.

Vigs rarely shoot n1 unless they are inexperienced and jailor had to take advantage of his single night without the kidnapper to build his claim later in the game. So.. jester option is still up for debate. If it wasn't for a sheriff claim, Elspeth would probably be on the chopping block.

Hey this is just my opinion. I think the likelihood of Elspeth being a jester is low just because of this situation exactly where she could be a huge target for town killing roles.

It wouldn't be my choice of a jester gambit either.. and I doubt 2 jesters.

Dack, Valid deductions but I feel like they are less than accurate.
I have a few questions about the analysis and the follow up.

The post in which you state sounds priestly would be more valid if she was the one who came up with the plan to have a Citizen step up and reveal. However she did not, as I believe Jace was the one with that plan. The tone of that post you quoted instead reads to be annoyed with the current plan and simply wished to move on to more suitable conversation. This is supported by the ending of her post "so we can then proceed to discuss other options."
Would you disagree?

WARNING! Jace was completely AGAINST that plan and was one of the few who was.. This is obvious misdirection with little to no beneficial outcome other than incurring Jace's furry. Baltrice has hit my radar as someone misleading.

Are you claiming you are the light's bringer of death?

For 1 night

So you are covering yourself later when your lie is discovered and people find out that you are not a vigilante.. gunsmith is possible, so I can't discount that possibility.

Dack, why do you put down that the kidnapper cannot be sent to kill?
Where did you get this information?

Warning 2! Baltrice doesn't look at rolecards for obvious answers and instead feels that it is worth talking about. More attempting to mislead.

Now, to speculate on Vermaak 88 roles.

Possible roles:
Kidnapper - A highly likely pick. It's basically an unstoppable consort that also gets one kill. If they're smart, there is no way they didn't get a kidnapper, and if they didn't get one, then we should rejoice because it means they've wasted a role slot.

Janitor - I doubt they took one of these. 3 charges just isn't enough to justify choosing it. Plus there were two kills last night, but only one cleaning (which was a burn, ie. conduits' clean). They could have simply not used a cleaning last night, but I think choosing a role that can only do 3 things at best is not a wise decision.

Framer - This particular iteration of the framer is quite powerful. It can frame two people per night or it can choose to do nothing and be immune to detection. I would bet they have one of these for sure.

Consigliere - I think this iteration of the consig is weak and not worth choosing. It only gets the investigation pairing, which isn't all that useful to the Vermaaks, and it only gets the exact role if it targets the same person twice, which is horribly inefficient.

Consort - My guess is that they have a consort. Even though they already have a kidnapper for roleblocks, why not have two roleblocks? Since they can't choose a second kidnapper, the second blocker must be a consort. And why not? She even gets detection immunity while blocking.

Sapper - No way they have one of these. Live2Die roles are horrible for scum factions whose whole mission is to survive. Especially with this one, given that its ability is a complete gamble. I really hope I'm wrong, though, because if they picked this they will have another useless member who will eventually kill himself for us if we don't kill him first.

Disguiser - There is a very remote possibility that the cleaning from last night was actually a disguiser, but since disguising on night one is stupid, and I like to assume my adversaries are generally intelligent, I doubt this is the case. However, there could still be a disguiser out there. But again, this is a case where I feel that they would be gimping themselves by choosing this role. It can only act once, which means they lose out on the consistent power that other roles would bring. Plus, its best usage is as an escape when caught/accused as scum, but if found during the day, could easily get lynched before getting to disguise, meaning another useless role. So I doubt this will be in the game.

Enforcer - The most likely fourth pick, imo. More for its passive ability than for anything. These guys have 4 members to start, and in order to win, at least one of them needs to survive and remain Vermaaak 88 aligned. The last thing they want is for a reaper to come along and recruit one of their guys. This would actually be particularly devastating since he could betray them and tell the reapers all of their plans and identities. So my guess is that they took an enforcer so that they wouldn't have to worry about it. Plus, this allows them to actively try to shut down the reapers (and the preists) with the Enforcer's night action.


Willbender - Too risky to be chosen, I think. Could just as easily lure a killer as a doctor. And in most cases I think this team will want to avoid being targeted, so I don't think it would be wise to choose a role that would force someone to target a member. Though it would be amusing if they chose this role and it managed to lure Sasha.

In short, I think the Vermaak 88 team is:

Kidnapper
Framer
Consort
Enforcer

With the exception of the willbender, his analysis of the role choice is decent. If you are randoming your targets then willbender is bad.. but if you only lure confirmed non killers like invest roles, it becomes much more powerful. Also of note is consort are immune to tracking not detection... but it can be confusing on the rolecard so I'm willing to let it pass. Ravi has hit my analytical radar.

Oops, I'm dumb, last night's cleaning was a burn as I pointed out earlier in the post. Defintiely not a disguiser. wtf, brain.

hey guys nothing happened to me last night.
not good that it had to hit the bd

@sheriff claim
i doubt that this is an exe strategy, would be too obvious. anyway, can you explain why you choose to reveal so early?

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

for now i'm adding pressure, i ask you to roleclaim

Executioner plays are obvious... people just never want to take the risk of calling it out and being wrong thus the high success rate of executioners......... and who do you want to role claim? did you not see the horrible medic claim? Notes down that Ral is not reading days, only skimming.

Can Vermaak 88 members be sent for the factional kill in addition to using their regular night actions?

original role card says no... but not too many people read the original one.

no

Actually no, bad question. More specific version:

Can the Kidnapper be sent for the factional kill while he has someone captive?

This is an obvious no... but I read this post more of a confirmation to mount an argument against Baltrice.

oh well he claimed already, i rushed the post out too fast

hey... you must be reading the tread now.

Ok back to obvious questions that no one has bothered to ask period

There were two victims last night and we know we have at least three killing scums period Did the third fail his kill comma is a delayed kill comma didnt or couldnt kill or was there a double kill question mark

Very few people have the information I seek, I'm trying to see if anyone is willing to talk about something other than the obvious lynch train.

Ugin gets up after a good night sleep. He comes over to see a lot of commotion and starts to figure out what is going on.

Similar to my post in the FaQ.. pretty much just announcing his presence/establishing a timeline for when he is online.

Im off for now comma might read the forums on my phone but dont plan on posting from it period

aka I'm going to sleep/watching tv .. nothing to read into here other that I wont be defending any arguments against me till the next day.

Methinks we have an arsonist in our midst.

Me wonders if you have any evidence of this or just pure speculation

[Yayap]

posts 151-200 (with less quotes inside quotes)

It's in the role cards that kidnapper can't be sent to kill unless he's the last orange mafia.



So I commented on this yesterday that I predicted that there are revolutionists in the game.
-Serial killer possible but unlikely now that we see there is no kill.
-spree killer is not going to happen after forever-alone-fmv where Elixir commented that the role had very little impact on the game
-arsonist/revoutionist don't give notification until a burn/factional kill pops up. I think that arsonist is cover for a revolutionist faction though. Because the revolutionists died instantly in FM XI and it's a good anti-priest role. I have a balance boner for revolutionists being in this game.

@ Ravi:

Everyone ignored mie and now I have to go. So no votes from me today. Bye!

I guess you didn't see the directions I posted where you could find that info... or you are lazy, oh well.

Thanks, I didn't catch that. Damn image role cards. I miss text.

Oh? So you weren't trying to mount an arguments against Baltrice... notes down that you tried to either cover for Baltrices' slip or tried to join in the misleading.

Ugin is happy to see you are still here but sad bus driver is gone, he moved me last night and my notebook is missing. Ugin still has some paper and crayons



Ugin smiles at you and thinks you are a cool guy



Ugin likes you. He does give a weary look at you for defending him. Ugin apparently doesn't mind it but also seems to have a dislike for it.



Ugin wonders why you agree but don't vote.



Ugin like this. But Ugin must read rest first.



Ugin again wonders where your vote is.



Ugin wonders why you are defensive about a single early vote.



Ugin thinks you are townie due to second part though.



Ugin laughs and knows scums always claim protective roles first.



Ugin would like you to explain the highlighted part. Ugin see the sun is still rising.



Ugin thinks you are very good player. Ugin thinks of the saying though "A bird in the hand is better than 2 in a bush"



Ugin is weary of this, he knows there are technically 2 mafias. Ugin wonders how you think she is mafia with nicole. He also would like to know if she is a mafia, what allegiance did she belong to?



Ugin goes to the giant hole and goes down, he finds his notebook full of pictures. He is happy. Ugin does find it offputting you delayed your reveal



Ugin laughs.



Ugin will talk to you. Ugin does wonder why you want attention.



Ugin agrees, this is New Marris.



Ugin thinks that anything could be right now. He does agree that arson/revolution is biggest candidate.

Me sees a big wall of text with a bunch of .... nothing? no explanation, no Foses, no arguments, no purpose? ... oh wait, there is that bus claim at the start.

Ugin is sad, he waits for your return.

And you didn't even answer his question...

Ugin summarizes post 155 with this



Ugin sees how many votes are on one. Ugin vote is only sheep but will vote.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

So... not only are you not contributing, you are sheeping..

Nothing happened to me last night.

A few thoughts:

Only 2 kills but 3 killers
From this we can figure a few things
1. 2 killers hit the same target (Unlikely) past fm history says this is more likely than we think
2. A killer hit a night immune
3. A killer did not submit an action and will be replaced soon (Keep this in mind later on)
4. Arson
5. A killer was role blocked
6. Killer choice not to kill to confuse us / make us lower our guard against mass murderer
7. Revolutionists! Glaring omission!


Feedback
We can determine the following from our feedback
Kills
1. The first kill was from Cole (this is speculation based on fluff and not anything in the setup)
2. Their Janitor only has 2 more cleanings
3. We had a Bus Driver which was one of our random power roles (does this even need to be mentioned? aka non helpful information)

Misc
-Two claimed role blocks means either the town has a Stripper or the mafia has a consort. (or someone lied/person jailed claimed rb instead of jailed)

Roles (Based on our current speculation)

Cole MacGrath [MacGrath] Killer
Lucy Kuo [MacGrath] Invest
Zeke Dunbar [MacGrath] Escort
Nix [MacGrath] Janitor

Conduit [Vermaak 88]
Conduit [Vermaak 88]
Conduit [Vermaak 88]
Conduit [Vermaak 88]
Sees that you believe that there is a second consort or escort but you fail to list either of them in you speculation role list

Soul of The Beast
Sasha (Reaper Leader) (Could be Glissa)
Random Killing Conduit (Arson?)
Cultist? (Will be confirmed on Glissa's Flip) ERROR!
Random Conduit (I suspect some form of Neutral Benign role)

Joseph Bertrand
Cop
Investigator
Extremist
Medic
Detainer
Priest
Coroner
Random PR (why is the first random not the confirmed dead bus driver?)
Bus Driver (Dead) (Night action was to Swich FM Sandruu with ?XXX?) (based on post times, I know you didn't read Ugins post yet)
Random PR
Random PR
Random PR
Cit
Cit
Cit
Cit
Cit
Cit
Cit
Cit
Cit



-I set the Neutral Killer as an Arson to account for only 2 kills
-From stated feedback we have 2 escorts, 1 sheriff, 1 cult

2 escorts? where is the consort? 1 cult? game started with one cult, should be 2 now.

