A Citizen and Jester Show

[louiswill]

Role list:

Town side(alignment):
Routine Patrol
Routine Patrol
Vigilante
Routine Bus driver
Power Uped Citizen
Power Uped Citizen
Power Uped Citizen
Power Uped Citizen

Mafia side(alignment)
Power Uped Mafioso

Triad side(alignment)
Power Uped Triad 49er

Nutty side(alignment)
Power Uped Jester
Power Uped Jester
Power Uped Jester



Role Card:

Routine Patrol : A Routine Patrol submits routine actions of 4 types in any order uniquely result for 4 nights in a row. The 4 types are: Current night action, Current Alignment, Current night visitor, Current number of same type roles. A routine patrol can not change its action in during the 4 nights. A routine Patrol wins a night after all mafia and triad eliminated. Please submit the actions BEFORE the incoming night.

Vigilante: A Vigilante needs one night to reload the gun, starting with 0 bullet. Max 1 bullet, unlimited reloading. Vigilante will die in duel against mafioso. Win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.

Routine Bus driver: Routine busdriver submits routine actions of 4 swap at night. Routine busdriver can not change its action during the 4 nights. Routine Bus driver will be stabbed to death if the busdriver caused a self-targeted of a 49er. Win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.

Power Uped Citizen: For once, you can pick and use any night ability from any role appeared in graveyard. The citizen may use the ability once the next night. win 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 tie against jester(if all other roles do not exist). Win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.

Power Uped Jester: All jester will know one piece of information by host choice each night feedback. If one jester is on bus, all other jesters will be notified. Once a mafioso or a 49er died and appear in graveyard, a Jester can request to be one replacement on the mafia/triad side. However, only one mafia/triad can exist at any time. A jester lynch will cause one member of majority faction die. Win if abstainers of that jester's lynch lose the game.

Power Uped Mafioso: A Mafioso is skilled in gun fire and following. At any night, A mafioso can choose one between the two actions. If A mafioso choose to use its gun, then mafioso kills its target. If A Mafioso chooses following a target, a mafioso will get to know night visiting of the target. If it was a "routine" role, then a mafioso will learn all routine targets of the 4 nights. If it was a citizen and else, the mafioso will learn if target took an action or not. A Mafioso wins as last faction alive

Power Uped Triad 49er: A 49er is skilled in stab and information stealing. At any night, a 49er can choose one between the two actions. If a 49er choose to use its knife, then the 49er stab its target to death. If a 49er chooses to stealing information, then the 49er will take away target's night result for itself. If it was a "routine" role, then the 49er will stealing its night result(notify target). If it was a citizen and else, a 49er will learn if target took an action or not. A 49er wins as last faction alive.

Win Condition:
Town : Win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.
Mafia/Triad: win as last faction alive
Jester: Win if lynched and abstainers all lose


OoO:
Power uped Citizen pick
Power uped jester request replacement
Routine Bus
Vigilante Killing
Power uped mafioso/triad Killing
Routine Patroll
Mafioso/triad Following/Information stealing
Jester caused suicide
All modkills and other possble death
Feedback

Mechanic:
Votes for lynch will be changing to 51% of Active players.
24 hours day
Day may be extended in case of critical afk
24 hours night
Night ends early if both triad and mafioso submitted their action
Host will be against majority faction in most controllable judgement, such as jester shared information.
"Clue" type graveyard for scum roles.

Rules of Conduct:
Everything normal
except Mafia and triad can freely pm anyone, but mafia and triad must notify me that who they have pmed.

5 posts per day phrase to avoid host judgement
Dont quote my words except the setup, because my grammar is bad.
No Spam.

Win Condition:
See the end of role card.

Q&A:

Need Win Conditions

At the end of each role card.

[powerofdeath]

Need Win Conditions
Also I can easily say X whispered me, he must be mafioso! Lynch X!

[louiswill]

Need Win Conditions
Also I can easily say X whispered me, he must be mafioso! Lynch X!

It is fundamentally a useful jester type accusation because of no evidence but the admin of forum may know the truths.

Thus,
Yep you can do that, but if X get modkilled will be decided by me.

I will judge against majority, so if X is town, I will likely let you guys waste a day phrase to lynch X rather than clear his name for you.