Claimed roles:
1. Elspeth claimed witch
2. Domri Rade claimed Sheriff
-Claimed the feedback that Glissa is a member of the Cult
3. (Somebody legit claimed cit but I have to dig through D1 to find who) You make this big post but are too lazy to check your notes / check day 1 for this easy information?

On #2
- No other roles can check an alignment (useless information that we all know .. or should know)
- Other invests need 2 nights to get exact role so mafia FoS'ing for town credit is doubtful (wrong, invests dont ever get exact role, only orange consig - looks like you only read scum role cards)
- Could be witched, Targets are not informed of witching
- Could be Sasha throwing a cult under the bus to throw off suspicion
- Could be Jester (Doubtful)
- Could be Executioner
- Could be disguiser getting ready to cause a mislynch and make a run for it

Initial thoughts on Tibalt are very negative, he appears to want to look analytical but fails in most of his information, also the glaring omission of the revolutionists for possible neutral as well as not mentioning who claimed cit gives me a gut feeling that he might be a revo.

What is there to explain? I saw multiple votes getting thrown down on someone and ask that we don't end phase end by hammering. It slipped my mind that there is a lot of people so the chance of hammering was very little.

As for recent content, the only person (other than Glissa) I find to be scummy atm is Dack for not only suggesting that scum is going to kill otehr scum (which is dumb by itself but not scummy) but then persisting on it when everyone calls him out for it.

We have 2 flips so all this setupspec is bad and should stop.

I think you either didn't see the possible gambit or want it to end, which is more likely since I sense that you are analytical and would most likely have seen it.

I think that's me.

You think? What do you mean "think"? You either did or you did not, we are the ones that have to "think", you "know". Were you recruited by Revos last night and are trying to distance yourself from your cit claim now? I'll need to re-evaluate my read on you.

so you converted?

Ral not reading day chat again... no surprise there.

to priest?

Amused. Do players these days not read as much anymore? I'm quite easy to see.

maybe you just don't want to tell^^

or maybe they failed to convert you? hmm

If a mason doesn't want people to know that he was converted, the last thing town should be doing is pointing it out that he doesn't want us to know. Ral gains scummy points for this.

Here's my plan ; Lookout on me. Priest visits me in order to make me a Priest. We stay at the plan of claiming Citizen one at a time.

Enforcer? Lookout. Simple plan, requires only the attention of only two others and not majority of all roles.

Lookout not confirmed on rolelist - and wouldn't be able to tell masons from revos or other roles
+ if a mass murderer decided to make us lax our guard, this would be a prime target to eliminate lookouts, masons, and possibly enforcer all in one hit.

Everyone, I have returned to you! My love, I am glad to see you alive and well. I will be reading this thread and adding my reads to it. Nothing happened to me last night.



A cult? I wouldn't mind lynching her. I fos her more than Domri, so I am placing my vote on her.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

I checked the Order of Operation and Conversion comes before investigatings.



I really dislike this post. What make you think we are just going to ignore the Fake sheriff after Glissa flips town? Why are you so sure that this sheriff is fake? I know it is possible that he is a fake sheriff, but the way you said it, you seemed so convinced that he isn't. Good, I still look scummy.


He wasn't converted. This makes no sense at all, Chandra never even talked about conversions.


What is this? I dislike this post so much. Not everything revolves around you.
Because I am nice, Ill answer your post.


We are not sure we have a vig, but we are discussing the possibility that if we have a vig, we should plan out his targets. I am not sure about we should save his shots for night immune roles.
Yes we are sure we have a vig - Nissa doesn't read obvious role list or is trying to mislead.
Let me ask a question to the host.
Are night immune roles also immune to daytime shots?

(check original post for quotes in the post)

@Dack, I don't really understand why you would want to lynch a possible witch over a possible cultist. If we lynch the witch today, it is possible that Glissa is Sashia and recruit another person. Another recruit is a lot worse for the town than another witching.

Nissa doesn't see possible gambit.

if will citis get informed if priest tries to convert them and fails cause of enforcer is false i think enforcer was probably on you. or priest couldnt go to convert for some reason. i don't see a reason to not follow the plan to convert claimed citizens. there are also no reasons atm to distrust sarkhan. cult would not convert him either imo

i think the lookout plan is good and failproof. if enforcer he will be found

plan is far from failproof for reasons I posted above.

-vote FM Glissa sunseeker

Sheep.. does not contribute anything.

EXTREMIST = VIGILANTE. ERGO WE HAVE A VIGILANTE.

-I also agree with the lookout plan on Sarkhan.
-I think Vraska was too aggressive
-Amnesiac should take the Bus Driver tonight.


What is the difference between lynching glissa/witch and vigging the other? Do we get their role before the end of the day?

Finally someone answers Chandra instead of bouncing all around the question.
Doesn't see how plan could fail.
Hmm, maybe I can get a better read on Vraska with this.
People still think Sifa is Amnesiac, time to find out for sure.
Finally, someone who asks the question about when the flip happens.. it has always been at end of day in the past.

-vote FM Glissa sunseeker

(insert quote about jace)
You claim to not trust the sheriff, but you go with the Sheriff's check anyways?


Expound on this.

Jace has common sense to see that Glissa is scum for other reasons than the sheriff claim - same as me.. there is really nothing to question here. Vraska doesn't seem to understand this without people telling everything.

*Grunts come from behind the bar*
FM Venser appears to have awaken from a drunken stupor

Good morning everyone. I was drinking heavily last night, I blame FM Meshuvel for pouring the bourbon with a heavy hand. I think I mistakenly hit on FM Xenagos and yelled at FM Sifa Grent to stop writing in his book. Anyway, nothing happened to me last night and I have nothing report. I'll just be napping here behind the bar if you need anything... oh what's that FM Domri Rade? You're the sheriff? Well if we don't trust a sheriff, what's the point of having one?

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

This post screams coded message.. either he is trying to hint to whoever he targeted last night or hinting to the persons that targeted him...
Meshuvel and bourbon - Meshuvel was roleblocked, is he hinting that he is escort/jailor?
mistaken hit on Xenagos? attack hint? Are they both scum and Xenagos is immune?
Not sure what the part to Sifa could be.. we are assuming he is amnesiac, hmmm...
I'm sure I'll find out who he is talking to soon enough when I see someone respond to this code without hinting that it is a code.

I commented on Meshuval here.

I haven't gotten much from Nicol Bolas. Would you like me to do an in-depth analysis of him, similar to what I've done with Ajani over there?

Oh plz do, I like to be alerted what people think of me. Allows me to know how to manipulate you.

Since this lynch will probably go through I just want to say that I'm glad that this whole ordeal gets us some very nice clues to further pursue things.
I have tried everything I know of but I know that I'm not as convincing as I should've been so I will end this with some these last words and I'll probably not pay attention to the game anymore.

Bai Bai

Waiving the white flag... trying to look like a jester? I wonder how other people will react to this... I doubt that there are 2 jesters and as far as I know, I'm the only one who knows its me.

I, myself, may have hit the bottle a bit too hard yesterday. Ugh, my head.

Let me get a good grasp of what's going on, the votes seemed to have been stacking on Glissa awfully quick considering how early we are in the day.

Coded response detected! Now what are they trying to tell each other? Need more input.

I really don't believe the witch claim so I'd rather not waste a lynch and the sheriff reveal is at L7 so,

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

for America

I would not be surprised if Nico Bolas was sasha; sasha would want to make it the case that the vermaak would be better off without an enforcer.

Oh no.. investigation role wifom targeting me, need to adjust that before day ends.

I don't think the votes stacking on are suspicious, so long as we don't get into hammer-danger range until there are maybe 12-18 hours left.

Uh.

Of course?

Would you prefer I just cast a vote for Glissa and leave the thread with no scrutiny placed on me? That's one of the most anti-town things you can do. Aggression is good, especially in short days when there's no pressure going out otherwise.

No one is going to raise their hand politely and inform us that they're scum - you need to pressure people with the fear of death, both their own, and their buddies.

Your pressure hasn't accomplished much yet..

You still think Ugin is scum?

Besides Glissa/Elspeth, who are your secondary candidates for scum?

Based on post analysis.

And for some reason my vote isn't on Glissa.

Hm.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

You lie.

Actually, he was correct.. Elspeth was not scum. lol

Sorry comma Ive seen this too many times period Even in FMs period
I dont trust this so called sheriff comma it wouldnt sursrise me if this was a executioner ploy or even a disguiser setup period

Can someone come up with a list of who has posted and who hasnt question mark Id do it but its too hard on my phone period

Time to mention possible disguiser. As well as give out a decent idea how to find lurkers but not be so helpful as in doing it myself.

Ugin comes back after having a meal to see.

He sees the following

There are currently 13 users browsing this thread. (10 members and 3 guests)
FM Ugin*

Ugin will catch up and see what is going on. Ugin is sad when he is here and everyone just does nothing.

And Ugin posts to say nothing himself.

She didn't raise her hand, but yeah, I admit that she's an outlier.

Tessebik, what are your current reads?

I'm asking this because I don't want the Day to go to "waste", metaphorically, with a lynch on Glissa.

I want information.

And what do you plan on doing with this information?

This is why I'm frustrated as to why the vig hasn't shot Glissa yet.

Dayvigging gives us instant information on both Glissa and Domri, as well as everyone else's reactions to Domri's reveal.

I mean.

Stalling out the vig is just going to waste time.

I hope it's not an afk player. (The vig didn't shoot N1, though, after Elspeth outed herself... hm.)

Heavy directing the vig.. BAD! Why aren't you following up on your Parcher lead now?

Dack's Plan
I do not care for Dack's plan at all.

Lynching Glissa:
-Potential to eleminate all cult (If he is the only cult and failed to convert last night) Highly unlikely and is of no consequence even if she didnt
-Potential to 99% confirm Domri Rade as Sheriff ONLY if Glissa flips cult.. if she doesn't, he could be anything so its certainly not 99%
-Our biggest scum lead

Lynching Elspeth
-Potential Jester
-Potential Town
-Potential Witch (I don't see the logic in a witch self claiming so this is doubtful in my book)
-Mafia may kill Glissa
-Mafia may not kill Glissa
-Potential for another conversion before killed at night


For those reasons I do not want to trust the kill to the mafia at all. It is just not worth it.

Glissa lynch:

I am 100% for lynching Glissa D2. There is the potential that this is the only cult and a conversion last night failed. This means there is a chance of killing the cult here and now. This 'Chance' is worth the risk of a bad lynch. With that said-
Lynching will end the day. We have 37 hours left in day 2 and Glissa is already at L7. I say the more active players unvote and allow the less active players place their votes to control the early hammer. This should be a real focus to give us time to gain leads and get reads from players.