Also, why would a real mafia/triad whisper you if they are the only one in the setup ?

[ika]

It is fundamentally a useful jester type accusation because of no evidence but the admin of forum may know the truths.

Thus,
Yep you can do that, but if X get modkilled will be decided by me.

I will judge against majority, so if X is town, I will likely let you guys waste a day phrase to lynch X rather than clear his name for you.


Also, why would a real mafia/triad whisper you if they are the only one in the setup ?

the problem i see with it is that anyone can accuse (which is fine) it or actually do it and get away with it. plus any accuasttions from a non-mafia role saying they did it would be on empty grounds. all you have to go with is an assumption that they did not.

i suggest have pms go through you or allow a univeral allowance otherwise you can only take someones word for it.

pms going though you could be much more intresting becasue it would allow wifoms and that it must have a signature.

this is rather intresting and will prob look into it later

also: plz add in a win condition where it is clearly stated. its annoying to glance at the end of every rolecard to find the win-con

[louiswill]

In that case, I will simply request mafia/triad give me a report on their pm target but not the context then.

[ika]

In that case, I will simply request mafia/triad give me a report on their pm target but not the context then.

you are missing the point, anyone can say it and anyone can deny sending it. unless if it goes through you all you have is the word of the player....

and any player can make something up that it was sent from another player

[louiswill]

you are missing the point, anyone can say it and anyone can deny sending it. unless if it goes through you all you have is the word of the player....

and any player can make something up that it was sent from another player

The voters are the ones that choose to trust the stories or not.

I think this ambiguity is part of the game.

with the mafia/triad sending me their pm target,

I can just release the information after game, so that everyone knows if any in game accusation is true or not.

If anyone intend to cover their target even after game, it doesn't really matter anyway because game has ended.

However, I suppose the people who release secret after fooling everyone will get the most fun.

If one only fools others but no one knows how they were fooled, it is not a completed plot.

[louiswill]

Updated Jester win condition, will queue after my sfm finished.

[powerofdeath]

In a 3way lylo, 2 people voted for the jester. The jester goal is to see the abstainer lose, how will that work?

[louiswill]

In a 3way lylo, 2 people voted for the jester. The jester goal is to see the abstainer lose, how will that work?

If no one abstain then jester wins too, aka:

"See all abstainer lose"
Existing abstainer x = 0
necessary total abstainer lose y = 0
so condition satisfied because x = y = 0
And jester will win if lynched as such.

Sorry this shit is hard to describe.

[Cryptonic]

I'm gonna let you know this now so you can do your editting: I'm not going to allow any SFMs where players of the same alignment have different win conditions. Each faction should have one win condition, except neutrals. Otherwise, you're deviating away from Mafia far too much.

I'll make an official post about this later.

[louiswill]

I'm gonna let you know this now so you can do your editting: I'm not going to allow any SFMs where players of the same alignment have different win conditions. Each faction should have one win condition, except neutrals. Otherwise, you're deviating away from Mafia far too much.

I'll make an official post about this later.

Win Condition:
Town : Win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.
Mafia/Triad: win as last faction alive
Jester: Win if lynched and abstainers all lose

So the win conditions are all lined up.

[Cryptonic]

That looks a lot better, yes.
I fear for your Jesters, though. What if Mafia, Triad, and 1 member of town abstains? Does that Jester lose? What if Jester B abstains on a Jester A? Does Jester A only win if Jester B doesn't get lynched or gets lynched and has his abstainers lose? Seems like it's open to a lot of complex situations that makes winning as Jester a lot harder than other factions. They can't even control their fate, it's all up to chance once they're dead. Sure, they can plan their lynch and leave themselves in a position that gives them a better chance of winning, but it's still just chance. They can't use their words to obtain their victory, which is the whole point of Mafia.

[louiswill]

That looks a lot better, yes.
I fear for your Jesters, though. What if Mafia, Triad, and 1 member of town abstains? Does that Jester lose? What if Jester B abstains on a Jester A? Does Jester A only win if Jester B doesn't get lynched or gets lynched and has his abstainers lose? Seems like it's open to a lot of complex situations that makes winning as Jester a lot harder than other factions. They can't even control their fate, it's all up to chance once they're dead. Sure, they can plan their lynch and leave themselves in a position that gives them a better chance of winning, but it's still just chance. They can't use their words to obtain their victory, which is the whole point of Mafia.

The jester must well plan their lynch, as you said.
So, where do they use the words?

Let me explain:

Assume a jester would want to ensure their victory by well plan their lynch.

1. Information
To any jester, in any normal Sc2mafia game,
It might be easy to be lynched, say, you are hated by everyone, and you are lynched.

But in this setup, it is not easy to plan a lynch.

To plan anything in general, information is necessary.
For jester to shoot for a victory, they need information.
That is where their words are into play.

Though dangerous, jester would want to fish information by words, because town might simply shut up and mafia/triad lurk all day long. That left jester to push lynches and find lead because they have the burden to plan their lynch and make sure abstainers are the ones at down wind.


2. Eliminate the uncertainty

Roll a dice might give a victory 6, but roll a dice gives more chance to lose, if all other 5 sides are carved with 'lose'

The jester face tremendous uncertainty if lynched early, especially when other jesters will probably not vote.
Therefore, intuitively, either the jester wants to be a dice roller or survive long enough.

Especially live till a situation where there are 3lylo, but that would be really really hard to plan.

So lynch is like a train, and jester wants to balance their risk and their chance to win.

That is also where their words come to play.
The citizen are enough for jester to wifom anything they want to,
Jester wants to control the lynch switch,
They have to rely on their words.



That two parts should be enough to explain where the words come to play, as traditional as any other mafia:
What are the leads?
What happened last night?
Who is scum?
What are faked?
Who is what?
Who must die?
How to persuade others?

And jester must be extremely on that, get enough scum read yet push others into lynch if he see the day doesn't fit.
Though random odds help too, but "Yolo, I'm winning" is not going to happen.

[Cryptonic]

You can't eliminate the uncertainty, though.
Every faction/role in Mafia relies on at least one member of their faction using their words to achieve victory for themselves/their team. I think it's pretty unfair that Jester has to get lynched (which is a lot harder in FM than SC2Mafia), and then they might not even win anyways lol. Think about the last game you played when you were Jester; you didn't even get lynched. If you did, town would've 110% been amongst those who abstained, meaning you would've lost even if you managed to convince the game to lynch you. And Jester wasn't even confirmed in that game, increasing likelihood of being lynched.

I'm not going to prevent you from doing it this way, I'm just letting you know that these Jesters are getting the shit end of the stick.

[louiswill]

You can't eliminate the uncertainty, though.
Every faction/role in Mafia relies on at least one member of their faction using their words to achieve victory for themselves/their team. I think it's pretty unfair that Jester has to get lynched (which is a lot harder in FM than SC2Mafia), and then they might not even win anyways lol. Think about the last game you played when you were Jester; you didn't even get lynched. If you did, town would've 110% been amongst those who abstained, meaning you would've lost even if you managed to convince the game to lynch you. And Jester wasn't even confirmed in that game, increasing likelihood of being lynched.

I'm not going to prevent you from doing it this way, I'm just letting you know that these Jesters are getting the shit end of the stick.

I didn't get lynched but I would have been if Creed didn't give up.

Pod wifom jailor, but he shouldn't jail me who wifomed jailor for him. Why would any mafia jailor jail a scum read person when there is a doctor claim and a fake veteran claim, plus 2 investigative claims? That is just not cool.

Creed wifomed town master and I claimed fake coroner to counter him, he was not checked by neither RLVG nor Damus and he could have used Citrus' true last will to push a lynch on me. But, No, he just forfeit. In fact he should get modkilled.

Or I could have shut up about the busdriving because I suppose to die that day not Pod if I didn't confirm anything, Damus and RLVG wants me dead, plus Pod that are three people, but Creed choose to not lynch me and so I push him down instead.

It isn't really that hard to get a scum read but I really want to entertain people when I'm in game. I argued last game would have been easy for mafia : Two jail Two kill, Slaol is not veteran, orpz admitted to be doctor DAY TWO, but pod instead jail me when hypersniper is replaced.

I have thought about counter claim Bahkieh, but that would makes me too obvious as jester, so I just do what I should, and by pointing finger on correct mafia, the town might be paranoid enough to lynch me. Slaol doesn't want to lead town, so I still might get couple vote. (Poor RLVg.)