Lynching will end day - no duh! .. What kinds of reads are you fishing for? cit reads to convert them? PR reads to kill them? We only need 1 scum read each day to lynch... tomorrow has plenty of time to do that.

My proposed course of action:
Have a Jailor jail Elspeth and lynch Glissa. This provides the potential for Elspeth to communicate with a confirmed town and that players judgement can determine if he lives or dies. (Note that we have a confirmed jailor with 2 executions and lynching will not affect his ability to jail)
We need to save the vigi kills. Regardless of if they pierce immunity or not that is a huge asset to the town. We can pick the kill in real time and see the flip which will give us more information right there on the spot. (Can you confirm that a day shot will result in an immediate role flip) If this is as I believe it is we do not want to waste this huge benefit.

Horrible plan - Kidnapper can easily get to her before jailor so she will not know who she is talking to... this could also be as a hint to a team mate to jail Elspeth... Tibalt is looking scummier each time he posts.

Sarkhan's Plan:


Pros:
-Makes confirmed towns with night chat
-Much better chance of smashing the cult
-There can be no evil agent so our priest is still safe (Assuming there is no Spree Killer)
ignoring the revolutionists again.... AGH

Cons:
-Makes great targets
-Potential for evil
ignores the possibility that there is no lookout and enforcer is laughing at us.

We should at least do this one time to allow any potential lookout to find who our priest is. Even if there is a spree killer he would be very foolish to try to kill our priest. A cult is just as much of a problem for him as it is for us. This would overall put us in a better position with very little risk.

Spree killer would prefer to be culted - then he still has the possibility to win if he dies. Killing priests and lookouts would be the best thing for him since it would also give him places to hide among the citizens.

Note
Why don't I like this:


Is it just me or is this really suspect. Sorins comment looks so strange to me. 'Ugh, my head.' I feel like this could very easily have been a pre-designed code. 'Say you are hungover if you X' Just something to keep in mind.

Well, he saw the potential code and now that he pointed it out, I'm not gonna get any further information about it. Great... sigh

What do you mean by "liking"? How come you "like" your attacker and defender?

Please expound on this.

I will do it if you stop talking like that for the rest of the game. I have to really force myself to read your gibberish right now.

easy town points up for grabs.. why wouldn't a scum do it?

Totally fine with unvoting as per Tibalt's request, and putting pressure as needed on people.

-vote unvote

-vote FM Ajani Goldmane

Dislike his Day 1 posts, as I mentioned.

Interesting, you obey Tibalt who is at the top of my scum radar right now .. Also, you chose to go back to pressuring Ajani with the weak day 1 spam case rather than going back to Parcher - I will have to assume that you did not check Parcher and got some sort of information... I will have to go reread all your posts with this new outlook..
Alarm bells start to ring about your aggressiveness on Parcher if you did not check him.

You have made a small case on him. If you take the time to build it into a constructed argument I will sheep your vote to pressure him. I want a read on how you think just as much as I want your read on him.

Hmm... buddying?

Ill do it myself later then comma I dont think I can pull off inflationary language yet comma maybe later period

I still want three annoy the masses and inflationary language is extremely hard three remember.

Ugin finds your response over defensive. Ugin is still unsure of you.





Ugin like your pressure on him. Ugin thinks that you might know something.



Ugin makes a half smile, he thinks its a good plan but sees problems.



Ugin thinks you should check roles, ugin checks it and says it ignores immunities.



Ugin looks at the plan and again sees a way that it can fail.



Ugin still has a strong dislike on you.



Ugin likes to see all possibilities. He thinks that this post does not help your case.



Ugin thinks you should read the discussion.



Ugin finds it odd how you have fos on me then sheeps vote.
Lynching you today is near impossible - so his vote not being on his fos is perfectly normal.


Ugin thinks you are very good player. He notices how you are taking town leader type role right now.



Ugin laughs at funny.

I was hoping others would realize this, but it seems that nobody has read through all the role cards.



We do NOT have to rely just on mafia killing the reaper suspect at night, we can rely on a priest to do that for us. If Glissa is purged at night -> flips reaper we all rejoice. If Glissa is not purged tonight, we know she is Sasha or Domri was lying (unlikely).

Escort on Glissa, priest on Glissa, lynch Elspeth today so the plan to purge Glissa isn't accidentally ruined.

You are very persistent about Elspeth - this could mean you are trying very hard to get town killer wifom to target her (jailor/vig) In either case, I'm gaining information with everyone who comments on your plans so I'll let you play this out.

Ugin refers to how you defended his fos. He likes your reasonings on many things. He dislikes how you buddy-defend him when he was not here.

Ugin giggles at the mistake. He comes over and tells you that it registers one at a time per post.

Ugin knows how the vote counter works.

This is still a worse plan that having a Jailor handle Elspeth and lynching Glissa. Why are you so set on seeing Elspeth lynched and not killed in some other way? I find this very odd.

Going with your new proposed plan means:
-Priest target is exposed
-No mason conversion
-Escort target is exposed (And we do not even know if we have an escort) much higher chance of having an escort than a lookout ... which people seem to ignore about the recruiting sarkhan plan
-Glissa could be Sasha and not be killed at all wasting a day

This is not logical at all. I have you pegged as a very intelligent player and your lines of logic trying to put Elspeth on a town lynch is setting off alarms for me. Can you justify why you are pushing so hard for this in spite of the fact better plans have been proposed?

I'm just gonna mark down that Tibalt is not using the information gained from reactions to Dacks plan

Hmm. How intriguing.
I guess I can sheep on Glissa, but that's putting her at L-5, so we should most likely slow down on the votes. It seems pretty clear that unless there's a massive turnaround, she'll be lynched today. Her defense is incredibly weak, she barely bothered, said bye and left. If anything it'll confirm Domri.

@Tibalt: I'll have to agree with your proposed course of action. Two vigilante shots isn't much, and I do believe that they should be saved as much as possible.



That's actually a really nice catch and I can't even be mad at you for pointing this out, I hadn't even thought about it when I posted it. It was our corporate Xmas party yesterday, but I should most definitely refrain from posting things like that in the future. At the same time, I'm pretty sure scum wouldn't be so obvious as to do such a thing that would definitely label all the people involved as teammates after a flip from one of them!

And @Ugin, I hadn't read the day yet, sorry for that.

I seriously don't think an executioner would be bold enough to pull the usual Sc2Mafia ''I'm Sheriff, he's scum'' on the first night. Plus, if it was faked, he wouldn't have picked Reaper over a Mafia faction, since there's an argument not to lynch Glissa but to purge her instead as mentioned above, although I think that's a pretty dumb idea. And as said above, Glissa's defense is a pile of shit.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

2 vig shots? Vig role card says 3 shots.. Are you hinting that you are vig and shot someone last night that did not die? Is this part of the coded message you gave off earlier? If you were vig, why would you alert the person you shot and was immune that you were the one shooting him? Wouldn't this be alerting scum who you were unless you hit the jailed/healed target? This does not compute with me....

Executioners win in sc2 the same way they win in FMs.. look at FM2 Crimson and MrSmarter. Executioners that wait usually fail due to night kills, so I donno why people think FM executioners play differently than sc2 executioners.

[Yayap]

posts 201-250

The Basileus has returned. Give me a minute to conjure up a post.

So apparently my post is ''awaiting moderator approval'' and still hasn't been posted.

Zzz.

I know the feeling.

This is your first post of the day... shouldn't you have something other to say other than to talk about post moderation?

mafia wouldn't necessarily want to kill cult right away right? "Let the cult break up the town some as well" it's not like cult can recruit once their leader is dead (assuming glissa is the cult leader). get rid of the cult threat asap.

The longer cult are in the game, the less you can trust "confirmed" PRs.

Dack: Yesterday he was seemingly intelligent, yet now that today has come around, I am 95% sure he is a Reaper/Vermaak.

The Pope -Sasha- wouldn't rush to the defense of Glissa. It might seem like he is trying to make a plan, yet from what I can tell he wants us to have the other enemies of Byzantium kill Glissa tonight so that she could possibly convert someone before she dies. Now then this might not seem like much considering the fact that that one would just die, yet it is a subtle method of getting a kill off, as if she were lynched and she has a member then its left with one Reaper because 1/2 of 1 rounded down is 0, yet if she got another conversion off tonight it would be 1/2 of 2 making one death. This might not seem like much, but it is a subtle way to perform a night kill, as it effectively kills one member of an opposing team and forces us to possibly have to waste tomorrow lynching her if the Mafia doesn't kill her, which they almost certainly wouldn't knowing that we would waste another day lynching her, and if the Vermaak have an Enforcer they have nothing to fear.

Also, lynching the Witch claim as he suggests is a bad idea. I would recommend a Vig shoot the Witch tonight or during the day as I would not want to lynch a possible Jester.

This is a very good point about extra kill that not even I had thought of, although I don't think Dack would be so obviously scummy if this was in fact his plan.. but at the same time, I do not have a clear read on Dack yet.

I also have to see the flip side of the coin that it is possible that Jace is trying to manipulate the other scums to hold off their votes if they can... I will need to keep an eye on Jace to decipher his intentions, it should be noted that he has voted for Glissa so him trying to slow the train seems less likely.

Hello ladies and gentlemen, I regret for missing out on yesterday's discussion. Well now that I'm here, I'd like to state that nothing happened to me last night

Also with Glissa on L-6, I'll restrain my vote until most people have posted. Though I do not support the plan of letting the conduit deal with the cult, it's always better to secure a kill on the scums
With Glissa claiming medic very early, I have little doubt that he is what he claims to be

Too late in the day / glissa train for me to get any read on Karn - save him for another day.

It seems as though, despite the fact that this setup is the same as FM V, the majority of players didn't go ahead and read it. That's okay, but I'll explain why I'd hoped you would:

(at) the Town: I'm sure at the moment it seems as though you have all the resources in the world, but I suspect you will come to see things differently very soon (as we did the first time around in FM V). The Beast is an extreme threat that basically required mass role-claim from everybody (including scum) to beat. This game will provide the Vigilante with no shortage of targets in the coming days and he has only 3 shots. 3 might seem like a lot, but if you were to use one on me, that leaves 2 shots to deal with 10+ scum.

You perceive me as a threat, but I am not.

~~~~

To other matters, where I will now pretend to be one of you and offer wisdoms.

The Sheriff claim did seem initially dubious, and given the history of Day 2 sheriff claims on this site there's every reason for us to doubt it. However, what was more suspicious was the way that Glissa Sunseeker defended herself. It was an immediate Medic claim before the votes even had a chance to come in. In an impromptu retrospective study of my memories, 90% of scum claim Citizen or Doctor (Medic).

Lynching Glissa would seem like the optimum pro-town move today.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

Seems to remember FMV as if she played it, omits the power of the witch in FM16 once the vig was revealed... which is the true threat. Knows that Glissa will most likely be lynched, only has to worry about the vig for tonight.

I am exceedingly suspicious of this post by Dack, and I wonder if he shares alignment with Glissa Sunseeker, for he seems to be in a head-on charge to divert the lynch away from her.

Ignores gambits..

I have already stated such.

At Elspeth Tirel colon Who did you target last night and who did you make him visit question mark

Time to weaken the witch claim since scum didn't get the hint that she is not the witch... hopefully scum will hit her tonight.

If you are a witch as you claim to be and have some desire to work with the town could you share the night action you submitted last night with us? This would go a long way for me to feel like you are worth keeping alive and not lobbying for a jailor execution as I currently plan to do.

Post times show that he did not read my previous post... but if he is a revo as I suspect, he would be frustrated that Elspeth is still alive too if he thinks she is a PR.

I took no action.

I see no reason to aggravate the Town by taking actions. If I was watched last night and that player eventually reveals his results, they will confirm my testimony.

Destroying this witch claim might be easier than I thought.. saying that she did nothing looks more like she doesn't want to tell us and thus more pressure is easy to apply.

Elspeth, why do you insist in acting so darkly? Your claimed role may not be a threat if you do not use its dark magic. The idea that you are hiding what you really are is the threat. You are hiding in the dark and that is something that no one of the light should do.

Oh if you help us break her, that would be great

I truly believe that Elspeth is a Court Jester -If you can't figure this one out...-. 75% sure.

As a role with the ability to control town's night actions you are a threat. Especially with the fact that you can win with anyone except the town.

Why are you so intent with finding the beast early compared to the other scums? Stating that beating the beast requires mass role claims

We are all hiding what we really are, for dark or light, my friend.

Think again. Revise. Ask again and maybe you will receive reply.

Hinting that you are not the witch? or saying you are not interested in the beast?

Why do you insist in this smoke and mirrors sham?

I highlight this post for everybody else to read, because I can't make a single bit of sense of it.

I have claimed Witch with the intention of siding with any scum, yet Karn is asking me why I am concentrating on the Beast (the one Scum who I can't win with) and not hunting other scums?

Karn is reciting words he thinks sound pro-town without asking himself why he's saying them.

More like he is ticked off that you mentioned the mass roleclaiming to find the beast when we know the beast is not the same as FMV.

Why are you pointing this out if you want to side with the dark?

-vote FM Ajani Goldmane

Whoops?



Hey.

Hey, Jace.

Answer me, please.

Huh? a quote to the question would have been nice..

Did you ask me something?

Yea... what Jace said.

I'm appeasing you with offerings of wisdom.

Fluff

There's no point in claiming a dangerous role whose objective's are to defeat the town, which currently holds the majority. Claiming witch is most likely a way to get lynched as jester, or to prevent people from learning that you are a more dangerous killing role

Its also a way to keep scum off you in early days since they think you can be mislynched.

Here ya' go.

Is your vote based solely on the sheriffs claim? because there are a ton of other reasons Glissa looks scummy right now.

Your actions are a mix of light and dark. I do not like this. Who is the darkest of those who live?

Does "darkest" refer to most obviously dark, or most scarily dark?

...

I cant trust you. This is your win condition:
"Destroy the Militia, You can win with any other faction"

Keeping you alive or killing you

Pro's:
-Wants to see the beast dead
-Potential for controlling a role with coordination from the town

Con's:
-Can not confirm you followed towns desires
-You need the town to die to win
-Potential jester ploy
-Self claimed non-town
-We may not have a lookout to confirm your actions at all (Even if we had one it would not be worth him revealing to prove you)


I do not see any logic at all in pushing for you to live. Point blank- I want you to be killed at night preferably by a Jailor.

You didn't seem worried about not having a lookout in post 189 when talking about Sarkhans plan

Your interpretation is just as valuable as your list.

Really, is this what you think? I don't believe you think I am a Jester. In your previous post you were telling me I am a threat because of my abilities as a Witch.

Natural scum response: when accused, accuse the accuser of being a Jester to destroy their credibility.

Natural town response: destroy all credibility of someone that looks scummy - offer multiple possibilities as to which role you to add incentive to kill at night if not lynched.

Glissa is now at L4.

I would ask players to unvote. This is too close to an early hammer for the amount of time we have left.

12 hours into the day - obvious lynch target.. Early hammer is not a bad thing. The only thing we are going to get more out of the day is wifom night targets.. Unless there is another hot topic that requires attention, holding the hammer till the last second is just a waste of real time. Reads can come forth the next day when pressure can be applied once again + a second round of night actions might clear some things up. Keeping scum in the dark is just as important as finding scum.

-vote unvote

The daylight is precious

FM Vraska drops his face to his desk.

That self-centered playstyle.

I mean.

Who claims a anti-town role (Whose wincon is to defeat town) then sides with town?!

Vig 'em, boil 'em, mash 'em in a stew.

Just stop coming in and being such a distraction, in terms of daychat.

I'm getting Mazzy vibes over here.

Don't know who Mazzy is... and am too lazy to look it up.

Because the Surgeon -Medic- claim sounded like even bigger bullshit.

sad that you had to be captain obvious for someone to understand that

I am strongly suspicious of Dack and Glissa. I don't necessarily buy the Sheriff claim, but even if I don't, I still think Glissa is scum. Dack's actions of trying to divert the lynch, suggest to me that Glissa is of high-value to Dack's alignment.

Therefore, my answer is: Glissa is the darkest appearing of those who live.

Or you don't see the gambit he is playing that has gained me more information on reactions than anything else this day.

I'm sorry if my posts are disturbing your thinking and giving your head an ouchies. If you like, I'll promise to put down my witch's wand and commit ritual suicide too to save you some bother.

Would that make you feel better, poor dearest?

bla bla bla, more fluff

What about the dark ones who are not in the light's eye?

Light can go to hell. I like the dark

Lol, this might help get investigative wifom off me.

Meshuval comes in, ignores my case against him and what Vraska has said against him, then does nothing but sheep the sheriff's guilty.

Scumlord 2013.

Ignoring you wasn't he best move, glad you reminded him.

Can people stop wasting time talking about Elspeth now? There are only two possibilities for her. Either:
1. She is not the witch
2. She is the witch

If she isn't witch, then she is probably town who is trolling or a jester. Because the only other roles in the same invest pairing as witch are executioner and student, and neither of those roles have anything to gain from claiming witch. And any scum claiming witch would be stupid because as soon as the other neutrals die and there is no more room for witch in the setup, we would immediately lynch her.

If she is witch then she is pulling a reverse psychology gambit. In this case we should get rid of her, but she is still not really our top priority, as we can easily shut her down with an escort while we search for other scum.

So either way, there's no point in worrying about her now. We'll just have our escort block her until a better target comes along.

First, let me rephrase his argument into a different role to show how it sounds:
"There are only two possibilities for her. Either:
1. She is not the Beast
2. She is the Beast"
I could replace "witch" with any role and the argument would be the same.. hehehe.

As for the purpose of the post, I think Ravi thinks or knows that Elspeth is town (most likely PR since cits shouldn't try to repel all the scum like that) and is trying to stop people from making her reveal.

Who is darkest among the living, Ravi?

Sure... lets tell scum who not to kill tonight.

-unvote

I shall place my vote later if needed. I fear an early hammer too much. I shall read new posts made since I was gone. Be patient my love.

I agree with this, which is why I'm frustrated about another Mazzy in the works.

Jace, thanks for answering.

[\unvote][unvote]
In case I didn't do this already

[unvote][\unvote]
In case I didn't do this already

So let me get this straight comma we have someone who claims a scum role comma does not leave feedback when doing night actions comma claims that she did nothing comma claims that nothing happened to her last night comma wasnt even roleblocked and you want to stop talking about it question mark Really question mark exclamation point question mark

Im not willing to let someone who can mess with our actions off the hook so fast comma I dont believe her for one second that she did nothing last night and Im not gonna stand by while others try to hide her under the rug period

-vote FM Elspeth Tirel

Well if Ravi and Vraska are going to slow the efforts of revealing Elspeth as a PR, I'm going to fuel it. Besides, it was too easy to post my argument.

-unvote

Sorry.

And why shouldn't we just leave her to a jail or or vig as others have said? No one is proposing to leave her alone indefinitely

Offers decent suggestion... except.........

So we can let the kidnapper possibly protect him and waste a vig shot on an immune witch question mark not to mention possibly waste our jailor if the kidnapper has already sent in the action before him period

This is more of a hint of specifying which scum should kill Elspeth wifom thing, since Orange have the kidnapper, they would know if they kidnap whereas Green would not. And because I mentioned the kidnapper thing, Vig shooting witch is less likely because talking/planning with a witch would benefit orange team.

Why is scum kidnapper going to target witch though? We've already gone through why scum don't want to target each other this early.

Well, I'm more in favor of scum coordinating so talking with the witch one night to setup a code or something to alert the witch what to do each night seems natural to me.

[Yayap]

posts 251-300

So we neutralize the witch and kidnapper if kid gets him first. Win win

Also potentially neutralizing our jailor and wasting an important shot by our vig... not win win.

We did?

Someone hasn't read the thread properly.

So that orange team and coordinate with witch into messing up town actions without overlapping plus if kidnapper saves witch from vig shot comma orange team gains benefits as well period

Just exposing flawed reasoning

Are you guys for real.

I'm not a witch.

Yay! Now mafia should target you tonight. Since healing roles have to deal with sheriff + players who are actually helping town.

It doesn't take an enlightened person to know that. Could you claim your role or why you claimed darkness. Saying you are not dark does not make it so.

.. [sarcasm]Why not get everyone to roleclaim day 2, that seems to be your day chat strategy. [/sarcasm]

Don't buy it.

You don't need to buy it.. since we have Glissa that we have to deal with first.

She is unlikely to be the darkness that she claims she is. I do not know whether she is of the dark or light. Because of the fiasco of claiming and causing the shadows of doubt, she ought to her best to enlighten us with her role and reasons.

No... she ought to ignore you.

I am a shittizen trying to draw attention from les scums. It might have worked except town is going full derp on me - meaning the scum don't have to worry about me, because town are all talking about shooting me dead.