Still, I think it is really fair to jester, for the freedom they had. Jester is not bound to any faction and can pretending, role fishing, action fishing, accusing as much as they want to.

Last SFM jester victory was Noctiz, who didn't do anything but was lynched by mafias.---doesn't really entertain at all.

[Nick]

Are you actually planning to host this as a real S-FM? If yes, please remove all host influences in the game. Hosts should be impartial.

Whats stopping non-mafia/triad from PMing and replying?

Explain possible actions for Routine Patrol.

[Nick]

Hmm.. so Jesters are anti-town Amnesiacs waiting to replace scum. Basically survive to replace scum. If all three chose to replace the same role, who will get it?

[louiswill]

Are you actually planning to host this as a real S-FM? If yes, please remove all host influences in the game. Hosts should be impartial.

Whats stopping non-mafia/triad from PMing and replying?

Explain possible actions for Routine Patrol.

Host has final word. My final word is mandatory influence.

Nothing stops cheating other than Honor system and neighbours watching.

Routine patrol night actions is in the role card.

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

[louiswill]

Hmm.. so Jesters are anti-town Amnesiacs waiting to replace scum. Basically survive to replace scum. If all three chose to replace the same role, who will get it?

Whoever might be lynched soon will be chosen, according to my judgment.

Propaganda: I randomly choose.

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

[Nick]

Then you need to elaborate what each routine actions are for.

If you want to bring in host favoutism into the game then I hope you don't get to host any.

What propaganda? Don't give vague answers. I advise random.org than manual but random pick by host.

[Nick]

Citizen using scum or neutral ability AND night actions?

[louiswill]

Then you need to elaborate what each routine actions are for.

Routine Patrol : A Routine Patrol submits routine actions of 4 types in any order uniquely result for 4 nights in a row. The 4 types are: Current night action, Current Alignment, Current night visitor, Current number of same type roles. A routine patrol can not change its action in during the 4 nights. A routine Patrol wins a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.

Explain:

Player (Routine Patrol) submit a list of 4 actions along with 4 target, such as:
1. ika - Current Alignment
2. Pod - Current number of same type roles
3. TLL - Current night visitor
4. Slaol - Current night action

Then as host, I will proceed of OoO such as:
night one the player visits ika, and I will give feedback of ika's current alignment,
night two the player visits pod, and I will give feedback of pod's Current number of same type roles
night three the player visits TLL, and I will give feedback of TLL's Current night visitor,
night one the player visits slaol, and I will give feedback of slaol's Current night action,

What propaganda? Don't give vague answers. I advise random.org than manual but random pick by host.

I will mandate a choice with human intelligence if you can decode how I make my choice and able to ultimately choose a strategy to break the game.

You are awesome.

Officially I will tell you I made a random choice. So, Good Luck on that.

Welcome to try.

Citizen using scum or neutral ability AND night actions?

Yes.

I forget to write it in setup, scums will not appear in graveyard with a clear role.

It will be like:

Louiswill - Citizen
Slaol - Vigilante
Nick - ???

[Nick]

Night ends early if both triad and mafioso submitted their action

Don't forget the Citizens with 1-use actions. And Vigilante.

[Nick]

Power Uped Citizen: For once, you can pick and use any night ability from any role appeared in graveyard. The citizen may use the ability once the next night. Instantly win 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 tie against jester(if all other roles do not exist). Win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.

Is contradictory. So which has precedence? Do you mean:

Instantly win 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 tie against jester(if all other roles do not exist). OTHERWISE, win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.

[Nick]

A jester lynch will cause one member of majority faction die.

Draw situation, what happens? What if a jester was lynched by the remaining two towns and the other two jesters? Or one mafia and one town remaining, lynched a jester?

If town is still going to die, please write it as "will cause one member of town to die" to avoid ambiguity.

[Nick]

All modkills and other possble death

What other possible deaths? Do you mean kills from Citizens copying Vig/Maf/Tri night actions?

[Nick]

If no one abstain then jester wins too, aka:

"See all abstainer lose"
Existing abstainer x = 0
necessary total abstainer lose y = 0
so condition satisfied because x = y = 0
And jester will win if lynched as such.