Some history; the last person who claimed Day 1 as Witch was in FM XII and they were the Doctor. Scum left them alone because scum bought the witch claim. Town left them alone because they weren't a priority. This left the Doctor to heal his patients in peace.

I assumed there is at least one member of a mafia team who remembers FMXII and would perceive me as a Town PR trying to pull the same gambit. I'd hoped this would cause them to waste some effort on me.

Even if I had been the Witch, killing the Witch would have been a waste.

Yes, I claimed witch, but I never tried to act like one.

Sunseeker is scum. Her buddy Dack likely shares her alignment.

... claims cit... obvious lie, mafia should take her out even more now.

-unvote

Good enough to get my to take my vote off for now comma I still dont trust you but then again I dont trust anyone period

My work is done with Elspeth, its up to the mafia to deal with her now.

This is way I am quite suspect of Dack Fayden. Your ploy was quite obvious. But in the end, you are only drawing attention from town.... The mafias have no reason to target you after Day 1. That makes me believe that you were making a dangerous attempt to protect yourself.

So we have two things... attempting to send a message to mafias not to kill you, you even say you are on their side.
You don't think town will lynch you because claim witch seems like a pretty bad bluff(Like who would claim evil?)

I smell Beast

To exposed for Beast, but wouldn't surprise me if its a PR. As for Dack, I think he would have kept quiet and killed Elspeth at night if he was mafia / neutral killing.

Wow my copy/paste fro notepad didn't work quite well.

*This is way I am quite suspect of Dack Fayden. Falling for a simple witch claim and wanting to waste a lynch on a bad claim.

I the end however, I fear Elspeth the most right now. Your ploy was quite obvious. ~~~ ^^*

Explain why you went through with your gambit even though the jailor or vigilante could have wasted a shot while taking you out.

Do you really think I would be so obvious to defend my reaper buddy if I was a cultist?



If Elspeth is a citizen then FM Elspeth is a bad one. Town has no reason to pull stupid gambits that attempt to misuse town resources like vig shots or jail executions. I still don't see any citizen motivation behind the witch claim. It really makes me wonder why Elspeth wasn't shot by the vig yet. I'm hinting at a possibility here and I am hoping that scum will do us a favor and kill Elspeth for it, thus eliminating the need for us to lynch Elspeth.

Bad gambit from Elspeth - agreed .. now you are directing scum to attack her in an obvious manner...... meaning that they wouldn't. >.< oh well.

I agree with Elspeth's gambit. Fuck the haters.

Parcher likes gambits..

You know what, I like it so much I'll support it by doing my own

I was a Veteran now I am a Reaper, Glissa converted me last night

Obvious lie but will be interesting who tries to twist this post to their advantage.

Hmm, then why you chose to bust your cult leader? Don't care about yourself anymore, hmm?

Well that didn't take long..

nopie dopie

Hmm, I can only say one thing for now:

Good game, Glissa.

fluff

So lets get some of the facts straight:

Elspeth - claims witch
Meshuvel - Frozen N1
Mashrath - Frozen N1
Sandruu - Busdriven N1
Ugin - Busdriven N1
Domri Rade - claims Sheriff and checked Glissa Sunseeker as a reaper
Parcher - claims Vet, reapered by Glissa

Am I missign anything?

Post time indicate that he should have read the cit claim instead of witch. Its not concealed either... he also sees Parchers bad claim and uses it even though it was after the cit claim... obvious misleading.

No I claimed shittizen

I would've agreed with the gambit had it not been for the confirmed vigilante in the game (which I, admittedly, failed to realize was a confirmed role in the setup, but the point still stands).

Its a bad gambit no matter what roles are in the game.

@Dack

Nice big colors just so you cant claim you missed them in your attempt to dodge.

More not seeing Dacks plan and reading superficially or scum trying to expose things.

23 hours Until days end.

FM Glissa Sunseeker (11 [L-7]):
FM Meshuvel, FM Sifa Grent, FM Baltrice, FM Parcher, FM Jace Beleren, FM Ravi Sengir, FM Ral Zarek, FM Ugin, FM Garruk Wildspeaker, FM Sorin Markov, FM Elspeth Tirel

Where are the other votes? I know there are some on Elspeth and a few others on people that are being "pressured". Incomplete list.. grrr.

Why would you even want to gambit like this AS A CITIZEN?! Claiming witch REPEL attention from the scum, and now claiming citizen will also REPEL the scum. The only thing you did was you almost made vigilante waste a shot and brought so much FoS to you attention. I am sorry but I don't buy this.



Gamethrow much? There is a chance that Glissa isnt even a reaper at all. What would you do by then?

Because Glissa is at L-7, and less than 22 hours left, it is time to place my vote back again.

Agree about Elspeth gambit - WHY CAN'T PEOPLE SEE THE OBVIOUS "THIS IS A LIE" in Parchers post? ARGH!!!

-vote Fm GlISsA SuNsEeKeR

All these gambits. Who can you trust? Who will you let close to you?

The Lord is a complex being. He decides how everything plays out. He giveth, but he also taketh. Be wary.. and afraid.

ignore spam from scum

Sense chat is so dead and all. Could you give some reads on other players? If you are as you say you are this could be your only opportunity to contribute to the town. I would think you would take advantage of these hours and give everything you can to help our cause.

-.- Tibalt either doesn't see that she is OBVIOUS scum or is scum and is trying to suggest something to make himself appear useful. option 2 with my gut feeling on him seems more likely.

It appears that you have not read an earlier post by me in which I stated enough for you to know.

Besides, preventing my death was not a possible task after many people have deemed me to be untrustworthy on analysis-basis alone, no matter my true alignment.

At least you see your mistake..

This is why we are believing the sheriff instead of you.

But I don't believe the sheriff... I just don't believe Glissa is town either. Executioners aren't limited to town only. This could be a push to get Domri more trusted than he deserves if Glissa is no cult.

And that is why I have already long since given up on desperately preventing my lynch. It was doomed from the start, ever since the Sheriff revealed.

No... you just made it doomed when you started to talk. You should have tried to destroy his credibility instead of defending yourself with a poor claim.

So be it.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

Still want Meshuval to answer my criticisms or to do something.

Meshuval has been a bit quiet... but that could be his schedule.

Why don't you help town then if you are town? What another edwin

Because she obviously isn't town... don't need a sheriff to tell us that.

The only code here is that of debauchery.
FM Venser cracks open another bottle bourbon

Advantage to no Lynch Day 2:
Jailor on claimed witch->citizen suspect and judgement. Lookout can confirm jailor.
Purge Cult if it exists. Lookout can confirm confirm.

Disadvantages to no Lynch Day 2:
Kidnapper(s) - if there's more than ONE this is bad.
Scum has potential to discover TWO town roles in one night (Jailor and Lookout/Priest and Lookout)
Neut Killer is unknown. MM could wipe out several town roles in one night. (Jailor and Lookout/Priest and Lookout)

I'm keeping my -vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

It's the option that minimizes both risk and exposure of town to scum.

What the? This guy did not read the setup at all or is heavily misleading town.. I have no clue what he means about the lookout confirming anything. Jailors jail on lynch days so why is he leading this No Lynch idea? Multiple kidnappers is impossible... what do you mean scum discovering town roles? HUH?
I honestly have no clue how to interpret this post... + this code of debauchery that could very well be a real code. GRRR...

Enough for me to know? This is not about saving your life. It is about doing all you can to further your claimed win condition. Its about giving what you can before it is too late. You point blank said 'I am going to take information to my grave'


Now at L5
19.5 hours until days end.

You are fishing for information from the wrong person.. its obvious that she is scum. Now you are trying to look like you are scumhunting while being completely useless.

Lynches don't affect the jailor's ability to jail.

Ravi reads role cards.

That's obviously what I want to do because, if you still haven't read my post and realized what I said: I ain't no medic. Dunno if I really had to spell that out to you. I want to take information to my grave. Not sure if there would be any scum role which would want to publicly give out information for everyone to see.

But man, this is going to be fun.

Apparently you need to spell that out for people.

First I do not agree that my post was bad. It is important place meaning behind actions, it is important to determine scums capabilities. Also, I didn't speculate at all on anyone being culted in that post.

Second, you seem to be suffering from fundamental attribution error where you . By your post, it sounds like you believe I sat here lurking for an hour after posting before I decided to FOS and vote. Possibly because you were projecting your own situation onto me. Saturdays are generally a very busy day for me and I did my best to keep up with posts on my phone and post when I could.

As for your own posts, your 9 total posts this game have been:

1. A poor FOS on me
2. A pointless warning about an early hammer
3. Doubting a scummy medic claim
4. Stating you voted without reading the vast majority of posts
5. Explaining your pointless early hammer warning
6. Trying to push your poor FOS on me
7. Misreading a previous post on why the kidnapper might target the witch
8. Deriding someone's lack of information without informing them
9. Sheeping and then again pushing your poor FOS on me

"error where you . By your"
I've seen too many codes use punctuation like this to ignore it. I suspect that you were jailed n1 and are sending coded message to him. Claiming roleblocked could also mean that you were jailed.

FYI rules state there can be a maximum of 1 kidnapper.

Speaking of which, do you think the single jailed person should reveal today or wait till tomorrow incase the jailor did decide to go with the code plan and he does want to risk dying before revealing it.

Wanting towns opinion if he should reveal?

Better not to reveal, I'd say. This way the kidnapper can't claim jailor during the day because if he does he would have to guess who was jailed last night, and if he's wrong, he's dead. So from now on anyone who claims jailor has a way to immediately prove/disprove their claim.

D2 Notes

Name	Posts	Notes	Claimed Feedback
Ajani Goldmane	0	-	No
Ashoik	0	-	No
Baltrice	20	-	No
Chandar Nalaar	5	-	No
Dack Fayden	13	-	No
Domri Rade	31	-	Yes
Elspeth Tirel	16	-	No
Garruk Wildspeaker	3	-	Yes
Gideon Jura	Dead	Swiched Sandruu with Ugin	-
Glissa Sunseeker	19	Probable Cultist (Claimed Doc)	Yes
Jace Beleren	7	-	Yes
Jaya Ballard	0	-	No
Karn	3	-	Yes
Kiora Atua	0	-	No
Koth	0	-	No
Lilana Vess	9	-	Yes
Masrath	1	Claimed Role Blocked	Yes
Meshuvel	6	Claimed role blocked	Yes
Nicol Bolas	12	-	No
Nissa Revane	6	-	Yes
Parcher	Ral Zarek	7	Yes
Ravi Sengir	11	-	Yes
Sandruu	9	Claimed Bus Driven	Yes
Sarkhan Vol	3	D1 cit claim	Yes
Sifa Grent	10	-	No
Sorin Markov	3	-	No
Tamiyo	Dead	Cleaned by Janitor	-
Teferi	0	-	No
Tessebik	5	-	No
Tezzeret	11	-	No
Ugin	7	Claimed Bus Driven	Yes
Veser	23	-	Yes
Vesser	23	-	Yes
Vraska	35	-	Yes
Xenagos	0	-	No

Hey look, you posted a table and I'm still spelling out punctuation.. hehehe, interesting results non the less. Interesting to see that you didn't list Domri's sheriff claim but did list Sarkhans cit claim. Domri on your team?

Nice table, but it's slightly off. Ral zerek somehow ended up in Parcher's row. Still quite useful though.

I will mess with it later. For now I would ask the rest of the players to claim nothing happened to you that night each day

I'm guessing what you mean is if nothing happened, you want us to say nothing happened to us... well I don't plan on following that plan.

Mmm, I like that idea of yours. Free your mind of idle thought, I should say.

Huh? fluff and useless.

Ugin wakes up and wanders over, he doesn't look like he is feeling to well. He comes over and tries to catch up, even though he does not feel too well.

Hello, up to page 6 so far, putting my vote on Glissa to bring her closer to lynch.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

Page 6 at 50 posts per page? If so... why didn't you read the final page before placing your vote. It's not like you were short on time.

Glissa is at L4, I will unvote until we get closer to the end of the day

-vote unvote

Ugin would like to know why you were gone yesterday. Ugin would like to hear what you think about day 1.



Ugin finds this odd.



Ugin agrees with this even though you claim to be scummy role.



Ugin knows better ways to get lynched as jester then claiming witch on no-lynch day.



Ugin thinks that is the default defense. He thinks the other one is the OGMUS defense.



Ugin would like you to elaborate on that. Ugin see you are good player and should know something like this. Ugin would like for you to elaborate why you think its mazzy vibe.





Ugin thinks this could be true.



Ugin says you can trust no one but yourself.



Ugin thinks that people are stupid for not reading setup or are faking stupid.

Another empty post.. with personal thoughts that don't really contribute to the game....... I also think people are stupid for not reading setup but that tells me nothing about them.

Ugin greets you and would like to know if you were part of day 1. He thinks you were not and would like for you to elaborate on that.

Post 228 of day 1... Ugin did not bother to check this fact before posting.

Apologies, you were speculating on what might happen if someone is culted, which is irrelevant unless it actually happens. If cult recruits scum then cult knows who scum is whoa thanks for the insight there. It's just pointless fluff which just makes it look like you're contributing when you're not.

And no, it's not important to determine scum capabilities because if we discuss that we're too busying speculating on the setup compared to actually scumhunting people.



That is not the point of what I said at all. I don't think you lurked for an hour I think you left before making a vote and came back, realised you hadn't voted and forced a vote out. (The reason for voting Ugin was for making a suggestion which was a bad idea? Town can do that too) Because you didn't vote in your first post, it's obvious that voting and scumhunting takes second priority to setupspeccing in your mind.



How did I misread at all?

Also, I'm not going to waste my time repeating what is already said in the thread.

Watching 2 analytical players fight it out is much more entertaining than the people asking for reads. (gets popcorn) Also Liliana does have an interesting point about a persons priorities when it comes to setup speculation vs scumhunting. Although I wonder if Liliana has read day 1 now..

[Yayap]

posts 301-350

Also what do you mean by "claimed feedback" for I recall claiming no such thing?

His post was a bit confusing, this question might clear it up.

Did something happen to you in the dark of night?

She took the time to specify that she hadn't claimed feedback.. why even bother asking this question.

I've posted Ral Zerek times, actually

I have returned.

Hello.

How do you see Elspeth? Is she of the dark or of the light?

I really hope this sites scumhunting skills get better in the next few FMs, asking the same generic question over and over is bond to yield the same result with most people... and the ones that do have a different opinion don't want to tell the scums that she is a PR.

Dark.
It is illogical for town to gambit witch.

More than 50% of players on this site don't post logical things.. so looking for logic in stupidity doesn't seem to work too well.

How should the light handle her?

You are asking him to direct PRs...

So. A Citizen decides its a good idea to claim Witch to get the scum to stay away from her, even though she is a Citizen. A Citizen I would think would want to have the scum target them, while a PR would do the Witch claim to stay alive, all a Citizen does is drag PRs to themselves to see if they really are a Witch. I do not like this character.

I doubt she is scum however, as she would likely would have been checked and a scum wouldn't want to be checked.

Ding ding ding ding ding!! Jace reads Elspeth the same way I do.

Same question. How should the light handle her?

Elspeth was self-proclaimed non-town. I wanted to put pressure on her with the threat of lynch since everybody else just wanted to ignore her. In any case, her retraction of the witch claim and current citizen claim as well as people's reactions to the whole ordeal has proved to be quite enlightening for me. Although I still have questions, I find myself with more information than before.

Since it looks like we will lynch Glissa today, do you still think Elspeth should be jailed/shot at night? Do you buy Elspeth's gambit?

Tadaa! And I have gained almost just as much information while letting you run this gambit.

Possibly a kill later. I'm not entirely sure. She might be a Jester, she might be a Citizen.

Translation = ignore her for now until we gain more information on future days.
Correct! There is no need to unravel a bad gambit and reveal a PR. Giving her time will show her true alignment.

I think we can hold off a day on miss witch. Maybe we'll geta higher priority target tomorrow.

Though someone did day she was the beast.

And now everyone backpedals on the "vig shoot her asap plan".

Elspeth should be subject to the light of investigation at night. She is clearly not a citizen. I will not check her because my checks will not illuminate what needs to be known.

Directing framers?

Are there thoughts, concerns, or issues with this plan? Is it a plan of the light or of the dark?

Besides obvious framer bait, needing to reveal the investigator to get the info, info may not be accurate, immune roles...

I do not approve of this plan: I think she's either a citizen as she says, Cole McGrath, or the Soul of the Beast, and they all appear in the same investigation pairing.

Thank you for pointing out obvious flaws.

You could just kill her. Anyone who makes a gambit to claim scum and then retracts it to claim citizen has to be full of shit

Shoot first, ask questions later? Thats a scums answer to every problem.

I find myself having trouble telling the difference between poor playing and scummy playing sometimes. With this said lets take a look at his intentions behind his actions. As that this is what we need to figure out in order to best handle the situation.

Possible reasons for claiming witch:
1. Avoid being killed at night from non-town.
2. Getting attention in day chat
3. Hide in plain site for giggles when you win as witch
4. Trolling for lolz

1. Is his defense. Its the only bit of sense that could be used to say 'This was an intentional and logical decision'.
What I take away from this is how people lie. People generally mix truth with their lies to make them more believable. This is because when you tell a lie you ask yourself 'Can this make sense, Is this something believable'. People have to rationalize the lie to themselves to something they would believe while putting themselves in another players shoes. Unfortunately they still have information on themselves that they can unintentionally take into account. It takes a very deliberate thought process to exclude this information. With that said:
A- I find it very notable that this player chose to say 'This was a logical move' as opposed to going with 'I was just trolling guyz, chill brah'. For this reason I trust that this was in no way trolling and was a very planned move. The direction he defended himself in suggests both planning and backtracking.
B- After dropping the witch guise this player was questioned on his logic. He did not defend his logic. He did not clarify his thought process. He stayed vague. I believe this relates to confidence. A town player would be confident. 'Go ahead and do whatever you want. I am town and you will realize it one way or another'. The lack of this confidence was manifested in his indirect manner of defense. This suggests that either he is not putting much thought at all into his moves (More specifically, claiming witch) or he did not anticipate the reaction from the town and is flustered. He is unable to regain control of the position he has put himself in and has claimed a role that can not really be verified.
C- I am a bit put off by his lack of desperation. This would speak for his claim of being town or at least showing a bit of apathy in what happens to him. This makes me question both the potential for him being a TPR floating as a witch to stay alive as well as a highly valued role like 'The soul of the beast'. Maybe he has an ace up his sleeve that he is holding on to that can change his situation.

2. Extremely doubtful. I would say that this was not at all what he wanted to happen from how he has handled the situation. Here and there he has made a move or two but they have been illogical and appeared to be hip shot actions.

3. For reasons from 1- No. 100% not the case.

4. Same as 3

With all that said, as previously stated I am a big fan of a jailor handling this player at night. If he has some ace up his sleeve he can reveal it to the jailor. If he dosn't he can be executed and if he flips cit the blame is on him for pulling such a foolish gambit. My belief is that he will either flip Jester or some variation of scum.

Just to throw it out there I think any player in the game that wanted to avoid being attacked by revealing some role would go and claim survivor.


Back to Dack
My question to you was 'Why did you lobby so hard to have this player lynched as opposed to killed at night'. Your arguments did not seem logical and I have a feeling that it was intentionally so. I find it odd that you answered the way that you did and would ask again for a more direct answer.

​Confidence, foresight, meta knowledge, as well as gambit development are all linked to a players skill level. Although it can lead to role information, most of the time its more of a tell of who the player is. An experienced player can pull off can pull off stupidities with confidence knowing that he can easily defend himself with x argument.

As for your analysis, you limited your possibilities to #1, which would desired by every player, not just scum.

L5, 15 hours until days end.


I made another error in the post above.

5. He was being truthful

I wont go into detail about this because I do not care about it. But there it is.

Then we have fifteen hours more to discuss.

Who else do you believe to be scum?

Aren't we all scums? We are red and all.

Have you posted anything of use so far that isn't trolling or a sheep vote?

Please be serious.

-vote FM Glissa Sunseeker

The light of conversation dims. If there is more to be said, let it be said. I have said what I wish to say today.

I simply wanted to provide a counter train so I could have analysis on who sticks on Glissa, and who can be persuaded to jump to Elspeth. What about my arguments were not logical? Please point out these things because I do think there is a good argument for lynching Elspeth. These are some reasons why I started the Elspeth train and lobbied hard for it:

1. Scum has no incentive to kill a witch claimer whereas there is slightly more incentive for them to kill a reaper that they cannot win with.

2. Town has no need to make such a blatantly anti-town lie. Townspeople should be truthful and cooperative in order to solve the puzzle of FM.

3. Depending on the jailor/vigilante to kill Elspeth supposes that the jailor/vigilante are not afk and will cooperate. I would have expected the confirmed vigilante to shoot at Elspeth last night, and I'm not sure why that didn't happen.
3.a. The priest could easily take care of a reaper suspect
3.b. The jailor/vigilante have limited kills

4. So I'm supposing that if the vigilante was not afk, he might have tried to shoot Elspeth last night. I was pressuring Elspeth to try to see if this might be the case (i.e. if anyone[vigilante] would support my Elspeth lynch). I don't believe that Nicol Bolas is a vigilante who tried to shoot a night immune Elspeth, so I'm pretty sure we can rule out the scenario that Elspeth was shot last night but was night immune.

And thus the gambit is explained in more detail.

I think that given Glissa's admittance of being scum, the sheriff results on her, and the state of the vote count, I am completely fine casting my vote for Glissa. However I do believe that my counter train was well thought out both in terms of if Elspeth was lynched instead of Glissa and in terms of generating information.

Any further questions?

I would hope that people won't hammer at least for another 8 hours or so because in my opinion there is still much discussion to be had.

Where?



Like what?

I'm guessing Chandra is skimming the day chat and not looking too much into it, he does seem like a simple minded person who doesn't read between the lines, he didn't seem to see the directions I gave him to find the confirmed vigilante.

As for the second question, I agree.

We are bird buddies btw

'raises eyebrow'

If you don't mind, I'd like to spit some bars before I have to leave this world.

Fuck a beat I go accapella
Fuck a papa doc, fuck a clock, fuck a trailer, fuck everybody
Fuck y'all if you doubt me
I'm a piece of fuckin white trash I say it proudly
Fuck this battle I don't wanna win, I'm outtie
Here -- tell these people something they dont know about me

scum spam ignored

Are you saying you are scum buddies with him?

.. People like to jump to that conclusion whenever they see the smallest connections.. People need to stop jumping to bad conclusions and analyze further.

wat.

No. Look at out pics.

Perhaps that last post was a subtle code you are giving him?