Sorry this shit is hard to describe.

Explanation contradicts your setup.

normal 51% vote lynch, lynch stops the day

[louiswill]

Is contradictory. So which has precedence?

A night after all mafia and triad eliminated. = Only Jester and Citizens remains.
Citizen wins tie against jester.

The End.

What other possible deaths? Do you mean kills from Citizens copying Vig/Maf/Tri night actions?

No. Citizen using Vigilante ability will retain the vigilante ability's priority in OoO.

I really meant things such as suicide, or .... anything else accidentally not considered.

You name it.

Draw situation, what happens? What if a jester was lynched by the remaining two towns and the other two jesters? Or one mafia and one town remaining, lynched a jester?

If town is still going to die, please write it as "will cause one member of town to die" to avoid ambiguity.

Explanation contradicts your setup.

2 jester 1 citizen 1 mafia alive
4 players 51%, round up = 3 votes to lynch
and they choose to lynch a jester.
Lynch stops the day, a jester is lynched.
1 citizen 1 mafia 1 jester remain.

Then I can choose the mafia or the citizen or the jester to suicide because they are all majority faction with the highest member number: 1.

The lynched jester wins because everyone else voted him, the logic is in the quote of your corresponding post.


What draw situation were you thinking?

Mafia, traid can kill, citizens win tie against jester. That's it.

[Nick]

A night after all mafia and triad eliminated. = Only Jester and Citizens remains.
Citizen wins tie against jester.

The End.

Although you said win a night after Mafia/Triad eliminated, Jester can always become Mafia/Triad during the extra night.
So Citizens only town do not need to wait for another night for game end? If not it's not instant win vs jesters.

2 jester 1 citizen 1 mafia alive
4 players 51%, round up = 3 votes to lynch
and they choose to lynch a jester.
Lynch stops the day, a jester is lynched.
1 citizen 1 mafia 1 jester remain.

Then I can choose the mafia or the citizen or the jester to suicide because they are all majority faction with the highest member number: 1.

The lynched jester wins because everyone else voted him, the logic is in the quote of your corresponding post.

Then how do you choose the target of jester grief in case of multiple majority factions? Random?

Oh, no contradiction sorry misunderstood statement.

[louiswill]

So Citizens only town do not need to wait for another night for game end? If not it's not instant win vs jesters.

'Instant' after the last night, if no one wants to become mafia/triad.

It is a tricky option for jester players.

For citizen, it is just like "Oh shit I don't have a vest, what shouldda I do?"

Don't be the last citizen, be active and lead the town out of the mess.

If confusing, then I will delete the word.

Then how do you choose the target of jester grief in case of multiple majority factions? Random?
Oh, no contradiction sorry misunderstood statement.

In any case that I suppose to make a host choice,
I choose however I see fit, roll dices, generate from random/org or whatever.

I might intentionally get rid of inactive players and robots if I get the chance
Totally Unfair.

So basically, don't give me the chance to do that.

Be active and friendly, don't be a moron quoting my pm or stuff like that.

Wait... what is jester grief again?

[Cryptonic]

If 1 person from all 3 factions abstain on jester's lynch, does that mean the Jester loses?

"Clue" type graveyard for scum roles.

Does this mean only scum roles appear as ??? in graveyard?
Can Citizen use ???'s roles from the graveyard?
Who wins ties?
Mafia/Triad has to kill Jesters in order to win?

[louiswill]

If 1 person from all 3 factions abstain on jester's lynch, does that mean the Jester loses?
Exactly, Yes. so again, lynch lurkers or whoever doesn't cast vote regularly.
Does this mean only scum roles appear as ??? in graveyard?
Yes. See test run.
Can Citizen use ???'s roles from the graveyard?
Yes, They can, but Jester has no manual ability.
The citizen will not be told whether they had what ability in any case they choose a ??? role.
Who wins ties?
Scum can kill. (If Mafia Vs Triad killing each other, then the winner will be elected by voters after game.)
Jester can't win alive.
Citizen win ties against jester.
Also Town : Win a night after all mafia and triad eliminated.
Mafia/Triad has to kill Jesters in order to win?
Yes. Just do it. They hate retarded people.

[Cryptonic]

OK, Approved, then