If you think this, directly questioning him about it before you get more evidence will prevent any further connections from being seen.

Oh yes, I like this train of thought.

One must think of every possibility...

Here:


Let me spell out the events of the day pertaining to Glissa for y'all:
1. Domri claims sheriff with Glissa as a Reaper.
2. Glissa claims doctor with something around 5 votes on her.
3. Votes pile on Glissa
4. Tibalt tells Glissa if she's actually town she should be posting reads for us once she flips town.
5. Glissa says she is not a medic and wants to take information to her grave, like all scum (see quote).


1. People's thoughts on the day's events.
2. I'm not caught up on notes, and after notes I might have more questions for people or things to post to make sure people didn't miss them (apparently like Glissa's admission of being scum).
3. I want Tibalt to respond to my post.
4. Give jailor time to jail. Maybe he comes on near the end of day and needs time to react to the impending lynch target.



Casual buddying noted.

Ok bird buddy, can you give me a list of your three scummiest people (excluding Elspeth and Glissa) and why.

Good summary of the Glissa train. Decent reasons to hold the lynch, especially the jailor part. Ty for saying "casual" buddying... because that is what it is.

I think FM Ajani Goldmane is scum because he's worried about the soul of the beast more than scum. I think Baltrice i sscum because he talks to much. And I think FM Garruk Wildspeaker is scum because he keeps saying neutral things and nobody questions him.

I can think of a few more but I still think Chandra is skimming day chat and hasn't noticed Tibalt. I certainly like the fact that she pointed out that no one is questioning Garruk. Agree on Baltrice. And Ajani hasn't posted enough day 2 for me to get any read on her.

How subtle is HEY WE ARE BIRD BUDDIES. Do you think we are mafia together and I wanted to remind him we'll get to talk tonight?

Exposing flawed thinking.

What the fuck?

Just what the fuck?

Jace is annoyed/confused/angry at Chandras reads. Chandras reads are good... why is Jace angry?

It's subtle because it doesn't stand out too much.

/ignored

It could be something like a consig code. Even though that would be a bad role to pick considering its power, yet from what I can tell I wouldn't be surprised if you chose it.

Wouldn't count on it.

I didn't get to pick me role. Did you?

I did.

Nope.

But how can I know you aren't lying? You seem to not really be contributing.

We can't know... we can just observe and try to perceive.

Can you explain this? Chandra is giving three scummy players names and why and you attempt to belittle her list without anything substantial.

I think he scoffed at her list because of the reasons she gave.

Her reasons were decent, you just don't like them because she implicated you.

The reasons as to why he thinks they are. Talking too much makes you scum. Yes that is perfectly logical. Just because someone doesn't get questioned by others doesn't make them scum. Also, although other scum are very dangerous, the Beast could possibly be something that could kill the game for the town.

Scum do like to talk lots in early game, to try to establish their pro-town stance. Although Baltrice is more guilty of his other failings, I think Chandra might have picked up on a few.

Not being questioned by others can mean that a team is trying to throw it under the radar and not show any attention to it. Garruk has been scummy and no one has even said a word about it until Chandra.... now you are trying to cover for Garruk? I will have to re-think my stance on you.

given recent developments, what are your reads on Chandra and Jace?

Greetings everyone. I am very sorry for my inactivity, as it is more representative of the difficulty with finding Internet access (as I am traveling in another country) than my desire in posting.

I have no feedback to report.

I will also reread the day's posts and give my own opinions, as best as is possible via smartphone.

One thing I would like to preemptively say is that scum teams typically have at least 1 player jockeying for the mantle of town leader. With 2 simultaneous scum teams, I find it high likely that at least a few of the town leaders that seem experienced may in fact be swaying the overall views of the town. This is directed more at less experienced players, so be wary of subtle derails etc.

I understand the phone part, its not easy playing FMs from a phone, nice to see you post anyways.\

So you seem to be posting to support Chandra's theory that scum talk to much.

To the witch claim, I believe two things:

Early claims revealed without external pressure/reasoning are always measured efforts. I do not believe the witch claim was true, but it was definitely measured, and I agree strongly with tibalt 's reasoning and conclusions. Townpoints to him!
Secondly, if we can conclude anything, it is that the true role is not of a witch. I'm not too sure I believe the city claim. I don't see it as a useful fake claim as mafia either (leaving neutrals or town pr as possibilities...note witch pairing fits with other neutrals!)

I do not believe in strictly directing town prs, especially this early in the game. Jailer should target whoever they deem the best choice for captor, but this is nonetheless 1 viable choice.

Townpoints to Tibalt? RAWR!!!

I 100% Support this line of thought. I believe it to be very likely that the more skilled players would be given scum roles. (Refer to every FM ever)

Don't make me go looking to prove this wrong! Most hosts do use random.org to give out roles...... there are a few exceptions but this is a flawed line of reasoning.

I do think domri was successfully appearing townish up to his report reveal (at least to me), and I think the glissa lynch will reveal the most information to us today. Additionally her defense began scummy (as another player mentioned, the easiest scum role claims are citizen and doctor) and devolved into scum giving up or trolling. Thus, I ask those with powers of good to support our champion in domri (unless the lynch reveals clearly otherwise). I once more repeat that i do not believe in strictly directing town pr actions, and thus I once again ask them to use their own best judgement (ex: WIFOM)

-vote FM glissa sunseeker

I trust an early hammer will not fall. Anyone else who has not commented on this situation, if you add your vote to this train please provide your reasoning (even if you think it is obvious).

If Domri hadn't revealed, I'm sure I could have mounted a convincing case as to why he is scummy. His daychat interrogation skills aren't the best either, why are you heavily pushing that we all follow Domri who will most likely be useless after today?

[Yayap]

another error has occurred ... this time by simply clicking wysiwyg option off right before doing mass copy in case of error (so I could copy the bbcodes). and another post of analysis has been lost to the void...

Too lazy to do it again today.

[Yayap]

posts 401-450

[Yayap]

posts 451-493 (end of day 2)

[Poriomania]

I'll see if I can comment on these soon.

Overall, I the epiphany/realization I got from reading these is that SC2Mafia is /very/ different from the way I play/my home site which places a lot of emphasis on analysis and catching scum on behavior.

[Gerik]

I'll see if I can comment on these soon.

Overall, I the epiphany/realization I got from reading these is that SC2Mafia is /very/ different from the way I play/my home site which places a lot of emphasis on analysis and catching scum on behavior.

For us, it really depends on the game. FM XX had a lot of power roles, so there was just as much (if not more) emphasis on night actions as there was on scum hunting during the day.

I think FM 16 was a really good example of a game in which scum hunting during the day was the main focus of the game. About 80% of the town were citizens. You should read that one if you've got the time. Even with the low PR count, town only had one mislynch the whole game, caused by yours truly (with a little help from AppleyNO).

[ika]

I'll see if I can comment on these soon.

Overall, I the epiphany/realization I got from reading these is that SC2Mafia is /very/ different from the way I play/my home site which places a lot of emphasis on analysis and catching scum on behavior.

i think this is the problem that we players also seem to have and you face. You focus too much on the analitical side of things, while others focus more on pr and site meta and specs. when you have a game full of citizens (like fm16 that gerick mentioned), then yes you are much more vaild on it. when you have it like fm 20 where its 80% pr, analitacl skills only help in finding conncetions for a bit. what it would end up boiling down to is the game of the prs and the night actions. i say you need to understand the setup you are facing and the role you are and what you are against.

here in fm 20 we had a bunch of prs, so it was bound to be more "follow pr" game then "look at this scummy post" game

if it were to be fm 16, it would be vice versa most liekly (however it did end up being follow pr for a bit)

[Damus_Graves]

I don't really like that the current meta is being degraded that much. Mafia is a game of personalities and such and with a diverse player base those personalities are gonna change. With that change comes a new kind of meta. You play based on the people you have around you and the meta that you are handed for the game.

[ika]

I don't really like that the current meta is being degraded that much. Mafia is a game of personalities and such and with a diverse player base those personalities are gonna change. With that change comes a new kind of meta. You play based on the people you have around you and the meta that you are handed for the game.

Mafia is a game of decpetion, not personality. Our player base is not entirely that diverse either, we have a very small player base that are set on what is the sites meta, if a player wants to improve they have to change which i agree on. However they must also learn to disregard site meta at times. A person personality may change but it does not change their playstlye. A persons playstlye=/=a person personality. A person playstle is how they play and are 2 very diffrent concepts. Meta is established by the games you play and can be changed if you try, if you stay the same or say "this is right and that is wrong" like you are kinda doing right now without solid reasonign, you are merly grasping staws.

I have played a few off-site games and found that there are many more playstlyes out there and much better players. I mean hack look at the old s-fm that titus did "matrix" varsoon came here to play one game and day 2, he had you pegged scum. Look at fm 20, the slip you made was instamental.

no 2 games are ever the same, even if you have same players, same roles, same exact everything for 2 games, things will be diffrent. meta is made by the host setup, the role you are, alignment, town vs mafia, is there cult/neutral, how much is kpn, mechanics. Those are things that dictate meta in the logn run, not a players personality.

for a player to evolve and become better, they must be willing to accept first their flaws and learn from their mistakes, only then can a player improve

[ika]

posts 151-200 .. an error has occured and my 4 hours of analysis was lost to the void...

I think I hit the character limit since the error was

"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters."


I blame Ugin for his massive walls of text :P



I'll do this page again later when I feel like it

Ugin whistles innocently...

I would just snip the posts and/or refer to the number for mine I did that a lot

[Poriomania]

If you're using Chrome, download Lazarus.

[Poriomania]

Eh, I'll comment on some Yayap stuff.

The major realization I got from reading his stuff is that (being an off-site player), the tools I use off-site mostly don't apply to SC2Mafia. They use different skills that I have not developed and are mostly useless in my homesite meta.

Take this with a grain of salt; it's bound to mostly be mostly my personal opinion on stuff.

--

Spoiler : Rebuttal/commentary :

Telling us that you don't know a lot of us hints that you could be a new player on the big scene, I deliberately avoided answering your questions since I didn't want to hint about my role or COM on day 1.

I understand hiding your role and hiding your alignment, but I don't understand why hiding your COM is so important. I mean, I use anonymous games to try out different playstyles that won't work with my identity (or to just get away with things because my meta allows me to get away with it).

hint: never a good idea to try and direct PRs openly.. especially the Vig. Much better to insert ideas in their heads without them noticing it. Think of the movie inception.

I actually don't mind directing power roles one bit. Group decisions tend to be better than individual decisions as a general rule, no matter your experience or intelligence.

It's day 1... with "no" lynch. Doing anything only serves to gain information about the setup or reveal something about your own role. Power roles should not be exposing themselves on day 1 by hinting that they know something that we dont.

On the rare occasion, some newbie might slip and expose himself as a scum but I always prefer to think that people are smarter than that.

As soon as you get your role card, you can begin and start scumhunting. I have caught numerous players or began scumreading them due to their first post. (which began rather innocuously; I can show you examples)

Scum players often have trouble masking themselves during the beginning stages of the game and coming out of the beginning stages of the game, which is when my gut is most effective.

You are jumping the gun again, you needed to wait till mid day 2 before throwing this up. Both town and scum should wait before starting real arguments.. dont do it on a no lynch day when 75% of posts are trolling and you can't tell the town from scum trolling.

I was mostly making that post to Make Things Happen. Again, once role cards are sent out, you can begin scumhunting, and when nothing is happening, as town, you want to make people do things so that you can get a better read on them.

If I see an action that both town and scum can do easily, and you can't distinguish between them, I'm going to make them talk about things that can make me more easily distinguish between them (causal and mindset analysis).

Day 2 --

My stuff with Parcher was mostly me trying to hardcore tunnel on someone to make them react. If he imploded at my early pressure, I can set up a case to lynch him, or if he responds with gusto, I can switch off to easier targets. (You'll notice that I stopped tunneling on him once he provided content)

Supports Domri directing vig/jailor. "hypothetical vig" meaning he either did not read the obvious extremist on the role list or is just trying to make others that didnt' read the role list think so .. I'm leaning more towards he didn't see it... and that Vraska is not the Vig. Mention of the jester is a possibility.... except that I know that I'm a jester and I don't think that there are 2 jesters. As for hating the playstyle - you are gonna hate me.

Yeah, this is mostly role-read stuff. ("It's quite annoying, and in open setup games I tend to favor going for town rolereads over everything else which are obviously hard to explain to the class.")

1- day 1 posts are trolly by most people.. not just scum
2- talking in 3rd person is more of a COM thing rather that scum thing
other than that... there is nothing really to analyze on day 1 in Ajanis posts... nothing really stands out which is what has got me puzzeled about Domris interest in her.

More just a lack of content. (you guys say that fluffposting is null, I find it scummy; I was jumping on low-hanging fruit here)

Well, I know why Meshuvel is going after Ugin, and I'm guessing Vraska does not since he is pre-occupied trying to get a lynch going on Parcher.

More like defending players who actually play the game (I assigned light town reads to analyzers and scum reads to people who are just drifting along)

Just because someone thinks that something is worth pursuing doesn't mean that they have to jump onto a train and run after only that one lead.. patience can lead to more information. And in this case, the case against Ajani is weak ... its just because there isn't any other obvious scum lead that makes that one worth looking into.

Listing out who you think is scum and not voting is scummy. (I can go more in-depth)

Mounting an argument on Glissa right now was near impossible with only day 1 troll posts.

I could literally case anyone in the game based on low/no-content posts. (I'm sure it won't work for you, given that you don't think active lurking/contentless posting/trolling as scummy due to your experience, but a fair amount of people do once you show them why)

Since when does day vig give instant results? It was always at the end of the day in Elixirs previous FMs and nothing has shown that something has changed .. so I'll assume you didn't play or read FM5.
Also... directing the Vig to waste his day shot is a terrible idea and is scummy.

Why is directing the vig's daykill scummy, again? You can use it as a second lynch!

(and in all the other sites I've played in dayvigs give instant results, so that was just me going off experience)

Good grief... what is with this town trying to direct the vig to do everything.

See: above.

Well with 1 sheriff claim already out and Glissa marching off to the gallows, setting up vig targets would seem like the next best choice for a Pr that has info. But the way you ask for information is just pure meta based.. Asking them directly doesn't yield the best results... and especially Parcher who is strong willed, if he doesn't want to answer, he won't.

*repeats spiel about getting town to talk about stuff that allows me to get better reads on them*

I'd say its more of a COM tell than a town tell, it just happens that the people who are doing it are town. But they are also the ones I consider to be analyzers.

I did this a whole lot on Azuriae's S-FM and was wagonned for it repeatedly, heh. (Going to take the Devil's Advocate route and go for the vig shot instead of the sheriff shot, guys!)

Ok, now you are fishing for too many.. you might reveal his gambit/role if you continue this discussion. Although if Dack answers, it will shed light on what he is up to.

Why is asking players for their reads fishing on their role?

Your pressure hasn't accomplished much yet..

Would do better if a sheriff didn't reveal. (also, there's like 34 players, heh)

And what do you plan on doing with this information?

*repeats spiel about getting town to talk about stuff that allows me to get better reads on them*

Actually, I asked Tessebik for his reads to force him to participate/interact with scumbuddies. Most scum on this site die if you look at absence of interactions w/other scum.

Heavy directing the vig.. BAD! Why aren't you following up on your Parcher lead now?

Uh, because I *think* he produced content around this point, and I'm not an investigative role?

[ika]

Eh, I'll comment on some Yayap stuff.

The major realization I got from reading his stuff is that (being an off-site player), the tools I use off-site mostly don't apply to SC2Mafia. They use different skills that I have not developed and are mostly useless in my homesite meta.

Take this with a grain of salt; it's bound to mostly be mostly my personal opinion on stuff.

--

Spoiler : Rebuttal/commentary :

I understand hiding your role and hiding your alignment, but I don't understand why hiding your COM is so important. I mean, I use anonymous games to try out different playstyles that won't work with my identity (or to just get away with things because my meta allows me to get away with it).

many players go "this persons meta is scum" this is why annons exist, after so long if you dont change meta or dont try to you learn that you are vanuable to the tacitic itself

I actually don't mind directing power roles one bit. Group decisions tend to be better than individual decisions as a general rule, no matter your experience or intelligence.

many players find that scums are inclinced to dictate prs, espicaly if they try to dictate them towards other players its sometimes considered that you are scum trying to keep town away from you (and in this case was kinda true for you)

As soon as you get your role card, you can begin and start scumhunting. I have caught numerous players or began scumreading them due to their first post. (which began rather innocuously; I can show you examples)

i would like to see them, i dont doubt it but examples are good ways to demonstrate it

Scum players often have trouble masking themselves during the beginning stages of the game and coming out of the beginning stages of the game, which is when my gut is most effective.



I was mostly making that post to Make Things Happen. Again, once role cards are sent out, you can begin scumhunting, and when nothing is happening, as town, you want to make people do things so that you can get a better read on them.

this is more of a site meta flaw, no possible lynch=why post or be serious it seems like, however some players do try to make substance. I do understand the usaged of no-lynch days on some cases and others i do not

If I see an action that both town and scum can do easily, and you can't distinguish between them, I'm going to make them talk about things that can make me more easily distinguish between them (causal and mindset analysis).

that i would consider vaild, problem is getting them to do it. they can 100% ignore it and give you nothing

Day 2 --

My stuff with Parcher was mostly me trying to hardcore tunnel on someone to make them react. If he imploded at my early pressure, I can set up a case to lynch him, or if he responds with gusto, I can switch off to easier targets. (You'll notice that I stopped tunneling on him once he provided content)



Yeah, this is mostly role-read stuff. ("It's quite annoying, and in open setup games I tend to favor going for town rolereads over everything else which are obviously hard to explain to the class.")

can you elaborate on this im slightly confused what you mean by this

More just a lack of content. (you guys say that fluffposting is null, I find it scummy; I was jumping on low-hanging fruit here)

that was my goal tbh, make huge wall of post of nothing that looks like something, i knew analitical players would know it was fluff but many players would gloss over it or say "hes contributing"

however fluff posting can sometime have hidden contnents, in this case mine was more just fluff. but there are times where a "fluff" post can have a hidden meaning

More like defending players who actually play the game (I assigned light town reads to analyzers and scum reads to people who are just drifting along)

another flaw of the site meta, this place is full of drifters

Listing out who you think is scum and not voting is scummy. (I can go more in-depth)

please do. i do know where it can look scummy but there are times where it is undeeded as well

example: fos, mutiable scum reads, no-lynch, not priority target

I could literally case anyone in the game based on low/no-content posts. (I'm sure it won't work for you, given that you don't think active lurking/contentless posting/trolling as scummy due to your experience, but a fair amount of people do once you show them why)

yayap has the bigger point here, you could have an entire lurkfest game and doing it on any of them would be almost the same, i think its more situational

Why is directing the vig's daykill scummy, again? You can use it as a second lynch!

(and in all the other sites I've played in dayvigs give instant results, so that was just me going off experience)

again directing prs is scum tactic due to them doing it and having them out of the spotlight

if we had dayvig like that i could see it mroe town inclined

See: above.



*repeats spiel about getting town to talk about stuff that allows me to get better reads on them*

here is where it holds more grounds becasue you have the power of vote and threaten lynch

I did this a whole lot on Azuriae's S-FM and was wagonned for it repeatedly, heh. (Going to take the Devil's Advocate route and go for the vig shot instead of the sheriff shot, guys!)



Why is asking players for their reads fishing on their role?

reads can sometimes give out their roles, it depends on how its phrased. you didnt give out reads so it looks scummy that you are asking so you could just maybe sheep a persons reads. although vice versa can be said.

i would like a little more clarity on the reads=role fishing

Would do better if a sheriff didn't reveal. (also, there's like 34 players, heh)

i think hes saying your pressure was more of a thing that served no purpose because by that point it was already a "sheep the sheriff" mode. if we had no sheriff reveal or did it early on when he revealed maybe then you could get momentum

*repeats spiel about getting town to talk about stuff that allows me to get better reads on them*

here is where it holds more grounds becasue you have the power of vote and threaten lynch

Actually, I asked Tessebik for his reads to force him to participate/interact with scumbuddies. Most scum on this site die if you look at absence of interactions w/other scum.


as a scum its not a good idea to do that imo, it can easily backfire. its more viable as town i would say.

Uh, because I *think* he produced content around this point, and I'm not an investigative role?

yes however it was not known you were an investigative (technacly a rber could be investigative is used like that)

answaer my thoughts on it in the poisler

[AppleyNO]

Perhaps it speaks to the level that I'm on more than anything else, but I don't pay attention to site meta... like at all. If I roll town(I haven't in a while besides Ika's game), then I'll question things that I personally find weird, different, or extraordinary. Its not the hardest thing it the world to see someone leading day chat. I just ask myself why that player is doing that and what does he know that I don't.

Usually when I play scum, people don't ask these questions. That's why my scum play is better than my town play.